Another BLM protest

[Scott P]

http://www.sjrnews.com/view/full_story/24981971/article-May-10-ride-may-be-much-bigger-than-anticipated?instance=home_news_1st_right

"Apr 23, 2014 What was initially conceived as a ride involving a handful of Blanding residents in Recapture Canyon could grow into a massive statement against the federal government.

San Juan County Commissioner Phil Lyman has called for the May 10 ATV ride on public land in the canyon, located just east of Blanding city limits.

Lyman said he has lost patience with the federal Bureau of Land Management (BLM), which “temporarily” closed the area to vehicular traffic in 2007 and has yet to reopen it.

Lyman said the ride is to make a statement regarding local jurisdiction.

However, because of the timing of another protest against BLM action in Nevada, the ride may attract significantly more people and interest than originally conceived.

Lyman said the idea for the ride originated from a February town hall meeting in Blanding. After the ride was planned, but before it could be announced, concern about federal government intrusion into public lands was enflamed by an altercation involving rancher Cliven Bundy in Nevada.

“People may think we are jumping on the Bundy train,” said Lyman at an April 21 Commissioner work meeting, “but this was planned before the events in Nevada.”

The BLM began rounding up Bundy’s cattle in early April, claiming that Bundy had not paid his grazing allotment and his cattle were trespassing on federal land.

Supporters of Bundy counter that an oppressive federal government was exercising undue power and was taking away the right of Bundy to graze cattle on land his family used for nearly 100 years.

A tense standoff attracted worldwide media attention, and protesters and militia members from throughout the western United States. Eventually, the BLM stopped rounding up the cattle.

With another public land protest scheduled in Blanding several weeks after the Bundy altercation, local officials are not sure what the response will be.

Lyman reports that one large ATV organization suggested that they could invite all 15,000 of their members to converge on Blanding for the ride.

“Most of the people that are interested in this are older, retired people who feel that enough is enough,” said Lyman. “Initially, this is a protest of the people of Blanding who are fed up, but it appears to be growing.”

Vehical access to the area was closed in 2007 by the local BLM office by a “Supervisor’s Discretionary Closure Action”.

A subsequent legal action in federal court resulted in a $35,000 fine for two Blanding residents who were accused of building unauthorized roads on public lands. The roadwork apparently damaged some archaeological sites along the trail.

The trail and fine is an outrage to many local residents, who state that little or no damage occurred.

“The canyon speaks for itself,” said Lyman. It has been next to Blanding for 100 years, and it hasn’t been trashed.”

Several years ago, and at the request of the BLM, the county submitted a Title V application to assume responsibility for the area. The county would develop, maintain, police and supervise access to the area.

The Title V application is challenged by a number of environmental organizations. County officials say that after several years of failed promises that the application would be processed, they have lost faith in the effort.

The county may decide to withdraw the Title V application before the May 10 ATV ride.

“It is the right-of-way application that has opened the door for this endless delay,” said Lyman.

“This is not an attempt to beat up the BLM but an attempt to state that surely the San Juan County Commission has some authority over the use of land within the county,” said Lyman.

It is not yet clear what is San Juan County’s role in the ride. At the current time, the ride is sponsored by Lyman himself and not by San Juan County or any other organization. "

[cchoc]

There is a bit of history in Blanding with folks raiding archeological sites, limiting access seems prudent and there are plenty of other OHV areas around for the ATV crowd.

[Bluff-Canyoneer]

I wonder if they will be waiving American flags while saying they don't recognize the US government like the Nevada Bundy crowd?

In other area news, some bozos just trashed the crypto soil at Chimney Rocks near Bluff.



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[cchoc]

I wonder if they will be waiving American flags while saying they don't recognize the US government like the Nevada Bundy crowd?

In other area news, some bozos just trashed the crypto soil at Chimney Rocks near Bluff.



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Part of the Leave Mo' Trace crowd I presume. :angryfire:

[cchoc]

Belongs to more than just the ATV riders in Blanding.


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[Scott P]

Belongs to more than just the ATV riders in Blanding.

According to many people (Kelly?), you don't have any rights if you enjoy nature. The only ones who have rights are the ones who claim the right to destroy it.

It is so sad that people don't realize that when you share something, you are supposed to take good care of it and at least try to return it in the same condition (or better) that it was given to you.

It's a sad state in which the world is coming to. More and more, people just care about themselves.

Fewer and fewer people care about others or nature, or to take care of something so their children and grand children can enjoy it.

People in general are getting lazier and lazier as well. Why walk to something if you can just rip through on an ATV without less effort? Of course the disability claim will be made, but if that is the main reason, why are no ATV trails that I know if ADA compliant (at least some hiking trails are, but yes, we need more)? I have worked as a civil engineer for much of my life and if disability is truly the main issue, I'll be happy to provide ADA requirements for any of the new tracks. Free of charge, I will help design them and provide legal ADA requirements for anyone that needs them.

Yes, motorized recreation is very important. They should exist as well. Roads are important too (I worked as a highway engineer for many years). Yes, oil is even very important. Mining too. So are wild places as well. There is enough room for all of these without having to wreck it all. Some people don't care about others or about nature. Obesity is a huge problem in the US. The wild areas are the only places I know of where it's reasonable to exercise for an entire day. No one I know of goes to the gym for an entire day, let alone for days on end.

I know many people are non-religious, but I am.

Here is what the LDS Church says about nature and nature preservation:

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/environmental-stewardship-conservation

I happen to agree with them. If you are of another religion or non-religious, that's OK too, though I still think they make some good points.

[2065toyota]

The latest rave of controversies are not necessarily the ideas around individuals and/or places. The problem is ever extending and grabbing hands of the government. Whether it be BLM, IRS, Politicians, etc. There are a lot of people opposed to these ideas and this is the result of it. This is what makes us America. There is the freedom to choose to support the current ways of life or oppose them. With that ability of choice, there is also the responsibility to accept the good or bad consequences that may come with your actions. That is the point in which I believe most people fail to accept. The responsibility of your choices.


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[cchoc]

Ah, but without the BLM to protect the lands we'd all have to live with the responsibility of the choices made by a few locals. The problem is that to many people, public land means land that they can do what they want with and on.

The "ever extending and grabbing hands of the government" is just a bogeyman promoted by Faux News. This whole IRS nonsense is just that, they should actively and relentlessly investigate any group popping up claiming tax exempt status. The fact that so many of these groups were tea baggers is just a sign of the times, not a sign that their ideology was being challenged.

Sadly, it is in the best interest of the media and politicians in general that the voters remain polarized and willing to believe anything their 'side' says without question and disbelieve everything attributed to the 'other side'. That makes us easy to manipulate.

[2065toyota]

I find your full defense of the government and all their actions pretty vomiting


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[cchoc]

I find your full defense of the government and all their actions pretty vomiting


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Puke on. I think the IRS actions and those of the BLM that are in the news justifiable, if that is what you call a full defense of the government and all their actions I'm sorry for you.

[cchoc]

Release Date: 05/09/14








Contacts:




Megan Crandall

, 801-539-4089













BLM Statement Regarding Proposed Illegal ATV Ride in Recapture Canyon





Today, Bureau of Land Management Utah State Director Juan Palma issued the following statement regarding the illegal ride planned through Recapture Canyon near Monticello, Utah on Saturday, May 10:

“We regret that the illegal ATV ride planned for tomorrow appears to be going forward. Recapture Canyon is public land belonging to all Americans and contains ancient cultural sites and artifacts that are at serious risk of being destroyed or damaged.

“The BLM's multiple-use and sustained yield mission is to ensure the health and productivity of the public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations. However, multiple-use does not mean every use on every acre, and the limited closures help protect these sensitive resources from further damage and shows respect to those whose final resting place is in the canyon.

“The BLM-Utah will seek appropriate penalties against anyone who willfully violates the law. As always, our first and most important priority will be the safety of the public and our employees, and our actions will reflect that.”

There are more than 2,800 miles of trails on public lands that are open to ATV use within a short-drive of Blanding – in other words, the approximate distance between New York City and Los Angeles. This extensive trail system offers OHV riders vast and diverse opportunities to ride and recreate on public lands in southeastern Utah. In order to protect the rich archaeological record left by the Ancestral Puebloans who once called this area home for nearly two millennial, the trail was closed to motorized access in 2007. The BLM is committed to constructively addressing competing resource demands on public lands in the area and will continue to engage with the county and other stakeholders.

Public lands managed by the BLM in Utah contribute significantly to the State’s economy and have a positive impact on nearby communities. Diverse recreational activities on BLM-managed lands in Utah provided $490 million in local and national economic benefits in 2012.







The BLM manages more than 245 million acres of public land, the most of any Federal agency. This land, known as the National System of Public Lands, is primarily located in 12 Western states, including Alaska. The BLM also administers 700 million acres of sub-surface mineral estate throughout the nation. The BLM's mission is to manage and conserve the public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations under our mandate of multiple-use and sustained yield. In Fiscal Year 2013, the BLM generated $4.7 billion in receipts from public lands.



--BLM--

[ratagonia]

I find your full defense of the government and all their actions pretty vomiting


He did not.

I have asked cchoc to be more tempered in his expression. We'll see what happens on that front.

Much of the "WAR" against the BLM/Federal Government comes from the decades where the Utah BLM was essentially a local agency that did what the local rural Utahns wanted them to do. Graze cows here? Sure, why not. Build trails across these ruins? How many sacks of concrete do you need???

But a funny thing happened about 20-30 years ago: the Federal government / BLM decided to actually do their job and MANAGE the lands under their wing, rather than just do what the good ol' boys told them to do. So the BLM was no longer a child of the extractive industries (Grazing, Mining, ATVs) and the natural qualities of the land became one of several attributes for which the lands could be managed. Your representative government (Congress) choose to do this.

As admins switch back and forth between Rs and Ds, the power of the good ol' boys waxes and wanes. But it is unlikely to go back to the free-rein days before the 70's.

"The latest rave of controversies are not necessarily the ideas around individuals and/or places. The problem is ever extending and grabbing hands of the government. Whether it be BLM, IRS, Politicians, etc. There are a lot of people opposed to these ideas and this is the result of it."

I disagree. I think this is all horse poopy, and a fine example of how well-crafted propaganda can draw in even intelligent people like my friend Kody. There are plenty of things wrong with our government, but the BLM managing our land intelligently as directed by Congress is not one of them. If you want to look for government incompetence, how about letting Bundy pirate-graze his cows for 20 years without effective law enforcement. Or letting these county commissioners down in San Juan County criminally conspire to tear up indian ruins with no prosecution (not the first time they have pulled this stunt).

"This is what makes us America. There is the freedom to choose to support the current ways of life or oppose them."

And we have processes for opposing them, which is what makes us special in the world. When John Adams turned the reins of government over to Thomas Jefferson in 1800, this was the first time in history that authority had been turned over to the opposite political party without violence. The world held its breath - the only people who did not think it would be a problem were the people of the United States.

"With that ability of choice, there is also the responsibility to accept the good or bad consequences that may come with your actions. That is the point in which I believe most people fail to accept. The responsibility of your choices."

By which, I think you mean, I hope you mean, that instead of waiving guns around and threatening a bloodbath (women and children first!) while BLM employees are trying to do their job of getting the cheater Bundy's range maggots off OUR land, if these people had been responsible Americans they would have either gone through channels (courts - (previously exhausted), their Congressperson, etc.); or staged a non-threatening protest and gotten themselves arrested. And done the time their actions warranted.

Seems like it is only the left-wing types who have the cajones to actually DO civil disobedience. The Right-Winger "Patriot" types get a pass because the US Attorney considers it "too political" to prosecute right-winger types who clearly violate the law.

Well. That's my diatribe. I'm stickin' to it!

Tom :moses:

[oldno7]

tom, like other progressives, misses the point--by a mile!

The acts by citizens protesting the gov. overreach, has nothing to do with bundy.

It has to do with a federal government that would rather send 200 armed rangers in to do a job that SHOULD of been done in the

court system. The same court system that the tom's are so proud of in denying bundy's appeals.

A rational, reasoned response to this would have been enforcing the court orders through leins, freezing assets, etc.

I better result could have been achieved by using the system, rather than thinking you can overtake a citizen with brute force

and then feign madness because your group of rangers was over matched.

People ran to the bundy cause when they saw gov. snipers overlooking the ranch, when they saw elderly women being hurled to the ground,

when they saw areas set aside for "free" speech. These are gov. overreaches!

So bundy didn't pay his fees, yep, he's wrong but if you believe 200 armed agents is the right answer to one who doesn't comply with gov. fees or taxes, I hope you don't ever protest your taxes.

Armed people showed up as a result of the blm's policy of aggression, it was not the other way around.

Freezing bundys assets and bank accts., 20 yrs ago would have made this an issue no one ever heard about.

[oldno7]

hope & change = rule by force and intimidation (blm/bundy/ 2014)

so at least we know why obama continues to run Guantanamo--all them pesky domestic terrorist going to need new zip codes......

At the very least, this situation has put a tiny bit of fear into an overreaching government.

[Byron]

Kurt, layin' it down...

[Iceaxe]

^^^THIS^^^

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Scott P]

Now that we're on the subject of overreaching government and the BLM, what about Tim DeChristopher?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_DeChristopher

Was his 21 month prison sentence the result of an overreaching government?

I don't agree with what he did by any means (and am not against oil drilling in many of these areas), but despite what people make things out to be, it appears that the BLM is harder on environmental civil disobedience than they are with non environmental civil disobedience.

Agree or disagree?

[Iceaxe]

Let's wait and see how the Bundy deal plays out and than I'll answer your question. I thought Dechristopher got what he deserved.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Byron]

it appears that the BLM is harder on environmental civil disobedience than they are with non environmental civil disobedience.

Agree or disagree?It appears that they get really pissed when you screw with the big money. I think the sentence he was given was way too harsh...there are people who murder that spend less time in the clink than that.

[oldno7]

Make no mistake...
Without the 2nd, there will be no 1st!!!!!

I think I'd rather not be pepper sprayed, ymmv.

[oldno7]

How is this for trail abuse?

Should this trail be shut down?

It's on federal land....

[oldno7]

Of course the blm doesn't have time to deal with these slightly problematic areas.

Not all blm managed land but much is. So why are these areas neglected?

Many are wilderness, National Wildlife areas, National parks, National monuments, conservation areas---wheres the love?

None of these areas are usable by US citizens without a huge risk.

http://www.arizonaedventures.com/things-to-see-do/arizona-top-ten/endangered-places/

[Glenn]

How is this for trail abuse?

Should this trail be shut down?

It's on federal land....

Is this at Organ Pipe NM? That's a whole 'nuther discussion (i.e., border enforcement).

[hank moon]

Gov't is too big!

No, wait - gov't is too small!

No, wait...

[oldno7]

Is this at Organ Pipe NM? That's a whole 'nuther discussion (i.e., border enforcement).


Look at the link I provided--you will see several areas that are managed by the blm.

My question might be--would it be more prudent to clean up these areas and use the manpower of 200 rangers to help this situation?

Or more prudent to take 200 rangers and attempt to do what the courts should be doing?(bundy)

blm wasted 4-5 million dollars on the bundy debacle, money certainly used in a wiser way....

and nope hank--I don't want more government, way less would be way better...

[Byron]

How is this for trail abuse?

Should this trail be shut down?

It's on federal land....That's friggin' ridiculous.... one of these days those Al Qaeda types are going to figure it out.

[reverse_dyno]

In the Bundy situation, the BLM is concerned about the land, not the money. Freezing Bundy's assets does not prevent his cows from damaging the flora and fauna of the area his cows are grazing on. The BLM is not in the business of making money, it is not a corporation. Spending millions to remove cows from a landscape makes perfect sense, if your goal is to get the cows off the land, and not to recoup grazing fees. The BLM tried to using the legal system to force Bundy to remove his cows from the land, and it didn't work.

[Glenn]

Look at the link I provided--you will see several areas that are managed by the blm.

My question might be--would it be more prudent to clean up these areas and use the manpower of 200 rangers to help this situation?

Or more prudent to take 200 rangers and attempt to do what the courts should be doing?(bundy)

blm wasted 4-5 million dollars on the bundy debacle, money certainly used in a wiser way....

and nope hank--I don't want more government, way less would be way better...

I read the article in your link, yes, which is why I suspected the photo was from Organ Pipe NM. The article points out that it and several other national monuments, parks, and refuges are dangerous because of the drug trafficking that goes on there. Additionally, a few of them have become waypoints for illegal immigrants and the debris left behind has gotten bad.

However, you can't compare that situation with Bundy's. The BLM isn't responsible for border enforcement and using 200 BLM personnel to clean up this mess - assuming you've got the funds to pay for it - won't resolve the underlying problem down there in Arizona (or New Mexico or Texas or California).

And, as reverse_dyno eloquently pointed out, using the court system hasn't removed one head of illegally-grazing head of cattle. Neither did bringing in professional rustlers and armed officers. Something else has to be done.

Oh, and please tell me what source is estimating the cost of the failed seizure at between $4-5 million dollars. That's significantly higher than I've heard.

[oldno7]

The contractor providing the cowboys, made $966,000 all by himself.

Your funny thinking to have law enforcement pick up trash, I was thinking have them patrol the land down there they are paid to manage.

But your idea sounds like tax dollars better at work.:haha:

[oldno7]

In the Bundy situation, the BLM is concerned about the land, not the money. Freezing Bundy's assets does not prevent his cows from damaging the flora and fauna of the area his cows are grazing on. The BLM is not in the business of making money, it is not a corporation. Spending millions to remove cows from a landscape makes perfect sense, if your goal is to get the cows off the land, and not to recoup grazing fees. The BLM tried to using the legal system to force Bundy to remove his cows from the land, and it didn't work.

If they would have froze his assets 20 years ago, he couldn't afford to run cows and they would have already turned into coyote/vulture food.

The blm already killed the bulls, cows are like lesbians, they don't produce offspring.