Do you support higher wages for Walmart employees?

[Sombeech]

http://youtu.be/LLr5oWfoWRY

Noted investor Peter Schiff staged a fake protest recently to show what would happen if Walmart agreed to pay its employees as much as $15 an hour, with hilarious results.


This Is What Happens When People Are Asked to Donate 15 Percent to Walmart Employees
Investor Peter Schiff staged a fake protest to measure actual customer support for a $15 an hour wage for Walmart workers.


Walmart has in recent months become the topic of a heated debate regarding low-wage, entry-level jobs, with organized labor and liberal pundits leading the charge against the non-union mega-retailer.


Some have even managed to convince a large number of people that Walmart should offer as much as $15 per hour to its thousands of employees.


But here

[Scott P]

For several years growing up, Walmart was our only source of income. When Walmart moved to Utah my mom worked graveyards there for $5.50 an hour. I don't remember the exact year, but whenever Walmart came to Utah. My father was unemployed for several years, so it was our sole source of income.

We didn't starve to death and had a family of 7. My mom still works there.

All of my siblings have worked at Walmart, but I never did. My brother still works there. He has a learning disability and no one else will hire him because he can't read or write. He has worked there for years now.

One thing good about Walmart is that it does give jobs to people that no one else will hire.

If you don't like working there, then no one is forcing you to.

[cchoc]

Kind of a specious argument since the producers of the goods sold in Wal Mart are in China. The difference in worker productivity between Wal Mart and Costco are startling, and they sell basically the same goods but Costco pays their employees a decent wage.

[DOSS]

its simple math.. Walmart is not going to cut into their profit margins... if they pay their employees $15 an hour all of their products will just increase in price...

[cchoc]

Not simple math at all. Higher wages attract better employees which should mean more productivity so wages costs need not be directly translated into higher prices. If you are a small low volume retailer maybe, but wage costs vs revenue decreases as volume goes up.


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[2065toyota]

Not simple math at all. Higher wages attract better employees which should mean more productivity so wages costs need not be directly translated into higher prices. If you are a small low volume retailer maybe, but wage costs vs revenue decreases as volume goes up.


In some environments, but as a generally rule that is garbage and you must be living in La La Land. Go start a business and try to prove your point

[cchoc]

If you have a business the size of Wal Mart prove yours. ;) Show me the ratio between your payroll cost and revenue and compare it to Wal Mart or McDonalds.


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[DOSS]

That may be accurate 5 years down the line once they have fired all of the crappy employees they currently have but to immediately give their people this kind of raise means they still have unproductive employees and will just add this cost to joe consumer... $$$ doesn't always mean good employees I have managed large numbers of employees and there is a lot more than just $$$ to attract good hard working people ( like going out of the us where people don't have an entitlement issue )


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[Byron]

If you have a business the size of Wal Mart prove yours. ;) Show me the ratio between your payroll cost and revenue and compare it to Wal Mart or McDonalds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDWell, that's what it boils down to right there, isn't it? I would ask you how much of a companies profit SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED to invest as they see fit versus how much YOU would insist they pay back to employees.

Obviously, YOU can't do anything about that, but you can certainly vote for politicians that "promise" to write the legislation that confiscates and redistributes profit as they (and you) see fit... and you can scream from rooftops. I don't think the screaming is working to well for you folks...perhaps you should form a PAC?

Could you tell me who the philosopher kings are that would be writing and enforcing these rules?. So you'd have government accountants pouring over the books of a company like Walmart...what about the paint store down the street? The owner pays himself 10 times the salary of his two employees...that can't make ya happy, so whatcha gonna do about that?

What about Kmart? Target? Starbucks? Brakes Plus? Autozone?...get my drift?

Let's imagine that you will never get what you want...Walmart will continue to pay its employees what they wish and ignore folks like you, and none of your politicians come through. I would bet in that event you would actually like to see them go out of business...wouldn't that be wonderful, eh?

Well consider this...most of the people that shop at Walmart are there to take advantage of the lower prices. They NEED a store like that. Hell, I discovered the same furnace filters I'd been buying at Home Depot were half the price at Walmart...I'll take it!!! I'd be especially happy about that if I were only making $9 an hour.

Here's another way to look at it...since I tend to think that people like you have a narrow vision. What would you do if your son, who you'd been paying an allowance of $20 a week, demanded $50...because he knows damn well you can afford it. How about your wife threatens to divorce you if you don't fork over the cash.

Anyway...good luck with your crusade.

[cchoc]

That may be accurate 5 years down the line once they have fired all of the crappy employees they currently have but to immediately give their people this kind of raise means they still have unproductive employees and will just add this cost to joe consumer... $$$ doesn't always mean good employees I have managed large numbers of employees and there is a lot more than just $$$ to attract good hard working people ( like going out of the us where people don't have an entitlement issue )


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So move all the Wal Mart's and McDonald's overseas if that's your management strategy.

I've managed large numbers of people too, albeit technical not service, and if you don't offer a decent wage you won't get decent applicants. If you raise your wages you raise your expectations get rid of employees that don't up their game.If you don't pay a decent wage don't expect to be able to hire good replacements for folks you let go. Sure there is more than money to job satisfaction, but you have to be able to attract good workers to begin with.

A good part of the 'entitlement' problem you complain about is that in the US people tell their kids they can be anything they want when they grow up even when they know it's bullshit; most kids won't get the opportunity or have the brains and talent to take advantage of it if they do get it.

[cchoc]

Well, that's what it boils down to right there, isn't it? I would ask you how much of a companies profit SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED to invest as they see fit versus how much YOU would insist they pay back to employees.

Obviously, YOU can't do anything about that, but you can certainly vote for politicians that "promise" to write the legislation that confiscates and redistributes profit as they (and you) see fit... and you can scream from rooftops. I don't think the screaming is working to well for you folks...perhaps you should form a PAC?

Could you tell me who the philosopher kings are that would be writing and enforcing these rules?. So you'd have government accountants pouring over the books of a company like Walmart...what about the paint store down the street? The owner pays himself 10 times the salary of his two employees...that can't make ya happy, so whatcha gonna do about that?

What about Kmart? Target? Starbucks? Brakes Plus? Autozone?...get my drift?

Let's imagine that you will never get what you want...Walmart will continue to pay its employees what they wish and ignore folks like you, and none of your politicians come through. I would bet in that event you would actually like to see them go out of business...wouldn't that be wonderful, eh?

Well consider this...most of the people that shop at Walmart are there to take advantage of the lower prices. They NEED a store like that. Hell, I discovered the same furnace filters I'd been buying at Home Depot were half the price at Walmart...I'll take it!!! I'd be especially happy about that if I were only making $9 an hour.

Here's another way to look at it...since I tend to think that people like you have a narrow vision. What would you do if your son, who you'd been paying an allowance of $20 a week, demanded $50...because he knows damn well you can afford it. How about your wife threatens to divorce you if you don't fork over the cash.

Anyway...good luck with your crusade.

Hilarious, but I guess I'm happy to be one of your 'your folks' rather than one of your 'folks'. :lol8: Thanks for the good wishes, though.

[DOSS]

So move all the Wal Mart's and McDonald's overseas if that's your management strategy.

I've managed large numbers of people too, albeit technical not service, and if you don't offer a decent wage you won't get decent applicants. If you raise your wages you raise your expectations get rid of employees that don't up their game.If you don't pay a decent wage don't expect to be able to hire good replacements for folks you let go. Sure there is more than money to job satisfaction, but you have to be able to attract good workers to begin with.

A good part of the 'entitlement' problem you complain about is that in the US people tell their kids they can be anything they want when they grow up even when they know it's bullshit; most kids won't get the opportunity or have the brains and talent to take advantage of it if they do get it.

yeah, you really need to do some erlang C calculations in the service industry and you will find that you need a large number of employees to take care of the customers. Even if you paid them more and they are more productive you still end up at a loss due to the need for more people to deal with the people that are not on the other end of a phone line but actually in front of them. The maths just do not add up...

I disagree that parents telling children they can be anything they want when they grow up creates entitlement... Failure to tell them they will need to work their butts off for it does but not just telling them they can have dreams and aspirations.

[cchoc]

yeah, you really need to do some erlang C calculations in the service industry and you will find that you need a large number of employees to take care of the customers. Even if you paid them more and they are more productive you still end up at a loss due to the need for more people to deal with the people that are not on the other end of a phone line but actually in front of them. The maths just do not add up...

I disagree that parents telling children they can be anything they want when they grow up creates entitlement... Failure to tell them they will need to work their butts off for it does but not just telling them they can have dreams and aspirations.

I worked in the call center industry, so I am familiar with how things are there. Call centers do many things to incentivize their operators to handle calls more effectively, upsell, etc. The good companies realize that their call centers are much more than just a cost center, but the actual face of their company. Queuing calls and queuing in checkout lines have similarities and differences, but in both cases the better the operator the more likely a better customer experience. It's more than simple math, i've seen customer satisfaction tank for customers whose call centers were managed just on cost (salary and equipment) and short hold times.

Telling your child they can be anything they want if they work hard enough is true only if what they want to be is within their capabilities.

[DOSS]

I worked in the call center industry, so I am familiar with how things are there. Call centers do many things to incentivize their operators to handle calls more effectively, upsell, etc. The good companies realize that their call centers are much more than just a cost center, but the actual face of their company. Queuing calls and queuing in checkout lines have similarities and differences, but in both cases the better the operator the more likely a better customer experience. It's more than simple math, i've seen customer satisfaction tank for customers whose call centers were managed just on cost (salary and equipment) and short hold times.

Telling your child they can be anything they want if they work hard enough is true only if what they want to be is within their capabilities.

I agree (I have worked in call centers and in the service industry).. it does take more than just math.. but the Math also has to back up your actions. just giving a bunch of already crappy employees more money doesn't make them better employees and that is what all of these crappy employees wanting is just more money right now...

Also these people agreed to take the position at the rate they are paid, there was no surprise wage reduction its all right out in the open that walmart pays like shite and yet they still applied and took the job there as it is better than nothing. if they want to make more money they need to become the higher quality of employee that deserves a higher rate of pay and go somewhere else and get it.

[cchoc]

OK, I surrender. I believe that if you pay a crappy wage you will have crappy employees whether or not they were crappy to begin with. If you pay a decent wage you can get rid of crappy employees and replace them with better ones.

But then, as the Dude says:

71243

[DOSS]

OK, I surrender. I believe that if you pay a crappy wage you will have crappy employees whether or not they were crappy to begin with. If you pay a decent wage you can get rid of crappy employees and replace them with better ones.

But then, as the Dude says:

71243

So you are arguing that by just paying the crappy employees you have now more money they will instantly become better employees... or just that paying crappy employees more money and wasting the extra $$ on them is worth it because you "Might" be able to replace them in the future.... ? I think that you are missing the point that Walmart has found over a long period of time that paying a LOT of employees at a very low wage makes them the highest return on investment and ROI is what a company really cares about.. its all about the bottom line as if they were not making money they would just be a charity... (oh wait charitys actually make a lot of $$ but that can be another argument)

If walmart actually wanted better employees they could just start hiring new employees with higher expectations at a higher rate of pay while keeping the old low pay employees where they are until they leave due to failure to make as much but offering them the opportunity to apply for these "new" higher pay higher expectations posisions instead of just wasting their money paying already crappy people more money.

[cchoc]

I'm just saying that if you pay a crappy wage you will have crappy employees, period. Should an American company feel responsible to pay its employees a living wage? Not the way our economy works, no; companies are responsible only to their profits and, if public, their shareholders. It's the American way these days, and it makes me money on my investments, but I can't help being a bit conflicted when full time employees at a lot of places need food stamps. If it wasn't for the minimum wage Wal Mart and McDonalds, etc. employees wouldn't make as much as they do now.

[DOSS]

It's the American way these days,

hahaha and to think we used to use slaves and pay them only a pittance in food and beatings... These days are better than they were and we continue to have a better quality of life. if minimum wage goes up just as it has in the past the cost of living goes up and those same people who complained that they didn't make enough before are once again not making the same as those educated people who actually put forth effort.
You are aware that military families are most often on food stamps...

[cchoc]

My first job was at minimum wage, $1.25/hr, at a meat packing plant. If you were a good worker you didn't stay at minimum wage very long, though. Experienced workers there made good money and with 5 years seniority they got 50% of their kids' college tuition covered at any school. Not a lot of those jobs around any more. If you are suggesting minimum wage people are better off than slaves you're probably right, and they are certainly better off than some. One of the ministries at our church gives out candles to the homeless so they can light them at night for a little warmth and to keep the rats away. If you choose to believe that folks are poor because they are lazy, fine. Maybe that's true where you live.

[double moo]

If we are successful in raising the wage and expectations, and in turn attract and maintain a more productive workforce... what happens to all the crappy employees we displace? The have to end up womewhere making minimum wage and doing a crappy job there too. And what about all the learning disabled, and other special circumstance employees - can't cut it with the new expecations? now what? When I do run into Walmart to pick up things I accept the level of service and appreciate that they are providing an opportunity to folks that might otherwise be unemployed.

[cchoc]

If we are successful in raising the wage and expectations, and in turn attract and maintain a more productive workforce... what happens to all the crappy employees we displace? The have to end up womewhere making minimum wage and doing a crappy job there too. And what about all the learning disabled, and other special circumstance employees - can't cut it with the new expecations? now what? When I do run into Walmart to pick up things I accept the level of service and appreciate that they are providing an opportunity to folks that might otherwise be unemployed.

I'm not talking about special needs programs. As I have stated before, crappy wages = crappy employees. Higher wages can motivate some to become better employees. Look at Costco vs WalMart. Both sell similar products to a similar audience; Costco employees are higher paid yet their labor costs are lower that WalMart because their employees are more productive. Lower wages do not necessarily translate to lower payroll cost since you end up needing more people to do the same amount of work.

I respect your right to an opinion but I don't need to agree with it.

[Scott P]

Higher wages attract better employees

This can be true (along the same lines double moo), but as pointed out, places like Walmart provide jobs to people who might not otherwise be able to get one somewhere else. I used the example of my brother who is unable to read or write, which prevents him from higher end jobs. Also, what about teenagers with no experience? Where are they supposed to work if all the places only want better employees.

If Walmart and McDonalds raise the standards of who can work there and also raise the wages significantly in order to replace all these people for better workers, what about the ones displaces?

I do agree however that employers should try to pay their employees fairly. Many companies don't do this.


If you choose to believe that folks are poor because they are lazy, fine.

Some are, but there is no shame in working for a low wage as long as you do your best at it. How many of us here started out at or near minimum wage? I know I did and I would bet many of us (perhaps even most of us) also have as well.

If I was in charge of hiring all the high end employees at a company, personally I'd be more impressed with an applicant who started out and the bottom and worked his or her way up than I would with a fresh graduate who's well off parent's put him or her through school.

No one should really expect to start out at the top. Even at Walmart or McDonalds you can still work your way up and if not at hopefully least gain enough work experience to eventually go somewhere else, at least for many of us. For people like my brother, who can't read or write, he'll probably be stuck at Walmart for the rest of his life. At least he's working though. As far as I know he tries at his job. He's been there for several years and makes quite a bit more than minimum wage now. A lot of people who have more means and can read or write still don't have jobs or feel that working at a place like Walmart is somehow beneath them.

[cchoc]

A lot of people who have more means and can read or write still don't have jobs or feel that working at a place like Walmart is somehow beneath them.

And that is sad, and I think partly because most people aren't aware or won't accept their limitations in capability and experience. A little humility goes a long way towards coping with ones' lot in life. Way more than 50% of the people think they are above average.

As long as the minimum wage isn't a livable wage people with those jobs will need public assistance to get by. Companies like Wal Mart know that and are using our tax dollars to subsidize their profits.

[Byron]

As long as the minimum wage isn't a livable wage people with those jobs will need public assistance to get by. Companies like Wal Mart know that and are using our tax dollars to subsidize their profits.True and not true...minimum wage is above the poverty line. In order to secure a welfare check, one working the job must also have children...and be virtually the sole source of income. Which begs to question...a single mom working at min. wage with one child has it raised to $15 so it's "livable", right?

What about the single mom with 3 kids, Is $15 enough, or should it be bumped up by...say $5 per child? Would that make people "like you" happy? What do ya suggest?

[cchoc]

Many low income workers get food stamps. Single mothers with children can get government aid. Companies use low wages to boost profits knowing tax dollars subsidize their employees. I guess it's just a matter of social conscience, some folks have one, some folks don't.

[Byron]

So you're insinuating that those who support the min. wage as it is don't have social conscience? C'mon man...can't ya do better than that? Tell you what...show me pictures of people starving to death in this country, then perhaps I'll acknowledge that there's a problem.

[cchoc]

So you're insinuating that those who support the min. wage as it is don't have social conscience? C'mon man...can't ya do better than that? Tell you what...show me pictures of people starving to death in this country, then perhaps I'll acknowledge that there's a problem.

Seriously? You need someone to starve before you get concerned? And I was actually talking about a company's management's social conscience, I thought that was pretty obvious.

But then I'm sure you know there are people going to bed hungry every night in this country who have full time jobs, it just doesn't concern you and I'm not asking you to care. This thread topic is whether or not people support a higher minimum wage; I do you don't - I think that has been established. :roll:

[Byron]

OK sport...I'll give it to ya. I won't be satisfied until I see their bloated corpses rotting in the gutter. F**k 'em and feed 'em rice. We should cut the min. wage so that'll help cull the weak and uneducated leaches from society...so it seems we have irreconcilable differences in this regard, eh? Perhaps you should travel to Congress and talk some sense into those people...while you're at it, cruise over to New York and pay Paul Krugman a visit...maybe convince him to fly over to Greece to put all his genius to work.

[cchoc]

Drop the minimum wage, get rid of child labor laws, lose OSHA and the EPA and the rest of the pesky regulations that hurt our industries, then we can get those jobs back from overseas and make this country great again. I think my congressman already wants to do those things anyway, although I will be in DC next month so I can double check.

[Scott P]

Drop the minimum wage, get rid of child labor laws, lose OSHA and the EPA and the rest of the pesky regulations that hurt our industries, then we can get those jobs back from overseas and make this country great again.

Really? Have you ever been to a country that doesn't have (or has little of) safety regulations, environmental regulations, or child labor laws? I have. Trust me, it's not pleasant.

Just living and breathing one day in Mumbia India, for example is equivalent to smoking more than 100 cigarettes.

In some places in Africa, I've seen nine year old kids working for industries injured on a trail carrying loads heavier than they are up steep paths.

The safety record in coal mines in places like China is deplorable with thousands killed a year due to unsafe practices.

As much as people hate government regulations in the workforce, trust me, many of them are needed. If you disagree, I'd invite you to visit much of the rest of the world or even look at our own history and what would happen in the workforce in this country 100 years ago.

PS, this country is still great. It has its problems, but trust me, compared to much of the world we have it really good.

[cchoc]

I've been to many places like that around the world; I was just reciting the tea party mantra with tongue firmly in cheek and figured the smiley was implied, sorry.

The reason US companies moved their jobs to those countries is because they don't have all the 'pesky' regulations we do. Now we just have illegal sweatshops here, the legal ones have all shut down and the jobs moved to legal sweatshops in other countries. Many people here in the US would like to roll back the clock to the 'good old days', me not so much. :wink:

And there is not enough 'stuff' in the world for everyone to have it as good as we do. Our lifestyle depends on someone getting exploited downstream.

[2065toyota]

I'm just saying that if you pay a crappy wage you will have crappy employees, period. Should an American company feel responsible to pay its employees a living wage? Not the way our economy works, no; companies are responsible only to their profits and, if public, their shareholders. It's the American way these days, and it makes me money on my investments, but I can't help being a bit conflicted when full time employees at a lot of places need food stamps. If it wasn't for the minimum wage Wal Mart and McDonalds, etc. employees wouldn't make as much as they do now.

Higher pay does not make a better employee. A better employee is a better employee because of who they are as a person and as an employee. That is why better employees will always get paid more money because they are getting paid what they are worth. Higher wages have to be earned and are granted upon performance. The theory or paying more so you can get an employee to accomplish more is part of the screwed Liberal agenda of this nation. If I have to pay you more so that you'll do a better job working for me, then I will just find someone to replace you that will do a better job for less money that is self motivated. Once they actually become a valuable asset to the company, then the wages will increase to compensate them for their value to the company.

[2065toyota]

BTW

My wife, her brother, her sister in law, her brother in law, 3 of my employees parents, all work at Walmart. I don't think any of them make less than $18/hour plus full insurance, dental, 401k, etc

Not sure why the backlash against Walmart when it employees 2.2 million people.

Just raising their overall wage by a measly $1.00 per hour per employee would cost them. 8 hour/day x 21 days/month = 168 hours
168 hours x 2.2 million employees x $1 = $369,900,000 per month

[cchoc]

Higher pay does not make a better employee. A better employee is a better employee because of who they are as a person and as an employee. That is why better employees will always get paid more money because they are getting paid what they are worth. Higher wages have to be earned and are granted upon performance. The theory or paying more so you can get an employee to accomplish more is part of the screwed Liberal agenda of this nation. If I have to pay you more so that you'll do a better job working for me, then I will just find someone to replace you that will do a better job for less money that is self motivated. Once they actually become a valuable asset to the company, then the wages will increase to compensate them for their value to the company.

How many examples do you have of that happening at Wal Mart or Mc D's? Crappy starting salaries with little chance for raises will generate crappy employees. Full time employees at places like that need food stamps to feed their families, which you are paying for. If you are happy subsidizing profits and CEO salaries, good for you. I have no problem with an increase in the minimum wage no matter what you label it.

[2065toyota]

Starting salaries for starting employees. What a novel idea.

Walmart has guaranteed raises if you pass a performance review. Wow, another novel idea.

Plenty of room for advancement Every store and distribution center has tons of managers.

No. I don't think everyone should get a trophy just for participating. Be a better employee and you will be paid better. If the job at walmart or anywhere else doesn't pay enough then get off your butt and find a different one

Oh yeah. We are in a recession and there aren't jobs available. BS. I placed an ad for my last position we hired a few months back. 34 people applied. Only 2 were actually looking for a job, the rest were just fulfilling unemployment requirements. I ended up relocating an individual from Seattle. There are plenty of jobs, not plenty of workers.

The entire system and culture is screwed up. Businesses small and big are made out to be the big bad wolf when in reality they are the only actual revenue source for anything that is sold or produced.

You should start your own walmart and pay higher wages to all your employees if that is the answer


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[2065toyota]

If minimum wage is raised by a dollar, then business has to raise the price to the consumer to cover the increased costs. How does that really benefit anybody other than those that hold real estate who are at the most to gain by inflation


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[cchoc]

If minimum wage is raised by a dollar, then business has to raise the price to the consumer to cover the increased costs. How does that really benefit anybody other than those that hold real estate who are at the most to gain by inflation


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You have to look at what payroll costs are as a part of the cost of goods sold to see how prices would be affected. Costco pays their employees more than Wal Mart, sells similar goods to a similar audience, yet has lower payroll costs - must seem magical to you. At any rate, your tax money is going towards feeding those low income workers, so you should be proud that the company profits remain high - and I'm glad you are helping prop up my investments. :mrgreen: Win win.