Kivas in the San Rafael Swell?

[Scott P]

I have found small ruins scattered throughout the Swell and many pictograph and petroglyph panels, but I've never seen any Kivas anywhere near there.

Does this place really exist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruin_Arch

Hoax?

[Iceaxe]

I found this place in the San Rafael Swell:
http://climb-utah.com/SRS/grassyknoll.htm

I'm not exactly sure what the ruin is, but it's similar to a kiva. I have been told archaeologists studied the ruin and found evidence of occupation from Archaic to Piute (modern) times.

http://climb-utah.com/SRS/Files/grassyknoll04.jpg

http://climb-utah.com/SRS/Files/grassyknoll07.jpg

[Scott P]

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought that ruin as a Kiva, but I guess it could be.

[phatch]

This is over in Canyonlands according to the photographer's site. No mention of a kiva

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The San Rafael is a bit Northwest from traditional areas for the Anasazi and primary kiva culture. Sure there was overlap and they all used pithouses which are thought to be the precursor of the kiva structure. As noted in the Wiki link, this is Fremont terrain. The Fremont didn't really settle on farming but switched back and forth from Farming to Hunting/Gathering. But they list "elaborate kivas" in Range Creek which is Fremont and certainly more farming oriented. Kiva culture is more suited to a fixed site lifestyle like the farming in Range Creek. The San Rafael was not so well suited to that from what I've seen there.

[Udink]

If you look at the Wikipedia article history (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ruin_Arch&action=history), it seems that it was written by Jon Bailey, who also goes by the name Coinslab here on Bogley. Almost everything he's written comes across to me as aggrandizing.

Anyhow, Ruin Arch is in Buckhorn Wash near where it starts to cut down into the upper layers of Navajo Sandstone. The "kiva" is a pile of poorly-stacked rocks that were probably put there by some kids playing around. There is some rock art in the arch, though.

"Kiva"
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Torrey in Ruin Arch
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Petroglyph in Ruin Arch
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Petroglyph in Ruin Arch
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[Udink]

I found this place in the San Rafael Swell:
http://climb-utah.com/SRS/grassyknoll.htm
My guess about this structure is that it was built either by railroad workers or sheepherders. A narrow-gauge rail line used to run right past there before they replaced it with the standard-gauge line farther north. I've also seen maybe a dozen other rock structures along the creek that are definitely attributable to sheepherders and railroad workers (they left fences, corrals, and a lot of trash behind), although there are also a few Indian structures as well.

[Iceaxe]

I'd have to dig up my paper work on the structure but one of the universities claims it's native American. The only reason I might argue in that direction is there are dozens of petroglyphs near the structure. It's also at the confluence of two streams and might have been used as some type of lookout while hunting or it could be gringo... I don't really have a dog in this fight... it's interesting to visit and ponder where it came from.

[Brian in SLC]

This is over in Canyonlands according to the photographer's site. No mention of a kiva

77614


Hmmm...was just there...yeah, no kiva.

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