Subway ain't no hand-line canyon

[Scott Card]

Yesterday, I had the pleasure of taking one of my childhood buddies and his family and two of his family friends along with my son through the Subway. Based on a brief search for beta, I was unclear as to whether the logs were gone -- gone but reestablished, or an alternative way was set up around the waterfall at the last obstacle by the waterfall room and at the pools. Well, let me be very clear: THE LOGS ARE GONE.....PERIOD. There is no bridge, no rope, nada. Since I wasn't sure and I knew I was taking newbies, I packed three harnesses and sufficient gear. Since I had the right stuff, no big deal to get everyone down safely in a harness. To be clear again, THE SUBWAY NOW REQUIRES FULL RAPPELLING GEAR (imho).

If the Subway was classified as a semi-technical canyon in the past (harness wasn't required) I would certainly consider it a technical canyon now. Only the strongest and/or most foolish would attempt to handline the rap on the right of the waterfall/pool looking down canyon (LDC). And in my humble opinion only the foolish with a death wish would jump the waterfall to obtain the left slope LDC. It is a pretty long jump with extreme penalty points, one that I was not comfortable attempting and I am 6'2". More importantly, I was with a fit group but I wasn't about to let my 12 year old son or my friend's 10 year old son or his wife even consider that jump.

One other note, the bowling ball is no longer a swim but a climb over. Fun!

Finally, we had the rare opportunity of watching one in or group propose to his girlfriend at the "Stairway to Heaven" in the Subway proper. Yes, I picked his spot for him since he had never been there before. That was awesome. So nice to see a young man get on his knee and pull out a diamond ring and to top it all off, in the Subway. Simply awesome. I told them that there were some spectacular photos of that spot that he needs to buy to put on his wall. They will both never forget the Subway. I was lucky to be a part of that wonderful proposal.

Sorry, I didn't have a camera. I will try to have my buddy email me a couple to post.

[flatiron]

Hmm, I have not done Subway since new rap station was installed. I'll take your word it is not a handline now - which is a bummer. Subway was always a great semi tech hike you could blow through that did not require carrying all the extra weight of gear/ropes. I always felt it was, and planned it as a 'break day' from the other long tech routes. Throw in a shorty like Spry and you had a couple of easier days on my week long trips.
Hoping new logs might reappear ?! :popcorn:

[Iceaxe]

Sounds like the recent storms really pounded Left Fork

We should establish a betting pool on how long it takes for the logs to reappear. I've got my money no 8/23/14.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Scott Card]

It is truly wiped clean. Nothing there but sandstone. Tom's anchors are bomber and well placed but prepare to rap NOT hand line.

[jman]

I always felt it was, and planned it as a 'break day' from the other long tech routes.

The 8 or 10miles(I forget exactly) is a considered a break-day for ya huh? Nice!

[Deathcricket]

Subway ain't no hand-line canyon.

My boss saw this title and said "that guy is obviously an idiot using double negatives" to which I replied "this is actually proper vernacular for Utah peoples", which then sparked a lively Friday conversation about ebonics and the origins of proper word usage. Thanks for the entertainment and fun had by all.

Ohhhh he is still watching my monitor and making me type that he still thinks this is improper speech no matter where you originate. I still maintain that this is a local dialect and supported under the common speech clause of 1914. but he's my boss and the discussion is now closed.

[oldno7]

My boss saw this title and said "that guy is obviously an idiot using double negatives" to which I replied "this is actually proper vernacular for Utah peoples", which then sparked a lively Friday conversation about ebonics and the origins of proper word usage. Thanks for the entertainment and fun had by all.

Ohhhh he is still watching my monitor and making me type that he still thinks this is improper speech no matter where you originate. I still maintain that this is a local dialect and supported under the common speech clause of 1914. but he's my boss and the discussion is now closed.

This is ridiculous,

Wait--You have a boss?????:mrgreen:

How does one rule a libertarian?

And by the way--Scott C. gots some good english, now sweep the floor, citizen...

DC has a boss:ne_nau:

[Scott Card]

That there's country lawyerin' grammar! :crazy:
Deathcricket and your boss, please accept my humble apologies for butchering the English language. Yes, "Ain't no..." is a double negative. Please note that I properly butchered the "Ain't" by correctly placing the apostrophe. In my defense, I was raised with John Wayne, Andy Griffith, and Gunsmoke and one of my favorite movie characters is Mater.

Besides, I come to Bogley for fun. I must speak the proper dialect for the benefit of the natives.

[hank moon]

Boss ain't no fun!

[DesertDuke]

see 21 seconds into this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_43XucTd3o

[Deathcricket]

This is ridiculous,

Wait--You have a boss?????:mrgreen:

How does one rule a libertarian?

And by the way--Scott C. gots some good english, now sweep the floor, citizen...

DC has a boss:ne_nau:

He pays me money in exchange for my time, it's a mutually beneficial relationship and voluntary association. The only compromise I have to make is type random things on Bogley when specified.


That there's country lawyerin' grammar! :crazy:
@Deathcricket (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=278) and your boss, please accept my humble apologies for butchering the English language. Yes, "Ain't no..." is a double negative. Please note that I properly butchered the "Ain't" by correctly placing the apostrophe. In my defense, I was raised with John Wayne, Andy Griffith, and Gunsmoke and one of my favorite movie characters is Mater.

Besides, I come to Bogley for fun. I must speak the proper dialect for the benefit of the natives.

Naw I'm on your side. There is even a hip hop song out there "Ain't no sunshine when she's gone" that all the youngins are listening too. Ebonics is making a comeback FTW.

[flatiron]

The 8 or 10miles(I forget exactly) is a considered a break-day for ya huh? Nice!

Well, compared to Fat Mans, Englestead, Boundary, etc. And I did mention NO tech gear. This old back appreciates no ropes, harnesses, or wetsuits. Just food, water, 1st aid, and a fleece top after cold water.
Subway is a Great hike. And unlike others most of the hike is in the shade or early morning. :2thumbs:

[stefan]

Naw I'm on your side. There is even a hip hop song out there "Ain't no sunshine when she's gone" that all the youngins are listening too. Ebonics is making a comeback FTW.

are you talking a cover of the superlative original (bill withers) or something?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xzDhLvhgQw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIdIqbv7SPo

[rick t]

just for the record, the new bolts on the right side went in two years ago, in 2012, (thanks to a prescient Tom) and the log washed away, and I posted notice on this site about it, in july of last year. old news, you need to get out once in a while scott. The jumps penalty points are daunting, but the jump is not, I have been doing it for the last 10 years over the tree, and continue to do it. Agreed, the reluctant, infirm, or overly young, should not be encouraged to do it, but should rappel or be lowered on the right side, first. The tree had been there since my first descent in '78, but I'm not holding my breath for the famous and photogenic leaning tree above to be taken down and washed around the corner to replace it.

[Iceaxe]

Yo Rick.... Just to clarify... the logs were replaced 3 days after you reported them washed out. The new logs were recently washed out with this years monsoon.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[rockgremlin]

OK, just a little TR to add to the convo.....I took my wife, and my three boys (ages 13, 9, and 6) through the Subway 10 days ago (Monday, August 11).

Everyone had a blast, and hopefully pics are soon to follow. We had no harnesses, but did bring along a bunch of webbing, and a short length of rope.

At the second handline-down-to-the-pool (before the rappel), we had to swim under a logjam that required almost immersing our heads fully underwater -- it couldn't be climbed over.

At the final rappel, we fashioned webbing harnesses for the kids, and I jumped over the waterfall and downclimbed to provide a fireman belay from below. Once you jump over the waterfall (which is really only a six foot horizontal jump at most), the downclimb from there is a piece of cake. I hugged the log leaning on the south wall and shimmied down, but there was at least one other alternate downclimb route I could've used.

I agree that jump over the falls isn't for everyone, but if you're fit and willing to take the risk, it's not a bad way down. So, in short....Subway is still a "no rappel necessary" canyon, but there's a definite risk involved now that wasn't there previously.

That rappel is about a 20-footer, but it was still verrrry intimidating for my younger boys who have never rappelled before, LOL.

[Scott Card]

My real point in posting this info to begin with was that I do not believe that the Subway, in its present conditions, should be advertised as a "no rappel necessary" canyon. Can one do it without rappelling? Yes, but as you, Rockgremlin stated, "that jump over the falls isn't for everyone". I wasn't about to let my 12 year old make that jump. He is fit and athletic but the penalty points were too great and his legs were too short. Sounds like you made the same decision to rappel/lower you kids. So, yes, it can be done without rappelling but given the diverse and mostly newbie status of those doing the Subway, I would advertise it as "you should bring rappelling gear and know how to use it" type canyon. I would much rather be besmirched by the young and athletic telling me they didn't need the harness and that I am a wimp/wuss/weak/old/etc. for not doing the leap. It would cause me a lot of guilt if I advertised the canyon as "no rappel necessary" with the current conditions and someone got hurt trying to make the leap they had no business making.

One more comment, like most sports, canyoneering has a huge mental component to it. A six foot leap from one chalk mark to another on a side walk is mentally not the same if you dig a twenty foot trench between the chalk marks and put a few boulders at the bottom. The distance may be the same but mentally, that six feet now looks like 12 feet. In the case of the Subway, add slippery rocks, cold legs and feet, waterfall and rocks at the bottom, and an uneven surfaces to mess with the mind as it contemplates the six foot (or whatever it is) gap. If we advertise "No rappel necessary, only a 6 foot jump necessary" that seems to me to be a potential recipe for injury or worse. Now, I know I am going to take some flak from some of you with this opinion and that everyone needs to do their own research, be responsible for themselves, yada yada, and I generally agree. But the Subway is a different beast because of the permit system and volume of rookie visitors it receives.

Helmet on, fire away!

[TommyBoy]

Being cautious is never a bad thing IMO, granted most athletic people should be able to make that jump, but I've seen several people in the subway that were decidedly unathletic, not all of them kids either. Makes sense for the beta writers to at least add a warning.

[hank moon]

given the diverse and mostly newbie status of those doing the Subway, I would advertise it as "you should bring rappelling gear and know how to use it" type canyon.

X2

[jman]

My real point in posting this info to begin with was that I do not believe that the Subway, in its present conditions, should be advertised as a "no rappel necessary" canyon. Can one do it without rappelling? Yes, but as you, Rockgremlin stated, "that jump over the falls isn't for everyone". I wasn't about to let my 12 year old make that jump. He is fit and athletic but the penalty points were too great and his legs were too short. Sounds like you made the same decision to rappel/lower you kids. So, yes, it can be done without rappelling but given the diverse and mostly newbie status of those doing the Subway, I would advertise it as "you should bring rappelling gear and know how to use it" type canyon. I would much rather be besmirched by the young and athletic telling me they didn't need the harness and that I am a wimp/wuss/weak/old/etc. for not doing the leap. It would cause me a lot of guilt if I advertised the canyon as "no rappel necessary" with the current conditions and someone got hurt trying to make the leap they had no business making.

One more comment, like most sports, canyoneering has a huge mental component to it. A six foot leap from one chalk mark to another on a side walk is mentally not the same if you dig a twenty foot trench between the chalk marks and put a few boulders at the bottom. The distance may be the same but mentally, that six feet now looks like 12 feet. In the case of the Subway, add slippery rocks, cold legs and feet, waterfall and rocks at the bottom, and an uneven surfaces to mess with the mind as it contemplates the six foot (or whatever it is) gap. If we advertise "No rappel necessary, only a 6 foot jump necessary" that seems to me to be a potential recipe for injury or worse. Now, I know I am going to take some flak from some of you with this opinion and that everyone needs to do their own research, be responsible for themselves, yada yada, and I generally agree. But the Subway is a different beast because of the permit system and volume of rookie visitors it receives.

Helmet on, fire away!

X2


I would like to think that as a beta writer/sprayer - you always write/tell it OBJECTIVELY....always, always, always. And I think both Shane and Tom do that well.

Subjective should remain for your own personal group. But the public is objectively.

I've seen numerous 60yr+olds descend the Subway and there is no way I would say "jumping the gap is easy" to my mom and dad. Even to athletic noobs. Sure some might jump it - but I'll let them decide it once they are there and have appropriate gear.

There's where people get in trouble is when we remain subjective.

[rockgremlin]

......what I get for arguing with lawyers.


What's your retention fee?



No, seriously......what's yer retention fee?

[Scott Card]

......what I get for arguing with lawyers.


What's your retention fee?



No, seriously......what's yer retention fee?

Fees depend on the type of case. PM me if you have a specific case or question. Happy to help.

[Pebbles]

I love this hike!!! In fact we just did Subway (7-31-14).. This was our 5th time :) Our first trip to Utah was June of 2011 and the water was at record levels so we were only able to go bottom up. Our 4th trip was May 8, 2014 and we added the Das Boot leg to the trip for the first time. We enjoyed that addition a lot :) in fact we liked it so much we did Subway with the Das Boot leg July 31, 2014 again. I'm glad we have known ahead of the changes as my other half (Iflycr500) always reads trip reports here :)
I finally gained my style points for going through the underwater hole as well as hanging out in the Waterfall room :) It was amazing as we were the only ones there at that point. Could have stayed and played for hours too :)
Here are some pictures, sorry that there are not many as we kept the cameras bagged until our favorite area. We've got quite a bit of GoPro footage that still needs to be edited :) Anyway hope you like my pictures..
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:cool2:

[hank moon]

Serious showers!