Anybody done Waterholes Cyn?

[Erik B]

From what I've read Waterholes is a classic. Comments?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the "Big Drop" sequence. It sounds a little tricky. More or less intimidating than the Heaps sequence?

It sounds like there are two smaller rappels to reach the "Edge of the world" changeover ledge right? Are we talking mid-wall bolts or is this a stand-able platform? How many do each ledge fit? Anybody have pictures?

The last rap is 300+ feet right? I've seen it estimated at 310ft, ive seen 320ft. Which is it?!?!? I've got 300 foot of Canyon C-IV which means I'm either going to need to get creative or pony up and buy a longer rope. ugh... suggestions?

[TommyBoy]

I don't know about the last drop, but because of the road closure there is a really long car shuttle at the moment that is a pain in the ass.

[Scott P]

One thing to be aware of that whether or not the canyon (Lower Waterholes) is currently "open" changes frequently and at the drop of a hat. You will want to see if they are issuing permits before driving down there.

Other than that, I can't provide personal experience about the big drop as I have only done the parts of Waterhole above the highway. The lower canyon has been close when I've been there.

The link below has information on the big rap that was updated last November and has lots of photographs.

http://www.summitpost.org/waterholes-canyon/716826#chapter_5

[townsend]

Here is some more info to check (in addition to the info from summitpost):

1) http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0902wa/index.htm
This is Tom Jones trip report, with pictures. IIRC, Tom has placed bolts at the top of the last big drop to avoid the rope-eating crack.

2) http://www.bluugnome.com//cyn_route/grand-cyn_lower-water-holes/grand-cyn_lower-water-holes.aspx
Luke's trip report also have lots of important information, including a link (to Eric's trip report) that involves a bypass route.

I've read all this stuff several times in the past (some time ago). The bypass sounds fascinating, but I think it's also quite difficult according to those who have done it. I think most don't advise using the mid-wall station because, among other things, it isn't directly in the line of the long drop (off to the side somewhat?).

And I assume you know that once you finish the canyon, you got to get down to Lee's Ferry, either by 1) pack rafting or 2) having someone meet you to ferry you down the river.

[Erik B]

(Lower Waterholes) is currently "open" changes frequently and at the drop of a hat. You will want to see if they are issuing permits before driving down there.

Thanks for the suggestion. I was starting to understand that. I saw one post that stated that lower waterholes was closed in 2007 but I've seen TONS of trip reports since that time. It was a bit of a head scratcher. We will be in the Lee's Ferry area anyways post Paria backpacking trip.

[Bshelton]

The bypass route isn't bad at all. In fact it's quite easy to navigate and several fun drops. The most difficult part is locating the first bolt station of the sequence.

[schrods]

Here are a couple vids on what that "Edge of the World" anchor is like.

Jump to 4:40 in this vid: http://youtu.be/bdXrAwVuwIU

POV of the footing: http://youtu.be/TZvGXDIuYPc

Anchor showing 2 people at the station. Jump to 7:04: http://youtu.be/Bm7DlmRnbBw

We applied for a permit last April with plans to do it early May '13, but were unable to do WaterHoles due to an ankle injury ( sustained in Cassidy earlier in our trip) slowing down my friends canyon pace. Permit process was easy and was proceeded with a phone call to ascertain your expertise in canyoneering and to make sure you had adequate plans for a successful exit before it was issued.

We're planning another shot at it when we get back down to Page next year.

[ratagonia]

Here are a couple vids on what that "Edge of the World" anchor is like.

Jump to 4:40 in this vid: http://youtu.be/bdXrAwVuwIU

POV of the footing: http://youtu.be/TZvGXDIuYPc

Anchor showing 2 people at the station. Jump to 7:04: http://youtu.be/Bm7DlmRnbBw



3:50 on the first one shows the approach to the 'new anchor' nicely. Shame to see all the junk up there still, and the circus-style multi-slings on the bolts. I hope each party will pack out some of the junk each time they pass through, and also re-rig the anchors when they get junky.

Video 2 does a good job of showing that you need to take care when dangling your pack. Is that a non-locking carabiner on there??? Yikes! May I suggest you only use a non-locking carabiner on thinks you don't mind having fall onto your head from 300 feet. Which for most people will be not much.

And just to be clear, bringing a longer rope and not using the Edge of the World anchor will make you part of the rope-exchange program. The point of the Edge of the World anchor was to move the anchor point away from the crack, so the rope would not get stuck, which I think the original Banditos probably knew, but subsequent fools disregarded (if I read the bolt studs at the Edge of the World anchor point correctly).

Tom

[ratagonia]

Thanks for the suggestion. I was starting to understand that. I saw one post that stated that lower waterholes was closed in 2007 but I've seen TONS of trip reports since that time. It was a bit of a head scratcher. We will be in the Lee's Ferry area anyways post Paria backpacking trip.

We were headed off to do it in 2007, but some Belagana drove his car over the edge into the canyon, and they closed the canyon for a few days. The weather was not that good anyway!

Tom

[TommyBoy]

Video 2 does a good job of showing that you need to take care when dangling your pack. Is that a non-locking carabiner on there??? Yikes! May I suggest you only use a non-locking carabiner on thinks you don't mind having fall onto your head from 300 feet. Which for most people will be not much.
Tom

If the pack is dangling then it wont be dropping on his head anyway. The real question is how much does he like his friends below.:naughty:

[Scott P]

We were headed off to do it in 2007, but some Belagana drove his car over the edge into the canyon, and they closed the canyon for a few days.

Tom, if interested, Lower Waterholes has actually been closed several times and for long periods. I believe it was officially closed for most of 2011, for example, which was the last time I attempted to get a permit. I'm not sure the reason why it opens and closes periodically.

[Erik B]

Fantastic beta guys! Really, all of you, thanks! I've emailed Navajo Parks & Recreation about the permits. Haven't heard back...ugh. Were hoping for end of March on this guy.


So just to be crystal clear....300 foot rope at "Edge of the World" anchors....good?

[schrods]

Is that a non-locking carabiner on there??? Yikes! May I suggest you only use a non-locking carabiner on thinks you don't mind having fall onto your head from 300 feet. Which for most people will be not much.

Tom

Just to be clear, these are not my vids and I am not in them.
I don't know it your question / comment was directed specifically at me or not, but it is definitely a good reminder.

[ratagonia]

Fantastic beta guys! Really, all of you, thanks! I've emailed Navajo Parks & Recreation about the permits. Haven't heard back...ugh. Were hoping for end of March on this guy.


So just to be crystal clear....300 foot rope at "Edge of the World" anchors....good?

Ropes shrink. It takes a real 300 feet of rope to do that rappel, so make sure your rope is still 300 feet.

Tom

[mzamp]

I know a group that went through a few weeks ago. Whether or not they did it with permits or not I am not sure. So I will not name names. :whistling:

[trackrunner]

I know a group that went through a few weeks ago. Whether or not they did it with permits or not I am not sure. So I will not name names. :whistling:

:nono: Just respect the process and get the permit! There are amazing canyons & hikes on the Navajo Reservation that have been closed to public access because people failed to get a permit. Let's not loose anymore. It would be great if we could get access back to these places if we show we are responsible. There are still plenty of places that don't require permits. I have seen people get ticked here before.

:soapbox:

[Erik B]

Ropes shrink. It takes a real 300 feet of rope to do that rappel, so make sure your rope is still 300 feet.

Tom
^^^^^^^^
Good advice!

Well...guess what? My 300' rope is 290'. ugh... I've had it less than a year and used it only once (each) in Englestead and Heaps. That seems a bit ridiculous that it is already 10' shy of 300.

So...Waterholes. There is NO WAY i'm messing with that middle wall anchor and I'd sure love NOT to spend hundreds on another 300'er.

I figure with around 2% rope stretch (Sterling C-IV) I'm going to be around 5 feet short at the bottom which should be quite overcome-able.

Hypothetically, If I was indeed more like 10ft short after rope stretch what options would I have and still have a retrievable rope? Would the following be feasible?

71981

To my knowledge it isnt possible to pass a knot and still have the rope be retrievable, so that's out. It WOULD be possible to pass a stone knot rigged with a fiddlestick and still get the rope back. I'm not entirely sure how comfortable I feel about the whole situation if it was 50ft off the ground instead of 10ft....

[ratagonia]

Here's some possibilities for you Erik:

1. swing by my place and borrow a 300'+ rope.

2. You could extend the anchor from the bolts with 10' of webbing. Do a 'Heaps Lower' to get an extra 10 feet for everyone but the last person, using a normal-length rigging on the anchor. Last person can lower the anchor ring until the bottom of the rope touches the ground; then rappel from the normal anchor to the new anchor ring and transfer to the long rappel rope.

Tom

[ratagonia]

And yes, adding 10' at the bottom using a Fiddlestick could also work. You would rig it kinda reverse FiddleStick so there is no knot in the end of the long rope.

Tom

[mzamp]

Do you have exeact dates yet? I would be interested in going and could bring my 360ft rope.

[Scott P]

I'd be interested as well. And I have two 360' ropes.:wink:

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I've wanted to do Waterholes for a long time, but every time I was in the area it was closed.

[2065toyota]

how is the river going up to the exit point. I'm sure I could get somebody to bring a boat up and get us. That is if this turns into an invite yourself type of trip :haha:

[Erik B]

I'd be interested as well. And I have two 360' ropes.:wink:

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I've wanted to do Waterholes for a long time, but every time I was in the area it was closed.


how is the river going up to the exit point. I'm sure I could get somebody to bring a boat up and get us. That is if this turns into an invite yourself type of trip :haha:


Do you have exeact dates yet? I would be interested in going and could bring my 360ft rope.

Well boys...So far I've been unable to contact the Navajo folks to see what is open and what isn't. I'll PM you all when I get a little more info.

As for the boat idea, I've seen trip reports of people being picked up. Looks cushy. My plan was this:

72043

Unless, of course everyone prefers floating to victory in this ( VVVVV ) hot rod instead. :cool2:

72044

[2065toyota]

Do you leave us any choice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mzamp]

What if I throw in a nights stay at Amangiri resort? :party:

[Mojave Silence]

Back in 2012 I seem to recall that you could pendulum to rappelers right (canyon left) on the big rap and gain maybe 6-8' in elevation, so if you were only a little short that may be an option perhaps. Or re-belay off the ledge anchors, which look like this:

72047

[ratagonia]

72047

Niiiiice, as in, classic F'd UP anchor rigging!

:moses:

[Bootboy]

See also: Junk show

[oldno7]

You guys do understand that any shuttle will me a monumental effort...

[ratagonia]

You guys do understand that any shuttle will me a monumental effort...


At least the 89T landslide bypass road is paved now...

http://www.azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2013/10/15/newly-completed-us-89-bypass-fully-open-with-no-restrictions

So perhaps only an hour and a half drive-around, Lee's Ferry to top of the canyon.

Tom

[oldno7]

At least the 89T landslide bypass road is paved now...

http://www.azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2013/10/15/newly-completed-us-89-bypass-fully-open-with-no-restrictions

So perhaps only an hour and a half drive-around, Lee's Ferry to top of the canyon.

Tom

Yea--maybe monumental was to much.....

But still significant

[Dick Dangle]

I'd be interested as well. And I have two 360' ropes.:wink:

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I've wanted to do Waterholes for a long time, but every time I was in the area it was closed.

Who are you asking? I've obtained permits for WH on several occasions over the previous years and never had an issue. I usually just stop in the Cameron Visitor Center along the 89.

[Scott P]

Who are you asking? I've obtained permits for WH on several occasions over the previous years and never had an issue.

Usually the website itself keeps up with current closures:

http://navajonationparks.org/permits.htm#7

Recently, the Kaibeto Chapter community has prohibited hiking and camping in the entire area of Upper Kaibeto, Navajo Canyon, Choal Canyon, (Kaibeto Creek), Peach Wash, and Butterfly Canyon. Also, the area around the Inscription House community and Tsegi Canyon, (Dowozhiebeto and Long Canyons) are closed. These Closures are due to trespassing across residential areas, NO PERMITS, DISTRUBING LIVESTOCK, LITTERING, AND THE POSSIBLE DISTURBANCE OF FRAGILE ARCHAEOLOGICAL RUINS

Right now Lower Waterholes Canyon is not closed, but it has been in the past. Lower Waterholes Canyon has opened in recent years, while Navajo Mountain has closed.

[townsend]

Even if one acquired a permit to hike Water Holes Canyon, how does one get to it?

According to ADOT website (http://www.azdot.gov/projects/north-central/us-89-landslide), US 89 is closed for 23-miles--from milepost 523-46

Water Holes Canyon crosses under US 89 at milepost 542. (I am assuming it is strictly verboten not to drive on the closed highway.) Would one have to park at milepost 546 and hike four miles to where the canyon crosses under the highway?

[oldno7]

Even if one acquired a permit to hike Water Holes Canyon, how does one get to it?

According to ADOT website (http://www.azdot.gov/projects/north-central/us-89-landslide), US 89 is closed for 23-miles--from milepost 523-46

Water Holes Canyon crosses under US 89 at milepost 542. (I am assuming it is strictly verboten not to drive on the closed highway.) Would one have to park at milepost 546 and hike four miles to where the canyon crosses under the highway?

I don't believe the road is closed there.

There is a detour sign just South of Page but there is way to many Navajo homes that are accessed from 89 to be closed.

The slide was approximately 18 miles South of Page. Were as Waterholes is around 4 miles South.

[Dick Dangle]

Even if one acquired a permit to hike Water Holes Canyon, how does one get to it?

According to ADOT website (http://www.azdot.gov/projects/north-central/us-89-landslide), US 89 is closed for 23-miles--from milepost 523-46

Water Holes Canyon crosses under US 89 at milepost 542. (I am assuming it is strictly verboten not to drive on the closed highway.) Would one have to park at milepost 546 and hike four miles to where the canyon crosses under the highway?

It's open and you can park at the usual spot. Getting there and shuttling just takes a little more time due to the closure. Still well worth it!

[townsend]

Thanks both of you for the information. I've hiked the non-technical eastern portion twice before. I have explored the canyon west of US 89 as far as the first rappel, wanted to do the first four rappels (maybe more now?) and then exit down canyon right, but didn't have a partner at the time. I really like Water Holes Canyon . . .

[mzamp]

Fantastic beta guys! Really, all of you, thanks! I've emailed Navajo Parks & Recreation about the permits. Haven't heard back...ugh. Were hoping for end of March on this guy.


Did you ever go through in March??

[Erik B]

Did you ever go through in March??

We havent yet. I DID however talk to some guys that had just come out as we were finishing a trip through Paria. They told me pretty much this: http://candition.com/canyons/lower-water-holes-canyon

I was extremely envious. My crew isnt available again until September, at which point we will be ABSOLUTELY doing it, unless someone wants to cruise through there with me somewhere between May 8-11th. Anybody game?