Kentucky Clerk Denies Marriage License to Gay Couple

[Sombeech]

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/09/02/us/jpkentucky/jpkentucky-master675.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6yOfVw8cbA

MOREHEAD, Ky. — Defying the Supreme Court and saying she was acting “under God’s authority,” a county clerk in Kentucky denied marriage licenses to gay couples on Tuesday, less than a day after the court rejected her request for a delay.


A raucous scene unfolded shortly after 8 a.m. at the Rowan County Courthouse here as two same-sex couples walked into the county clerk’s office, followed by a throng of journalists and chanting protesters on both sides of the issue. One couple, David Ermold and David Moore, tried to engage the county clerk, Kim Davis, in a debate before the cameras, but as she had before, she turned them away, saying repeatedly that she would not issue licenses to any couples, gay or straight.


“Under whose authority?” Mr. Ermold asked.


“Under God’s authority,” Ms. Davis replied.


Ms. Davis says same-sex marriage violates her Christian beliefs. She took office in January, succeeding her mother, who had been the county clerk for 37 years.


Her case stands as the most conspicuous official resistance remaining to the Supreme Court’s landmark ruling in June legalizing same-sex marriage, and it is one of a number of legal challenges centering on the obligations of public officials and private businesses who say same-sex marriage conflicts with their religious faith.

Some other local officials still refuse to issue marriage licenses, including probate judges in 11 Alabama counties. But most such challenges have faded, as officials who previously refused licenses to same-sex couples have reversed course.


Ms. Davis has been cheered by religious conservatives from around the country, though legal experts say she has almost no chance of prevailing. On Tuesday, lawyers for same-sex couples asked Judge David L. Bunning of Federal District Court to hold her in contempt and fine her, and a hearing on that motion was set for Thursday in District Court in Ashland. The lawyers did not ask for jail time, which the judge could also impose.


Ms. Davis said in a statement released by her lawyers that she had received death threats, but that she would neither resign nor relent.


“To issue a marriage license which conflicts with God’s definition of marriage, with my name affixed to the certificate, would violate my conscience,” she said. She added: “I have no animosity toward anyone and harbor no ill will. To me this has never been a gay or lesbian issue. It is about marriage and God’s word.”


Her defiance presented the state and courts with a conundrum, since she is an elected official and not easily removed. The State Legislature, where each party controls one chamber, could impeach her, but that is considered unlikely in this conservative state.


Officials have said it might be possible to charge her with official misconduct, a misdemeanor; a conviction could result in a court order removing her. The county attorney has declined to take up the question, referring it to the state’s attorney general, Jack Conway, a Democrat who is running for governor. His office has said it is looking into the matter.


Ms. Davis stopped issuing all marriage licenses after the Supreme Court’s 5-to-4 ruling in June, in the case Obergefell v. Hodges.


On Monday, a stay granted by Judge Bunning expired, and the Supreme Court rejected without comment Ms. Davis’s emergency application for a new stay pending the outcome of her appeal. That left her no legal grounds to refuse to grant licenses to same-sex couples.


“There’s no doubt about how this saga comes to an end,” said Ronald J. Krotoszynski Jr., a constitutional law expert at the University of Alabama who has followed same-sex marriage cases. “The couples in Rowan County who seek marriage licenses will have them.”


Tuesday’s courthouse showdown threw a rare spotlight on this rural patch of eastern Kentucky, much of it contained within the Daniel Boone National Forest. The county has fewer than 24,000 residents; Morehead, the largest city, has fewer than 7,000.


Continue reading the main story


What’s Next for Kentucky Clerk Who Refuses to Issue Licenses for Gay Marriage
Ms. Davis at first remained in her office with the blinds drawn. A deputy clerk told the first couple through the door, April Miller and Karen Roberts, making their third attempt to get a license, that none would be issued Tuesday.


“We were hopeful that we would get a license this morning, but we also understood that she has taken a pretty strong stand, so it was not a surprise,” Ms. Miller said.


“Every time we go in there and we’re denied a license, it’s rejection, it’s marginalization,” she said. “We feel ostracized. We feel defeated. But we know that this is a liberty that we have been granted, and we’re going to keep fighting for that civil right.”


When Mr. Moore and Mr. Ermold were turned down, they shouted for Ms. Davis to come out and face them, and she emerged and talked with them briefly before returning to her office. Citing the latest Supreme Court action, Mr. Moore said he would remain in the office until he and Mr. Ermold had a license.


“Then you’re going to have a long day,” Ms. Davis replied. She said she had refused to issue any licenses in order not to discriminate against a particular group.


Ms. Davis has some allies among other clerks, including Casey Davis of Casey County, southwest of Lexington. Mr. Davis said Tuesday that he had “not tried to prevent” same-sex marriages but was only acting on his First Amendment rights.


“There was a lot of people that died for that right, and I think we should be able to exercise it,” Mr. Davis told CNN. He said same-sex couples could seek marriage licenses elsewhere in the state. In addition to those in Rowan and Casey Counties, the governor said, another of the state’s 120 clerks is not issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples.


But Ms. Miller said it was important to force Ms. Davis to comply with the court rulings, rather than simply go elsewhere for a license. “It would set a dangerous precedent to let it go,” she said.


In a statement, Governor Beshear said, “The future of the Rowan County clerk is now in the hands of the courts,” adding that he had no legal authority to intervene.


“There are obviously strong feelings on both sides of this issue, but the United States Supreme Court has spoken, and same-sex marriage is now legal in Kentucky and the rest of the United States,” Mr. Beshear, a Democrat, said.


Some lawmakers have discussed the possibility of changes to state law to address the issue, but Mr. Beshear, who is not running for re-election, said again that he would not call a special legislative session, so any action would have to wait until next year.


By midday Tuesday, the county clerk’s office here was mostly empty, but demonstrators faced each other across a plaza outside the white-columned courthouse.


On one side, Ms. Davis’s supporters held signs with messages including: “Don’t give up. The answer’s on the way.” The clerk’s critics raised their own, equally blunt placards with the declarations: “Small town, not small mind,” and “You don’t own marriage.”


Flavis McKinney, 72, said he had come to the courthouse “to stand up for God and his word, and to stand up for our clerk.”


“I’ve raised five children, 13 grandchildren and four great-grandchildren,” said Mr. McKinney, who is retired. “Been married 52 years to the same wife, and God has blessed us because we’ve done it God’s way, not man’s way. We’ve obeyed God.”


But Ms. Davis’s critics, many of whom appeared to be in their 20s and 30s, argued that she personified a dated approach to marriage.


“It really just blows my mind that people can be so closed-minded,” said Shaina Cercone, 22, a student at nearby Morehead State University. “We’re out here trying to support love. Christianity supposedly supports love in all ways, so it seems kind of contradictory that they’re out here, I guess, discriminating.”


She added: “It’s 2015. Times have changed, and I think everyone that’s an American citizen needs to realize that.”


Ms. Davis’s supporters, including Mr. McKinney, said they were frustrated by the legal system that had produced the standoff.


“Every court system that she’s had to go before is a rigged court,” he said. “If she should be fined or jailed, either one, I think it could be one of the most disgraceful things that ever happened in this county.”


But he also said he was confident that with God’s help, Ms. Davis would prevail.

“He delivered Daniel from the lion’s den,” Mr. McKinney said. “So I trust he will deliver her.”


Ms. Miller said she felt no animosity toward Ms. Davis, though they had become adversaries.


“She’s standing up for her beliefs, as we’re standing up for our beliefs, and we understand how hard that is,” Ms. Miller said. “But we also believe that we do have the right to get married and that as a clerk in a county government office, she should be issuing the license. It’s her job.”

[Iceaxe]

This chick needs to lose her job, which she is not doing. I understand her belief's and that is all fine and dandy, but she doesn't work for God, she works for the people of the county and those people are not getting the service they pay for.

[BruteForce]

These guys drive or fly down from Ohio to get a marriage license in Kentucky? Stir-the-pot much do they?

This whole LGBT is so one-sided. If you don't support it, then you're obviously a bigot. It would seem all this dialogue is one sided. If you're not in the LGBT camp, you're obviously a bigot with hatred in your heart. Seems there's zero tolerance for the religious perspective. Hmm..

[phatch]

I don't think that's the case at all. Her religion is not being told to perform gay marriage or to recognize the marriage as valid within her religion. She's welcome to speak on her own time about how she feels it's an abomination.,

However, her job as an elected official and under the oath she swore to uphold the laws of the land, doesn't give her the privilege of ignoring the law for her religious views. She can step down and maintain her religious purity or go to jail and maintain her religious views. She's already been held in comtempt of court for her actions and jail will follow.

What she can't do is use her elected position to force her religious views on others by failing to do her sworn duty.

[phatch]

Jail it is. It's what she earned.

[Iceaxe]

It's about time this circus came to a proper end.

We don't get to pick and choose the laws we follow. If the people don't like a particular law our system is built so the law can be changed.

[Sombeech]

Looks like she's doing jail time now!

[qedcook]

If she refuses to do her job (even if it is being a judge), shouldn't she just get fired, not thrown into jail?

[phatch]

Elected positions can't be fired in general. A higher official often demands their resignation, but I don't think they can be fired in that case either. They can be impeached or otherwise shamed into resigning office as with Swallow or even Buttars was shamed out of running again.

Or if enough people in the electing region sign a petition most states allow for a recall election.

[accadacca]

She might be in trouble in jail... :eek2:

[BruteForce]

So, as to this specific discussion, I do agree that as an elected official, she is in error and needs to uphold her duty to the law and her constituents. But, for the broader discussion -- these guys were trolling and looking to start a fight, and of late, it's always so very one-sided. We've become so politically correct, afraid to offend and myopic these past few years. Lack of tolerance is a wide and long two-way street.

[phatch]

I wonder what it means for Utah's law that gives religious exemption in these situations as long as someone else in the office is willing to do it. Her attorneys argued for that and also for fines rather than jail time. I think they were trying to set precedent knowing they would lose on straight legal grounds. This is similar to how the interracial marriage law played out after it was upheld at SCOTUS. There were many who made claims of religious exemption, but they didn't stand against the courts on that very well.

Now Kentucky is a different Circuit, but where her appeal was rejected by SCOTUS, I'm not sure if it applies here?

[phatch]

As to the guys trolling. They might be. But people like to get married where they like to get married and we've not looked down on that historically. It's part of why there's the full faith and credit clause in the constitution. Maybe they have a family history there, or like a particular resort in that county for the ceremony. Who knows?

[Iceaxe]

I don't consider it trolling when you force someone to do their job.

More like the dumb bitch was seeking her 15 minutes of fame.

YMMV

[ddavis]

I have read on other sites that she was offered the option of letting others in the office issue the licenses and avoid jail (my understanding is that the judge offered her the option), but she turned it down.

I've also read that the judge declined to fine her because the fines would have been covered by her supporters, so it wouldn't have been any burden to her.

[BruteForce]

I don't consider it trolling when you force someone to do their job.

More like the dumb bitch was seeking her 15 minutes of fame.

YMMV

Wow. Didn't see that coming from you. I am fairly certain she didn't want this sudden "fame" and was just trying to maintain her religious identity, whereas these trolls were looking to make a stink as many LGBT'ers are doing. So, what have I learned in the last 6 or so years. If you're white, a veteran, a police officer or Christian, its totally okay to threaten you, berate you and/or trash your background or ideology. This is NOT the America I fought for. This is NOT the America I want to continue to live in. I have been a fierce and loyal patriot of America, but it seems that this mental disorder of liberalism is something that is now growing beyond control and my family and I are now seriously thinking about relocating OCONUS.

[Iceaxe]

If the dumb bitch doesn't want to issue licenses I'm cool with that. But she would not allow the clerks to issue licenses. She's now sitting right where she belongs.

[dgw2jr]

Wow. Didn't see that coming from you. I am fairly certain she didn't want this sudden "fame" and was just trying to maintain her religious identity, whereas these trolls were looking to make a stink as many LGBT'ers are doing. So, what have I learned in the last 6 or so years. If you're white, a veteran, a police officer or Christian, its totally okay to threaten you, berate you and/or trash your background or ideology. This is NOT the America I fought for. This is NOT the America I want to continue to live in. I have been a fierce and loyal patriot of America, but it seems that this mental disorder of liberalism is something that is now growing beyond control and my family and I are now seriously thinking about relocating OCONUS.
What if she denied the licenses because she is Muslim? Would you still defend her then?

The law says she must issue a marriage license to those who qualify for them. The SCOTUS has declared that gay people qualify for marriage licenses. She didn't issue the licenses so she broke the law and was given a chance to correct herself which she did not and was found in contempt of court. She dug the hole she's in.

As far as her right to freedom of religion goes, her rights end where the rights of others begin.

[twotimer]

Who in their right mind would want to get married in the first place? For cryin' out loud, I sure miss the days when the weirdos kept their heads down.

[Iceaxe]

Who in their right mind would want to get married in the first place?

Gay people deserve the right to be miserable just like the rest of us.

[emoji631]

[accadacca]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/04/efe132f0f596c469e7b5f082e4c3501c.jpg

[Absolute Gravity]

Wow. Didn't see that coming from you.

Damn, I saw it a mile away because Shane is probably the most consistent commenter here. He pretty much said the same thing during the whole Cliven Bundy fiasco.


This is NOT the America I fought for.

An America where government representatives get to enforce their religion upon you is not what I would have anybody fight for. Is that what you fought for?


my family and I are now seriously thinking about relocating OCONUS

Reminds me of the old liberal trope; "I'm moving to Canada if X happens". What is your preferred OCONUS location? I'm guessing Alaska.

[twotimer]

Yowza Tony...let 'er rip. Damn good post.

[Sombeech]

We are so desperate to get married, let's travel to another state multiple times where we will be met with infamous resistance.

[oldno7]

I might be a little confused, can one of you tell me what law she broke?

She defied a court order but based on what law? just looking for clarification.

[phatch]

I might be a little confused, can one of you tell me what law she broke?

She defied a court order but based on what law? just looking for clarification.

She didn't break a law. She defied a Supreme Court ruling that overturned numerous state laws and a specific court order to do her job. Or in the case Utah, that nullified an amendment to the state constitution. She was jailed for contempt of court.

While there are laws specifying a citizen's duty in regards to a court ruling and contempt of court, I don't think that's exactly what you were asking. Those are In the United States, relevant statutes include 18 U.S.C. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_18_of_the_United_States_Code) §§ 401 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/401.html)–403 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/403.html)and Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Rule_of_Criminal_Procedure) 42.

It's important to remember our legal rulebook is comprised of statute (laws by congress), but also rules, regulations, ordnance and so on, many of which are created at the will and operational necessity of various executive branch bureaus, agencies, divisions and so forth.

[qedcook]

She's been released. A district judge freed her.

[oldno7]

Really just curious as to what specific law she broke.....

If an elected official can be jailed for not conforming to a small minorities demands, then I have a list of perspective jail sitters....

Also, I don't think there is any law(prove me wrong) stating an elected official has to do their job--thats what elections are for...

Non-elected, different story, for sure....

[phatch]

The oath of office is legally binding as demonstrated in this case.

[accadacca]

Eye of the Tiger.... :lol8:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydyFhIjdRlU

[oldno7]

The oath of office is legally binding as demonstrated in this case.

Boy I agree with that!!!

So you can show me her oath that states she must marry gay couples..

Geez, that should clear it all up now that you will post her oath....

[oldno7]

And of course I'm sure you'll follow that up with the exact law that states an elected official can be jailed for failure to follow an oath.

One before the other of course but it sounds like you already have these documents found, so you can share them with us all
and enhance our civic learning.

Thanks in advance for sharing these....

[Scott P]

Really just curious as to what specific law she broke.....

I was curious as well, so had to look it up. Here's what I found.

It seems that it was law 522.030 1(a) or 522.030 1(b)

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-09/2/15/enhanced/webdr11/enhanced-533-1441222111-6.png

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-09/2/15/enhanced/webdr01/enhanced-7187-1441222111-3.png

Official misconduct in the first degree is a Class A misdemeanor and is punishable with imprisonment not to exceed 12 months and fines of $500. Official misconduct in the second degree is a Class B misdemeanor and carries a potential punishment of up to 90 days imprisonment and fines of $250.

[Iceaxe]

She was jailed for contempt, not for breaking a law. That's a big difference.

[oldno7]

She was jailed for contempt, not for breaking a law. That's a big difference.

Guess I'm not sure why one would be in court in the first place to be able to show contempt?

[oldno7]

I was curious as well, so had to look it up. Here's what I found.

It seems that it was law 522.030 1(a) or 522.030 1(b)

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-09/2/15/enhanced/webdr11/enhanced-533-1441222111-6.png

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-09/2/15/enhanced/webdr01/enhanced-7187-1441222111-3.png

Official misconduct in the first degree is a Class A misdemeanor and is punishable with imprisonment not to exceed 12 months and fines of $500. Official misconduct in the second degree is a Class B misdemeanor and carries a potential punishment of up to 90 days imprisonment and fines of $250.

Could you highlight the part where you see she broke the law?

[Scott P]

Could you highlight the part where you see she broke the law?

1(b)

Refrains from performing a duty imposed upon him (her) by law

[oldno7]

1(b)

Refrains from performing a duty imposed upon him (her) by law

ah--o.k., missed the part where one of her duties was to marry gay couples.

The Kentucky Constitution, prohibits gay marriage and was passed by 75% of the votes.




Kentucky Constitution



Section 233AValid or recognized marriage -- Legal status of unmarried individuals.Only a marriage between one man and one woman shall be valid or recognized as a marriage in Kentucky. A legal status identical or substantially similar to that of marriage for unmarried individuals shall not be valid or recognized.
Text as Ratified on: November 2, 2004.
History: Creation proposed by 2004 Ky. Acts ch. 128, sec. 1.

[oldno7]

So it seems her personal beliefs were one reason not to issue gay marriage license along with "State law" for a second.

I guess everyone would be ok with her going to jail for defying the Kentucky Constitution?

She swore to uphold the laws of Kentucky--right?

[Scott P]

ah--o.k., missed the part where one of her duties was to marry gay couples.

It was only after the Supreme Court overturned the State Law and said that she had to perform the marriages that she violated the law. The Supreme Court only clarifies laws according to the Constitution when lower or State courts disagree on the interpretation of the Constitution of the United States.

PS, don't shoot the messenger. I was only pointing out what law she was charged with violating. I looked it up since I was curious.

Personally, I don't support changing the definition of marriage. In my opinion, they should keep the definition of marriage how it was and just call something else a civil union. I don't know why they just don't do this and be done with it.


She swore to uphold the laws of Kentucky--right?

Actually, no. The oath never says anything about upholding the law. That is a judge's job, rather than a clerk's. Here is the oath taken by county clerks in Kentucky:

"I, ....., do swear that I will well and truly discharge the duties of the office of .............. County Circuit Court clerk, according to the best of my skill and judgment, making the due entries and records of all orders, judgments, decrees,opinions and proceedings of the court, and carefully filing and preserving in my office all books and papers which come to my possession by virtue of my office; and that I will not knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality, so help me God."

The oath only says that she will perform her duties as directed (such as "recording orders of the court", and "filing and preserving books and papers"), rather than uphold the laws. As a clerk, her job isn't to uphold the law (any more than an ordinary citizen) or to make judgement, but only to record, file, perform tasks (such as issuing marriage licences), etc. A clerk only does tasks as directed by the law and courts, rather than enforces or upholds the law or makes the judegments. If she were a judge, the whole dynamics would be changed.

[Sombeech]

Boy I agree with that!!!

So you can show me her oath that states she must marry gay couples..

Geez, that should clear it all up now that you will post her oath....
81451

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[Iceaxe]

Perhaps this will clear things up for some of you....

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/09/7131d7118a71474c3e226341b23e747f.jpg

[Sombeech]

I love it when Liberals try to interrogate Republicans on what this Democratic County Clerk did


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=158&v=W2TRpAsLZpo

[Sombeech]

An openly gay Texas judge says she refuses to conduct marriage ceremonies for straight couples until same-sex couples can also wed.


Dallas County Judge Tonya Parker explained her decision Tuesday at a monthly meeting for the Stonewall Democrats of Dallas.


“I do not perform them because it is not an equal application of the law. Period,” she said, according to the Dallas Voice, a newspaper for the gay community.


Parker told the audience that while she refuses to conduct the ceremonies, she explains her reasoning to the couples and passes them along to another judge.


“I use it as my opportunity to give them a lesson about marriage equality in the state because I feel like I have to tell them why I’m turning them away,” she said.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1027708.1330038651!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/judge24n-1-web.jpg?enlarged

[Sombeech]

From 2012. I'm still looking for that article where she was thrown in jail or disbarred. Can somebody help me find it?

She would refuse to marry straight couples, and send them to somebody else who could.

Technically the Kentucky clerk was saying "we aren't giving out marriage certificates today". She didn't say the gay couple FROM OHIO couldn't get married, just that she wasn't giving out the certificates.

And just like in 2012, the couple could choose to go elsewhere.

Now where is that gawl darned article where the judge went to jail, it's around here somewhere.

[phatch]

As a public official, I don't think she should have been legally allowed to discriminate. She should have been held to her duty.

Private officials, such as church clergy are free to discriminate as their beliefs dictate.

And technically, Davis prohibited others from acting who have since shown their willingness to act. This judge helped couples find another to perform the duty directly.

[Sombeech]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBOatQ5XuLo

[phatch]

Huckabee is wrong on the facts. The Supreme Court didn't create a law.They rejected existing laws as unequal and discriminatory.

Nor is he correct in saying that we must remain subject to the decisions of the court. Other avenues for change exist. Marriage as only for a man and a woman can be made as an amendment to the Constitution. Future court cases could overturn The Supreme Court decision. It's happened before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_overruled_United_States_Supreme_Court_deci sions

States could get out of the marriage business entirely, which would actually be my preference. Leave marriage to religion and let people contract their commingled lives in ways they mutually agree to.

[phatch]

Clela Rorex in Colorado in the 1970s issued marriage licenses to Colorado gay couples because the law didn't forbid it. Was that wrong?

[Sombeech]

Huckabee is wrong on the facts. The Supreme Court didn't create a law.They rejected existing laws as unequal and discriminatory.

Well, so if the Supreme Court didn't create a law, which "new law" was this clerk avoiding or breaking?

[Sombeech]

1 blaring question is absent from the media. Why did this gay couple travel from Ohio to Kentucky, in an attempt to get the marriage certificate?

I must be missing something, maybe they were actually moving to Kentucky, so they decided to apply there.

But why not try to get married in Ohio?

[uintafly]

1 blaring question is absent from the media. Why did this gay couple travel from Ohio to Kentucky, in an attempt to get the marriage certificate?

I must be missing something, maybe they were actually moving to Kentucky, so they decided to apply there.

But why not try to get married in Ohio?

They no doubt did it to make a point, but who cares? Why did the freedom riders travel to other states when they could have ridden in integrated buses where they are from??

As for your earlier post about the Dallas judge, while she did refuse to personally conduct the ceremony she passed them off to another judge to perform them. Unlike the KY clerk who wouldn't allow anyone in the office to do so.

My wife grew up about an hour from Moorhead so I have spent a fair amount of time in them thar hills, and I can tell you that for a good chunk of those folks their discussed for gays only slightly outstrips their discussed for Mormons. If she were to refuse to grand marriage licenses for people to get married in an LDS temple because she thought it was a cult, would you still be cool with it?

[Sombeech]

They no doubt did it to make a point, but who cares?

It certainly shows their priorities, right?

They love each other so much and they are desperate to get married, so they'll travel out of state SEVERAL times, to a carefully chosen location where they know they'll be denied, and try to get a marriage certificate from this location? Really?

Does this look like a couple that just want to get married and move on with their lives? Nah, they could have been married a while ago.

[Sombeech]

If she were to refuse to grand marriage licenses for people to get married in an LDS temple because she thought it was a cult, would you still be cool with it?

If they were denying LDS marriage licenses from this one office in Kentucky, I sure as hell wouldn't travel to that same one office in Kentucky and ask for a marriage license after the 3rd attempt.

I guess if I loved my partner enough that I wanted to get married, I would go to a place where I could get a marriage license and get the hell on with my life. But maybe that's me. I don't need to tattle on people that are bigots towards Mormons. I accept the fact that I don't need to force everybody to view life as I do, they don't need to believe the same things I do, they don't need to vote the same way I do.

You know, I've heard all of my life how people are tired of others shoving their life views down others' throats. Haven't heard that much lately though from those folks.

[Sombeech]

Picture this:

My girlfriend and I want to get married. I mean we are crazy about each other.

We start planning the wedding, honeymoon, getting everything in order.

I say to her, "Hey there's this place up in Idaho that hates Mormons and they are in the news for denying marriage licenses to LDS people because of all that secret satanic stuff we do when nobody is looking. Let's go up there and try to get a license, maybe we can film it and it would go viral."

Her - "Um, I just want to get married. Can we skip that stuff and just get the license here in Utah?"

Me - "No don't you see, we might get in the news! Oh and remember, when they deny us, we've got to get really upset and make the world believe that there is no possible way we would ever be able to get married, that it's Obama's fault."

Her- "Are you doing this because you love me, or because you want to get in the news and highlight this bigot clerk up in Idaho?"

Me- "Oh honey I love you I'd do anything for you"

Her- "Do you love me enough to just get a license from our local clerk so we can get married?"

Me- "I guess so, but could we at least try it, like 4 times, and then get the license here?"

Her- "I think it's time to see other people"

[uintafly]

At the end of the day the couple's motives are a moot point. Maybe they want 15 minutes of fame, maybe they want to prove a point, or maybe they just love fishing at Cave Run. It doesn't change the fact that her job is to issue marriage licenses and when she refused the court ordered her to issue. When she further refused she was then in contempt of court and sent to the slammer.

[Sombeech]

At the end of the day the couple's motives are a moot point. Maybe they want 15 minutes of fame, maybe they want to prove a point, or maybe they just love fishing at Cave Run. It doesn't change the fact that her job is to issue marriage licenses and when she refused the court ordered her to issue. When she further refused she was then in contempt of court and sent to the slammer.

I agree, she needs to do her job. If she doesn't want to do her job, she should resign from that position.

Certain people are just trying to figure out the particulars of the job. Did they have marriage license forms that provided for a partner and partner? Or was it Husband and Wife? Was she supposed to scribble out the Wife part and put "other dude" and likewise for a lesbian couple? These kinds of "annotations" cannot be done to certain legal forms, and could very possibly void the marriage in the end.

I know everybody is celebrating and dancing in the streets and such with their Facebook profile turned all rainbow, but when laws change, you've just gotta wait for the rest of the paperwork and procedures to catch up.

If you want to stir the pot, be prepared to deal with some criticism. If they drove from Ohio for this specific reason (did they?) then they most certainly deserve to be called out for it, and accused of not doing this for the pure love of their partner.

[phatch]

Well, so if the Supreme Court didn't create a law, which "new law" was this clerk avoiding or breaking?

She was not accused of breaking a new law. Rather, the law changed by nullifying existing law. The SCOTUS ruling nullified the Kentucky Amendment 1 the same as it did Utah's Amendment 3. Absent the language of those amendments specifying man and woman, there was no legal barrier to gay marriage as it is already illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender. Or, if there were other gender based laws, they too were nullified as applies to marriage.

The court therefore ordered her to comply with the new status, which she refused, ending up with her being in contempt of court which is not precisely the same as breaking a law.

Read Scott P's post about Official Misconduct, the one that requires elected officials to do their job. That law is one she broke, but was not prosecuted for. Yet.

[Sombeech]

Looks like she even got her job back, wow. But she just won't be involved in issuing marriage licenses to Gay couples.

That's what she should have done in the first place. She doesn't want to be involved? Let somebody else do it. Just like Doctors who don't want to perform abortions, they refer the mother to somebody else.

[oldno7]

gay marriage--abortion, it's all an obama-nation.

[DiscGo]

81476

[Absolute Gravity]

81476

No worries, Huckabee's on it.

81477

Leave no good bigot behind.

[DiscGo]

Leave no good bigot behind.

I like that line.

[Sombeech]

No worries, Huckabee's on it.

81477

Leave no good bigot behind.
Finally we can blame Republicans on this topic!

[Sombeech]

81497

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[Sombeech]

81505

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[Absolute Gravity]

81505

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Ouch!

[Sombeech]

It's not worth the risk.

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[Absolute Gravity]

81476

And Fixed.
Kentucky clerk in gay marriage dispute switches to Republican Party
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/25/us-usa-gaymarriage-kentucky-idUSKCN0RP20M20150925?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter

[Sombeech]

So you're saying she broke the law as a Democrat but follows the law as a Republican?

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[dougr]

Isn't she just doing as San Francisco and countless other leftist enclaves do in their ignoring of federal immigration law? Seems the left only wants the law enforced when it suits their agenda.

[Scott P]

Interesting statement from LDS Church leaders:

http://news.yahoo.com/mormon-leader-kentucky-clerk-takes-wrong-approach-gays-223518952--election.html

(Posting only because many Bogley members are LDS)