Nov 14-16 Frost Fest Canyoneering Gathering?

[Scott P]

I was thinking of organizing another informal canyoneering gathering. Last time, we called it Frost Fest since the weather usually isn't as cold in mid-November as it is during Freeze Fest.

Would anyone be interested?

Last time we went to North Wash and could do that again, but we could also do something like Robbers Roost, Capitol Reef, Angel Cove area, Ticaboo, or Lost Springs area.

Robbers Roost will likely have some wet and muddy canyons, but some of them, such as the North Fork Robbers Roost, White Roost, and West/Main Forks Bluejohn tend to stay dry.

I haven't done anything technical in the main part of Capitol Reef (but have farther south in the Waterpocket Fold), so that might be nice for me. I assume the Wives or Cassidy might be reasonable late season?

The Angel Cove area has some nice slots that should be good late season, but they do tend to be on the short side.

The Ticaboo area should be good and for those that don't want to camp, the Ticaboo Lodge does have some pretty good rates late season.

The Lost Springs area is good to visit late season, but there doesn't seem to be much out there in the way of larger campsites (it does have scattered small ones though).

Thoughts?

[peakbaggers]

Not sure if we can attend but it's a possibility. Here are a few thoughts on yours:
North Wash - most variety of canyons in a short distance & one of the best campsites.
Robbers Roost - was drier than expected. We did Alcatraz & Mindbender last weekend and at the most had upper thigh water - & not much overall. Large camp area at Granary Springs is relatively convenient. No convenient lodging.
Capitol Reef - several shorter canyons for shorter daylight hours, nice campground with a special group site away from other campers; lodging is close by for non-campers. Wives & Cassidy would be excellent choices but other options available.
Mini-slots/Angel - plenty of short choices. Lodging only in Hanksville. Camping options are limited & not very attractive unless you work out of Sandthrax.
Ticaboo - plenty of canyons to choose from. Attractive large group camping options limited from what I know of?
Lost Spring - limited number of canyons, large campsite choices limited but on the north side of the main canyon there may be a possibility.
Not mentioned: The Swell - which we found to be on the wet side & will probably continue that way
Cedar Mesa - perhaps too far for some, haven't seen any recent reports on the main canyons there but plenty of choices; no close lodging but fairly large group type campsite near Fry with some pinyon/juniper trees.
Just some thoughts.

[Scott P]

Thanks for the input.


Cedar Mesa - perhaps too far for some, haven't seen any recent reports on the main canyons there but plenty of choices; no close lodging but fairly large group type campsite near Fry with some pinyon/juniper trees.

I didn't put it on the list since most canyons are wet (at least the ones I've done) and at higher elevation.


Not mentioned: The Swell - which we found to be on the wet side & will probably continue that way

I suspected they might be wet as well, at least the well known ones. I'd love to climb Chimney Rock though and there are lots of group campsites in that area. There are a fair amount of canyons in that area that might be dry, but they tend to be long hikes. If Baptist/Chute Canyon is dry, it's not far from that area either.

All others that have easy access that I know of and are good canyons are probably wet. I guess Goblins Lair/Chamber of the Basilisk won't be, but it's short.


Ticaboo - plenty of canyons to choose from. Attractive large group camping options limited from what I know of?

There are some good large campsites around Starr Springs. I'm not sure about the mesa itself since I've always gone with a small group.

[Rob L]

I'd certainly be interested. That is, if you'd be happy to put up with me again Scott. :)

I must confess that I'd like to do some more routes in Capitol Reef, having done a few of the Wives last year. But a gathering anywhere suits me (I'll be on holiday).

Rob
(UK foreigner arriving with ropes)

[Sandstone Addiction]

I have that weekend off. Count me and one of my boys in. I might have my 2 buddies from work along as well.

Don't much care where we go as long as it's not over our skill level.

[Spiderzak]

I'm interested. I've been thinking a lot about Ticaboo lately, so I'd vote for that area.

[qedcook]

I'd be in. I'd prefer the North Wash, Ticaboo, Lost Springs, Roost, and Capital Reef, in that order.

[remoteman45]

I think I'd be in and could probably drag a few folks with me. North wash or Robber's my preference

[qedcook]

Is this still going to happen?

[Scott P]

Yes. Sorry, been a little busy lately, but it's time to start planning.

[Scott P]

First matter of business, is everyone OK with camping are people wanting some place close to a hotel?

[Byron]

I might be able to come as well. Motels? We don't need no stinking motels!!

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[qedcook]

Agreed, camping is fine.

[Rob L]

Camping is fine.

[Scott P]

Maybe we should just go to North Wash since everyone knows where it is and how to find each other.

I'll be there Friday night.

[qedcook]

Perfect, I've never done the Main and West forks of Leprachaun. I'd also be game for any of the Hog canyons, or the mini-slots.

[Rob L]

Sounds good to me. I'd like to do Hogwarts, amongst others.

Rob

[Scott P]

OK, so what is everyone else driving? I'll be in a blue Subaru Outback.

It sounds like there is going to be more than one group down there.

Also, is anyone else bringing firewood? I'm just wondering if I should take my small trailer or not.

[Sandstone Addiction]

Not sure yet what I'll be driving, but will let you know for sure on Thursday. I will also bring some firewood.

Weather is looking decent:

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lon=-110.54160&lat=38.01921#.VGLancn4ocY

[Scott P]

So who's still going. Rob L and qedcook? Anyone else?

[qedcook]

I'm going to have to bail. I double booked plans Saturday. I'm also a little concerned about the drive through Price canyon to and from. Sorry.

[Scott P]

Guess that leaves Rob. Rob are you still going?

[Scott P]

Sounds like 5 of us are going, if Rob is in. Let me know if anyone else is interested.

[Rob L]

I'm in.

I'm just up the road at Capitol Reef, and it didn't get above freezing all day today. Some wind chill too. Minor snow flurries. Happy to relocate to Moab or other warmer climes? Mexico? :mrgreen:

[Byron]

Earlier this week, I was good to go. But then the "GLOBAL WARMING POLAR VORTEX" screwed up my work schedule and now I have to make it up this weekend. Bummer...as I was looking forward to meeting you guys and seeing you again, Scott, after 12 years or so.

Have fun...and at least EVERYBODY should bring a big arm full of firewood, eh?

[Scott P]

I'm just up the road at Capitol Reef, and it didn't get above freezing all day today. Some wind chill too. Minor snow flurries. Happy to relocate to Moab or other warmer climes? Mexico? :mrgreen:

We could meet in Moab, if you would rather (either place is OK with me). If so though, let's decide quick since I'm leaving early afternoon tomorrow.

[Rob L]

Charlie E. & Teresa are already in Moab, so that may be best if you're happy. I'll probably be a wimp and book into the Super 8. I'll pm you my cell number.

Rob

[Scott P]

That's Ok with me.

[Scott P]

I'll be staying at the Riverside Inn, across from Super 8.

[Sandstone Addiction]

Any idea what canyon y'all might be doing on Saturday?

Rooms at Super 8 in Moab $40......sounds like my kind of camping :nod:

[Scott P]

Maybe Granary or some new canyons along Onion Creek? Some people want to do Lomatian.

[Scott P]

PS, guess I'm staying at the Super 8 after all. The rate went down.

[peakbaggers]

Maybe Granary or some new canyons along Onion Creek? Some people want to do Lomatian.
Scott,
If you end up doing Lomatium, let me know what you think about how to best anchor the big rap off Abbey Arch, since the new regs won't allow placing rope or sling on the arch itself. I'm in communication with some park officials about that. Photos might help if you can take any.

[Rob L]

We fiddlesticked off the tree behind the arch, although the pull was quite tough.

[ActionPacker]

Dang, Just saw this thread. I'd love to join but can't make it happen this time. I was in Hogwarts and Leprechaun (Right Fork) a few weeks ago (see trip report). They were both dry except for some knee deep puddles at the end of Leprechaun.

[ActionPacker]

I was in Hogwarts and Leprechaun (Right Fork) a few weeks ago (see trip report). They were both dry except for some knee deep puddles at the end of Leprechaun.

oops, I missed the part where you guys switched it up to Moab area so a trip report for Leprechaun is not that helpful.

Have fun,

[hikster11]

Scott,
If you end up doing Lomatium, let me know what you think about how to best anchor the big rap off Abbey Arch, since the new regs won't allow placing rope or sling on the arch itself. I'm in communication with some park officials about that. Photos might help if you can take any.


Like Rob said it was a tough pull to get the stick out. When it did everything fell down fine.
76858

[Kuya]

Like Rob said it was a tough pull to get the stick out. When it did everything fell down fine.
76858

What if you placed the Fiddlestick closer to the lip of the rappel (still wrapping the rope around the tree). how do you think that would work out? I think it would work great, my only concern would b the 30' of rope that would have to be pulled around the tree to retreive the rope.

[peakbaggers]

What if you placed the Fiddlestick closer to the lip of the rappel (still wrapping the rope around the tree). how do you think that would work out? I think it would work great, my only concern would b the 30' of rope that would have to be pulled around the tree to retreive the rope.

Blake: If I remember correctly, that rap was 135' when we used to do a webbing anchor, well extended off the arch. The distance back to the tree is probably another 30 - 40' ??, leaving only about another 25' - 35 max for the wrap around & knot. Doesn't seem like you'll gain all that much and it probably won't reach back to the sloping edge. I suspect you'd have to have a rope longer than 200'. I'm going there Friday to see & analyze what might be best.

[hikster11]

What if you placed the Fiddlestick closer to the lip of the rappel (still wrapping the rope around the tree). how do you think that would work out? I think it would work great, my only concern would b the 30' of rope that would have to be pulled around the tree to retreive the rope.
I actually first wrapped the rope around the main trunk of the tree and put the fiddle stick passed the section of rock in front of the tree. I then pulled it out and pulled the rope to feel the resistance of pulling the rope around the tree. It was high and I was concerned about being able to pull the rappel rope from the bottom. I think it would be very difficult or not possible. I decided I wanted the shortest amount of rope to have to slide around the tree for ease of the pull and not to mark the tree. That is why I put it on the closest branch to the drop that could support the weight. I would say it took about 200 lbs to pull the stick. My body weight was not enough. Another thing that I think could have made for the difficult pull was that I used my Sterling C4 rope to pull the stick. It is pretty stretchy using the full 200 ft. I think it absorbed alot of my energy trying to pull the stick. Had I used my Imlay rope I think the pull might have came out on my first tug. The tree is back at least 40 to 50 ft from the drop.

[Kuya]

That makes sense. thanks for the explanation :)

[deagol]

in reading Hikster11's post, it is one of the very few situations that the Buckle might have been better than a Fiddlestick.

[ratagonia]

I actually first wrapped the rope around the main trunk of the tree and put the fiddle stick passed the section of rock in front of the tree. I then pulled it out and pulled the rope to feel the resistance of pulling the rope around the tree. It was high and I was concerned about being able to pull the rappel rope from the bottom. I think it would be very difficult or not possible. I decided I wanted the shortest amount of rope to have to slide around the tree for ease of the pull and not to mark the tree. That is why I put it on the closest branch to the drop that could support the weight. I would say it took about 200 lbs to pull the stick. My body weight was not enough. Another thing that I think could have made for the difficult pull was that I used my Sterling C4 rope to pull the stick. It is pretty stretchy using the full 200 ft. I think it absorbed alot of my energy trying to pull the stick. Had I used my Imlay rope I think the pull might have came out on my first tug. The tree is back at least 40 to 50 ft from the drop.

(Just wanted to point out how intelligent this approach to using the tools is. Thanks for taking the time to figure it out and do it right!)

:moses:

[hikster11]

in reading Hikster11's post, it is one of the very few situations that the Buckle might have been better than a Fiddlestick.
What is the Buckle?

[deagol]

What is the Buckle?

It's a releasable anchor system...

http://canyoncollective.com/threads/the-buckle.18068/#post-75840

[peakbaggers]

I actually first wrapped the rope around the main trunk of the tree and put the fiddle stick passed the section of rock in front of the tree. I then pulled it out and pulled the rope to feel the resistance of pulling the rope around the tree. It was high and I was concerned about being able to pull the rappel rope from the bottom. I think it would be very difficult or not possible. I decided I wanted the shortest amount of rope to have to slide around the tree for ease of the pull and not to mark the tree. That is why I put it on the closest branch to the drop that could support the weight. I would say it took about 200 lbs to pull the stick. My body weight was not enough. Another thing that I think could have made for the difficult pull was that I used my Sterling C4 rope to pull the stick. It is pretty stretchy using the full 200 ft. I think it absorbed alot of my energy trying to pull the stick. Had I used my Imlay rope I think the pull might have came out on my first tug. The tree is back at least 40 to 50 ft from the drop.

Another thing to consider, which you did, was possible damage to the tree. Dragging a lot of rope around it will eventually damage all or part of it. A secure, dead tree would be a better option. If canyoneers eventually kill that tree from using it too much or incorrectly, that will be another nail in the coffin for this route.

[hikster11]

Another thing to consider, which you did, was possible damage to the tree. Dragging a lot of rope around it will eventually damage all or part of it. A secure, dead tree would be a better option. If canyoneers eventually kill that tree from using it too much or incorrectly, that will be another nail in the coffin for this route.
I completely agree

[deagol]

That's one reason I like the Buckle better for this rap.. webbing is easier on a tree than rope....

[Rob L]

That's one reason I like the Buckle better for this rap.. webbing is easier on a tree than rope....

Indeed, but using either of the two devices almost eliminates any wear & tear to the tree / anchor.