Passing a knot

[nkanarik]

Here's another (advanced?) technical question...
When practicing "Passing a Knot" with my new CRITR device, I encountered a problem I won't have if I were to use a "third hand" as describe in attached image.

The problem I encountered is that the amount of rope needed to lock off the CRITR is quite substantial, so when I finally offload the PMMO and transition the weight to the re-positioned locked rappel device below the knot, I end up with the prusik ~6' above me (in my case I used Tibloc instead of prusik, so after doing some cordlette shaking, I was able to retrieve it).

Normally, I won't use a third hand, so was wondering if anyone has a better way to do it (with minimal gear).
The image below is not 1:1 when compared to the process I used, but close enough for this particular problem (the main delta as mentioned above is that I use the CRITR w/o third hand).

Feedback is appreciated

[moab mark]

I've got that book somewhere. Forgot all about it. It sure has some cool stuff in it. No suggestion sorry.:(

[harness man]

Hi Nkanarik
Passing a knot is made very easy with the use of a VT Prussic (and the CRITR!)
Tie the VT in place of the "PMMO" and tension it
Transfer the CRITR to just below the knot and lock it off.
Carefully "bump" or caress the top of the loaded VT until it slides down towards the knot, loading the CRITR.
Remove the VT and rappel (or transfer the VT below the knot if you want it as a back up while you rappel)
With the VT I no longer carry any prussic sling.
A CRITR, a thin spectra double runner, a VT prussick, 5 locking biners, a petzl micro traxtion and petzl basic (or tiblock) and you are
ready for almost anything.

[ratagonia]

Gosh darn! Climbers do make things complicated!!!

:moses:

[Iceaxe]

Gosh darn! Climbers do make things complicated!!!

:moses:
I was wondering if I was the only one who was thinking that.

[nkanarik]

I was wondering if I was the only one who was thinking that.
I agree the picture/process seems complicated, but hey...this is my life we're talking about :haha:...Do you guys have a simpler way?

Harness Man: Regarding your "Tie the VT in place of the "PMMO" and tension it statement"... I can try it, but I'm not sure how it solves the problem.
The CRITR will be locked off (with significant amount of rope) prior to tying in the VT/PMMO, so the way I see it, I'll end up with the VT prusik far above me or not able to transition the load from the VT to CRITR since the VT might be too short.

Anyhow...will try later this week and get back with results

[deagol]

...
Passing a knot is made very easy with the use of a VT Prussic (and the CRITR!)
Tie the VT in place of the "PMMO" and tension it
Transfer the CRITR to just below the knot and lock it off.
Carefully "bump" or caress the top of the loaded VT until it slides down towards the knot, loading the CRITR.
Remove the VT and rappel (or transfer the VT below the knot if you want it as a back up while you rappel)
With the VT I no longer carry any prussic sling.
A CRITR, a thin spectra double runner, a VT prussick, 5 locking biners, a petzl micro traxtion and petzl basic (or tiblock) and you are
ready for almost anything.

can you post a picture of the CRITR rigged along with the VT Prusik?

I was wondering where the eyelets of the VT connect in relation to the CRITR: the VT is on a separate biner attached to the belay loop, right? Just wondering if the VT interferes with the CRITR....

Thanks..

edit, my belay loop can get pretty hard to insert a second biner into when weighted. need to practice once I get my VT

[ratagonia]

I agree the picture/process seems complicated, but hey...this is my life we're talking about :haha:...Do you guys have a simpler way?

Harness Man: Regarding your "Tie the VT in place of the "PMMO" and tension it statement"... I can try it, but I'm not sure how it solves the problem.
The CRITR will be locked off (with significant amount of rope) prior to tying in the VT/PMMO, so the way I see it, I'll end up with the VT prusik far above me or not able to transition the load from the VT to CRITR since the VT might be too short.

Anyhow...will try later this week and get back with results

"This is my life you are talking about"

All the more reason to make your system simple and efficient.

Try this:

1. when setting up your rappel, use a mariner's knot to extend your first rappel device.

2. rappel down until the first rappel device jams against the knot.

3. attach lower rappel device below the knot. Lock off.

4. release mariner knot.

5. Unlock lower rap device and rappel to the ground.

:moses:

[nkanarik]

"This is my life you are talking about"

All the more reason to make your system simple and efficient.

Try this:

1. when setting up your rappel, use a mariner's knot to extend your first rappel device.

2. rappel down until the first rappel device jams against the knot.

3. attach lower rappel device below the knot. Lock off.

4. release mariner knot.

5. Unlock lower rap device and rappel to the ground.

:moses:

Sounds like a good/simple process...was thinking about it before and was wondering if I can use the knot "to lock" the rappel device.
Will try later this week

[ratagonia]

Sounds like a good/simple process...was thinking about it before and was wondering if I can use the knot "to lock" the rappel device.
Will try later this week

You might need to enlarge the knot, if using a Pirana or Figure 8 type device.

Tom

[nkanarik]

You might need to enlarge the knot, if using a Pirana or Figure 8 type device.

Tom

Got it! Thanks

[hank moon]

The problem I encountered is that the amount of rope needed to lock off the CRITR is quite substantial, so when I finally offload the PMMO and transition the weight to the re-positioned locked rappel device below the knot, I end up with the prusik ~6' above me (in my case I used Tibloc instead of prusik, so after doing some cordlette shaking, I was able to retrieve it).

Your problem as presented makes no sense to me; please explain how any amount of tie-off rope used below the CRITR has any influence on the length of the rope segment between CRITR and PMMO.

[hank moon]

"This is my life you are talking about"

All the more reason to make your system simple and efficient.

Try this:

1. when setting up your rappel, use a mariner's knot to extend your first rappel device.

2. rappel down until the first rappel device jams against the knot.

3. attach lower rappel device below the knot. Lock off.

4. release mariner knot.

5. Unlock lower rap device and rappel to the ground.

:moses:

Sounds like 2 rap devices are in play here, with one left behind on rope above the knot. Not sure that meets the stringent "minimal gear" standards of Mr. (?) Nkanarik :-)

[mzamp]

Sounds like 2 rap devices are in play here, with one left behind on rope above the knot. Not sure that meets the stringent "minimal gear" standards of Mr. Nkanarik :-)

Agree on 2 devices, but you should not have to leave the first behind if you remove it after undoing the mariner knot and prior to unlocking device #2.

[ratagonia]

Agree on 2 devices, but you should not have to leave the first behind if you remove it after undoing the mariner knot and prior to unlocking device #2.

Removing the upper device is difficult to impossible, as there is tension running through it.

For a second device, one can always use a Munter. Not advised for the first device.

I don't think that using one carabiner (for a Munter) would disqualify this solution from "minimal gear". Also, note that this solution really does use minimal gear, if you take a count. But, the Original Poster is the ref on this.

Tom :moses:

[nkanarik]

Your problem as presented makes no sense to me; please explain how any amount of tie-off rope used below the CRITR has any influence on the length of the rope segment between CRITR and PMMO.

Prior to arriving the knot in the rope I need to stop so I can bypass the knot. The figure I attached doesn't lock the rappel device and uses 3rd hand to get to a complete stop before the knot. Since I'm not using a third hand, I had to lock my CRITR device above the knot (prior to setting the PMMO)...locking off the CRITR above the knot creates a ~6' separation from the point in the rope in which I started the locking off to the knot itself. I hope this makes sense...I'll try the other options later this week...I hope that after practicing the various options, the optimal solution will jump at me

[hank moon]

Prior to arriving the knot in the rope I need to stop so I can bypass the knot. The figure I attached doesn't lock the rappel device and uses 3rd hand to get to a complete stop before the knot. Since I'm not using a third hand, I had to lock my CRITR device above the knot (prior to setting the PMMO)...locking off the CRITR above the knot creates a ~6' separation from the point in the rope in which I started the locking off to the knot itself. I hope this makes sense...I'll try the other options later this week...I hope that after practicing the various options, the optimal solution will jump at me

So the question is, how can you begin the load transfer process ("...when I finally offload the PMMO...") with a much shorter rope segment between the knot and the PMMO ?

[nkanarik]

So the question is, how can you begin the load transfer process ("...when I finally offload the PMMO...") with a much shorter rope segment between the knot and the PMMO ?

Correct.

[hank moon]

Correct.

Well there you go then. Most times, finding the correct question is tantamount to finding the answer. Just a slight shade of separation in this case. I'm confident you will succeed as this one is a bit easier than the recent MT problem.

[nkanarik]

Well there you go then. Most times, finding the correct question is tantamount to finding the answer. Just a slight shade of separation in this case. I'm confident you will succeed as this one is a bit easier than the recent MT problem.

I have some ideas...will try later this week/weekend.

[Skeeter]

Prior to arriving the knot in the rope I need to stop so I can bypass the knot. The figure I attached doesn't lock the rappel device and uses 3rd hand to get to a complete stop before the knot. Since I'm not using a third hand, I had to lock my CRITR device above the knot (prior to setting the PMMO)...locking off the CRITR above the knot creates a ~6' separation from the point in the rope in which I started the locking off to the knot itself. I hope this makes sense...I'll try the other options later this week...I hope that after practicing the various options, the optimal solution will jump at me

I follow what you are saying.

[burnsdye]

Nothing wrong with anything anyone else has said, but there is a much easier way. If you're rappelling with an autoblock, you don't need anything else than what you have with you.

Gear needed:


sling
carabiner


Steps:

Use the sling to tie a Klemheist (http://dyeclan.com/outdoors101/canyoneering101/?page=klemheist) or Bachmann Hitch (http://dyeclan.com/outdoors101/canyoneering101/?page=bachmann-hitch) on the rappel rope above the belay device and attach it to your harness with the carabiner
Remove your rappel device and reattach it below the knot
Grab the Klemheist/Bachmann with your hand and pull down on it to lower yourself until you weight the rappel device
Untie the Klemheist/Bachmann
Continue rappelling

[nkanarik]

Nothing wrong with anything anyone else has said, but there is a much easier way. If you're rappelling with an autoblock, you don't need anything else than what you have with you.





I usually don't use autoblock while rappeling...this is why I asked the question :). I do have VT/Hollow block with me on my harness, so I could always lock the CRITR way above the knot, apply the autoblock/3rd hand, and then continue as described in the diagram.

[mzamp]

Removing the upper device is difficult to impossible, as there is tension running through it.


Agree - I wasn't visualizing it accurately. I was thinking once you disconnect the tension is off device #1, but that is not the case.

[mzamp]

I usually don't use autoblock while rappeling...this is why I asked the question :). I do have VT/Hollow block with me on my harness, so I could always lock the CRITR way above the knot, apply the autoblock/3rd hand, and then continue as described in the diagram.

If you know ahead of time that you have to pass a knot, then you can make an exception about using a autoblock.

[nkanarik]

If you know ahead of time that you have to pass a knot, then you can make an exception about using a autoblock.

Agree! BTW...I use (Prusik/Tibloc) MMO rather than a Klemheist (http://dyeclan.com/outdoors101/canyoneering101/?page=klemheist) or Bachmann Hitch (http://dyeclan.com/outdoors101/canyoneering101/?page=bachmann-hitch)

[nkanarik]

"This is my life you are talking about"

Try this:

1. when setting up your rappel, use a mariner's knot to extend your first rappel device.

2. rappel down until the first rappel device jams against the knot.

3. attach lower rappel device below the knot. Lock off.

4. release mariner knot.

5. Unlock lower rap device and rappel to the ground.

:moses:

I re-read this, and I see the "use a mariner's knot to extend your first rappel device" as an equivalent to me using an Autoblock when setting up the rappel, which will eliminate the need to "lock off the CRITR" and avoid the extra length of rope I mentioned.

So...my process is:

Set up an Autoblock (I use BlueWater-VT / Sterling HollowBlock) prior to rappeling below the rappel device (to the harness' belay loop)

If encountering an unpredictable knot...I can always stop mid rappel, lock off CRITR, set up Autoblock, and continue rappelling until the knot


Rappel until I'm ~6" above knot, and lock off the rappel using Autoblock
Set up Chicken-loop contingency with the dangling rope below
Set up PMMO few inches above rappel device (the shorter the PMMO the better) and keep the tension as much as possible
Transition weight into PMMO
Undo Autoblock
Disconnect CRITR, connect below the knot, and lock it off
Disconnect Chicken-loop
Undo PMMO and transition weight to CRITR
Remove PMMO
Unlock CRITR and enjoy the rest of rappel


Gear used (Total of 4 carabiners were used):

1 x CRITR rappel device + carabiner
1 x VT/Hollowblock + carabiner
1 x carabiner for the chicken loop
1 x 20' 6-7mm cordelette + carabiner for PMMO (20' is not a must, but this is what I carry; optional: Use Tibloc+carabiner instead of setting up a prusik with the cordelette)


This process is easy enough in my mind, where the only "complication" is that I have to use the autoblock up front, vs. my usual rappel setting...not a big deal :)...I consider the other options proposed same complexity as mine.


Thank you all!!!

Hank - Let me know if you see other room for improvement :)
Tom - Thanks for sharing your method!

[hank moon]

Gear used (Total of 4 carabiners were used):

1 x CRITR rappel device + carabiner
1 x VT/Hollowblock + carabiner
1 x carabiner for the chicken loop
1 x 20' 6-7mm cordelette + carabiner for PMMO (20' is not a must, but this is what I carry; optional: Use Tibloc+carabiner instead of setting up a prusik with the cordelette)




Note that Todd's method (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?74230-Passing-a-knot&p=568716&viewfull=1#post568716) uses less gear and less steps.

Also, the Sterling Hollow Block has issues. See here (http://canyoncollective.com/threads/emergency-ascending-gear.18781/page-2#post-83300) for more on that.

[ratagonia]

I re-read this, and I see the "use a mariner's knot to extend your first rappel device" as an equivalent to me using an Autoblock when setting up the rappel, which will eliminate the need to "lock off the CRITR" and avoid the extra length of rope I mentioned.

So...my process is:

Set up an Autoblock (I use BlueWater-VT / Sterling HollowBlock) prior to rappeling below the rappel device (to the harness' belay loop)

If encountering an unpredictable knot...I can always stop mid rappel, lock off CRITR, set up Autoblock, and continue rappelling until the knot


Rappel until I'm ~6" above knot, and lock off the rappel using Autoblock
Set up Chicken-loop contingency with the dangling rope below
Set up PMMO few inches above rappel device (the shorter the PMMO the better) and keep the tension as much as possible
Transition weight into PMMO
Undo Autoblock
Disconnect CRITR, connect below the knot, and lock it off
Disconnect Chicken-loop
Undo PMMO and transition weight to CRITR
Remove PMMO
Unlock CRITR and enjoy the rest of rappel


Gear used (Total of 4 carabiners were used):

1 x CRITR rappel device + carabiner
1 x VT/Hollowblock + carabiner
1 x carabiner for the chicken loop
1 x 20' 6-7mm cordelette + carabiner for PMMO (20' is not a must, but this is what I carry; optional: Use Tibloc+carabiner instead of setting up a prusik with the cordelette)


This process is easy enough in my mind, where the only "complication" is that I have to use the autoblock up front, vs. my usual rappel setting...not a big deal :)...I consider the other options proposed same complexity as mine.


Thank you all!!!

Hank - Let me know if you see other room for improvement :)
Tom - Thanks for sharing your method!

Afternoon low blood sugar prevents a thorough analysis, but it really seems like you are making it way to complicated. I suggest TRYING the sequence I suggested physically, and seeing if you like it. I know it is more fun to make up your own sequences, and I respect that, but...

Tom :moses:

[nkanarik]

Note that Todd's method (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?74230-Passing-a-knot&p=568716&viewfull=1#post568716) uses less gear and less steps.

Also, the Sterling Hollow Block has issues. See here (http://canyoncollective.com/threads/emergency-ascending-gear.18781/page-2#post-83300) for more on that.

Not sure how...let me explain why
Todd's procedure:
"


Tie the VT in place of the "PMMO" and tension it --> VT replaces my cordelette
Transfer the CRITR to just below the knot and lock it off. --> Huh...this is where I think there's a problem...in order to do what's described here...

the CRITR must have been locked off (which creates the long rope problem I mentioned) and I guess I end up "carefully bumping" the VT prusik for ~6' ...OR...
In my mind...you need to get to a stop closer to the knot...that stop is achieved by an autoblock (added piece of HW). I simply don't see how you can get to a stop with step1 above close to the knot


Carefully "bump" or caress the top of the loaded VT until it slides down towards the knot, loading the CRITR.
...

​"
BTW...it might seems like I have more steps, but this is because I broke down the process more than others did (included all steps that others might omitted since they might be obvious :))...I think I have ~same #of steps as others.


Anyhow...I'm planning on trying it all later tomorrow/weekend as mentioned before

Thanks

[oldno7]

I don't think you guys understand how a VT system works.

Heres an animated version:http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/valdotain-tresse/

If you use a Bluewater VT prusik, it has a technora sheath, it doesn't heat up or melt when it slides over rope.

So in using the system, you must stop far enough above a knot to tie of your rappel device.

Tie the VT prusik onto your rope using the valdotain tresse system I linked to, weight the VT system by sliding it up the rope.

Un lock your rappel device and re install it below knot.

grab the top of your VT and slowly pull it down, sliding down the rope, until you weight the rappel device, lock off device.

Remove VT system, un lock device, rappel.

It can be done in less time than it took me to type this and your only additional piece of equipment is the

Bluewater VT prusik. Distance sliding down rope with VT system should be 12"-18".

Practice using the VT system a couple feet off the ground until you're proficient.(for obvious reasons)

[oldno7]

As a qualifier--I was once certified as a instructor and a guide by an organization that didn't exist.........

[harness man]

Thanks oldno7 for coherent explainin'
I am a bit clumsy on rope (torn rotator cuff) but will pull out the go pro and shoot it this weekend.
Hanging 20' from our scissor lift, it took less than a minute (while on rappel) to tie on the VT (it is placed ABOVE the CRITR)
rappel to within about 2 feet of the knot, let the VT lock (by letting go of it),
remove the CRITR then put it back on rope right below the knot (then lock it off!)
bump the VT down the rope until my weight is back on the CRITR.
Remove the VT, unlock the CRITR and rappel.
Definitely less time than it took to type this...

[deagol]

I don't think you guys understand how a VT system works.

.... and your only additional piece of equipment is the

Bluewater VT prusik. ..

Thanks for the explanation. Can you clarify one point, though?

When you hook up the VT prussic, don't you have to put it on it's own carabiner that you then connect to the belay loop?

Thanks

[oldno7]

Thanks for the explanation. Can you clarify one point, though?

When you hook up the VT prussic, don't you have to put it on it's own carabiner that you then connect to the belay loop?

Thanks

I use a Short tether.

And yes, I prefer my tether connected to the belay loop.:mrgreen:

[harness man]

I use a climbers spectra daisy chain cause I like to be able to get the position of the VT at the perfect height
(within easy arms reach when loaded).
Also important to have the length correct when using as a tether to a device (petzl basic) for climbing the rope.
I choke the daisy chain to the harness to the side of the belay loop to try to get a little separation from the CRITR.

79381

[Mountaineer]

I use a Short tether.

And yes, I prefer my tether connected to the belay loop.:mrgreen:
VT, spot on.

With a tether, or... Purcell. Gives you a little more extension just in case. If you have one handy.

[harness man]

Mountaineer-
I have no experience with the Purcell, but see that it has lots of functionality and will absorb shock better than most tethers.
How do you find it for crawling through the canyons hanging from your harness.-
does is snag on debris any different from other web gear?

[darhawk]

79441


I practiced this in my yard today and it looked like this after I moved the CRITR below the knot and was pulling the VT down to weight the CRITR. I thought this was pretty straightforward. In this session, I used a short sewn prussik that was girth hitched around my belay loop to extend the VT. I also tried my purcell prussik but found it was a bit too long even at its shortest extension (yeah, I could retie it). A daisy chain sounds like a nice solution too, to extend the VT.

Hmmm. OK. I give up. No matter how I rotate the photo on my computer it posts here sideways. Sorry.

[darhawk]

Mountaineer-
I have no experience with the Purcell, but see that it has lots of functionality and will absorb shock better than most tethers.
How do you find it for crawling through the canyons hanging from your harness.-
does is snag on debris any different from other web gear?

I use a purcell, tied using Bluugnome's very helpful instructions. It does snag some, but not too badly. Mine is 18 inches at its shortest and I girth hitch it around the loops at the front and then biner it to a gear loop on the back of the harness.

[nkanarik]

OK...so I tried Todd's method (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?74230-Passing-a-knot&p=568716&viewfull=1#post568716). I was able to do the "pass the knot" fairly easily, after experimenting with the right # of friction loops on my VT (it wasn't "grabbing" on the 8mm rope I practiced with only 3 friction loops, so I ended up adding a 1-2 loops. I also used a tether for between VT and harness.).


The fact that VT can slide down if being bumped and knowing that all that is holding me at that point it the VT is kind of scary (even when I have the chicken loop and the knot itself as a backup).
I also noticed that dragging the VT for 6' down (due to the extra rope of locking off the CRITR) requires more than just "Carefully "bump" or caress the top of the loaded VT until it slides down towards the knot." --> not sure if I was doing something wrong


Todd's method (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?74230-Passing-a-knot&p=568716&viewfull=1#post568716) is using less gear, but in my mind, it is less smooth than mine (maybe more practice is needed). I'm happy I'm familiar with it, but will use it as my secondary one.

I haven't tried Tom's method yet...will try it out later.


Thanks

[hank moon]

Todd's method (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?74230-Passing-a-knot&p=568716&viewfull=1#post568716) is using less gear, but in my mind, it is less smooth than mine (maybe more practice is needed).


More practice + experimentation, yes.

Bet your first rappel wasn't too smooth, either (mine sure wasn't)

[MrAdam]

OK...so I tried Todd's method (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?74230-Passing-a-knot&p=568716&viewfull=1#post568716). I was able to do the "pass the knot" fairly easily, after experimenting with the right # of friction loops on my VT (it wasn't "grabbing" on the 8mm rope I practiced with only 3 friction loops, so I ended up adding a 1-2 loops. I also used a tether for between VT and harness.).


The fact that VT can slide down if being bumped and knowing that all that is holding me at that point it the VT is kind of scary (even when I have the chicken loop and the knot itself as a backup).
I also noticed that dragging the VT for 6' down (due to the extra rope of locking off the CRITR) requires more than just "Carefully "bump" or caress the top of the loaded VT until it slides down towards the knot." --> not sure if I was doing something wrong


Todd's method (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?74230-Passing-a-knot&p=568716&viewfull=1#post568716) is using less gear, but in my mind, it is less smooth than mine (maybe more practice is needed). I'm happy I'm familiar with it, but will use it as my secondary one.

I haven't tried Tom's method yet...will try it out later.


Thanks

How are you tying the VT? If you tie it as a Valditon Tresse, three wraps to start and then criss cross the strands tightly with the rest of the slack, it works much better for passing knots.

[nkanarik]

How are you tying the VT? If you tie it as a Valditon Tresse, three wraps to start and then criss cross the strands tightly with the rest of the slack, it works much better for passing knots.

As VT with 4 wraps instead of 3 wraps.

[dougr]

Another variation...

I use a Shunt above the rap device as my backup. On every serious rap. Slides easy on sandy ropes, releases under full load, and makes passing a knot simple since it's always in passing a knot mode.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk 2

[nkanarik]

Another variation...

I use a Shunt above the rap device as my backup. On every serious rap. Slides easy on sandy ropes, releases under full load, and makes passing a knot simple since it's always in passing a knot mode.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk 2

This is extra HW though :)

[harness man]

I have an old shunt somewhere in the closet...
Releases while under load (while you are hanging from it)?
Not the one I have used.
Also not rated/recommended for single line 8mm

[hank moon]

I have an old shunt somewhere in the closet...
Releases while under load (while you are hanging from it)?
Not the one I have used.
Also not rated/recommended for single line 8mm

The SHUNT does release under load pretty easily. BUT, don't expect to slide nicely down the rope under control. More like release and drop, especially on skinny lines, and yeah, not rated for 8mm single line.

It is *possible* with much practice (and fine motor control) to develop the skill to descend a few inches or feet (more or less) under control, but not worth the effort IMO if you don't already possess such skill.

[dougr]

The Shunt is easy to unload with feet on a wall, and reasonably easy when free hanging. When the latter it just requires a little bouncing in the harness and a strong palm squeeze. I know others find it hard, but for some reason I haven't.

I'm not sure why lack of descent control is critical here. I reattach the rap device below the knot, snug it up to it, get the brake line fixed, release the Shunt, drop a few inches, done.



Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk 2

[MiCamp]

I'm not sure why lack of descent control is critical here.

Ehh, cause I'm descending and I'd like to make it smooth and safe.

If I had a couple of 1/2 inch bolts sunk into granite and a dynamic line, dropping a couple inches or feet wouldn't be much of a deal.
But on a static line already loaded and with a marginal anchor??? No way!

[oldno7]

Just thought I might add a tip.

When you go to remove your rappel device from above a knot,

attach a tether to it prior to removal.

Then, after re attaching rappel device below knot, remove tether to rappel device.

Failure to do this can result in a dropped rappel device and leave you hangin'.(or so a "friend" told me):mrgreen:

You can use anything as a tether for this and it doesn't need to attach to a belay loop, it only has

to secure the weight of a dropped rappel device.

[nkanarik]

Agree it's a good practice to secure the rappel device to avoid losing it. If dropping the rappel device, you can always apply PMMO below the knot, and rappel on a Munter.

[hank moon]

Droppable rappel device? Sooo last century...

[deagol]

yeah, something like a CRITR, or even a Piranha stays on the biner pretty tight..

[oldno7]

Droppable rappel device? Sooo last century...

This technology, what will they think of next--rappeling off sticks?

[dougr]

Ehh, cause I'm descending and I'd like to make it smooth and safe.

Ha ha, yes, descent control on descent is a good thing.

But I meant more specifically, dropping a few inches while unloading after passing a knot is not a big whoop in most cases. Even static lines have single figure elongation. But yes, if you were using a sketchy anchor on a rap long enough to need knot passing, then I wouldn't want to be dropping either. But then I personally wouldn't be doing that long a rap on a sketchy anchor.

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