Think my 9 year old will be fine in BlueJohn canyon?

[shaye]

Looking to take my 9 year old boy to BlueJohn canyon (Canyon Lands, Utah) in May. We want to see Ralston's rock and do big drop. We are planning on retracing Ralston's route from the south of the canyon up. He is really fit and has done top rope climbing quite a bit. Anyone been there that can give an opinion?

[Iceaxe]

You want to do Blue John complete by entering the the top of main fork and existing at Horseshoe Canyon (the Ralston Route)?

From big drop out to Horseshoe is a long tiring sand slog. It just depends on the kid. Make sure it's something he really wants to do and understands it's going to be a very long day.

Also, May is getting late in the year to do the route, right now is about the perfect time as the hotter it gets the more miserable the hot sand slog becomes.

[Scott P]

Looking to take my 9 year old boy to BlueJohn canyon (Canyon Lands, Utah) in May. We want to see Ralston's rock and do big drop. We are planning on retracing Ralston's route from the south of the canyon up. He is really fit and has done top rope climbing quite a bit. Anyone been there that can give an opinion?

I'm thinking this is a troll, meant to get attention. Also, Bluejohn Canyon is not in Canyonlands, so you obviously know nothing about the area.

Anyway, it depends on the 9 year old. I took my kids into Bluejohn at a lot younger than that, but some nine year olds won't do well. You should know whether or not your own nine year old can do this. It isn't the technical difficulty of the route, but the length that I would be concerned with. As mentioned, May is usually getting pretty hot.


We are planning on retracing Ralston's route from the south of the canyon up.

Ralston's route is down, not up. :roll:

[Iceaxe]

The Ralston Route is partially in Canyonlands as Horseshoe Canyon is a detached unit of Canyonlands NP.

[shaye]

I'm thinking this is a troll, meant to get attention. Also, Bluejohn Canyon is not in Canyonlands, so you obviously know nothing about the area.

Anyway, it depends on the 9 year old. I took my kids into Bluejohn at a lot younger than that, but some nine year olds won't do well. You should know whether or not your own nine year old can do this. It isn't the technical difficulty of the route, but the length that I would be concerned with. As mentioned, May is usually getting pretty hot.

Ralston's route is down, not up. [/COLOR]:roll:

A troll? What the heck are you talking about? Obviously I have not been there or I wouldn't have to ask. Isn't that what these forums are for? To get a little advice? Also, everything I read says BlueJohn is in Canyonlands National Park. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_John_Canyon. So what's up with that? I know my son's abilities well, what I don't know is bluejohn canyon. Geeze.

[qedcook]

I took a group of 12-15 year-old scouts down the canyon last year. Personally, I would go down to the big drop in lower bluejohn, and then retreat back upcanyon. The long hike out after the big drop rappel is a pain, and nothing special at all. There are tons of exits in between the upper forks and the lower fork (where Ralston got stuck). And it is quite easy to retreat from the lower fork. This will save you 5-8 hours of needless hiking, not to mention the need for a carpool, and the need for a long rope if you don't do the upper west fork.

To answer the initial question, yes, a nine year old can handle it, if you retreat upcanyon and save on the long hike out.

[Scott P]

Also, everything I read says BlueJohn is in Canyonlands National Park

Actually, here is what it says:

....southwest of the Horseshoe Canyon Unit of Canyonlands National Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canyonlands_National_Park)

To clarify, Bluejohn is not in Canyonlands; it is southwest of Canyonlands (it is the media that often screws that up, but they know nothing about the area). If you hike all the way through Bluejohn and then several miles through Horseshoe, then you can reach Canyonlands.

The original post seemed suspicious to me, so since it's not, I sincerely apologize for the post. Although the canyon is easy, by technical canyon standards, keep in mind that several people have wanted to see the Ralston chockstone and have come unprepared and have been injured.

Here is some information on Bluejohn Canyon that I have written that I hope you find useful:

http://www.summitpost.org/bluejohn-canyon/301176

It covers all forks of the canyon including where the chockstone is. Use the information presented on length and difficulty and then decide how your nine year old would do on the route chosen.

Shane's website also has the route:

http://climb-utah.com/Roost/bluejohn1.htm (http://climb-utah.com/pr/bluejohn.htm)

Canyoneering USA also has Bluejohn Canyon, but not the section you are wanting to see, if the site where the accident took place is your main goal.

There are actually several sections of Bluejohn Canyon that aren't that hard to get into, if you can route find and find a map. Here's my son in there about a month before Aaron cut his arm off:

http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/885921.JPG

I wouldn't recommend doing the entire route in May though, unless you hit it during a cool spell. The slot sections should be pleasant in May.

I hope you find this information useful and wish you the best of luck on your trip.

[oldno7]

A troll? What the heck are you talking about? Obviously I have not been there or I wouldn't have to ask. Isn't that what these forums are for? To get a little advice? Also, everything I read says BlueJohn is in Canyonlands National Park. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_John_Canyon. So what's up with that? I know my son's abilities well, what I don't know is bluejohn canyon. Geeze.

I'm with you, Shaye.
Comments were way over the top.

[shaye]

Thanks all. Scott, thanks for the followup. Why is everyone saying Ralston did not come from the south? Here is a map from his book. He rides his bike from the north end all the way to the south end of bluejohn, then meets the girls, and hikes up towards the north.

79089

[Iceaxe]

Ralston came from the south to the north, which is DOWN stream. In your original post you said "up" which is where I think the confusion lies. South to north is traveling downstream.

I've done Bluejohn in every imaginable combination and option, what is it you want to do exactly? If it's just visit the place Ralston was trapped down to big drop and back out the top is the best route. If you want to actually retrace his route you have a lot of boring, hot, sandy slogging in your future.

[shaye]

Ralston came from the south to the north, which is DOWN stream. In your original post you said "up" which is where I think the confusion lies. South to north is traveling downstream.

I've done Bluejohn in every imaginable combination and option, what is it you want to do exactly? If it's just visit the place Ralston was trapped down to big drop and back out the top is the best route. If you want to actually retrace his route you have a lot of boring, hot, sandy slogging in your future.

Thanks. I am taking my son and two other adults, all of us are mediocre rock climbers. My primary goal is to see Ralston's rock. Other than that, just have a fun day as best we can. Would you recommend just doing the slot he was in? We will have a full day in. We are traveling down the night before. Waking up and heading in. We can camp in there and head home on day 3 or evening of day 2 depending on what we do.

Also, is there any good direction from getting off Hans Flat road to the canyon entrance? Not finding much detail on that. Thanks for your help!

[Slot Machine]

Comments were way over the top.

*shoots Red Bull out of my nose* :lol8:


Here's my son in there about a month before Aaron cut his arm off:

Dude, be careful @Scott P (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=213), people are gonna start calling you a bad-ass.

That is some work getting him there, and a LOT more work getting him out. WOW! :hail2thechief:


I've done Bluejohn in every imaginable combination and option,

I need photographic evidence that you have been through the Squeeze Fork, on account that you are twice my size. :mrgreen:

@shaye (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=26937) Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Have you ever been in a technical canyon? Avid hiker? Climber?

Posting a picture of you doing something cool will help us view you as a real person, and perhaps help us help you.

[Scott P]

My primary goal is to see Ralston's rock. Other than that, just have a fun day as best we can. Would you recommend just doing the slot he was in?

It's a long drive to just see the rock. I'm not sure if you can still tell which rock it is either. I think the signatures have been rubbed off? I haven't been recently.

If you want to see the rock, but see more of the canyon, go down the main fork, down to the Ralston section, and then exit the West Fork. That should be a good day hike. The East Fork is good, but longer.


Also, is there any good direction from getting off Hans Flat road to the canyon entrance? Not finding much detail on that.

I think the above two links have enough detail to get you there and I wouldn't know how to explain it better.

If you are still worried about finding the place, maybe ask here and someone could take you out there. I could probably do it if you want, but it will be getting really hot after early May.

[Slot Machine]

go down the main fork, down to the Ralston section, and then exit the West Fork. That should be a good day hike.

I've done this. It took us 12.5 hours, no shuttle. A good day hike? No. Hell in a handbasket? Yes.

But we were new to canyons, and quite slow. Could probably do that route in 7 hours now.

The West fork is pretty good and really easy. Perhaps consider going down West, down the Ralston narrows and out Horseshoe. With a shuttle of course.

Using this route, a big chunk of sand slog would be avoided (between Main and the Ralston Narrows).

[Scott P]

Dude, be careful @Scott P (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=213), people are gonna start calling you a bad-ass.

That is some work getting him there, and a LOT more work getting him out. WOW! :hail2thechief:

Actually my wife carried him in. :peepwall:

http://images.summitpost.org/original/53086.JPG

http://images.summitpost.org/original/935313.JPG

http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/935315.JPG

I just posed for the pictures.


http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/935316.JPG

[shaye]

*shoots Red Bull out of my nose* :lol8:



Dude, be careful @Scott P (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=213), people are gonna start calling you a bad-ass.

That is some work getting him there, and a LOT more work getting him out. WOW! :hail2thechief:



I need photographic evidence that you have been through the Squeeze Fork, on account that you are twice my size. :mrgreen:

@shaye (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=26937) Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Have you ever been in a technical canyon? Avid hiker? Climber?

Posting a picture of you doing something cool will help us view you as a real person, and perhaps help us help you.

I am an avid hiker. I usually pick about 3-5 peaks a year to summit. I have done some rock climbing, top rope and rappels mostly. I have done many extreme bouldering traverses and caving. Have never done a slot canyon though. Mostly been a mountaineer.

[Slot Machine]

Actually my wife carried him in. :peepwall:

LOL! Gotta take turns right? Here is a photo of Steph carrying John through Sulpher Creek. She went the distance, she just felt like carrying him that day.

....PLUS, she was pregnant! (we didn't know yet)

79090

[Slot Machine]

So shaye knows what he is looking at, here is my wife in West Bluejohn:

79091

Main Bluejohn:

79092

A tourist sitting on the Ralstone:

79093

Ralstone sans tourist:

79094

[Slot Machine]

I have done many extreme bouldering traverses

What is an extreme bouldering traverse?

(pictures?)

[Scott P]

LOL! Gotta take turns right?

That baby carrier never did fit me right, so she almost always carried him. The exception was when she was six months pregnant and we climbed the highest mountain in Costa Rica:

http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/44278.JPG

I remember it well, especially the first day since we did 7250 feet elevation gain on that first day. I remember it because I was carrying the kid up and she remembers it because she was six months pregnant at the time. For her first pregnancy, she crossed the Himalayas, in mid-winter, 216 miles on foot, while five months pregnant. That's getting way off topic though.

Now, back to Bluejohn.

Shaye, when are you planning on going? If you really want to see the chockstone, I could take you there, but early May or earlier is better.

Could you go, say, May 1-3?

[shaye]

Shaye, when are you planning on going? If you really want to see the chockstone, I could take you there, but early May or earlier is better.
Could you go, say, May 1-3?

Scott, that would be awesome. Let me check my schedule tomorrow.

[Iceaxe]

I need photographic evidence that you have been through the Squeeze Fork, on account that you are twice my size. :mrgreen:

I'm now thinner than you. I've lost 35 pounds since you last saw me. I'm nearing my old prime time canyoneering weight.

And for the record, not only have I been down the Squeeze, but I went up it first. :bootyshake:

[Iceaxe]

Shaye, when are you planning on going? If you really want to see the chockstone, I could take you there, but early May or earlier is better.

Scott for the win. :2thumbs:

[SRG]

The Ralston Route is great fun, you'll have a blast, it's a PITA arranging that heli-shuttle though. :haha:

[mzamp]

I've done this. It took us 12.5 hours, no shuttle. A good day hike? No. Hell in a handbasket? Yes.

But we were new to canyons, and quite slow. Could probably do that route in 7 hours now.

I took my GF on this route in April about 5 years ago. It was her second canyon. Anyway, I missed the west fork and went up the wrong place. I knew what direction the car was parked so I kept heading that way. We eventually could see the car, but had two valleys between us to descend and climb in very lose sand and running low on water on a Hot April afternoon. Was great fun though because now she's hooked. :-)

[Rob L]

"My primary goal is to see Ralston's rock"

I'm missing something here...has it turned into a tourist destination? The blood's all washed off by now.

Rob

(But nice pic of the high stuff, Scott :2thumbs:).

[Iceaxe]

I'm missing something here...has it turned into a tourist destination? The blood's all washed off by now.

It became a popular tourist attraction about 5 minutes after the first news reports hit the air.

The good news is many tourists changed their vacation plans when they discover it was two hours in on a rough dirt road and there where no RV hookups at the campground.

On an interesting side note I can look at the keywords folks use to surf into the Climb-Utah.com website. "Bluejohn", "Blue John" and "Ralston" are always in the top five most popular. "Zion" and "Subway" are usually the other two.

[Scott P]

It became a popular tourist attraction about 5 minutes after the first news reports hit the air.

I agree, but do you think interest is starting to wane? Bluejohn is still very popular, but it seems like visitation/interest may be declining?

[Iceaxe]

I agree, but do you think interest is starting to wane? Bluejohn is still very popular, but it seems like visitation/interest may be declining?

Interest certainly declined after the initial mass pounding of the first year or two. Interest has now reached a steady level over the past 5 years and I expect it to stay at that level for a long time. Interest in Bluejohn is 100 times any other canyon in the area, with the possible exception of Horseshoe, and that's all because of Ralston.


Horseshoe is kind of hard to judge because it's part of the Ralston story, it is a National Park, and it contains the Great Gallery, so it's hard to separate the interests shown in the canyon. But comparing Bluejohn to something like Larry Canyon, which was roughly it's equal before Ralston the difference in interest is staggering.

YMMV

[shaye]

No, but I could do it in two weeks. April 24-25 ish. How does that work?

[Scott P]

No, but I could do it in two weeks. April 24-25 ish. How does that work?

Unfortunately, I have a climb planned that week and already have a reservation at a backcountry hut. :sad:

I can send you a good map and description of how to get to the specific chockstone if you go on April 24-25.

[shaye]

Awesome. Please do. Thanks for all your help!!!

[Scott P]

Make sure to check your PM. II sent a bunch of information with some good maps.