Snakebite Kit

[Sun Dance]

Does anyone carry these? I've definitely seen rattlesnakes throughout the Wasatch. If so, what kind? Do they work? Is it worth the extra weight?

[bigred72]

I bought one only to then read numerous articles that they are a sham.

[jman]

When I use to firefight for the BLM in St. George we would always carry one.

Now...we didn't use it once, but it's basically a tool the uses a suction to pull the venom away out of the wound and that's it. Very, very basic. I'm sure there are more advance kits out there that have some meds in it of some sort, but every one I've seen contains just the suction tool.

And It may not get it all, but it's better to get 90% venom out initially while advanced care is delivered later on.

The kit that we carried was about the size of a hand bar of soap.

I wonder if spinesnaper has heard anything about their efficacy?

[phatch]

I've got one and it's in my kit. My paramedic hiking buddy carries one routinely as well.

[Bluff-Canyoneer]

but it's better to get 90% venom out initially while advanced care is delivered later on.

In the only scientific test I was able to locate, the device "removed virtually no mock venom, which suggests that suction is unlikely to be an effective treatment for reducing the total body venom burden after a venomous snakebite."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14747805

Save your money.

[jman]

In the only scientific test I was able to locate, the device "removed virtually no mock venom, which suggests that suction is unlikely to be an effective treatment for reducing the total body venom burden after a venomous snakebite."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14747805

Save your money.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing the reference.

[phatch]

Yes, thanks for the reference.

[Sun Dance]

That's the general consensus I've gotten through other internet avenues as well.

[spinesnaper]

When I use to firefight for the BLM in St. George we would always carry one.

Now...we didn't use it once, but it's basically a tool the uses a suction to pull the venom away out of the wound and that's it. Very, very basic. I'm sure there are more advance kits out there that have some meds in it of some sort, but every one I've seen contains just the suction tool.

And It may not get it all, but it's better to get 90% venom out initially while advanced care is delivered later on.

The kit that we carried was about the size of a hand bar of soap.

I wonder if @spinesnaper (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=18488) has heard anything about their efficacy?

If it removed 90% of the venom, the kits would probably be worth carrying. There are two studies cited regarding the effectiveness of snake bite kits:

Alberts MB, Shalit M, LoBalbo F. Suction for venomous snakebite: a study of " mock venom" extraction in a human model. Ann Emerg Med. 2004;43:181-6

They used radioactive technetium tracer injected into volunteer's legs with a 16 gauge needle. The Sawyer Extractor pump was only able to remove 0.04% of the envenomation load.

Bush SP. Snakebite suction devices don't remove venom: they just suck. Ann Emerg Med. 2004: 43(2):187-8.

This was the accompanying editorial and the title says it all. This also means ixnay on cutting crisscross X's into the skin and muscle at the site of the bite.

What is recommended?

Early use of anti venom and rapid transport for definitive medical care is essential. Envenomation victims rapidly develop shock. Make notes on the appearance of the snake or take a photograph if possible. This will aid in its identification later.

So what do you do if you are bitten by a Western Rattle snake just before dropping into Chop Rock?
Even if you don't believe in a higher being, this is probably a good time to prey (can't hurt). Remember that in California there are about 800 rattlesnake bites a year but only one to two deaths.

Out in the field keep things simple: put the victim to rest, elevate the limb but keep below heart level in an effort to reduce swelling and activate your Personal Locator Beacon. Remove rings and watches, shoes, etc. on the affected limb.

If you are really concerned about rattlesnake bites, carry a PLB and a satellite cell phone.

There are other more complex recommendations such as holding firm pressure over the bite area to a pressure of 50-70 mmHg once a neuotoxic elapid is excluded. The use of tight tourniquets however are considered harmful.

So snakebite kit no, PLB yes. Don't let your paramedic buddy come at you with the snakebite kit.

Ken

[reverse_dyno]

My NOLS Wilderness First Responder instructor told us that they are a sham and that it is pointless to carry a snake bite kit. I used to carry one until I heard that. Since you should never cut the skin around the bite wound, just imagine trying to suck venom out of two little holes in the skin.

[DesertDuke]

Some of the wildlife biologists doing the horny toad counts on the Barry Goldwater bombing range carried something called the extractor which is a syringe looking suction device. They had anecdotal evidence that it had helped them with scropion, wasp, and tarantula hawk stings. On their testimonial I got one thinking "probably wouldn't hurt". They swore by it. They never used it for snake bites that I know of and I have never used mine in the 15 yrs or so that I have carried it around. Hmmmmmm......probably doesn't really work but it gave me false hope which helped me to sleep better on those nights I spent in the Sonoran. That way I only had to burn 1/2 of an ambien.

[Scott P]

I never carry one anymore. Most experts agree that they do more harm than good, so I stopped carrying one years ago.

PS, attempting to suck out poison does more damage than good and increases the chance of infection.

On a different note, just for the heck of it, I checked the reviews for snakebite kits on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Coghlans-Snake-Bite-Kit/product-reviews/B001U9RFLW/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1

The only people who gave them high reviews were those either using it for a sex toy or one person who was using it to draw out the nipples in order to breast feed. I guess they may have a useful purpose (breastfeeding); just don't carry one for snakebites.

[DesertDuke]

This was in one of the amazon reviews and is quite apropos:

Below is from the Wall Street Journal Medical Department May 13, 2009:

"The suction devices are still under debate. One of the most popular devices, the Sawyer Extractor, sold by Sawyer Products Inc. of Safety Harbor, Fla., consists of a syringe-shaped chamber with a plunger that creates a vacuum. The company suggests leaving it on 10 to 15 minutes to extract the venom.

However, a study in pigs and one using radioactively labeled simulated venom injected into the thighs of eight human volunteers found the Sawyer Extractor ineffective. "It removes just a minute quantity of venom," says pig-study author Sean P. Bush, a professor of emergency medicine at California's Loma Linda University School of Medicine. Some doctors fear the deep suction could even worsen outcomes by killing skin at the wound site. The human study, published in 2004 by researchers at the University of California in Fresno, found that the device removed no more than 1% to 2% of mock venom from the leg.

Sawyer Products owner Kurt Avery says he believes the studies show only that the product doesn't work well in large muscle areas, such as thighs and calves. Based on the results, the company changed its label about two years ago to warn that the pump is "not as effective" at removing venom from large muscle areas. Mr. Avery maintains the product is effective when the bite is under the skin in hands, feet and other nonmuscled areas.

That argument doesn't sound plausible to Stanford University's Paul S. Auerbach. Dr. Auerbach, who had advocated use of the Sawyer pump in his 2003 book "Medicine for the Outdoors" and is listed on Sawyer's Web site as supporting the product, says the new edition of his book, expected out next month from Elsevier Inc., will recommend against its use based on newer research."

[spinesnaper]

I never carry one anymore. Most experts agree that they do more harm than good, so I stopped carrying one years ago.

PS, attempting to suck out poison does more damage than good and increases the chance of infection.

On a different note, just for the heck of it, I checked the reviews for snakebite kits on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Coghlans-Snake-Bite-Kit/product-reviews/B001U9RFLW/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1

The only people who gave them high reviews were those either using it for a sex toy or one person who was using it to draw out the nipples in order to breast feed. I guess they may have a useful purpose (breastfeeding); just don't carry one for snakebites.

There you have it. The snake bite kit is better at extracting nipples than snake venom. Bite me.

Ken

[Mever]

No snakebite kit in my pack. Cutting the " X" and the phony suction cup increases infection risk. Ice, raising wound, calm evac better. Have to be a big old rattler to be serious on a healthy adult- more risk on kids or pets.
Retired EMT.

[ststephen]

There you have it. The snake bite kit is better at extracting nipples than snake venom. Bite me.

Ken

And of course the best of both:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2_eBuhHF5s

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2_eBuhHF5s)

[Brian in SLC]

"Doc says you're gonna die."