Heaps PH Conditions Inquiry

[cynrat]

Is anyone familiar with the current pot hole conditions in Heaps via the Phantom Valley approach? We are planning a descent over Memorial Day weekend. Thanks.

Sal

[Iceaxe]

I have no direct knowledge, but with spring runoff and the recent rains in the park I can't imagine the potholes being too difficult. In fact the potholes in Heaps are never really difficult compared to other slots like Imlay.

[Kuya]

I too am curious about the candition in Heaps. We will be going through the weekend after you guys.

[Bootboy]

Just go prepared for crying out loud. What difference does it make?




LNT

[Kuya]

Just go prepared for crying out loud. What difference does it make?




LNT


HAHA!!! when I saw it was bootboy that posted on this thread, I totally knew what his comment would say. I was spot on!

Of COURSE we will go in prepared. BUT it doesn't hurt to get a better understanding of what the canyon might be like. sheesh, CALM down bootboy. IT REALLY is OKAY to ask a few questions about canyon beta on a canyoneering forum! and in actuality, it could make all the difference! Knowing current canyon conditions from trusted sources can change what I bring through a canyon.

[Bootboy]

You think it makes a difference. That's why you ask.

You're going in regardless of the answer right?"

You went through about the same time last year, right? I think you can reasonably infer that conditions will be similar. Any relevant difference can be ascertained by a casual review of recent weather.

It's not so much directed at you, but the OP.

It just gets old. Thread after thread after thread of people wanting to know "conditions" down to insignificant minutia. I'm not saying that potholes in Heaps equate to minutia, but if you're in a place like that, you'd damn well better be prepared and have an understanding of the potential hazards.

It's like that one guy that you take on trips against your better judgement who, at EVERY obstacle asks, "how'd you do this". Dude, it's fakkin 4 foot down climb! Just do it. Figure it out.

Anyway....


LNT

[ratagonia]

In fact the potholes in Heaps are never really difficult compared to other slots like Imlay.

I'm pulling rank on you here, Shane. You obviously have not seen Heaps in Hard Conditions, because when it is Hard, it is WAY HARDER than Imlay at its hardest.

Heaps holds its water better than Imlay, so it tends to stay close to full much longer. But when Heaps gets low, it is WAY harder than Imlay. People tend to stop doing it when the water level gets down to that level.

Many of the potholes in Heaps are flat past the pothole for quite a ways, so tossing bags out there does not do any good. Very few as in almost none of the potholes in Heaps have pre-drilled hook holes. Plus Heaps is colder and longer...

And then there's the Devil's Pit!!!

Tom

[cynrat]

Thanks everyone. This is a planned one day descent starting at Lava around 4.30am or so. We have two members at least who have done Heaps before, and one has done it twice, but none of us in low water. We did do Imlay last May in low water and had to hook out of Bertha and some others. No hammering though, but it would have helped. If we reach the final raps too late we will bivy rather than rap in the dark. We are stashing the rope as well.
Three questions: Would a PFD be useful? Would a pack raft be useful? What is the Devil's Pit?

Sal

[TommyBoy]

I would say no to the PFD unless you really have a hard time swimming, since you should get plenty of flotation from your wetsuit, a pack raft would be useless and just get in the way in my opinion. As for the Devils Pit, as far as I can tell you have to be "special" to find it.

[ratagonia]

I would say no to the PFD unless you really have a hard time swimming, since you should get plenty of flotation from your wetsuit, a pack raft would be useless and just get in the way in my opinion. As for the Devils Pit, as far as I can tell you have to be "special" to find it.

Ha ha... very good.

I would bring a Supai Pool Toy in low water conditions. Makes potholes escapes much easier.

Devil's Pit: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/history/heaps82.htm

Some folks got caught by the Pit last summer.

Tom

[cynrat]

Thanks, again. I have a Supai. I'll let you know how it goes.

Sal

[Sombeech]

Hell even when I'm headed out to ride a bike trail I've done 100X, I'd like to know if there were any snow patches or puddles. I'll be in the parking lot, so obviously I'm planning on riding it, but if a rider comes back it's sometimes nice to know if there are puddles to avoid, or a lot of hikers to slow down for, dusty or tacky surface, or a boulder that has rolled across the trail.

If I'm dressed heavily and I learn there's no need for the extra layers, it sure does make the ride nicer if I can wear shorts and a T shirt. If somebody jumped on me for asking how the trail was lately, they'd regret it.

No harm in asking current conditions. I don't take it as an excuse to not learn the beta.

I would suggest anybody who doesn't like Conditions threads, to avoid threads with "Conditions" in the title. Trip Reports too, because if you've done the canyon, you wouldn't want to EVER see any other pictures of it because that would give away the current conditions, right?

Welcome to bogley, cynrat

[Iceaxe]

I would suggest anybody who doesn't like Conditions threads, to avoid threads with "Conditions" in the title. Trip Reports too, because if you've done the canyon, you wouldn't want to EVER see any other pictures of it because that would give away the current conditions,

^^^THIS^^^

Not everyone is as awesome as Bootboy who only does 4C X canyons with no beta and 50 pounds of sand in his pack. Some of us (me included) like to know what we are getting into for the day.

:popcorn:

[mzamp]

It's like that one guy that you take on trips against your better judgement who, at EVERY obstacle asks, "how'd you do this". Dude, it's fakkin 4 foot down climb! Just do it. Figure it out.


Or the opposite. They guy that gives you beta on every little down climb. And then you purposely do it differently. Just because!


I get where you are coming from. It is fun to be the first one through for the season and go in prepared for anything. You can get the same excitement by not reading about current conditions. However, it doesn't bother me that people ask or that people give out condition reports. Especially if you are waiting for a particular canyon to be in a certain "mode" before you decide to make the trip.

[Scott P]

After the latest storm, I was going to check the road conditions before driving to Halls Creek, but after reading some of the above post, I decided the H#$% with checking road conditions; I'll just find out when I get there.

[qedcook]

Stop trolling, bootboy.

[Bootboy]

Stop trolling, bootboy.

Ya got me.


LNT

[ratagonia]

After the latest storm, I was going to check the road conditions before driving to Halls Creek, but after reading some of the above post, I decided the H#$% with checking road conditions; I'll just find out when I get there.

stop trolling Scott...

:moses:

[Brian in SLC]

I'm pulling rank on you here, Shane. You obviously have not seen Heaps in Hard Conditions, because when it is Hard, it is WAY HARDER than Imlay at its hardest.

Ditto that. I've done Heaps in "hard" conditions. Its WAY harder than Imlay under any conditions, IMHO. I least I found it so...and, so did another friend who's a very experienced climber.

Keepers in Heaps are pretty gnarly. Glad they don't appear very often. Takes super low water conditions, methinks.

[Iceaxe]

Obviously I've never done Heaps in super hard conditions, just added it to the bucket list.

I assume the super low water conditions are a little rare?

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[flatiron]

^^^THIS^^^

Not everyone is as awesome as Bootboy who only does 4C X canyons with no beta and 50 pounds of sand in his pack. Some of us (me included) like to know what we are getting into for the day.

:popcorn:

X2 !!!

[cynrat]

Didn't mean to stir the hen house with a simple question. We are a strong well prepared team. But if conditions were abominable we wouldn't attempt it. If it's raining we won't attempt it either, for the same reason.

[2065toyota]

All questions will stir some drama. That's what forums are for. 25% for information, 75% for entertainment


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stray]

On the other hand, if the conditions are really bad, you wouldn't want to bring your girlfriend's lapdog in a dry sack. :roflol:

[cynrat]

Walked over to the Emerald Pools today and noticed a 200' rope stuck on a horn 40 feet above the Bird Perch that was left behind, logically the rap side. Assuming anyone doing Heaps after them would release it, that either just happened or they were the last ones through last year. Park ranger said there have been no rescues. I mention that for what it's worth. Upper Emerald Pool looks like it has water, but a friend said she thought it was low. We'll soon find out.

Sal

739447394573946

[cynrat]

As luck would have it after a long streak of stellar weather, there is now a 30% chance of rain Saturday on our day for Heaps. After weighing our options, of which I thought there was only one, we decided to live and canyoneer another day, A triumph of decision making.

[qedcook]

monday looks better for weather

[cynrat]

It sure does. We set ourselves a small window of Friday or Saturday long in advance, and the weather was just bad exactly then. Some of our group had to work Monday, others had to move on to other things. We even discussed going and evaluating the weather one narrows at a time, bailing down Isaac if necessary, but I was against it. Who does Heaps with a 30% rain forecast?

[Scott P]

Who does Heaps with a 30% rain forecast?

It's been bumped up to 50% for Saturday, 70% tonight:

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lon=-112.97830&lat=37.26141#.U3_RBXJdWSo

Good choice postponing.

I still haven't done Heaps, but we too have planned it and had to bail. One time the park service closed the canyon for an accident. Another time the experienced members dropped out and I was the only one with any pothole experience and that had done a big rappel. Sigh; maybe some day.

[cynrat]

We also had a last minute personnel change so we were going with four. We were originally five. I wouldn't go with less than four. One of our group did Heaps with only him and his friend, but they were sure it was a swim. We're doing Lodge Canyon that day instead (Saturday). I've done it before in the rain. Thanks.

[ihiromi]

Quick Condition report from last weekend:

Our team of 6 descended Heaps Canyon from Lava Point on May 25th~26th.
Despite low chances of rain, there were some threatening clouds in the distance during the approach. Luckily, all of it dumped in Left Fork, and we were blessed with perfect weather the entire trip.

Potato Hollow Springs were dry, but the water at the pools at the bottom of Phantom Valley (before the narrows) was clear and refreshing - a good option for filling up your water before you're only left with skanky pothole water.

The canyon was full full full. No significant pothole escape challenges. First two narrows were fun and short, third narrows had one really long swim (which is probably many many potholes in low water) but was otherwise a mere stroll with a couple tricky spots.

Meat anchors and pack anchors were very useful, especially in the third narrows.

Full trip report to follow.

[Kuya]

Thanks for this! Headed there tonight!

[edsbay]

Thanks for this! Headed there tonight!


We have an Imlay Sneak permit for tomorrow (Sat)! Pretty cool we are both doing the "big boys" in Zion on the same day!

Hit me up if you all wanna meet for a beer pregame tonight however early or postgame tomorrow!

[Kuya]

We have an Imlay Sneak permit for tomorrow (Sat)! Pretty cool we are both doing the "big boys" in Zion on the same day!

Hit me up if you all wanna meet for a beer pregame tonight however early or postgame tomorrow!


Awesome! have fun in Imlay! that is a great canyon :)

We are hitting the trail late tonight, and will be camping in Heaps canyon tonight. And we will be pressing hard to get back to Utah Valley tomorrow evening as well.... sadly we probably wont have time to meet up. BUT I do hope to grab a bite to eat at Blondies (if I can convince my group to go there) Maybe we can all meet up there if timing allows it!