Help choosing between canyons

[mcweyen]

In May, our group from Boise, Idaho is headed down for 10 days, eight of which we will be able to canyoneer (it's a long drive). We will be in a few different areas. I'm wondering if we should allocate an extra day in the Salt Wash area (The Squeeze, Cable, Quandary, Knotted Rope) or Capitol Reef (Burro Wash, Cottonwood Wash)? One of those canyons is going to have to be bumped out and I'm wondering which one it should be.

[Scott P]

Hmmm, tough decision. I have done all those and like them all.

One factor is the car shuttle. Burro and Cottonwood are probably better with them.

For slots, I'd say that Burro and Cottonwood have overall better slots than those other ones, but on the other hand, the potholes are really interesting in the San Rafael canyons.

You can't really go wrong with either choice.

Edit:

After reading closer you are just looking for which one of the canyons above to skip? I'm tempted to say Knotted Rope, though I still like it and the views on the approach are fantastic. Burro and Cottonwood are very similar as well, though I really like both.

I guess if I'd have to choose only one to skip, it would be Knotted Rope even though I really like it.

[mcweyen]

Awesome response! Thank you much! That's actually the one I was leaning towards. Can't wait to get out of dodge and see these amazing places!

[TommyBoy]

I've never done it so I can't say how difficult it is, but it is possible to descend quandary and ascend knotted rope as a loop. That way you wouldn't have to eliminate knotted rope from your schedule.

[mcweyen]

Fantastic idea! That just might have to be what we do!! Super stoked!

[Slot Machine]

Fantastic idea! That just might have to be what we do!! Super stoked!

Going up Knotted would be pretty difficult. Also, ascending a canyon at the end of the day seems like a good way to get trapped in the dark.

another option:

Starting from the Factory Butte side,

Go up the Quandary bypass, down Quandary Direct, up the bypass a second time to the top of Quandary, over to Knotted Rope, then down Knotted Rope.

It's something like a 13 hour day and requires a real climber to lead one (maybe two?) tough upclimbs in Quandary.

[Iceaxe]

I've done them all.... if I was going to bump one it would probably be Cable or Cottonwood Wash.

A couple things to consider.... I believe Cable loses a lot of it's charm when dry, but when full of water it's a blast.

A group of talented canyoneers can easily see most the good stuff in Cottonwood by hiking up from the bottom. When you hit the dry falls just back up a couple hundred yards and you can climb around them (on the south side). On the way back down you can rap all the dry falls. Doing Cottonwood this way only takes 3 or 4 hours, so it's possible to do a complete Burro and a Cottonwood bottom up in the same day.

FWIW: This picture taken in Cable several years ago by a member of Bogley is one of my all time favorite canyoneering pictures.

72263

[Iceaxe]

Starting from the Factory Butte side,

Go up the Quandary bypass, down Quandary Direct, up the bypass a second time to the top of Quandary, over to Knotted Rope, then down Knotted Rope.

It's something like a 13 hour day and requires a real climber to lead one (maybe two?) tough upclimbs in Quandary.

The Quandary by-pass climbs are easy enough.... but finding the by-pass route from the bottom if you are not familiar with it could be really difficult. I would advise against this option.

If you really want to combo the Knotted Rope/Quandary route I'd suggest starting from Factory Butte (bottom side). Than if you have trouble getting up Knotted Rope it's no big deal, you turn around and go home. It also puts the more difficult up Knotted Rope in the morning when you are fresh. Doing the route this way should also make the day a more manageable 8 to 10 hours.

[mcweyen]

We'll be doing everything from the Factory Butte side. The up Knotted Rope, down Quadary Direct sounds really great! I've got a gps and have dotted the bejezers out of the route. We "should" be good on route finding. That shot in Cable is amazing!!!!

[Iceaxe]

Here is my all time favorite pic of Quandary, I took this one.... it really shows the giant potholes.

72264

[Slot Machine]

When going up Knotted, how does one defeat this pothole?

72265

[Kuya]

When going up Knotted, how does one defeat this pothole?

72265

Easy, you climb out! ;)

[SRG]

Here is my all time favorite pic of Quandary

Damnnnn, that is an awesome picture :2thumbs:

[Iceaxe]

When going up Knotted, how does one defeat this pothole?

I never enter that pothole.

We defeat it using the same method going up or down.... climb around to the west side. There are some descent handholds were the two different sandstone layers meet. After the first guy is across we set a handline for those following. Back in the day when the pipes were common we would just pole vault this pothole, which was super easy as you could vault up or down stream... I've also seen this pothole when it's just a swim and you would never know it's there.


72266

FWIW: That is the pothole the lady died in a few years back. They were doing the climb around and she fell into the pothole. Her husband couldn't get her out and she died of exposure. Full story here: http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?26661

:cool2:

[Iceaxe]

Opps.... the pothole I listed is the difficult crux pothole. The pothole Slot Machine listed was never an issue as we just climbed out up the watercourse.

This picture gives you a little better look as the actual watercourse is obscured in Slot Machines picture.

72267

[Slot Machine]

Ice, the pothole in your photo is not one in question.

It would take a very talented person to reach those ledges (RDC) without a pole vault. This could pose a serious problem for mcweyen. The distance from the photographer to the ledge is futher than it looks.

As of last fall there wasn't a pipe anywhere near this pothole and that water was about 6-7 feet deep. Perhaps a shoulder stand would work, boosting a teammate into the crease on the right (LDC). :hmm2:

____

Edit : photo #2 is the pothole in question, with maybe 2 feet of extra water.

[Iceaxe]

Ice, the pothole in your photo is not one in question.

Damn you're slow.... read the post above yours.... :mrgreen:

The pothole in your picture is not a big issue.

[Slot Machine]

The pothole in your picture is not a big issue.

Perhaps much of the canyon has eroded since your last visit. :fitz: :haha:

It is a full 12 feet from the sandy bottom to the exit lip. Micah jumped from the lowest perch possible, the spot where an upclimber would have to reach.

Just. Sayin.

[Scott P]

The pothole in your picture is not a big issue.

It changes. It was pretty challenging the first time I went through, easy the other times. It depends on how much water and sand is or isn't in the pothole.

[Skeeter]

Cool to see others from Boise. Do you guys ever do local canyons, I.E. poison creek?

[Slot Machine]

I have been told that Knotted Rope has stopped people going down the canyon when the potholes have been flushed clean of sand, but that was a long time ago.

The sand level seemed low when we went through last fall. Fun going downstream, but I'd bet very difficult going up. "Turning around and going home" is a big deal to me. Wasting a canyon day is a crime!

:soapbox: :haha:

[Iceaxe]

I have been told that Knotted Rope has stopped people going down the canyon when the potholes have been flushed clean of sand, but that was a long time ago.

Same old story.... it's all pretty easy so long as you are not outside your skill set.

The only folks Knotted Rope has ever stopped is those who were not prepared.



Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Absolute Gravity]

Going up Quandary bypass, then down direct and back up bypass then down Knotted Rope was one of my favorite days canyoneering.

Quandary generally wasn't that great, however the Direct portion, as short as it is, is fantastic. Also, the view of Direct while going up the bypass (like Shane's pic) is one of my top 'this is absolutely amazing' canyoneering views.

I thought Knotted Rope was a riot, and was damn near giddy. It was completely full of water though. I think Bob had other experiences with it low.

If they are both full of water and you can navigate up Quandary I couldn't recommend it enough. Defer to Shane as he is the expert here though. I was shown the way by Tom so it probably isn't as easy to find your way up as I remember it.

It is a long hike, I believe it was around 11 hours with 4ish hours of suck and the rest super fun.

[Taylor]

A comment related to your original post: You have The Squeeze on your list. If your group hasn't done it yet, do not miss this canyon! The Squeeze is absolutely fantastic. I have done Quandary a few times and it's good wet or dry. When full of water(last year) we jumped and splashed through the direct section. When dry, there are some very good potholes to overcome.

If you're choosing between Capitol and the Swell, save Capitol Reef for another year. YMMV

[Iceaxe]

"Turning around and going home" is a big deal to me. Wasting a canyon day is a crime!

Just a quick heads up.... that attitude is probably the number one reason for search and rescue.

It is often combined with questionable weather, preparation or skills, which combine to form the perfect recipe for disaster.

Sometimes it's wise to pack up and live to play another day.

YMMV




Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[mcweyen]

Does this crack go through? Can this be part of the bypass?

72284

[Absolute Gravity]

The bypass allows you to go around just the section of big, deep, potholes and is a good mile south of the point you have marked.

72285

[mcweyen]

Awesome, thank you much! Wasn't seeing it on any of the routed maps I've looked at.

[ratagonia]

Going up Quandary bypass, then down direct and back up bypass then down Knotted Rope was one of my favorite days canyoneering.

Quandary generally wasn't that great, however the Direct portion, as short as it is, is fantastic. Also, the view of Direct while going up the bypass (like Shane's pic) is one of my top 'this is absolutely amazing' canyoneering views.

I thought Knotted Rope was a riot, and was damn near giddy. It was completely full of water though. I think Bob had other experiences with it low.

If they are both full of water and you can navigate up Quandary I couldn't recommend it enough. Defer to Shane as he is the expert here though. I was shown the way by Tom so it probably isn't as easy to find your way up as I remember it.

It is a long hike, I believe it was around 11 hours with 4ish hours of suck and the rest super fun.

Actually, RAM showed US that up-route, which I had not done before. It is a classic Ram route, finding clever ways to sneak around the difficulties. I would not be tempted to try to describe it. I think it is unlikely for someone to find it without a good description from Ram, though I think I could find it if I was physically there.

Knotted Rope is a hoot when full of water. Not as full, not so much fun. I agree with Bob that getting UP Knotted Rope could easily be a no-go. Although you might be able to reverse my ridge-walk route: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/images/stories/PDFs/Swell/SouthernReef/KnottedRidgewalk.pdf

However, my suggestion would be to do Quandary Direct. If it works well and is almost full, then perhaps Knotted Rope. Both better to do from Hidden Splendor, as is The Squeeze via the Miner's Route. Enough information for that here: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/canyoneering-utahs-san-rafael-swell-the-squeeze-quandary-sept-2012/

Tom

[Iceaxe]

Going up Knotted Rope is not something every overweight middle-aged weekend canyoneer and his girlfriend is going to be successful at.

Going up Knotted Rope is how you separate the players from the posers ;-)

It's a fun test piece with little downside for failure other than damaged pride.




Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[mcweyen]

On this trip, we'll have some legit and some who might not make it. If I were to cherry pick the crew, we'd get through, but I'm going to play it safe after what I've read here and go the Ramp Canyon route. Us Boise people get so few days in the awesome Utah canyons that a wasted day would really be a bum deal. I think we'll add a little onto the Quandary day and go to the top of the Reef where Knotted Rope starts just for the view. Since we only have three days in the area, I think Quandary, The Squeeze and Cable is the way to go. It also fits our overall course of travel of the whole trip to do Factory Butte over Hidden Splendor. Thanks for all the advice!! Much appreciated!

[Absolute Gravity]

Actually, RAM showed US that up-route, which I had not done before. It is a classic Ram route, finding clever ways to sneak around the difficulties.

That's pretty funny. I remember you two taking different paths up certain parts of the route and I followed you, thinking it was your route and you knew the best way up.

[ratagonia]

That's pretty funny. I remember you two taking different paths up certain parts of the route and I followed you, thinking it was your route and you knew the best way up.

Except in Zion, when given a choice of following Ram or following me, follow Ram.

I often choose routes that are less-steep, as Ram is stronger than me.

Tom