Heaps and Imlay: Wetsuit vs. Drysuit in early June

[jacobwells]

A group of us are planning on doing some of the bigger canyons in Zion in early June. We are doing Heaps from Lava point, and Imlay Sneak along with some others. All of us have both drysuits or thick wetsuits (5-7mm) available. Any advice? Will we tear up a drysuit in these canyons under typical conditions? ie. Log soup, some potential keepers, beached whales, etc. I would much rather carry the drysuit, but I am concerned about durability/failure mid-canyon.

Thanks in advance.

Jake

[GueroSteve]

My Candition from Friday, May 29th.


Group of 4 did Left Sneak from the Grotto. 4 hours to the Crossroads, 4 more to the Narrows. Out to Temple in 9.5 hours.

Easiest conditions possible - no pack tosses, no potholes, everything was beached whale'd with ease. We were all comfortable with 5-7mm of neo. Trash compactor was pretty easy by comparison to previous conditions.

It could have been done in 5mm if you have a quick group or mild tolerance to cold water.

[Canyonater]

Just did Heaps this past weekend in a 5/3 and was fine. use elbow and knee protection along with shorts and suit should be fine. I DEFINITELY wouldnt take a dry suit.

[Bootboy]

Did heaps on Monday in a 5/4, was just fine. Keep moving and you'll stay warm enough.

[2065toyota]

Did heaps on Monday in a 5/4, was just fine. Keep moving and you'll stay warm enough.


Thx. We are heading through Sunday. Supposed to rain Friday and Saturday so it may be completely full again. Either way it will be good

[Iceaxe]

I always use a dry suit in Heaps and Imlay, mostly because it weighs 1/4 of what a wetsuit does, it packs to 1/4 the size and is much easier to hike in. I also have never used any protection on the outside and my dry suit is still going strong after 15 years. I just pay attention to what I'm doing and I don't do butt slides.

None of the Zion canyons are particularly hard on wetsuits or dry suits.

YMMV

[qedcook]

We did Imlay in 3/2 mm wetsuits Tuesday and were totally fine in terms of warmth. We completed the route in 9.5 hours, so that might have helped... Oh, and for some odd reason, we didn't lose any gear. I guess we need to learn how to canyoneer better...

[ratagonia]

We did Imlay in 3/2 mm wetsuits Tuesday and were totally fine in terms of warmth. We completed the route in 9.5 hours, so that might have helped... Oh, and for some odd reason, we didn't lose any gear. I guess we need to learn how to canyoneer better...

My rope-stealing trolls take Tuesdays and Wednesdays off.

:moses:

[qedcook]

Me and one other friend are going to do Heaps on Tuesday. Anyone want to join (preferably if you have a 300' static rope.)

[WorkBad]

For the people that wear dry suits through canyons. What do you find comfortable to wear underneath the suit so that you aren't overheating in canyons like Heaps and Imlay?

[Iceaxe]

This time of year I'd probably just wear the clothes I hiked up in. I'd add a poly-pro top if I got cold. It's not cold water that causes me to chill, it's cold water evaporating off my body the cools me down.

FWIW I usually run hot and have a high tolerance for cold water so I seldom wear as much neoprene as others. Just mentioning that so others are warned what works for me might not work for you.

[mzamp]

This time of year I'd probably just wear the clothes I hiked up in. I'd add a poly-pro top if I got cold. It's not cold water that causes me to chill, it's cold water evaporating off my body the cools me down.


Me too - on cooler days I will wear schoeller pants to hike in and carry a poly-pro top becuase they are too hot for me to hike in. If it was a warmer day I was wearing non-insulating pants I would bring a base layer bottom to put on also. Keep in mind if I am the only one in a dry suit I usually end up in the water more often bagging ropes and stuff.

I don't understand wearing coveralls over a dry suit. those things most weigh an extra 20lbs when wet. I used to wear shorts over the top so I could but slide, but now I have added a scuttle butt instead. -as always YMMV

[ratagonia]

Me too - on cooler days I will wear schoeller pants to hike in and carry a poly-pro top becuase they are too hot for me to hike in. If it was a warmer day I was wearing non-insulating pants I would bring a base layer bottom to put on also. Keep in mind if I am the only one in a dry suit I usually end up in the water more often bagging ropes and stuff.

I don't understand wearing coveralls over a dry suit. those things most weigh an extra 20lbs when wet. I used to wear shorts over the top so I could but slide, but now I have added a scuttle butt instead. -as always YMMV

This time of year, I would wear one heavy long-underwear bottom and a heavy long-underwear top under the drysuit, with a spare light-fleece top on hand in case it was needed. Not too hard to adjust up top - much harder to adjust down below.

The coveralls are made from polyester and they do not absorb all that much water, so they are not so so heavy even wet. I like wearing them over the drysuit because then I can move without being super-careful on every move. Besides, they are required on the rental drysuits I use from ZAC. A small price to pay for having someone else maintain "my" drysuit.

:moses:

[2065toyota]

Unless absolutely needed I think I will stick with wetsuits. Was wearing a brand new wetsuit so I was being fairly careful and I still stuck a stick through the thigh and cut a hole on a log downclimb

[Cameron7]

We just did the Imlay sneak and I wore my 4/3 with a poly pant and a Shark Skin vest from Adventure Plus that I am obsessed with...and a Sharkline beanie. I was great all day! I wore neo gloves too because I get cold hands.

[Cameron7]

planning to wear the same thing for Heaps in a few weeks too.

[qedcook]

I'm wondering how long the second-to-last rappels in Heaps actually is? I hear anywhere from 150 feet to 165 feet. Is it short enough to just double up the 300 foot rope?

Thanks in advance.

[TommyBoy]

Not sure on the exact length, but personally I wouldn't try it with a 300' rope. If its exactly 150' then you will have JUST enough rope to get there IF you rigged it perfectly in the middle and thats assuming you have a brand new rope with no shrinkage, not a place I want to be with zero margin for error. I think its actually a little bit longer, like 155-160'. If you had a rope that is a little longer though like 330' then you could probably do it.

[2065toyota]

I think it's closer to 140' but I also would not risk it. Especially if it is going to also be your last rap 300' also. It is notorious for sticking ropes.

[Iceaxe]

^^^ What he said ^^^

The second to last rappel is a little under 150' so you could use your 300' rope. But if you have other rope that is what I'd use for a number of different reasons.

You need the 300' rope to finish the canyon. You have another 300' of rope for your pull side so why not use that at the 150' and eliminate the risk?

The bird perch is small and extremely crowded with three, so it's much easier to stage at the top of the 150' and just move people through using the bird perch as a resting and transition station. This becomes mandatory when your group gets to four or more.

I like to keep my 300' coiled all nice and neat until the last rappel. Trying to untangle 300' of rope at the bird perch is not an easy task.

YMMV

[ratagonia]

Not sure on the exact length, but personally I wouldn't try it with a 300' rope. If its exactly 150' then you will have JUST enough rope to get there IF you rigged it perfectly in the middle and thats assuming you have a brand new rope with no shrinkage, not a place I want to be with zero margin for error. I think its actually a little bit longer, like 155-160'. If you had a rope that is a little longer though like 330' then you could probably do it.

The rap is 140 feet.

Kinda crazy the comments here.

Somehow, I HOPE, with Heaps on your agenda, that you have the skill to descend a 140' drop using a 300' rope without risk (beyond the ordinary).

That said, it is possible to get the rope stuck on that penultimate rappel, and thus not the best idea to use your 300' rope, your tool needed to get to the ground, on that rappel. I usually bring a 150' rope through Heaps to use on this rappel, and use as a working rope in the canyon; allowing the 300'er to be used on the 2nd rappel and the last rappel only.

The Bird Perch is big enough for 4 people, though a bit tight.

Tom :moses:

[Bo_Beck]

planning to wear the same thing for Heaps in a few weeks too.

I'm wearing a 3mm full wetsuit, with a 3mm shorty on top of that, then fleece on top of those then my drysuit on top of that! Can you just push me through heaps, or roll me?

[skiclimb3287]

I'm wearing a 3mm full wetsuit, with a 3mm shorty on top of that, then fleece on top of those then my drysuit on top of that! Can you just push me through heaps, or roll me?
Ha! Just received my 5mm wetsuit. Using that with maybe some poly underneath. The added buoyancy you will have could be huge for partner assisted pothole escapes ;-)

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Bo_Beck]

Ha! Just received my 5mm wetsuit. Using that with maybe some poly underneath. The added buoyancy you will have could be huge for partner assisted pothole escapes ;-)

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

You mean "the floating island" effect?!

[TommyBoy]

The rap is 140 feet.

Kinda crazy the comments here.


Actually my comments weren't crazy I was just misinformed about how long the drop actually was. Even at 140' depending on rope shrinkage it could leave you with very little margin for error. All of which is really moot anyway as you mentioned because of the potential to stick the rope when pulling.