Smoking Weed in Pine Creek?

[AlexGeorge]

On the 17th my wife and i did pine creek and we couldn't help but smell marijuana periodically as we descended the canyon. I feel whatever your stance is on marijuana do it some place where it wont effect others! and besides doesn't canyoneering give you a high a enough already?
What do you guys think about this?

[deagol]

I agree with you....

[peakbaggers]

Makes about as much sense as doing a canyon drunk. Personally, I want all my faculties in full play.

[harness man]

We do not want to be breathing/smelling ANY kind of smoke in a canyon!

[Deathcricket]

I actually appreciate the pot smell as it covers up the shit smell. So for me it's a bonus.

[Slot Machine]

^X2^, what peakbaggers said.


On the 17th my wife and i did pine creek and we couldn't help but smell marijuana periodically as we descended the canyon. I feel whatever your stance is on marijuana do it some place where it wont effect others! and besides doesn't canyoneering give you a high a enough already?
What do you guys think about this?

Specifically, how did it "affect others?"

[ratagonia]

On the 17th my wife and i did pine creek and we couldn't help but smell marijuana periodically as we descended the canyon. I feel whatever your stance is on marijuana do it some place where it wont effect others! and besides doesn't canyoneering give you a high a enough already?
What do you guys think about this?

What do you mean by "where it wont effect others!"?

Did you get high from the fumes you were smelling?

Tom

C (poll)

[ratagonia]

Makes about as much sense as doing a canyon drunk. Personally, I want all my faculties in full play.

Uh, not really. (in application to the first sentence)


Do you guys have any experience with marijuana? You may be perhaps misinformed as to its effects.

Tom

[hank moon]

I feel whatever your stance is on marijuana do it some place where it wont effect others!

I place a few weedy wafts in the "minor annoyance" category. A major annoyance might be persistent loud yelling or trash. A major offense would be human fecal matter, large amounts of trash, etc.

As long as the tweeders pack out their weed-waste and don't create industrial levels of smoke, seems relatively harmless. Check your mental state for anti-weed judgment. If it's there, might it be needlessly affecting your pleasure?

C (poll)

[WorkBad]

I'm not sure how to answer this one, like the people above me I'm a little hazy on how this affected you. Plus I'd rather have pot smokers than noisy, obnoxious groups who scribble their names on the walls. On another note, a group behind us waiting for a rap in Larry last year busted out a can of beer each. Made me jealous as hell, looked soooooo darn good at the time slurping down their suds. I too generally want all my senses sharp though, and wouldn't partake.

[Skeeter]

Uh, not really. (in application to the first sentence)


Do you guys have any experience with marijuana? You may be perhaps misinformed as to its effects.

Tom

Exactly. I don't see a possibility of catching a contact high in a canyon. To each their own, I see no harm done.

[deagol]

The affect was that it leaves a smell that some people find annoying. No one has an issue sharing the canyon with "Pot smokers" but it's probably desired that they wouldn't smoke in the canyon where it is such a confined space. Colorado just legalized recreational MJ (as everyone knows) but it doesn't mean people should be smoking in confined spaces where others will be affected by the smoke (just smelling it is what I am saying, obviously no one is going to get high on it)

Edit: I have a good friend who lit up MJ after a backcountry ski day and I didn't care one bit, I was able to get away from the smoke since we were out in the open. In a deep canyon like Pine Creek, I wouldn't have been able to do that.

[Brian in SLC]

I dislike just about any kind of smoke...maybe I'm sensitive to it. As a contact lens wearer, it makes my eyes sore. I don't particularly like the smell, and, at some times, really don't like it.

I'd probably be more upset at smelling cigarette smoke, but, any smoke in the confined space of a slot canyon would be fairly annoying...and...really, very avoidable.

I find I'm constantly amazed at the lack of respect some user groups have for others. Whether its forcing your untrained and yapping dog on folks, leaving litter, being loud...smoking in confinced spaces fits into that catagory.

Heavy sigh...

[oldno7]

I think Alex just wanted to see who the bogley pot smokers were:haha:

[ststephen]

Been away from bogley for a while and I can see it's going up in smoke...:naughty:

I'm with Hank. This is a minor faux pas. Farting in a tight canyon could be worse, but also harder to avoid. It sounds like the smell was the only thing they did that impacted anyone else. Cigarettes would be worse in my opinion too: smell is harsher and possibility of trash increases.

As to the impairment issue, seems like we don't have any info to suggest they were impaired in any impactful way. I've been in plenty of canyons where someone had a puff of smoke or sip of alcohol in a responsible way. Personally, I prefer to wait to the end or perhaps the hike out to the car, but as long as folks are acting responsibly the mere fact they choose to imbibe is really a non issue IMO.

[Scott Card]

Part of my outdoor experience is the smell of it, along with the sight of it, the feel of it, the sound of it, and given the wrong pot hole, the taste of it. I too prefer to have an unobstructed experience with all my senses, not just visually. I prefer to not smell tobacco, marijuana or any other unnatural odor in a slot canyon.

[ststephen]

I agree Scott. I think it is a bit rude to stink up the canyon with weed. If it were folks I knew I would suggest they wait until the open area where folks take off wet suits.

[SRG]

To be considerate of others while smoking weed in a canyon.... get far away from other groups, put it out if you hear a group approaching, consider edibles, vaporizers or even a pipe instead of smoking a joint, wait for a break in the narrows when the canyon opens up.
There's a big difference between forcing a group to either wait or walk through your cloud of marijuana smoke in a confined environment versus leaving a smell lingering for a group who is coming through in 5 minutes. In my eyes the former is an etiquette faux-pa, the latter not so much so.

Regarding the effects of marijuana impairment on ones ability to canyoneer... I think it's different for everyone.
Last week a college student ate too much marijuana and jumped off a building to his death here in Denver, contrast this with a 2009 trip report (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?37252-TR-Sandthrax-revisited) where the group "medicates" multiples times while descending Sandthrax and it is apparent that MJ can have hugely different effects on different people... I'd say it's up to the individual to know their own body and mind.

[Kuya]

I can't even believe we are having this conversation. We all know that drugs and alcohol are not good for our bodies. I don't care who you are, you body is better without consuming that stuff, ever. especially while canyoneering. Just leave it home or in the truck to enjoy after the canyon if you must consume it. I don't need or want to deal with high or drunk canyoneers in a canyon. not ever.

[rockgremlin]

The affect was that it leaves a smell that some people find annoying...


So do farts....you should go online and complain about that too.

[oldno7]

Regarding the effects of marijuana impairment on ones ability to canyoneer... I think it's different for everyone.
Last week a college student ate too much marijuana and jumped off a building to his death here in Denver, contrast this with a 2009 trip report (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?37252-TR-Sandthrax-revisited) where the group "medicates" multiples times while descending Sandthrax and it is apparent that MJ can have hugely different effects on different people... I'd say it's up to the individual to know their own body and mind.

Said individual, medicated himself to an early death on a Colorado Mtn. if I recall....

[ratagonia]

I can't even believe we are having this conversation. We all know that drugs and alcohol are not good for our bodies. I don't care who you are, you body is better without consuming that stuff, ever. especially while canyoneering. Just leave it home or in the truck to enjoy after the canyon if you must consume it. I don't need or want to deal with high or drunk canyoneers in a canyon. not ever.

I think it is a Mark Twain quote:

"It's not so much the things that people don't know that screws things up. It's more the things they know that just aren't true!"


I realize you may think that True, Kuya. And I accept that the same is true for you, and likely most of the people you hang out with. But it is definitely not true for ALL members of this forum, including me.

Tom

[Kuya]

I think it is a Mark Twain quote:

"It's not so much the things that people don't know that screws things up. It's more the things they know that just aren't true!"


I realize you may think that True, Kuya. And I accept that the same is true for you, and likely most of the people you hang out with. But it is definitely not true for ALL members of this forum, including me.

Tom

Hi Tom. Feel free to do what you like after your adventure, but I'd rather not put my life in the hands of those who are "high" or "drunk" while we are in the canyon. Even if that person was as skilled as you. I would hope to high heaven that you don't go into canyons drunk or high!


Anyway... let's list some of the effects of drinking alcohol:

Slurred speech
Drowsiness
Vomiting
Diarrhea
Upset stomach
Headaches
Breathing difficulties
Distorted vision and hearing
Impaired judgment
Decreased perception and coordination
Unconsciousness
Anemia (loss of red blood cells)
Coma
Blackouts (memory lapses, where the drinker cannot remember events that occurred while under the influence)
Unintentional injuries such as car crash, falls, burns, drowning
Intentional injuries such as firearm injuries, sexual assault, domestic violence
Increased on-the-job injuries and loss of productivity
Increased family problems, broken relationships
Alcohol poisoning
High blood pressure, stroke, and other heart-related diseases
Liver disease
Nerve damage
Sexual problems
Permanent damage to the brain
Vitamin B1 deficiency, which can lead to a disorder characterized by amnesia, apathy and disorientation
Ulcers
Gastritis (inflammation of stomach walls)
Malnutrition
Cancer of the mouth and throat



While we are at it, lets list some the negative effects of Marijuana:

Poor memory and ability to learn
Difficulty in thinking and solving problems
Poor muscle coordination and judgment
Short attention span
Dangerous driving behavior
Altered sense of time and space
Food cravings
Hallucinations
Delusions
Poor memory
Not knowing where one is
Anxiety attacks or feelings of paranoia
Depression
Cancer. Marijuana contains the same cancer-causing chemicals found in tobacco smoke.
Breathing problems. It creates the same kinds of breathing problems that cigarettes do: coughing and wheezing.
Immune system. The THC in marijuana can damage the cells and tissues in the body that help protect against disease.
Memory, learning, and energy are impaired.
Fertility. Reproductive hormones are decreased. In men, there is less testosterone, causing decreased sperm counts and possible erectile dysfunction. In women, there may be irregular periods. Both problems would result in a decreased ability to conceive but not lead to complete infertility.
Birth defects in unborn children.



Man! These side effect sure do look like somthing I would want in my my life! especially when I get into technical canyons :facepalm1:


I don't personally have a problem with people who drink after a hard days work. I'll gladly sit around a campfire, or eat a nice dinner with friends who enjoy a beer or three... but to say that my health and fitness will be better off if I start drinking and doing drugs is nuts. I would like to see sound evidence of that claim. And to think that some in this community welcome it in trade route canyons is crazy too! the last thing I want to deal with is a bunch of drunk or "high" canyoneers in places like Pinecreek.

[deagol]

So do farts....you should go online and complain about that too.

I didn't start the thread..

[Brian in SLC]

Hi Tom. Feel free to do what you like after your adventure, but I'd rather not put my life in the hands of those who are "high" or "drunk" while we are in the canyon. Even if that person was as skilled as you. I would hope to high heaven that you don't go into canyons drunk or high!

Goodness! Everything in moderation I suppose, even being pious...

I could list the harmful effects of sugar...but...I guess I wouldn't go so far as to say I wouldn't care be in a canyon with people who consume it. That kind of broad over generalization just sounds close minded and ignorant.

So...instead of listing all the harmful effects of ignorance...I'll just link an article or two....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2146679/

http://www.bmj.com/content/334/7600/915.1

[mzamp]

A perfect time for these seldom used emoticons...
:smoking:
:boozer:

[Slot Machine]

You may be perhaps misinformed as to its effects.

Sure. About as misinformed as you are about math, physics or engineering.

Highness comes in as many different shades as drunkenness. They are not the same color, but they are both quite rangy.

Regardless, being sober seems like the only non-destructive 'shade' in a canyon. Please explain, Mr Tom, if you feel otherwise.

[Iceaxe]

I try not to waste my time worrying about what others do, I have enough to keep myself busy just keeping my life on track. I really wish I could take something, anything, meaningful away from this thread but I can't.

http://bogley.com/forum/files/china.gif

[Kuya]

I could list the harmful effects of sugar...but...I guess I wouldn't go so far as to say I wouldn't care be in a canyon with people who consume it. That kind of broad over generalization just sounds close minded and ignorant.

The difference here is that sugar doesn't impair your ability to think and perform. In a canyon sugar actually helps give you the energy needed to safely get through the canyon. On the flip side, even moderate amounts of alcohol or weed could make things dangerous.

I agree with you, being ignorant to issues, even sugar consumption, can be very bad for our health. but do you REALLY think is ok to descend into technical slot canyons when you're drunk or high? common guys, REALLY????

[Absolute Gravity]

Birth defects in unborn children.


Tom's child bearing years are well behind him.

[ratagonia]

Anyway... let's list some of the effects of drinking alcohol:





Well then, I must already be dead. Perhaps you should also mention zombieism!

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

The difference here is that sugar doesn't impair your ability to think and perform.

Oh, sure it does. "Sugar hinders proper absorption of many B vitamins into the body and its cells. B vitamins are necessary to endorse cognitive thinking, coordination, and memory."

Sugar is known to decrease concentration.

Sugar consumption will wash out the electrolytes in your body, causing you to cramp. Get a hand cramp while on rappel...and hope its not your brake hand.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/461051-how-does-junk-food-affect-the-way-you-concentrate/


"When you eat junk food, which is typically high in fat, sugar and calories, your body digests the foods fairly quickly. Since junk food has been stripped of nutrients, your body is forced to use the sugar as energy for your body. That energy is spent quickly because of the refined nature of junk food, which means you experience a temporary "sugar high," or false feeling of energy, that is quickly followed by a "sugar crash," or a sensation of fatigue, once your metabolism has burned all of the possible energy. This can lead to bouts of focus loss, fatigue and a loss of concentration."


I agree with you, being ignorant to issues, even sugar consumption, can be very bad for our health. but do you REALLY think is ok to descend into technical slot canyons when you're drunk or high? common guys, REALLY????

Drunk, as in, really drunk? Yeah, not good methinks. Moderate use? Probably not so bad. No big deal to me. I'd canyon with someone having an occasional PBR. Heck, a good micro brewed beer is a better post recovery beverage than chocolate milk. And, there's plenty of health benefits to moderate use.

From local fitness guru Steve Edwards: "No study I can find—and I look at a lot of studies—shows that not drinking is better for you than moderate drinking when it comes to life expectancy. Not one. In fact, one major study on nearly 2,000 subjects over a 20 year period showed that even excessive drinkers out live those who abstain (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-0277.2010.01286.x/pdf). Right on! Which way to the bar?"

Another fun article from Steve:

http://steveedwardsfitness.com/red-wine-hard-climbing-martinis/

Take it from Arnold..."milk is for babies...when you grow up, you drink beer."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXOGS9cilKM&

Preface this next section to mention that I'm not a pot smoker...really...I'm not. But, many folks at least in these "high risk" type activities like climbing, canyoneering, base jumping...are. And, some are chronic and common users. From my limited vantage point, it seems to increase their focus. And, there's studies out there that show an increase in focus and concentration.

Also gives some folks a huge boost in energy.

As well...some folks ingest it to avoid seizures...nausea...etc.

Speaking of sugar and insulin...:

Researchers analyzed 579 current marijuana smokers and found they had 16 percent lower fasting insulin levels than nonusers, and that their insulin resistance (a marker of diabetes) was reduced by 17 percent. (http://newhope360.com/health/top-weight-loss-news-2013#slide-4-field_images-565551)

Anyhoo...I have more than a few friends who I'd have absolutely no problem climbing, canyoneering, skiing, etc with who routinely "get high". Its just who and how they are. Most if not all pefform at a much higher (ha ha) level in any of these sports than I do.

[oldno7]

This thread reminds me of a song:haha:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr3TkOGgeJY

[Mojave Silence]

On the 17th my wife and i did pine creek and we couldn't help but smell marijuana periodically as we descended the canyon.

I didn't see anything in this thread to indicate it was actually someone descending the canyon who was smoking. Was the wind blowing up or down canyon? Could have easily been a hiker(s) who hiked up-canyon to the last rap. (?) :smoking:

[cmd19]

I had always wondered how long it would be until the heavy Mormon influence of this board came out....

If you don't want to do it, then don't. But don't get preachy on those that chose to do it. I don't chose to drink when I go canyoneering (or kayaking, or skiing) but I don't come down or judge people that do. It's each person's own choice. I choose to not put my life in someone's hands if I feel that they've had a little too much, but even one or two beers isn't something to be worried about.

Most of you who are decrying marijuana are doing it from a baseless standpoint using anecdotal evidence that you've heard from other people- usually people who are sensationalizing it in an attempt to make it out to be something it's not. Bottom line, if you haven't tried it, you have no right to judge those who do it.

I personally wouldn't think of going canyoneering, kayaking, or skiing and not smoking marijuana. As a lifelong sufferer of ADHD, I find that smoking marijuana sharpens my focus and allows me to concentrate better on the task at hand. I also suffer from bad arthritis and sometimes smoking a joint (or two) allows my hands to feel better about clenching the rope.

I consider smoking marijuana in amazing natural places to be my version of church and worship. Would you be insulted if I told you not to pray inside the temple, because it negatively effects me? Yes. And don't try to tell me "that it's different", because it's not. I am rather averse to Mormons in general, in how they operate on scales large and small, but I do not tell people not to practice Mormonism simply because it bothers me. We all have our own choices in this world, and I am pretty sure part of being an American is the ability to do what you choose, including religion. Just because I am in the state of Utah does not mean I am required to be of your religion. If my church is nature, and my worship is smoking a natural plant in nature, then who are you to tell me "it's wrong"? I don't get in your face and tell you not to be a Mormon, so don't get in my face and tell me this is.

There is a time and a place for all things, and I agree that you shouldn't be doing these things in tighter, more narrow sections of canyons. Wait until you get to an open area, or do it before you drop in. But don't presume to tell me what I should do and not do just because it is not what YOU choose to do.

I kayak roughly 60 days a year. I canyoneer roughly 30 days a year. I probably ski close to 80 days a year. This has been going on for at least seven years. And I've smoked marijuana on 99.9% of those trips. Has it ever impaired my judgement? Not once. In fact, it's probably HELPED my judgement on many occasions by making me slow down and analyze the situation a bit more than I normally would. There have been several incidents on these trips, injuries, wrecks, etc, that have all required immediate, crucial decision making because someone's life was in jeopardy, and has it ever once negatively affected that? Nope. Every time the shit hits the fan we come out on top, because we armed ourselves with the knowledge and skills to handle situations like that before we left. Smoking a joint mid canyon doesn't make you simply forget months and countless hours of preparation and practice.

It's been very interesting to see the responses from different members on here. Like someone said, I wonder if Alex was just trying to see who does what. Some of them have been surprising, others are more just confirming.

It sounds like some of you are way over-estimating the effects of some lingering second hand smoke on you. Just because you caught a whiff of it doesn't mean you are going to turn into a vegetable pothead. Just play through and get over it. Like someone said, better to deal with that than watch somebody scratch their name into a wall (of which I find large Mormon family groups to be the biggest perpetrators!)

This discussion has been enlightening and I am glad to see that it hasn't devolved into petty name calling and mud slinging, which is what would have happened on many other forums. However, I feel there is a lot of ignorant and ill-informed opinions floating around, that while are yours to have freely, are not necessarily true. It is my hope that those of you who are ranting and rallying against this will realize that it isn't the complete evil that it is made out to be, and that those who chose to use it are actually quite safe, normal, and unaffected by it.

Just my two cents. And like Ice always says.....YMMV.

[Byron]

I'll out hike, out climb, out bike, out canyoneer any man east of ol'e kentuck!!!


73197

[Sombeech]

I'll out hike, out climb, out bike, out canyoneer any man east of ol'e kentuck!!!


73197

Well, I mean like, it can wait though, it doesn't hafta be like right now


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Scott Card]

I had always wondered how long it would be until the heavy Mormon influence of this board came out....

I am rather averse to Mormons in general, in how they operate on scales large and small, but I do not tell people not to practice Mormonism simply because it bothers me. We all have our own choices in this world, and I am pretty sure part of being an American is the ability to do what you choose, including religion. Just because I am in the state of Utah does not mean I am required to be of your religion. If my church is nature, and my worship is smoking a natural plant in nature, then who are you to tell me "it's wrong"? I don't get in your face and tell you not to be a Mormon, so don't get in my face and tell me this is.
.
:facepalm1: I missed the "Mormon" part of the thread. Seems like you were just waiting for an opportunity to pounce when there was nothing to pounce on. Being anti marijuana does not make one Mormon. Being anti smoke in a canyon does not make one Mormon. :crazycobasa:

[deagol]

..... ....... Being anti smoke in a canyon does not make one.....

I would also add to this: being anti smoke (MJ or other kind of smoke) in a canyon (confined space) does not make one anti MJ. I don't care if you smoke, I just don't want to smell it, or have to breathe it in... That is all.

[cmd19]

:facepalm1: I missed the "Mormon" part of the thread. Seems like you were just waiting for an opportunity to pounce when there was nothing to pounce on. Being anti marijuana does not make one Mormon. Being anti smoke in a canyon does not make one Mormon. :crazycobasa:

I am not trying to say that being anti-weed makes you a Mormon. It's no secret this board is chock full of Mormons who regularly issue comments about "praising God for creating these blessed canyons" and the like. But I don't rise up and tell you you are all full of shit; I nod and move on. Why can't you guys do the same?

I am trying to say that while the Mormon religion bothers me, you don't see or hear me blasting people who chose to do it (without provocation). Don't like people smoking? Fine, no big deal. But keep it to yourself. I find it quite bothersome to be in a slot canyon and see a family with fourteen kids (who are usually out of control and all over the place, scratching tic-tac-toe games into the rock and generally being nuisances) come around the corner. But do you see me blasting on the internet about it? No. I smile, and I play through. This is no different. You might say, "don't like to see the families out in the canyons? then stay home!" To which I will reply, "don't want to deal with an occasional smoke puff in the canyons? then stay home!" It's a two way street. I will respect your wishes, religion, and life, IF you respect mine. Telling me how I am wrong to do it and assuming I should want to live my life the way you do is not giving respect.

"Kuya"'s comments were quite childish and offensive to me, just as some of you find the weed smoking to be offensive. So, if you guys are going to bitch, so will I. But I am not going to stop.

Just as you are not going to stop going to temple and praying simply because I don't agree with your religion.

You are getting very offended over some very simple comments that are not meant to be anything other than a clear case of "you mind your own business and I will mind mine."

No, being anti-marijuana does not make one a Mormon. However, being preachy and assuming that everyone would be better off doing what YOU chose to do is a very quintessential Mormon attitude. So it is OK for you to bring up and complain about what you find offensive but when someone voices a dissenting opinion then it's suddenly not ok? Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

[Scott P]

I find it quite bothersome to be in a slot canyon and see a family with fourteen kids (who are usually out of control and all over the place, scratching tic-tac-toe games into the rock and generally being nuisances) come around the corner. But do you see me blasting on the internet about it?

If they are carving in the rock, you should.


However, being preachy and assuming that everyone would be better off doing what YOU chose to do is a very quintessential Mormon attitude.

That's what many humans do (Bogley is a good example), not just Mormons. That's why there are bolt debates, political debates, environmental debates, etc.

[hank moon]

I don't rise up and tell you you are all full of shit; I nod and move on. Why can't you guys do the same?


So, if you guys are going to bitch, so will I.

Compartmentalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartmentalization_%28psychology%29) in words.

Bitching about bitching = bitching. That's not new math.

"Do unto others as they do unto you" is not the Golden Rule.

etc.

[cmd19]

OK, I get it. Your opinions matter, not other peoples. There is no concept of "you respect my choices and life and I respect yours", instead its "you agree with us or you are wrong". Funny, I always thought (and was told from everyone I know) that respect = respect, and that that IS the golden rule. But here respect means you agree with us or you are wrong. Gotcha.

If this is how the prevailing attitude is going to be, then so be it. You guys win. I'm not going to waste my day trying to fight an uphill battle against people who expect others to listen to and agree with them but wont let them voice an opposing opinion. I'd rather spend my time being wrong and living my life of shame as a heathen anyway. Off to go kill and rape and steal, because that's what marijuana smokers apparently do these days!

[Scott P]

cmd19 just demonstrated why it's a good idea not to post on Bogely while you are high on pot. :haha:

[hank moon]

OK, I get it. Your opinions matter, not other peoples. There is no concept of "you respect my choices and life and I respect yours", instead its "you agree with us or you are wrong". Funny, I always thought (and was told from everyone I know) that respect = respect and that is the golden rule. But here respect means you agree with us or you are wrong. Gotcha.

The Golden Rule is not co-dependent. It is not a social contract. It instructs you and I to DO something, independent of what others are doing.

True, there is no concept of "you do something and I'll do something back" (the old backscratch rule). That is a failed concept.

What works is: You (or I) just do what is right. What others do is of no concern.

It took me a long time to realize the truth of that. Still working on implementation. :)

Good luck to you, my friend!

[cmd19]

I actually haven't smoked pot in over a week.....But if you made yourself giggle with your "joke" then I'm happy I could help.

[cmd19]

Ah, but who's the one to say what is "right"? You?

[cmd19]

OK. I have to go to work. Last post. I get it. You guys know what is "right", and your thoughts and opinions are the correct ones, and it is wrong of me to even think outside those clear cut lines.

Sorry to have even dared to bring up the idea of -gasp!- someone else having their own opinion on something. How stupid of me. I promise I wont let it happen again.

[hank moon]

Ah, but who's the one to say what is "right"? You?

Of course not. That is up to you. We are all trying to do what is right.

It is useful when trying to do so to be aware of splits in one's thinking, such as the one I pointed out above (i just nod and move on/you bitch and so will I)

This is an alert that a real decision has not been made about what the "right thing" is.

We all do this, so we have sayings like "Do as I say, not as I do" to make light of the fact that we are all divided in our thoughts and being.

C'est la vie...

hank

[mzamp]

Weird! During freeze fest I didn't see any of the 40+ participants wearing their garments when suiting up for the black hole. As far as people toking up??? I don't know! What happens at freeze fest stays at freeze fest...unless Tom posts it on his latest Rave. :pope:

[Scott Card]

When you seek tolerance from others, it is not really helpful to your plea/argument to sound like a bigot. Let me change a word or two of your quote to demonstrate how you are sounding.
I had always wondered how long it would be until the heavy influence of this board came out....

I am rather averse to [Blacks] in general, in how they operate on scales large and small, but I do not tell people not to [associate with Blacks] simply because it bothers me. We all have our own choices in this world, and I am pretty sure part of being an American is the ability to [be] what you choose, including [race]. Just because I am in the state of [Alabama] does not mean I am required to [act like your race].[B] If my [race] is [white], and my worship is [wearing a white pointy hat], then who are you to tell me "it's wrong"? I don't get in your face and tell you not to be [white], so don't get in my face and tell me [act black].



Not the perfect comparison but I hope you get the point of how your random comment about religion sounded to water-down some otherwise valid points. I don't see anyone on here condemning you or others for your choice to smoke. Whether I agree with your choice or not has never been brought up nor has religion been an issue until you made it one. The issue is Marijuana smoke in a canyon not the ills vs. benefits of it. Some see smoke in canyons as a minor inconvenience, some like me don't want our wilderness experience muddled by marijuana smoke, and some find it unthinkable to be in any way high/buzzed/inebriated in a canyon ( which is off topic - but hey at least it is somewhat related).

[Scott Card]

OK. I have to go to work. Last post. I get it. You guys know what is "right", and your thoughts and opinions are the correct ones, and it is wrong of me to even think outside those clear cut lines.

Sorry to have even dared to bring up the idea of -gasp!- someone else having their own opinion on something. How stupid of me. I promise I wont let it happen again.:facepalm1:

[rnelson]

Don't see much harm in it, personally.

...What ticks me off is seeing trash left in canyons.

[jman]

Don't see much harm in it, personally.

...What ticks me off is seeing trash left in canyons.

Well the question has to be asked - do you pick it up then? If you see somebody leaving trash behind do you pick it up or say something?

Reminds me of when I was in line for the Batman - Dark Knight midnight movie premier in Layton City. We were all outside the building about 30 minutes before it was about to start when we all witnessed a young lady throwing a empty Mountain Dew bottle behind her back into the parking lot. Everybody saw it, but nobody said anything. Not a word, Including myself, which I now kick myself whenever I think of this story for not saying anything to her.

A member once said here that has been stuck with me ever since, and that is "vandalism (graffiti and trash is included) begets vandalism". If people see trash or graffiti, they are much more likely to leave other trash and leave more graffiti in the same area.

/sidenote.

[AlexGeorge]

Accidental post see full comment below (not sure how to delete a post?)

[ratagonia]

However, being preachy and assuming that everyone would be better off doing what YOU chose to do is a very quintessential Mormon attitude. So it is OK for you to bring up and complain about what you find offensive but when someone voices a dissenting opinion then it's suddenly not ok? Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Hmmmm.

I am not exactly Mormon (being an evangelical Atheist). I have lived in Utah since 1991. My experience is quite the opposite. Nowhere else have I lived has the general population been so respectful of my opinions and our differences.

If anything, what I find is that living in a relatively homogeneous community tends to solidify people in their political and social views. If all your friends believe the same thing, then it must be true, right? I do crusade against this at times on Bogley, which I'm sure has rubbed a few people the wrong way. But this is not a faith-based problem (though obviously some can interpret it that way) - it is a lack-of-breadth of experience leading to righteousness and lack of empathy problem.

Tom

[AlexGeorge]

Wow didn't expect this much of a discussion over this
1: Did it impair our ability? NO
2. Are there worse things that could happen? Duh obviously! however, i feel its an issue worth bringing up
3 Are farts worse? haha in the short term yes! however i don't know anyone who has bad enough farts to marinate a canyon so people would smell hours later!
Conclusion: Take the controversial subject of marijuana out of the mix! THE PROBLEM WAS THE AROMA!! This was my wife's first canyoneering trip ever. I JUST WISH as she stared at the grandeur of the classic cathedral room that she wouldn't have been distracted by an unnatural strong smell that somebody left there. Did we still have a blast? yes! did it ruin our trip? NO

ITS AS SIMPLE AS LEAVE NO TRACE!

[oldno7]

What amazes me the most, here, is a guy comes to bogley and has us all figured out in 7 posts.

I've been here 7+ years and still don't quite have us all figured out.(but I'm getting closer):mrgreen:

[Scott Card]

I've been here 7+ years and still don't quite have us all figured out.(but I'm getting closer):mrgreen: Well yah, with Tom Jones changing his religious affiliation every year.... confusing! :haha:

[ratagonia]

Well yah, with Tom Jones changing his religious affiliation every year.... confusing! :haha:

What was I last year?

I don't remember - not such a good short term memory these days.

Tom

[oldno7]

What was I last year?

I don't remember - not such a good short term memory these days.

Tom

spaghetti monster??

or was that Dan's religion?

[Scott P]

What was I last year?

I don't remember - not such a good short term memory these days.

I don't know, but you have to admit that Elder Ratagonia has such a nice ring to it.

[deagol]

I am considering becoming a Pastafarian (http://www.venganza.org/about/) after this thread.

[qedcook]

Wow! This is a perfect thread for a troll like me! Maybe this should be moved to the political section? (Trolling!)

[ratagonia]

Wow! This is a perfect thread for a troll like me! Maybe this should be moved to the political section? (Trolling!)

So sorry you didn't get in on it earlier... guess the early bird gets the worm.

:moses:

[Otis]

This thread is about beat to death so I will try and get my kicks in while I can. Something as simple as a bad smell should not bother people, period. In Wisconsin you drive through plenty of towns that smell terrible because of paper mills, and Iowa smells terrible because of fertilizing, Greeley, CO smells like the worst place on earth. Nobody thinks they smell good, but anyone who is employed in these areas think it smells like money. I realize that a pot smell is different than the ones I listed... Point is we all have to deal with smells we don't like but they make other people happy.

In addition to that, four weeks ago me and another experienced canyonero took 3 beginners through arsenic and slideanide while enjoying a couple beers and a puff. One of the beginners was a 21 year old college kid and ROTC cadet. His attitude towards MJ was negative prior to this trip, however afterwards his attitude was completely different. He didn't smoke at all mind you. When he realized the truth that people can be responsible, function, and know their limitations, while still focusing and safely completing the task at hand changed his viewpoint.

I am also sorry to say that two days ago this brilliant, motivated young man met his maker in a motorcycle accident caused by a sober 41 year old woman. So anyone who has a problem with canyoneering and a little bit of weed or a beer can get right off their high horse and pray they don't ever kill or injure someone doing something as mundane as driving.

[hank moon]

This thread is about beat to death so I will try and get my kicks in while I can.

I'm not putting down the switch just yet :)

How about a poll? See below, then go back to your first post in the thread, and edit it with the appropriate letter added at the bottom (big and bold, if you please). Or just do a new post, if you want. As a refresher, this is about encountering a relatively mild "whiff" of pot smoke in Pine Creek canyon.

I'm a 'C' (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?71953-Smoking-Weed-in-Pine-Creek&p=556229&viewfull=1#post556229)

hank

A i welcome it: ahhh...more smoke, please
B meh: pretty neutral, actually
C mild annoyance: wish it wasn't there, but no big deal
D major annoyance: significantly affects my experience
E major offense: intolerable; feeling that the smokers should somehow be punished

p.s. i think this type of poll is more interesting than the anonymous-click variety

[deagol]

I am at about halfway between C & D. If it's out in the open, I am at B

[Byron]

I was in Zion last summer for a week and I didn't have any ganja with me. I'll be there for a week this summer as well, but this time I'll certainly bring a stash...and I'll smoke it, too! I'll laugh in the face of anyone who gives me a hard time about it.

If I were to go through Mystery, and ran into someone at the last rap smoking a cigarette, a cigar, a pipe, weed, or cooking lunch, or sitting in a lotus position burning incense and chanting, I wouldn't be bothered at all. It's none of my business.

Just don't take a dump where I can see it.

Funny thing about pot, and people's misunderstanding of it. If you're driving, somebody who's drunk is pretty obvious, but you could be surrounded by people that are stoned, and you'd never know it. I think the world would be a better place if more people would do two things...smoke weed occasionally and watch South Park.

[Scott P]

I would choose between C and D depending on how much smoke there was.

I'm similar to Brian C:

I dislike just about any kind of smoke...maybe I'm sensitive to it. As a contact lens wearer, it makes my eyes sore. I don't particularly like the smell, and, at some times, really don't like it.

I'd probably be more upset at smelling cigarette smoke, but, any smoke in the confined space of a slot canyon would be fairly annoying...and...really, very avoidable.

I find I'm constantly amazed at the lack of respect some user groups have for others. Whether its forcing your untrained and yapping dog on folks, leaving litter, being loud...smoking in confined spaces fits into that catagory.

I don't know about pot smoke, but cigarette smoke really kicks up my allergies in a bad way and (literally) makes me sick (I could never smoke regardless of any religion). If it's just the after smell, maybe not, but the actually smoke does. One I got seated next to a cigar smoker on a plane flight and it seriously made me sick.

That said as Brian C points out, smoking isn't the only thing people can do to as a lack of respect. I'm not the camp that anyone can do what they want out there as long as it doesn't affect someone else. If you are in a remote canyon with little chance of running into others, have at it!

[Sombeech]

I actually enjoy the occasional whiff of the ganja. What I don't like is if the smoker is doing it to purposely try and show how cool or open minded they are by merely smoking it.

I would much rather smell marijuana than tobacco.

And yeah, I'm a Mormon, as if that really had anything to do with it. :facepalm1:







http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-565qeu1URDM/Uey4DHutiRI/AAAAAAAABNs/YsJZ4OXxv7E/s320/Mic+drop.gif

[ststephen]

Greatly prefer pot to tobacco as well. Both when I'm smelling it and smoking it :naughty:

But I actually don't think we should stink up confined canyon areas with either. So, to your survey it really depends on the strength and how confined a space it is. If it truly is a "mild whiff" I feel like B. But as the strength goes up and I know it's not going to clear for hours then, while it doesn't bother me personally, I cringe knowing that my fellow smokers are not being good citizens and move into the C category.

[hank moon]

I actually enjoy the occasional whiff of the ganja. What I don't like is if the smoker is doing it to purposely try and show how cool or open minded they are by merely smoking it.

I would much rather smell marijuana than tobacco.

And yeah, I'm a Mormon, as if that really had anything to do with it. :facepalm1:



Rastamormian! 73203

[rockgremlin]

While we are at it, lets list some the negative effects of Marijuana:


Altered sense of time and space
Food cravings
Hallucinations
Not knowing where one is






Wait these are considered negative? :haha:

Where did you get your data for supposed side effects from smoking grass? There is some evidence out there that supports marijuana actually killing Cancer cells, instead of the other way around like you suggested.

In terms of negative side effects, alcohol beats MJ hands down.

[mzamp]

How did smelling pot turn into walking through second hand smoke?

How do we know they smelled pot at all? Maybe they were chasing a traped skunk down canyon?

Maybe the solution is to put down the pipe and eat some shrooms? Those are all natural too. :naughty:

[2065toyota]

I just hope nobody pulls out a water vapor ecig. Those are the most offensive. The state of California government told me so.