going to moab in June. I've never been there before... Anything too good to miss?

[Kashmire]

So my 9 year old son and I are going to Moab, UT May 28th-June 2nd. We are signed up for a guided canyon tour and also plan to visit Arches and Canyonlands N.P. areas. Any suggestions of other somewhat technical but mostly dry canyons we can explore?

[Slot Machine]

So my 9 year old son and I are going to Moab, UT May 28th-June 2nd. We are signed up for a guided canyon tour and also plan to visit Arches and Canyonlands N.P. areas. Any suggestions of other somewhat technical but mostly dry canyons we can explore?

Yikes. A dad with that screen name... reeeeaaaaalllllly? :roll: :facepalm1:

I refuse to share knowledge with anyone who thinks of himself as Buster High Man.

Think of a new screen name (worthy of a grown man and this forum) and I will welcome you to Bogley.

[Scott P]

Any suggestions of other somewhat technical but mostly dry canyons we can explore?

You don't want mostly dry that time of year. Chances are it will be hot and miserable in dry areas, except in the early morning. Go for places that have water.

Fins and Things Slot isn't very technical (but still required basic rappel skills) and you can swim in the pools of Mill Creek on the way out. You can visit Professor Creek as well. Bull Canyon (the one above Moab along the Colorado, not the one below Moab) has only one rappel and you get to swim the Colorado (with life jackets). Also, lower Courthouse Wash, Negro Bill, and all of Mill Creek can be nice then.

[Kashmire]

The fact that you presume to know anything about me or my Screen name shines light on how judgmental and arrogant you are! I for one could care less if you approve sir! Good day to you
"Big Shot"

[Iceaxe]

You will be hunting for water in June. Here are a couple adventures kids love...

http://climb-utah.com/Moab/mill.htm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctWBHhSwV5Y


http://climb-utah.com/Moab/cowboyhottub.htm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_-0e1ssaUc


http://climb-utah.com/Moab/faux.htm

http://climb-utah.com/Moab/Files/fauxfalls06.jpg

[Kashmire]

Awesome thanks Iceaxe!

[Iceaxe]

In hot weather we usually do a canyon or hike in the cool early morning and head to one of the links I posted above in the heat of the afternoon.

[Iceaxe]

Yikes. A dad with that screen name... reeeeaaaaalllllly? :roll: :facepalm1:

I refuse to share knowledge with anyone who thinks of himself as Buster High Man.

Think of a new screen name (worthy of a grown man and this forum) and I will welcome you to Bogley.

Dang, you are turning into a grumpy old man.... I expect to drive by your house and see you standing out in front yelling at the kids... get off my lawn!

[Slot Machine]

The fact that you presume to know anything about me or my Screen name shines light on how judgmental and arrogant you are! I for one could care less if you approve sir! Good day to you
"Big Shot"

Hymen,

I know when I'm watching a dog drag his ass across my carpet with a smirk on his face.

*surprised Ice and Scott are playing along*

:popcorn:

[Slot Machine]

Dang, you are turning into a grumpy old man.... I expect to drive by your house and see you standing out in front yelling at the kids... get off my lawn!

... ... ... that's fair. :lol8:

The farciness of Bogley is a wonderful thing. However, screen names like C**tface McGee, F***stain, or PowerV**Fister cross the line into the land of 'poor taste'. They seem better suited for fantasy football teams, not this forum, IMO.

[Kashmire]

I will consider a more suitable name... You have managed to make me laugh from your moral high ground with the cantankerous nature of you opinionated perspective. I believe you are most likely a likeable fella!... I hope you'll continue to give it straight!

[Absolute Gravity]

...F***stain... They seem better suited for league champion fantasy football teams, not this forum, IMO.

:rockit:

[Slot Machine]

I remember that epic 2009 fantasy football season. Man you were awesome!

77970

[nkanarik]

"Fins and Things Slot isn't very technical (but still required basic rappel skills) and you can swim in the pools of Mill Creek on the way out. You can visit Professor Creek as well. Bull Canyon (the one above Moab along the Colorado, not the one below Moab) has only one rappel and you get to swim the Colorado (with life jackets). Also, lower Courthouse Wash, Negro Bill, and all of Mill Creek can be nice then."

Where can we get Beta for those canyons? Website? Book?

[Scott P]

Where can we get Beta for those canyons? Website? Book?

It's in the Moab Canyoneering book.

http://stores.sharpendbooks.com/moab-canyoneering-free-2-year-subscription-to-digital-edition-with-pre-purchase/

[moab mark]

IMO better off spending your money on Climb Utah. Get all of Moab plus a ton more. I wasn't that impressed with the Moab Canyoneering Book. YMMV

[Scott P]

The original question in the post I was responding to was only asking about Fins and Things, but it looks like the post was edited later. Climb-utah doesn't have Fins and Things at this time, thus the book suggestion.

Climb-Utah does have Professor Creek, Lower Courthouse, and Mill Creek.

No website I know of has Bull Canyon (which is strange, because it was the first technical canyon I did in Moab [years ago], and it seems like one of the most obvious technical canyons in the area), but I've made posts with the beta here on Bogley, so anyone who wants to can search for them.

[Iceaxe]

I plan to have Fins-n-Things added to Climb-Utah.com in the next couple of weeks. Everything worthwhile from the book will be on the website in the near future. Not to mention the dozens of items that are not in the book.

As for Bull Canyon, just because it's technical doesn't mean it's good, I figured if it was all that you would be doing yearly laps in the canyon with your family and posting pictures.

[Scott P]

As for Bull Canyon, just because it's technical doesn't mean it's good, I figured if it was all that you would be doing yearly laps in the canyon with your family and posting pictures.

I would say that it's pretty good for a Moab canyon (meaning it isn't as good as the North Wash, Roost, or Zion stuff). I would rate it much better than Cameltoe, better than Tierdrop and U-Turn, but about equal to Dragonfly and not as good as Rock of Ages or Undercover. I think that if you like the Moab canyons, that you would like it. Those who don't like the Moab canyons probably wouldn't like this one either. Perhaps more specifically, if you like Dragonfly, you will probably like Bull, and if don't like Dragonfly, you won't like Bull either.

The reason I haven't done it much is because I am seldom in Moab in summer and I don't swim the Colorado in winter. If you are in Moab in summer, it's probably one of the better choices.

[Iceaxe]

I think the reason routes like U-Turn and Teirdrop are so popular is that they are so convenient. They are only minutes from town and require no car shuttle, 4x4 or other riff-raff. Swimming the Colorado is a huge riff-raff barrier to your typical Moab canyoneer and I'm assuming Bull Canyon also requires a shuttle.

Honestly I've looked at establishing several routes that begin inside Arches and finish by swimming the Colorado. There are several excellent candidates for new routes. But the logistics just didn't make a lot of sense to me and I knew they would never become trade routes no matter how awesome the tech section was. They just require too much trouble.

[Scott P]

I think the reason routes like U-Turn and Teirdrop are so popular is that they are so convenient.

I agree. I was just using the canyons for comparison. They aren't bad routes and the views are good.


Swimming the Colorado is a huge riff-raff barrier to your typical Moab canyoneer and I'm assuming Bull Canyon also requires a shuttle.

You could use a shuttle (we didn't), but it's not a long road walk/bike. In summer, we could wade half way across and then do the swim, which was refreshing since it was on a hot July 4th day. The river would be higher in June.

I just mentioned as a good summer one in case anyone is interested since many Moab routes are not pleasant then (I assume June might be too early for Pleiades). Personally, I think you would like the route, but those do don't like the Moab canyons wouldn't. I just made it as a suggestion for summer, but no one has to do it.

[nkanarik]

Thanks Scott and Shane. I'm a big fan of climb-Utah, and already a member. I'll wait for Shane to update the site :)

[xxnitsuaxx]

Think of a new screen name (worthy of a grown man and this forum) and I will welcome you to Bogley.


Buster - you shouldn't give a rat's ass if Slot Machine here "welcomes" you to Bogley or not. Homeboy seems to derive way too much of his self-identity from being a wannabe badass canyoneer whose main contributions seem to be arrogance and contrived pedantry. Most of the people on here are pretty welcoming - you learn to tune out SM's noise pretty quickly.

[Iceaxe]

I plan to be in Moab March 7th and 8th doing some canyons and rock art that I can add to Climb-Utah.com. If anyone wants to join us for a route or two let me know. A couple of the routes I want to do require a car shuttle so an additional body or two would be helpful as well as welcome. These would all be routes and rock art not yet on my website.

[Kashmire]

I am looking forward to the rappels really, I mean I have spent the last 3 months buying gear for my son and myself. We want to use it! However, we are beginners and I don't feel 100% comfortable doing anything too technical (pothole escape, deep water, etc...) especially with my son. We are signed up to do "Land Before Time Canyon" with a guide, but we will be down there for like 10 days and would like to venture out a bit on our own. So bull canyon sounds cool we'll look into it. I have some general maps of Canyonlands NP and Glen Canyon Wilderness Area, but cant find much info on any potential spots to go. Does that area have any good ones?

[Kashmire]

Wish I could! Iowa is 18 hrs away. I'll check Climb-Utah.com (http://Climb-Utah.com). out, Is the "circle of friends" where to go for maps and route descriptions?

[Iceaxe]

Approximately 40% of Climb-Utah.com is free. The remaining 60% is pay-per-view, which is accessed by a Circle of Friends membership.

[Kashmire]

With the "Circle of Friends" membership, are there more technical canyon maps available? Something that lists rappel sizes and presence of potholes and whatnot.

[Iceaxe]

A circle of friends membership gets you complete maps, GPS waypoints, detailed route descriptions driving directions, required ropes and any special instructions required. In short it gives anyone with a little commonsense everything they need to know about the route.

[moab mark]

I am looking forward to the rappels really, I mean I have spent the last 3 months buying gear for my son and myself. We want to use it! However, we are beginners and I don't feel 100% comfortable doing anything too technical (pothole escape, deep water, etc...) especially with my son. We are signed up to do "Land Before Time Canyon" with a guide, but we will be down there for like 10 days and would like to venture out a bit on our own. So bull canyon sounds cool we'll look into it. I have some general maps of Canyonlands NP and Glen Canyon Wilderness Area, but cant find much info on any potential spots to go. Does that area have any good ones?

Which guide Service are you going with?

[Kashmire]

A circle of friends membership gets you complete maps, GPS waypoints, detailed route descriptions driving directions, required ropes and any special instructions required. In short it gives anyone with a little commonsense everything they need to know about the route.

Awesome! that's exactly what I'm looking for! With the best maps I've found online so far I still felt like I was going in blind. 70,000:1 is the most detailed I have found so far, granted I haven't searched too hard yet I'm still 3 months out.

[Kashmire]

Which guide Service are you going with?

Windgate Adventures... I found their website to be very user friendly! the canyons all have pretty detailed descriptions, as far as how many rappels and how big they are. "Eric" got back to me pretty quick. I hope I made a good choice, so far I think I did.

[Iceaxe]

We are signed up to do "Land Before Time Canyon" with a guide,

Also known as Rock of Ages and Pool Arch. It's a fun route.

Rock of Ages
http://climb-utah.com/Moab/rockofages.htm

Here is a video of the canyon from the last Moab Bogley-fest. Lot's of Bogley members in this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZ1k9lsFLc

[moab mark]

So Commercial Guides can take groups thru the Furnace but they can't take Canyoneers? I'll bet there were some heated conversations between Matt and the Park when they kicked them out.

[deagol]

they charge $90 ???
"This is the only area in Arches that requires a professional guide. "

it's been several years since I have been in the FF, but if the above is correct, you can't go in there by yourself anymore (even after getting the permit) ??

[Kuya]

Is this for real? I thought that guiding in ANP was illegal...:crazycobasa:

78115

[Iceaxe]

Where are you guys seeing commercial guiding is allowed inside the Fiery Furnace?

[deagol]

according to this from the ANP website

http://www.nps.gov/arch/learn/photosmultimedia/ffpermitvideo.htm

Deserts are a lot more fragile and full of life than you might expect. The Fiery Furnace is a particularly special place within Arches National Park, which requires a ranger-led tour or special day-use permit (http://www.nps.gov/arch/planyourvisit/fiery-furnace.htm) to visit.

All persons entering the Fiery Furnace on a day-use hiking permit are required to watch this video at Arches Visitor Center at the time the permit is obtained. Please note: watching it online in advance will not waive that requirement.


something seems strange...



Where are you guys seeing commercial guiding is allowed inside the Fiery Furnace?

look at the webpage Blake posted above..
http://windgateadventures.com/fiery-furnace/

[Iceaxe]

You guys have me lost... snd I'm on my phone so I can't do a lot of searching... but I can tell you commercial guiding is not allowed inside Arches. I'm not sure what you are reading but it's in error or you are misinterpreting

[deagol]

...... I'm not sure what you are reading but it's in error or you are misinterpreting



It's from the Wingate Adventures website:

Fiery Furnace Guided Hike in Arches National Park

$90 per person (2 person minimum, 15 person maximum)

15% additional charge for a chartered private tour. Group rates available, Please call (435) 260-9802

The Fiery Furnace is an intricate maze of thin sandstone formations creating narrow slot style canyons. This is the only area in Arches that requires a professional guide. There is no trail and you are encouraged to accompany your guide both for your safety and to diminish impacts on the delicate landscape you will be traveling through.



they also have a rate for taking people rappelling off of Corona Arch
http://windgateadventures.com/rates/

[Kuya]

Ice, I agree with you. If that website is true, and they are guiding in the FF, sounds like they need to be notified that they are doing things illegally. (unless things have changed with the park...?)

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: Commercial Tours are allowed to operate inside Arches, but that is a bit different. That's the big van that picks you up at your hotel and takes you to Delicate Arch and the Windows. Tours have always been allowed. Wingate Adventures is on the list for approved commercial tours, which means they could pick you up at your hotel and hand hold you to the parking lot and get you on the ranger tour.

[Kashmire]

FWIW: Commercial Tours are allowed to operate inside Arches, but that is a bit different. That's the big van that picks you up at your hotel and takes you to Delicate Arch and the Windows. Tours have always been allowed. Wingate Adventures is on the list for approved commercial tours, which means they could pick you up at your hotel and hand hold you to the parking lot and get you on the ranger tour.

I signed up for a full day at land before time...

[Kashmire]

I signed up for a full day at land before time...

Where is land before time located?

[Scott P]

Where is land before time located?

Behind the Rocks, just south of Moab and on the east side of the Colorado.

[Kashmire]

I signed up for a full day at land before time...


Behind the Rocks, just south of Moab and on the east side of the Colorado.

Is Windgate Adventures legit?... Has anyone else heard of them?

[Iceaxe]

I assume Wingate Adventures is legit as they are listed with the Moab Chamber of Commerce. I don't know anything about them.

The only Moab guide service I have any experience with is Desert Highlights. I have canyoneered with the owner Matt and I highly recommend them. I believe they are also Moabs first and oldest canyon guide service.

[Scott P]

I am also unfamiliar with the company, but they do get good reviews:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g60724-d2661755-Reviews-Windgate_Adventures-Moab_Utah.html

[moab mark]

I see commercial vans in the parking lot all the time. As I understand they do guided hikes in the furnace. They are there when not another vehicle is around. I do not think they are going with the Rangers?

[moab mark]

I just called the back country desk at Arches. They have a permit to guide privately.

[Kashmire]

I see commercial vans in the parking lot all the time. As I understand they do guided hikes in the furnace. They are there when not another vehicle is around. I do not think they are going with the Rangers?

I believe they are legit. I am not sure about the furnace but I am a conservation biologist as a hobby and definitely don't want to be disturbing protected soil or anything like that. Which I am assuming is why its closed? I also don't wanna be making waves for the guy. Judging by the reviews he has plenty of reverence for the ecosystem in the region.

[Kashmire]

This trip is me and my son's "Big Adventure"... We have planned for a long time, my cousin was supposed to join us but fell ill and unable to go. We just want to make the most of it. I am hoping to instill some interest in my son (Zayne) for the outdoors and our ever diminishing wild places. He already loves hiking and backpacking with me so the task should be easy with the beauty Utah has to offer!

[moab mark]

We're not knocking Wingate I'm sure they're legit. There is a lot of history about commercial guiding in Arches. Guides use to be able to take you Canyoneering in the Park. They all lost their permits a few years ago. That's why we're all shocked they are able to take you thru the Furnace.

[Kashmire]

I see.

[Scott P]

PS, why do you have that user name?

[Kashmire]

PS, why do you have that user name?

Ha... I admit that I was trying to be cleverly inappropriate. I'm not a perv or a womanizer. I thought it was funny and didn't expect to offend anyone. Now I cant figure out how to change it. Bottom line though, regardless of my screen name, "Slot Machine" has no right to put me down as a parent! Then to cold shoulder a newbie on valuable possibly "life saving" information based on a screen name (as dumb as it may be). Defeats everything I think forums like this are about. Or are only people who morally agree with each other allowed to enjoy our wilderness areas safely? I for one encourage everyone to see the value of such places. Even other immature crude humored freaks like me!

[Kashmire]

gigity gigity

[Slot Machine]

Most of the people on here are pretty welcoming - you learn to tune out SM's noise pretty quickly.

Your fascination with me is creepy. Man, I don’t even think about you.

The last time I DID think about you, I was laughing my guts out.... I remember @ratagonia (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=32) extinguishing your own celebratory cigar on your forehead, after you spent some time publicly making out with your Chacos then blowing smoke up your own ass.

How can you show your face after this level of burn? -


Shoes? Are people still using shoes? Jeesh, you can't REALLY experience the canyon if you're wearing shoes - the TRUE experience can only be had by going barefoot!

I've done Imlay, Sandthrax, Frosted Flakes, The Narrows, Pandoras, Poe, Happy Cricket, Smiling Dog and 133 secret canyons on Lake Powells last week in my bare feet. Heck, my group did Heaps down AND up in our bare feet. When the feet start hurting, we just walk on our hands for a couple miles and let the feet recover.

Tom

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?71806-Which-shoes

But thanks for thinkin' of me and stopping by! :lol8: :2thumbs:

[Slot Machine]

Ha... I admit that I was trying to be cleverly inappropriate. I'm not a perv or a womanizer. I thought it was funny and didn't expect to offend anyone. Now I cant figure out how to change it. Bottom line though, regardless of my screen name, "Slot Machine" has no right to put me down as a parent! Then to cold shoulder a newbie on valuable possibly "life saving" information based on a screen name (as dumb as it may be). Defeats everything I think forums like this are about. Or are only people who morally agree with each other allowed to enjoy our wilderness areas safely? I for one encourage everyone to see the value of such places. Even other immature crude humored freaks like me!

Hey Hymen, if I crapped in a forum that you like, I'd expect you to get after me. Keep the crapping to a minimum. That's all I'm sayin. Once you post a bunch of good content, then you can walk around in your underwear. Can't do that on your first day. Right?

I like that you can take a punch. And that you have a sense of humor.

Contact accadacca or sombeech and they can change your screen name.

[nkanarik]

Awesome! that's exactly what I'm looking for! With the best maps I've found online so far I still felt like I was going in blind. 70,000:1 is the most detailed I have found so far, granted I haven't searched too hard yet I'm still 3 months out.

One word of caution...I find the maps on Climb-Utah low resolution if you want to navigate with them in a hard terrain. I use CalTopo.com (free) to regenerate those maps for higher resolution / scale. If you use a GPS, then should be ok. Having said that...I LOVE Climb-Utah and it has a lot to offer besides map. I subscribe every year even if I don't need it, just as an appreciation to the work Shane have done there

[Kashmire]

Hey Hymen, if I crapped in a forum that you like, I'd expect you to get after me. Keep the crapping to a minimum. That's all I'm sayin. Once you post a bunch of good content, then you can walk around in your underwear. Can't do that on your first day. Right?

I like that you can take a punch. And that you have a sense of humor.

Contact accadacca or sombeech and they can change your screen name.

Yeah? Well how about; Slot Buster, Richard Driver, or Mr Phister?... just kidding ;)

[xxnitsuaxx]

[QUOTE=Slot Machine;567157]Your fascination with me is creepy. Man, I don

[Kashmire]

I think I am all stocked up on gear now for our trip... helmets, harnesses, rope, pull rope, webbing, piranha, ATC big air xp, fiddlestick, biners, prusik stuff, bags, shoes, appropriate clothes, camera... odds and ends... anything of notable value I'm missing?... Ohh and water, maps, compass

[Brian in SLC]

I think I am all stocked up on gear now for our trip... helmets, harnesses, rope, pull rope, webbing, piranha, ATC big air xp, fiddlestick, biners, prusik stuff, bags, shoes, appropriate clothes, camera... odds and ends... anything of notable value I'm missing?... Ohh and water, maps, compass

Maybe a couple three shoulder length slings with biners to match. A tether per person.

Fiddlestick? Hmmm. Not sure I'd recommend that item for your kit.

[Kashmire]

Maybe a couple three shoulder length slings with biners to match. A tether per person.

Fiddlestick? Hmmm. Not sure I'd recommend that item for your kit.

I appreciate your advice, and I am curious if you are making this recommendation because I am a "newb"... I just want to say that I completely understand. I also have to say, (and this may not help me any) that I work as an industrial maintenance tech. Everyday I make life or death decisions that involve double and triple safety checks. This includes fall protection, high voltage electricity, stored energy hazards, etc... I know it probably looks like nonsense words on the screen to you but... in reality its not. A mistake = death or amputation. Further I am in a profession where not so common common sense has put me in a lead position. Now I know these are totally unrelated but I have heard it expressed many times that canyoneering is not a dangerous sport when done slowly and methodically. I am not looking to jumping in to a 4C III RX I am trying to start it slow and be smart. I have a guided tour to do our first time and from there I feel confident to ease into this sport. I bought the gear for a reason, to be safe and efficient and not disturb the beauty of this magnificent place we are going! I practiced non stop since the beginning of making the plans for this trip. I'm ready for my last training session (the guided tour)... I have been eating sleeping and breathing nothing but this trip for 3 months. Caution comes second nature to me. I also can say that my trip is May 28-June 2 any experienced canyoneers want to join us and make sure I don't have any bad habits you are welcome to. I'll guarantee you that you'll never meet a more appreciative student! And when we are done I'll buy dinner and the cold beer!

[Kashmire]

Ohh and did I mention that I have a strong back for carrying gear! ;)

[Brian in SLC]

I wouldn't recommend a fiddlestick to some of advanced abilities/experienced either. Just not a fan of it. Still can't get my head around retailers selling it.

Also not a fan of your pull cord and rappelling single strand either, but, folks follow what the cool kids are doing. Kinda wonder if the SRT rappelling is more responsible for the rope grooves seen on all the popular canyons in Zion...dunno.... Two ropes tied together with a "euro death knot" don't seem as likely to get stuck versus the bulky biner block/pull cord combo, IMHO (and, as seen recently in Zion). Not as much margin if something happens to your single rappel rope.

So, I'd recommend two rappel ropes and no pull cord. But, I'm probably not in the majority.

Cheers.

[Kashmire]

I wouldn't recommend a fiddlestick to some of advanced abilities/experienced either. Just not a fan of it. Still can't get my head around retailers selling it.

Also not a fan of your pull cord and rappelling single strand either, but, folks follow what the cool kids are doing. Kinda wonder if the SRT rappelling is more responsible for the rope grooves seen on all the popular canyons in Zion...dunno.... Two ropes tied together with a "euro death knot" don't seem as likely to get stuck versus the bulky biner block/pull cord combo, IMHO (and, as seen recently in Zion). Not as much margin if something happens to your single rappel rope.

So, I'd recommend two rappel ropes and no pull cord. But, I'm probably not in the majority.

Cheers.

Thanks for the advice I'll take in all I can and use my best judgment when the time comes... I just want to be as safe and efficient as possible... though it seems one sacrifices to the other

[TommyBoy]

As someone who is a fan of the fiddlestick, I would say its a great tool to learn to use and certainly has its uses, although as a beginner you are unlikely to find a need for it in any of the canyons you will be visiting. Take it with since its light and small, play around with setting it up and see how it interacts with the environment, but then put it back in the pack and rappel without it.

It sounds like you are a methodical and careful person, but there's no reason to rush into the advanced techniques especially when they won't be needed where you're going. Why complicate things and add in another possible point of failure when you're just starting out?

[Rob L]

I wouldn't recommend a fiddlestick to some of advanced abilities/experienced either. Just not a fan of it. ....

and


...rope grooves....

But Shirley the fiddlestick (and other similar devices) reduce rope grooves? Perhaps I'm confused by your post, Brian.


...SRT.... I don't know that term so perhaps my responses above are not relevant, but upon review, I'll post anyway.

(My snips of Brian's post at the "..." points)

Rob (very inexperienced canyoneer; just curious)

[Iceaxe]

SRT = Single Rope Technique = rappel rope, biner block and pull chord.

[Kashmire]

Maybe it is a ignorant "newbie" way of thinking, but I didn't buy this gear to leave Junking up the scenery. I intend to try and retrieve as much as often as possible. Now I assume there will be times when webbing will have to be left behind for cleaner/smoother rope pulls. For the most part though I don't want to leave gear behind! I guess take each situation as it comes?

[TommyBoy]

Not leaving gear behind is a very admirable desire, and the FS definitely helps with that, however in most beginner and even intermediate level canyons the anchors will already be there since a lot of canyoneers either don't know or don't feel comfortable with ghosting techniques.

[Iceaxe]

You are going to be doing trade routes, which will already have well established anchors. It is important that you inspect the anchors and replace anything you find fault with, but removing or relocating trade route anchors would be frowned upon.

Until you begin doing explorations or advanced routes you can leave the fiddle stick at home, and even when you begin doing explorations or advanced canyons a fiddle stick is not my preferred or go-to tool.

[ratagonia]

You are going to be doing trade routes, which will already have well established anchors. It is important that you inspect the anchors and replace anything you find fault with, but removing or relocating trade route anchors would be frowned upon.

Until you begin doing explorations or advanced routes you can leave the fiddle stick at home, and even when you begin doing explorations or advanced canyons a fiddle stick is not my preferred or go-to tool.

Trade Route Canyons: tend to have anchors in place. Not always in the best place, and often poorly rigged. Often many many slings, all but one of which can and should be removed.

If the anchor you come to makes no sense or seems in a bad place, please consider quite a few reasons for it to be where it is. Perhaps there is water to avoid. Perhaps ... lots of things, but one reason anchors are in places is because people made poor choices. In any case, it is ALWAYS up to YOU to assure that the anchor for YOUR party is 100%. And best if what you leave behind is as good as possible, and as clean as possible. Trade Route Canyons are a good place to accumulate a collection of circus-colored webbing. Collect one of EACH color!

Some people find the FiddleStick a useful tool, and some people don't.

Tom :moses:

[Absolute Gravity]

Buster High Man :roll:


Maybe it is a ignorant "newbie" way of thinking, but I didn't buy this gear to leave Junking up the scenery. I intend to try and retrieve as much as often as possible. Now I assume there will be times when webbing will have to be left behind for cleaner/smoother rope pulls. For the most part though I don't want to leave gear behind! I guess take each situation as it comes?

This is your first time out, and it is with a 9 yr old. Do not take each situation as it comes. Plan meticulously and know what you are doing every step of the way as best you can.

Don’t worry about ghosting. Don’t worry about leaving ANY trace. There is ZERO reason for you to be using a fiddlestick. Go have some fun with your son and worry about ghosting canyons for another time. Iceaxe had some great recommendations.

If you really want to play around with a fiddlestick, fine. Do like Tommy said and experiment with it then put it away and rappel safely.

I hope you and your son have shit tons of fun.

// ************************************************** ****************
// ignore if you like

Now... god damn I hate being this preachy, but……the username, it super sucks. And keep in mind this is the rowdier of the canyoneering forums.


The fact that you presume to know anything about me or my Screen name shines light on how judgmental and arrogant you are! I for one could care less if you approve sir! Good day to you
"Big Shot"

I’m sure that in some universe it is perfectly reasonable for a person to use ‘Buster High Man’ as a screen name on a site such as this, that does not include a sub-forum of porn featuring 15 yr olds, to not be presumed a total dickbag. This is not that universe, and this is not rapeymcdickbagsdocanyoneering.com, yet here you are. Buster High Man. Gigantic dickbag.

Your posts, however, seem to say you are not a gigantic dickbag. :ne_nau: You should change your username. Now get off my lawn.



Yeah? Well how about; Slot Buster, Richard Driver, or Mr Phister?... just kidding ;)

All of those suck, and yet even then, you chose ‘Buster High Man’. What might I presume?


**** me that made me feel old. Also, didn't I tell you to get off my lawn?

[Iceaxe]

Trade Route Canyons: tend to have anchors in place. Not always in the best place, and often poorly rigged. Often many many slings, all but one of which can and should be removed.

While I agree noobs have a bad habit of adding more webbing as a feeling of security the trade routes tend to have responsibly well placed anchors.

I mean seriously....., when I do Pine Creek, Mystery, Dragon Fly, U-turn, etc I certainly don't consider the anchors poorly placed. In my experience the trade routes see enough skilled canyoneers traversing the routes that the anchors tend to be well placed. The main problems seem to appear when noobs rebuild the anchors and fail to extend the rappel rings over the edge. YMMV

[Kashmire]

Buster High Man :roll:



This is your first time out, and it is with a 9 yr old. Do not take each situation as it comes. Plan meticulously and know what you are doing every step of the way as best you can.

Don’t worry about ghosting. Don’t worry about leaving ANY trace. There is ZERO reason for you to be using a fiddlestick. Go have some fun with your son and worry about ghosting canyons for another time. Iceaxe had some great recommendations.

If you really want to play around with a fiddlestick, fine. Do like Tommy said and experiment with it then put it away and rappel safely.

I hope you and your son have shit tons of fun.

// ************************************************** ****************
// ignore if you like

Now... god damn I hate being this preachy, but……the username, it super sucks. And keep in mind this is the rowdier of the canyoneering forums.



I’m sure that in some universe it is perfectly reasonable for a person to use ‘Buster High Man’ as a screen name on a site such as this, that does not include a sub-forum of porn featuring 15 yr olds, to not be presumed a total dickbag. This is not that universe, and this is not rapeymcdickbagsdocanyoneering.com, yet here you are. Buster High Man. Gigantic dickbag.

Your posts, however, seem to say you are not a gigantic dickbag. :ne_nau: You should change your username. Now get off my lawn.




All of those suck, and yet even then, you chose ‘Buster High Man’. What might I presume?

**** me that made me feel old. Also, didn't I tell you to get off my lawn?

I hit up "sombeech" about changing it so... idk... ?... I am surprised that this many of you care... I am extremely grateful for your advice though... wish I could pick all your brains!... Thanks again!

[Iceaxe]

I hit up "sombeech" about changing it so... idk... ?... I am surprised that this many of you care... I am extremely grateful for your advice though... wish I could pick all your brains!... Thanks again!
I have no problem with you username, but than again, i wasn't raised as a whiny candyass pussy.

[Absolute Gravity]

I have no problem with you username, but than again, i wasn't raised as a whiny candyass pussy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r14rozZDzrM

[Kashmire]

I have no problem with you username, but than again, i wasn't raised as a whiny candyass pussy.

Ha!!!

[Scott P]

I appreciate your advice, and I am curious if you are making this recommendation because I am a "newb"..

Whether or not people are a fan of the fiddlestick or not, here is what the website says about it, with the important words in red:

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/techtips/fiddlestick/

The FiddleStick – An Advanced Anchor Tool for Canyoneering


The FiddleStick is an advanced canyoneering anchor tool.

As an ADVANCED anchor tool, it requires skill, practice and understanding to use safely. Even when used properly, it has the possibility of failing, resulting in severe injury or death, or being stranded in a canyon with your ropes hopelessly stuck.


While it is possible to use the FiddleStick on traderoute canyons, to not contribute to deeper rope grooves or make some pulls easier, it really shines on first descents and in rarely-travelled backcountry canyons where it is of substantial benefit to not leave junk behind.

The above description makes FiddleSticking seem pretty simple. Sometimes it is; sometimes it is not.

I mean no offence and nobody's perfect, but why would anyone who has zero experience (or perhaps one guided canyon by then) and whom is with a nine year old consider themselves to be an advanced canyoneer? :ne_nau:

[Iceaxe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r14rozZDzrM

LMAO - Cotton was always my favorite on that show, my father was like him in many ways. Now STFU and go get me a beer.

[Kashmire]

Ok... Again I don't want to come off rude or unappreciative of advice, but I haven't claimed anything but to have a crude sense of humor. It was a piece of gear and I bought it. To be honest I don't find the concept complicated at all. It's dangerous sure. I don't have to use it, kinda like my pistol, I don't want to use it but it's there if I need. skills are earned through practice. Which is why I am on here with all the experts, asking strangers to join us. I know I don't know shit, I plan to keep it basic as possible, only implementing enough complicity as each situation requires. Someday my skills will be advanced and I will go off the beaten path fiddlestick and all.

[Absolute Gravity]

Which is why I am on here with all the experts

And the rest of us too.


It was a piece of gear and I bought it.

Said every canyoneer EVER :crazy:. I have some pieces of gear that have only had action from the branch of a maple tree. Nothing wrong with that.

Good luck with your trip.

[Absolute Gravity]

LMAO - Cotton was always my favorite on that show, my father was like him in many ways. Now STFU and go get me a beer.

Real men drink pothole water. Tastes fine.

[Slot Machine]

I don't have to use it, kinda like my pistol, I don't want to use it but it's there if I need.

You won't need a Fiddlestick. The second you realize how little you need it, it will be too late.

Then you will have to sit in Hell for the rest of eternity, listening to Hitler make fun of you! -


78142

[Kuya]

slotmachine That is probably the best cartoon you ever put together! Makes me laugh EVERY TIME!

[Kashmire]

You won't need a Fiddlestick. The second you realize how little you need it, it will be too late.

Then you will have to sit in Hell for the rest of eternity, listening to Hitler make fun of you! -


78142

You all really are some of my favorite people! :)

[deagol]

I always knew Lance belonged in hell.....

[Iceaxe]

Just so you know... I think you're a real candyass giving into peer pressure like that, next you will be smoking pot and doing graffiti. And you could probably kick Slot Machines butt, he just likes to pretend he has a huge ePenis when he's playing on the interwebs down in his mom's basement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQH3LtNePgI

[Kashmire]

Just so you know... I think you're a real candyass giving into peer pressure like that, next you will be smoking pot and doing graffiti. And you could probably kick Slot Machines butt, he just likes to pretend he has a huge ePenis when he's playing on the interwebs down in his mom's basement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQH3LtNePgI

I do feel a bit like a pussy for changing it, I half wondered if you ****ers were taking bets...Lol

[SRG]

When you log into Bogley and see there is a thread regarding the best canyons to do in Moab in June and it's five pages long... that can only mean one thing.

:popcorn:

[Absolute Gravity]

When you log into Bogley and see there is a thread regarding the best canyons to do in Moab in June and it's five pages long... that can only mean one thing.

:popcorn:

That your mom is vacationing in Moab in June? :naughty:

[Slot Machine]

When you log into Bogley and see there is a thread regarding the best canyons to do in Moab in June and it's five pages long... that can only mean one thing.

:popcorn:

That your mom discovered a show-don't-tell canyon?? :haha:

[Absolute Gravity]

That your mom discovered a show-don't-tell canyon?? :haha:

Nah, everybody seen that canyon.

[Slot Machine]

Just so you know... I think you're a real candyass giving into peer pressure like that, next you will be smoking pot and doing graffiti. And you could probably kick Slot Machines butt

Every. Single. Person. on this forum could kick my butt.

Even the 4 ladies that have the balls to post here. @tanya (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=146) @hesse15 (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=172) @Felicia (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=3295) @Simple (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=20645) :hail2thechief:

Congratulations on not posting with a really gross name. Tips my hat to you Kashmire.

78143

WELCOME TO BOGLEY.

[SRG]

Aaaand in retrospect I may have set myself(and my mom?) up for that, just a little bit. :lol8:

[Iceaxe]

I plan to have Fins-n-Things added to Climb-Utah.com in the next couple of weeks. Everything worthwhile from the book will be on the website in the near future. Not to mention the dozens of items that are not in the book.

Fins & Things is now up: http://climb-utah.com/Moab/finsandthings.htm

And my route description includes all the cool stuff the book missed. I really wouldn't have thought much of the route if it didn't pass next to three really good panels of rock art that the book missed and/or never mentions. If it was not for the rock art I'd consider the route just filler material.

The funny thing is I'd searched for the Many Hands pictograph panel a couple times before and never been able to locate it, but the Fins & Things route passes right by it if you know where to look.

78402

If anyone has done SGR, Sunseed or Moon Flower from the book hit me up side band.

:bert: