Best of North Wash

[Bootboy]

So, having been all over Utah, and having done many canyons, it's time I get down to the North Wash to see what it's all about. I've got an old climbing buddy coming to town and then he is driving on to New Mexico. He's been stuck back east in school for a couple years and hasn't had a lot of playtime in redrock country recently. The idea being that I'd like to make it worth the while fir a one night, one day trip. I figured for dry canyons, the north wash should give us some pretty good bang-for-our-buck. With easy access, short approaches, and good scenery, it seems to fit the bill. I am worried about crowds though...

In your opinions, what are the best canyons in the NW? I'm toying with the idea of Sandthrax.
Short of that, what are some good technical options for an ambitious group? We will be a group of 4 strong climbers, 2 of us with considerable canyon experience, with sound skills and experience. We are looking to do 2, maybe 3 canyons in one day.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[TommyBoy]

Shenanigans and out one of the leps is a blast, shouldn't take too long with a strong fast group either. Depending on your speed/start time you should be able to add in a third or fourth canyon as well.

[xxnitsuaxx]

+1 on Shenanigans. And Sandthrax is pretty doable for a group like yours. Make sure that's your last canyon though because you'll feel thrashed afterwards.

[Taylor]

Hard day Harvey was a blast for me and the other climber in our group. The other four (experienced canyoneers) in or group were challenged by it. I highly recommend it.

[hank moon]

Hogs 1-4 or some portion thereof would be good. Never seen another soul in those slots, though they do get done more frequently these days. STill not nearly as pop as the leps, shennany, etc.

[Bootboy]

Ok, so here's what I'm thinking: Shenanigans first, middle or right Lep second (which is better?) and then depending on time and energy level, we'll consider Sandthrax. I know the days are short lately but if we get an early start, is this plan feasible? Btw, I've only got 1 #5 camalot.

[Scott P]

middle or right Lep second (which is better?)

Define "better". Although close together they are very different from each other and which one is better depends on what you are looking for. Middle is tighter and more challenging. It is one of the longest sustained slots around. East is pretty and more laid back. It probably has more water.

Both are worth doing.

[hank moon]

Ok, so here's what I'm thinking: Shenanigans first, middle or right Lep second (which is better?) and then depending on time and energy level, we'll consider Sandthrax. I know the days are short lately but if we get an early start, is this plan feasible? Btw, I've only got 1 #5 camalot.

Middle Lep is the best of the 3 forks...if you're looking for challenge and physicality. Ditto to what Scott said above.

I guess you read the TR/AR that was posted earlier this year (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?68866-Accident-Report-Sandthrax) about the 1-camalot team...?

[hank moon]

+1 on Shenanigans. And Sandthrax is pretty doable for a group like yours. Make sure that's your last canyon though because you'll feel thrashed afterwards.

Sandthrax on the heels of Shananny and Middle Lep? A Herculean itinerary, for sure. Everyone in the party should have excellent judgment and self-awareness -- especially of their remaining mental and physical capacity -- before dropping into Sandthrax. It is considerably more difficult and draining than the other two.

[Slot Machine]

I guess you read the TR/AR that was posted earlier this year (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?68866-Accident-Report-Sandthrax) about the 1-camalot team...?

There are only two reasons NOT to bring ALL of the recommended cams: extreme laziness or extreme poverty.

Tyler (who fell) still has flashbacks of the fall when he closes his eyes. He had nightmares for weeks. He could have died. Bring all of the recommended cams if you go.

The Shenany/Lep combo will be a hearty and rewarding combo platter. It will take you a little extra time, since it is your first time through. It will fill your day. Doing Sandthrax after those two canyons (the same day) is nutty and unrealistic. Being less than 100% mentally or physically in that canyon seems like a death wish.

You only have one day out there? Sandthrax then Middle Lep would be a pretty good combo too...

[SRG]

Ok, so here's what I'm thinking: Shenanigans first, middle or right Lep second (which is better?) and then depending on time and energy level, we'll consider Sandthrax.

Totally man, if there's a full moon you could prollly get in all 4 Hogs after Sandthrax. :haha:

[Absolute Gravity]

Btw, I've only got 1 #5 camalot.


I guess you read the TR/AR that was posted earlier this year (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?68866-Accident-Report-Sandthrax) about the 1-camalot team...?

1 #5 in Sandtrax will be pretty worthless. As you can read above, 1 #6 was not enough if you are going to climb the crux. You're welcome to borrow my #6 if you'd like but you will probably want a big bro too. Stemming over the top is also an option, and probably the one I'd take if I were to do it again. I would not do it following Shenanigans and Middle Lep, especially with the short days.

This video explains the stem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwyworAQk88

[Absolute Gravity]

I would not do it following Shenanigans and Middle Lep, especially with the short days.

This came out wrong. I would not do all three, but would do Sandthrax as the first canyon of the day and then follow it up with Middle Lep.

[Slot Machine]

Stemming over the top is also an option, and probably the one I'd take if I were to do it again.

Disclaimer for those playing along at home:

Absolute Gravity is very talented at stemming, probably top 5% of all canyoneers. 6 feet tall, 6'4" arm span, he makes the very difficult look very easy.

:cool2:

[hank moon]

This came out wrong. I would not do all three, but would do Sandthrax as the first canyon of the day and then follow it up with Middle Lep.

X2 (except I'd have to train for weeks to be able to do both of them in a day - prolly not ever gonna happen).

Saving Sandthrax for last virtually guarantees that you either won't drop in, or won't make it through. Doing it first is a bit dicey if you've never done super-skinny, N. Washy kinda slots. Ok, maybe that's enough pontification for a day.

69987

[Absolute Gravity]

I would recommend taking the climbing gear no matter what. If you like the stem, do it, if you don't then you still have the option to do the climb.

[Bootboy]

Hmm... Not that I'm concerned about our abilities but maybe for my friends sake, we'll 'thrax it another day.

[Bootboy]

I would recommend taking the climbing gear no matter what. If you like the stem, do it, if you don't then you still have the option to do the climb.

I really enjoy hard stemming but I'm only 5'9" and my arm span is certainly no more.

I'm just looking for a full day without regretting biting off more than we can chew.

[Absolute Gravity]

Me, Slot Machine, and MiCamp did Razorback and Middle Lep last Saturday and had an absolute blast. We started ML at 3:30 and made it out by 7:00, just before it got dark but we were moving pretty quick. You will want to start before then. There was also a very very cold swimmer at the very end of it, but it was totally worth it.:nod:

[Bootboy]

Well, I'm back.

Let's just say that Shenanigans in the mud with 2 full swimmers and no wetsuits was more than enough for some in our group...cold. We took the Kelsey exit to near the top of Lep, and some in the group said that they'd rather just walk up to the car at the top of shenanigans than descend leprechaun to our other car. So we bailed. Oh well.

The Sandthrax camp was nice enough, albeit FULL of noisy, inconsiderate people (and their dogs) who like to hear themselves talk till 1a.m.

One lady, not of our group, showed up late and proceeded to double park us for no apparent reason. Mind you there was no shortage of parking space in the whole area. Why she decided to crowd us in our obscure corner is beyond me. She would end up sleeping between our cars 10' from my friends tent. Weird... Anyway, She then proceeded to walk across the camp to find her group. She shrieked and carried on when she found her group and much loud laughter ensued. I could overhear their "conversation" from 50 yards away in my tent. The group she joined consisted of 3 non talkers and one guy who did more than enough talking for all of them combined and boasted about the " pothole escape clinics" that he teaches. Whatever... They got to talking about flash floods in the area and the lady mentioned that she was among the group that was caught in the mayhem down there a few weeks ago and had posted the video that has received so much scrutiny in another thread on here. :facepalm1: she laughed about it like it was no big deal. Meet-up groups....

I think I'll steer clear of the north wash on October weekends in the future. Not my scene.

[hesse15]

Shenanigans and out one of the leps is a blast, shouldn't take too long with a strong fast group either. Depending on your speed/start time you should be able to add in a third or fourth canyon as well.
Tommy you forgot to mention SIZE!!!!
shananigan is not suitable for beer belly usually!!!!!
lets keep them to the classic of north wash
irish and poisons?

[TommyBoy]

Tommy you forgot to mention SIZE!!!!
shananigan is not suitable for beer belly usually!!!!!
lets keep them to the classic of north wash
irish and poisons?

Sorry I guess I just assumed that they would look at the beta before acting on any suggestions, not very smart on my part.

[hesse15]

Well, I'm back.

Let's just say that Shenanigans in the mud with 2 full swimmers and no wetsuits was more than enough for some in our group...cold. We took the Kelsey exit to near the top of Lep, and some in the group said that they'd rather just walk up to the car at the top of shenanigans than descend leprechaun to our other car. So we bailed. Oh well.

The Sandthrax camp was nice enough, albeit FULL of noisy, inconsiderate people (and their dogs) who like to hear themselves talk till 1a.m.

One lady, not of our group, showed up late and proceeded to double park us for no apparent reason. Mind you there was no shortage of parking space in the whole area. Why she decided to crowd us in our obscure corner is beyond me. She would end up sleeping between our cars 10' from my friends tent. Weird... Anyway, She then proceeded to walk across the camp to find her group. She shrieked and carried on when she found her group and much loud laughter ensued. I could overhear their "conversation" from 50 yards away in my tent. The group she joined consisted of 3 non talkers and one guy who did more than enough talking for all of them combined and boasted about the " pothole escape clinics" that he teaches. Whatever... They got to talking about flash floods in the area and the lady mentioned that she was among the group that was caught in the mayhem down there a few weeks ago and had posted the video that has received so much scrutiny in another thread on here. :facepalm1: she laughed about it like it was no big deal. Meet-up groups....

I think I'll steer clear of the north wash on October weekends in the future. Not my scene.

ahh you are the guy that at 9:30 pm told us to go to bed? Yeah 9:30pm and you did not start your canyon (lep???) until 9am anyway!!!!!
:angryfire:
byt i am european so at sandtrax we leave space for other people to park!!!!!:bootyshake::naughty:
and that was the spot before the sand dune so is the main parking area not that "remote" mostly now after half of the campsite is grooved by the flood!!!

PS: yeah i was drinking beer with the meetup on flash flood day but actually my group was safer doing some 20 feet stem up canyon in Witch cauldron and we bailed before a single drop of rain!!!!
and the laughing was about different situations, I was not laughing when i saw the ladies mangled up beside my warning about their leaders!!!!

ps Bogleyties : who can guess who is the LOUD guy????very easy.......:nod::haha:

for bootboy if you like peace and quiet do not go to sandtrax campsite in full fall canyon season and definitely do not go there on new years that is party town down there!!!!!!:guitar::rockon::drums::roflmao1::beer: :rock::cheers::banana:

[hesse15]

Sorry I guess I just assumed that they would look at the beta before acting on any suggestions, not very smart on my part.
nowday with so many "self appointed" experienced better be cautious suggesting canyons!!!!
apparently they got thei butt beaten in shenanigan, ps they did not know the little tricky dance at the end to avoid the frigid pool??sounds like it
cold in Shenny? working your way trough and the kelsey grunt up will warm you up!!!!

[Absolute Gravity]

The Sandthrax camp was nice enough, albeit FULL of noisy, inconsiderate people (and their dogs) who like to hear themselves talk till 1a.m.

One lady, not of our group, showed up late and proceeded to double park us for no apparent reason. Mind you there was no shortage of parking space in the whole area. Why she decided to crowd us in our obscure corner is beyond me. She would end up sleeping between our cars 10' from my friends tent. Weird... Anyway, She then proceeded to walk across the camp to find her group. She shrieked and carried on when she found her group and much loud laughter ensued. I could overhear their "conversation" from 50 yards away in my tent.


ahh you are the guy that at 9:30 pm told us to go to bed? Yeah 9:30pm and you did not start your canyon (lep???) until 9am anyway!!!!!
:angryfire:


:lol8:LOL! Had a feeling this might have been you Cristina.

You should have talked to her Bootboy. Me and Bob also had our first encounter with Cristina at Sandthrax Campground. Cristina is great company and a fantastic canyoneer. Looking forward to another canyon with her sometime.

If you want quiet in the North Wash don't go to Sandthrax, get a motel room in Hanksville.

[Bootboy]

nowday with so many "self appointed" experienced better be cautious suggesting canyons!!!!
apparently they got thei butt beaten in shenanigan, ps they did not know the little tricky dance at the end to avoid the frigid pool??sounds like it
cold in Shenny? working your way trough and the kelsey grunt up will warm you up!!!!

I was not the one who told you to go to bed, I was certainly thinking it though...

We left camp at 8. Not nine. I still don't get the parking thing. There was plenty of room elsewhere. You can tell me to go somewhere else as an excuse for your behavior, but it was still inconsiderate. It's like you couldn't figure out where to park on your own. "Oh, there's cars over there. Maybe that's where you're supposed to park..."

The full swimmer was much higher in the canyon. Only my buddy who is 6'0" with a +5" ape index could stem - finger tips to toes- over it. The rest of us went swimming. We all made the traverse around the last pool. No problems. 2 in our group were relative newbs and they had had enough by the time we topped out on the exit. I was tired at the end, no doubt due in part to the difficulty added to the experience by the sticky mud all the way through the canyon, but I wouldn't say I had my butt beaten. We still managed the canyon in a little over 6 hours. I was ready for leprechaun, but I was out voted.

[Mountaineer]

The Sandthrax camp was nice enough, albeit FULL of noisy, inconsiderate people (and their dogs) who like to hear themselves talk till 1a.m.


I think I'll steer clear of the north wash on October weekends in the future. Not my scene.



We missed Sandthrax this round. Stayed just above you Friday and Saturday night...

[hesse15]

I was not the one who told you to go to bed, I was certainly thinking it though...

We left camp at 8. Not nine. I still don't get the parking thing. There was plenty of room elsewhere. You can tell me to go somewhere else as an excuse for your behavior, but it was still inconsiderate. It's like you couldn't figure out where to park on your own. "Oh, there's cars over there. Maybe that's where you're supposed to park..."
.

sandtrax get pretty full so you try to park all the car nicely to leave room for others
but probably been your first time there you did not know that and that is a very SOCIAL spot.
certain days are 60 of more cars there. imagine a sort of walmart parking lot


8am was your run for the bathroom not when you left camp for the canyon!!!
and by the way was 9:30 PM and is not nice to say "do not make me to come back!!!!" with a threatening tone.was actually pretty rude!!!
until we saw the green plate we were thinking you "packed" to camp,but greenies usually are not armed!!!

ps: about your time .I used to go with "energizer bunny" so I am not get easy impressed by record time !!!!
too bad the next day you guys missed the full clinic of practicing ascending,escaping rappel ,passing knots with proper or improvised devices using the bolts that late Roger put ,and actually the group with the dog really enjoy watching it and chatting!!!!
kind of afternoon entertaining!!!!


sandtrax is a good place to meet new and old friends.
plan a different spot in future if you want solitude peace and quiet
is like expecting that on the ocean drive on Miami beach in summer!!!!!
and also is next to the highway so not exactly "remote" place!!!!
in bed by 9:30? come on!!!!!!
ask Tom that was up and running a rescue at 11:30pm on thursd in hogwart with the ZAC group, if he was already in bed and not partying/chatting those poor guys will had to spend the night in the canyon!!!!

[hesse15]

We missed Sandthrax this round. Stayed just above you Friday and Saturday night...

were you guys there?
we saw cars a big blue one park just before sandtrax

[hesse15]

:lol8:LOL! Had a feeling this might have been you Cristina.

You should have talked to her Bootboy. Me and Bob also had our first encounter with Cristina at Sandthrax Campground. Cristina is great company and a fantastic canyoneer. Looking forward to another canyon with her sometime.
If you want quiet in the North Wash don't go to Sandthrax, get a motel room in Hanksville.
yeap was me i was thinking my parking was very efficient and those guys neither slept in their cars!!!!
after the flood is still pretty messed up there.
just let me know guys before start to get too "freeze fest" for my Mediterranean blood!!!:cold:

[Mountaineer]

were you guys there?
we saw cars a big blue one park just before sandtrax

Shoot, just missed you Cristina. No, we were on the Cedar Point road. Next time we are around we'll have to pay a visit to Sandthrax just to see who is there.

[flatiron]

:lol8:LOL!
If you want quiet in the North Wash don't go to Sandthrax, get a motel room in Hanksville.

Or as another stated "plan a different spot in future if you want solitude peace and quiet." I really really hope that is not now, or in future, the prevailing attitude taken when camping alongside others, whether at Sandthrax or anywhere - We get to be as noisy as we like as late as we want - and screw you. Move if u don't like it. ??? I have run into that more and more over the years- what's with that? Seems pretty selfish & inconsiderate. Wait, correction - it IS inconsiderate. Very. Maybe 1st rule of camping - don't ruin it for others. :nono: IMHO

[hesse15]

Or as another stated "plan a different spot in future if you want solitude peace and quiet." IMHO
Hi flat did you ever been to sandtrax?
it is really like a walmart parking lot, hundreds people camp there on top of each other!!!!
boaters, atvers, hunters, hikers and canyoneers
it is just a construction pull out 20meters away of the highway!!!
and again probably you missed the 9:30pm going to bed intimidation point!!!!!!

it is like camping in the swell on memorial day weekend next to ATVers city and expecting peace and quiet!!!
there are multiple other spots for camping in north wash that are smaller and more secluded, that is not!
and everybody that got there knows it, apparently they were first timers.......:cool2:
really glad they did not enter sandtrax canyon as their initial plan
before:


In your opinions, what are the best canyons in the NW? I'm toying with the idea of Sandthrax.
Short of that, what are some good technical options for an ambitious group? We will be a group of 4 strong climbers, 2 of us with considerable canyon experience, with sound skills and experience. We are looking to do 2, maybe 3 canyons in one day.
After:


2 in our group were relative newbs and they had had enough by the time we topped out on the
otherwise another weekend spent in rescue people out and I had enough of those lately!!!!!
love the leader misjudgment blaming his members!!!!
ps if you sane you WILL NEVER take your wetsuit in shenanny unless you are a size 0!!!!
that is when bikinis and speedos get handy!!!!! strip-swim-redress!!!! nailed that down pretty good!:2thumbs:

[Byron]

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/loud-mouth-lauren-schwind.jpg.

[Bootboy]

For those of you following along at home, the direction this thread has gone is pretty analogous to our short stay at north wash. It got really loud and annoying as soon as this lady showed up. Tons of semi coherent, nonsensical blathering that makes you want to put a pillow over your face (or someone else's...).

[flatiron]

Hi flat did you ever been to sandtrax?
it is really like a walmart parking lot, hundreds people camp there on top of each other!!!!
boaters, atvers, hunters, hikers and canyoneers
it is just a construction pull out 20meters away of the highway!!!
and again probably you missed the 9:30pm going to bed intimidation point!!!!!!

it is like camping in the swell on memorial day weekend next to ATVers city and expecting peace and quiet!!!
there are multiple other spots for camping in north wash that are smaller and more secluded, that is not!

:2thumbs:

Hey Cristina - actually I have camped there. Last 3-4 yrs I have hit NoWash every spring and fall for a 4-6 days. My fav playground. Always camped at Sandthrax - but am looking for alternatives always. I have seen several small spots that might do. (any secret places u know I can hide form the pack?) Have never seen it as you describe, I believe you. BUT, that doesn't invalidate my point. There are all sorts of places where a LOT of people camp really close to each other. And kinda rule of thumb (in State or National Parks it IS Rule, not just kinda) is don't make so much noise or party so hard to bother other campers, yes? Especially don't stay up til 11, 12, 1 or later, yes? Moved 20 yrs ago from Midwest out here and never camping b4 I was amazed at how people self regulated, were considerate of others, when camping. Very little pollution, whether physical or noise. But not so much anymore. And no I don't agree with that. Have fun, meet old or new buddies, have a few drinks, talk it up. But not TOOOOO much. Easy on the noise, easy on the drinks (loud drunkeness is becoming very prevalent) , close it down around 10pm. I nor anyone else is asking you to take your party to another place - please don't tell me or others to get out of dodge either. Yes?? Is there not a middle ground of being considerate of others so your behavior does not make their camping experience unpleasant? Or worse? Yes? :nod:

[hesse15]

Tons of semi coherent, nonsensical blathering that makes you want to put a pillow over your face (or someone else's...).
uchh do i see the same intimidation still going on???"

stroke a nerve parking my car between yours that were 15 meters ( meters =50feet) and finding strange your request to go to bed at 9:30pm, when in blm and national park is usually 10pm!

i see

[hesse15]

(any secret places u know I can hide form the pack?) Have never seen it as you describe, I believe you. :nod:
there are you have to ask RC on AJ site, he will never camp at sandtrax unless under torture!!!
i remember the ticaboo road if is not bad condition as camping and also the road to the angel slots but there are other places scattered everywhere . you can ask PennyMartens she will know all the remote quiet camping spots.
We were just chatting and was 9:30pm the guy was not friendly and there was not drunkness going on at all
by the way i think the same group that complained the night before keep everybody awake until midnight, but i was not there so is hearsay
the busiest times are when fest are there like the newyears one and others!!!!
and parties going until the am and few hrs later starting canyons. with fire explosions and live entertainments!

but really after the pillow comment above can you tell who is the problem???:nono:
a poor chick bored at work that like to bla bla a lot but totally harmless?:popcorn:

[flatiron]

boaters, atvers, hunters, hikers and canyoneers

:2thumbs:

OK, now we have identified the problem! What the h--- are we allowing boaters, atvers, and hunters at Sandthrax for? :fitz: What's this country coming to? Sheesh!

[jman]

This has been a super entertaining thread, for what it's worth.

But making a side comment - "best of north wash" is definitely not the campground. It sucks, unless you are by yourself. I'm glad people like flatiron have a sense of propriety and common decency.

But man...the few stories I can tell about camping and our fellow neighbors. Hmm...in fact, I'll create a thread in the general section right now. That sounds fun and very entertaining actually, knowing that I'm not the only one who has had a miserable night due to the neighbors...

[Bootboy]

Hesse

I was still mulling around at 9:30. I said nothing about drunkenness or about going to bed to anyone. I personally went to bed at about 10:30. Your in-your-face, deal-with-it attitude would be hard to tolerate even with a little liquor on board. If north wash is where you creep around like the local socialite, you can expect to not see me there again, and you can park wherever the hell you want.

I guess it's a free country and you can do what ever, and behave however you want, but the truth is, that it is public land and as such, you being a local fixture or frequent flyer in no way gives any excuse for your rude behavior. Why deny others an enjoyable experience there? Why would you not want someone, perhaps from way out of town, to remember that place as a place they'd like to come back to? Instead of a place with rude locals who drink too much, talk too loud and too late, and park too close.

I guess I learned my lesson. I found plenty of other places to camp after the fact, where, if and when I return to North wash, I will stay instead. I certainly can't expect you to modify or change your behavior and I'll not run the risk of running afoul of you again.

Sandthrax CG? For the partiers or the birds...

[hank moon]

CampThrax 2001-2013: evolved from an obscure UDOT staging area with virtually no public visitation (ah, those were the days) to anarchic human circus.

Proof that government is sometimes necessary?

[hesse15]

Hesse

I was still mulling around at 9:30. I said nothing about drunkenness or about going to bed to anyone. I personally went to bed at about 10:30. Your in-your-face, deal-with-it attitude would be hard to tolerate even with a little liquor on board. If north wash is where you creep around like the local socialite, you can expect to not see me there again, and you can park wherever the hell you want.

I guess it's a free country and you can do what ever, and behave however you want, but the truth is, that it is public land and as such, you being a local fixture or frequent flyer in no way gives any excuse for your rude behavior. Why deny others an enjoyable experience there? Why would you not want someone, perhaps from way out of town, to remember that place as a place they'd like to come back to? Instead of a place with rude locals who drink too much, talk too loud and too late, and park too close.

I guess I learned my lesson. I found plenty of other places to camp after the fact, where, if and when I return to North wash, I will stay instead. I certainly can't expect you to modify or change your behavior and I'll not run the risk of running afoul of you again.

Sandthrax CG? For the partiers or the birds...
first all yeah was 9:30 when you or somebody that did not introduce himself told us to go to bed,and we were really polite and we lower our tone of voice immediately!!!!
the parking come on why do you parked your cars a mile apart?:nono:
and is too bad you got that impression of me ,if you spent 5 minutes talking in face i am sure you will have a very different prospect,but who cares at this point!!!!
i am going there for long time and never had any problems with neighbors, plus i sleep as a rock so people noise does not bother me at all.
good if you have good spot could you share with flatiron he was looking for alternative?
i like the social aspect of the campground that you always find new or old friends so probably is not the best spot for you after all if you want a WILDERNESS experience next to the highway.

by the way spending all your breakfast bad mouthing us ( one of ours was in the hill behind you) is not nice have at least the balls to tell things in the face!!!!
ps :by the way the loud person most of the people here knows him and most like him a lot and are very happy when they do canoyns with him.
he is one of those few guys out there that you want in your group if thing start to get hard and require REAL skills.

ps do not worry we get plenty of Colorado friends in Sandtrax

and you must be a general complainer about camping because you you were complaining about the secret group of 60 in the swell at their 9th annual gathering in both forum less than a month ago!!!!!!:popcorn:did not have any clue what was going on!:popcorn:

[hesse15]

CampThrax 2001-2013: evolved from an obscure UDOT staging area with virtually no public visitation (ah, those were the days) to anarchic human circus.

Proof that government is sometimes necessary?
lets put a bathroom!!!!!

[Bootboy]

i am going there for long time and never had any problems with neighbors, plus i sleep as a rock so people noise does not bother me at all.

ps :by the way the loud person most of the people here knows him and most like him a lot and are very happy when they do canoyns with him.
he is one of those few guys out there that you want in your group if thing start to get hard and require REAL skills.



First of all, maybe you've never had problems with neighbors because you're the one making all the noise. If there were two of you there maybe you'd try to kill each other. Second, Not all of us are such heavy sleepers.

I don't give a shit how good you are and how much people like you on their team in a canyon, it's still rude to talk all night.

You're logic is as follows: "Oh, this guy has mad skills, he can talk as long and as loud as he wants."

"Hmm. It's 9:00. I'm just Rollin into S-thrax. There's gobs of parking but who knows how many thousands of people will show up over night. Better leave enough room My group is on the right, but there's 2 cars 50 yards away on the left. I'll park right behind them and sleep right next to them."

"I come here a lot, so I can behave however I want and people just have to accept it, or they can go somewhere else "

"I'm so used to myself that no one else could possibly bother me. I've never had any problems with neighbors, therefore: no one could possibly have ever had a problem with me."

And so on. You're delusional lady. You can have your camp ground. Like I said. I'll not run the risk of you double parking me again.

[Slot Machine]

Once in a while you will visit a swimming pool and there will be some chick sitting in the vicinity of the diving board with her cell phone and her paperback novel, her hair done up nice and neat. Inevitably, some fat kid will come along and do a screaming cannonball off the diving board and splash her.

Predictably, that chick will freak the f*** out, much to the amusement of everyone at the pool.


I am amused. :kickit:

[tiho]

You're delusional lady.

The bogley site can be held liable for cyber-bulling. It has been done in the past for other sites.

[MiCamp]

I think we're all losing sight of the main point of this thread- 'Best of North Wash' and I for one think that Bootboy got robbed?

All he wanted to do was go to an area he’s never been before and knock-off Shenanigans, Middle Lep and Sandthrax in a ten hour day.
And he woulda done it too if it wasn’t for the cold, the water, the mud, his partners, inconsiderate campers and not enough sleep. I mean, how’s a man gonna be the Best of North Wash if obstacles keep getting in his way.

Sad, just really really sad.

[Slot Machine]

The bogley site can be held liable for cyber-bulling. It has been done in the past for other sites.

Tiho! Hey man, I remember you from the theater! You've been doing canyons I assume?

The site itself can be held liable? Or the specific user? Could you provide a link to a case? :hmm2:

[tiho]

https://sites.google.com/a/legalknol.com/www/cyber-law/cyber-bullying-lawsuit-against-facebook-by-new-york-teenager

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/oceanside-teen-sues-facebook-ex-classmates-for-3m-1.896009

http://cyberbullying.us/

[Byron]

cyber-bullingOh for Christ's sake...it's not like anyone here is pestering someone to the point of suicide.

So it's come to the point where someone can come in all loudmouthed, rude, insulting and obnoxious...then subsequently be handed their ass on a plate...and then claim that THEY are being bullied? What a friggin' joke.

If you're going to dish it out, you'd better be able to take it.

[tiho]

I am not taking sides in who is rude and who is not. But if you are using public harassment/humiliation to draw more web traffic to your site/sell more google ads I think you can be held liable. Cyber-bullying is not about suicides. Most internet forums have moderators that will keep things civil. It seems like bogley has a long tradition of harassment all over.

[Absolute Gravity]

I am not taking sides in who is rude and who is not. But if you are using public harassment/humiliation to draw more web traffic to your site/sell more google ads I think you can be held liable. Cyber-bullying is not about suicides. Most internet forums have moderators that will keep things civil. It seems like bogley has a long tradition of harassment all over.

Oooooh! Shit! THIS thread isn't civil?

Bogley's in BIIIIGGGG trouble :roflol::roflol::roflol:

[Bootboy]

I am not taking sides in who is rude and who is not. But if you are using public harassment/humiliation to draw more web traffic to your site/sell more google ads I think you can be held liable. Cyber-bullying is not about suicides. Most internet forums have moderators that will keep things civil. It seems like bogley has a long tradition of harassment all over.


I started out as the frustrated OP and then started to have fun with this, but this latest turn has me rolling. Cyber bullying! Haha! Guilty as charged! Like it's all about the google ads and page views around here. Haha!

[Slot Machine]

Most internet forums have moderators that will keep things civil. It seems like bogley has a long tradition of harassment all over.

The mods keep things to a dull roar. No eye-gouging or biting allowed. Both Hesse and Bootboy know things work around here...

:popcorn:

[Byron]

The mods keep things to a dull roar. No eye-gouging or biting allowed. Both Hesse and Bootboy know things work around here...

:popcorn:Outstanding...well said. I belong to a handful of forums, and Bogley is by far my favorite because the mods aren't nazis and the folks around here are actually quite civil...believe me, I can point you to some sites where it gets REALLY UGLY among the people that frequent them. What arguing that occurs around here is really lightweight, in my opinion.

[tiho]

So ... since anything goes around here .... I can be a macho man too ... Bootboy you are lucky I wasn't there ... Next time you come and harass me in the desert I will beat your head in your car bumper and stick your teeth up your ass. If I am not mistaken ... you are the guy that asked me to move my tent with two sleeping kids in it at the E3 trail-head because the camp site was yours. Sounds familiar? I feel sorry for you and your GF ... both of you will have to live with you for the rest of your life.

[Byron]

Dude...kicking in teeth and smashing heads against bumpers? A little over the top, eh? Well congratulations...you've stepped well over the line of lightweight arguing and general civility I mentioned in my post. Way to go, macho man!:cool2:

[Bootboy]

So ... since anything goes around here .... I can be a macho man too ... Bootboy you are lucky I wasn't there ... Next time you come and harass me in the desert I will beat your head in your car bumper and stick your teeth up your ass. If I am not mistaken ... you are the guy that asked me to move my tent with two sleeping kids in it at the E3 trail-head because the camp site was yours. Sounds familiar? I feel sorry for you and your GF ... both of you will have to live with you for the rest of your life.

You are in fact, mistaken. I've never been to E3 and I've never asked anyone to move their tent. Wasn't me. Why don't you pull your head out. You had nothing to do with the original encounter in this thread and so far you've failed to contribute anything worthwhile. You just showed up and started getting super pissed off and enraged for no apparent reason. Sounds like you've really got it out for someone. Chill out man. Lay off my girl friend. You've never met us and I hope never to meet you at this point.

Why did you set your tent up in site that wasn't yours anyway? Sounds like you're one of the rudies that I began ranting about in the first place. I guess I'm just hittin a little close to home eh? Is it a free-for-all for you everywhere you go? Do you just expect to able to poach campsites and not have its rightful occupant to get upset? Sheesh...

[hesse15]

I think we're all losing sight of the main point of this thread- 'Best of North Wash' and I for one think that Bootboy got robbed?
All he wanted to do was go to an area he’s never been before and knock-off Shenanigans, Middle Lep and Sandthrax in a ten hour day.
And he woulda done it too if it wasn’t for the cold, the water, the mud, his partners, inconsiderate campers and not enough sleep. I mean, how’s a man gonna be the Best of North Wash if obstacles keep getting in his way.
Sad, just really really sad.
usually as soon as you reveal their incompetence so many "self ego proclaimed experts" turn themselves crazy slashing out and finding excuses after excuses Always somebody else fault, the first sign of incompetence!!!!!
you know the type " i did heaps [full] so i am a bad ass!!!"
so he will do sandtrax for breakfast type but get his ass beaten by 2 small pool in shenanny!!!
I think Bootboy can get some of his minions and do scorpion ,psychodamage and some others canyons in powell area and get his ego down a bit!!!!
but please leave friends and family members at home safe so there is not risk you kill them in the process!!!!

ps: if somebody bother you,have the balls to talk in the face not in a forum behind the back!!!:popcorn::nono:

[Bootboy]

usually as soon as you reveal their incompetence so many "self ego proclaimed experts" turn themselves crazy slashing out and finding excuses after excuses Always somebody else fault, the first sign of incompetence!!!!!
you know the type " i did the heaps [full] so i am a bad ass!!!"
so he will do sandtrax for breakfast type but get his ass beaten by 2 small pool in shenanny!!!
I think Bootboy can get some of his minions and do scorpion ,psychodamage and some othere canyons and get his ego down a bit!!!!
but please leave friends and family member at home and safe!!!!

ps: if somebody bother you,have the balls to talk in the face not in a forum behind the back!!!:popcorn::nono:

I knew you'd be back...

You sure have a way with being inflammatory.

I don't know where the assumption that I got my ass beat in shenanigans came from. It was taxing, yes. But by no means was it the end of me. I'm not the best canyoneer in town, but ask anyone who knows me or has done a canyon with me if they think I'm incompetent. The answer might shock you. As far as what we accomplished that day, we decided that we'd play it safe as the conditions did in fact add an element that we had not fully anticipated. I have no shame in my ambition to do several hard canyons in a day. I think my competence shows in the fact that even though we had planned more, I made the decision to change our plans based on the time of day, condition of the group, and the anticipation that similar conditions in subsequent canyons would likely add time to those as well. I can't be entirely sure, but I think that had shenanigans been dry, we probably could have shaved 2 hours from our time. It also seems reasonable to me to assume that with dry, clean shoes, things may have been a little easier and we would have found ourselves with more energy after the first canyon.

How this discussion got from you being rude and obnoxious to me being a complete canyon numpty is a nice tactic to distract others from your own inconsiderate behavior. You're like the fifth grader who, when called out on being a little jerk, can only think to say "well...you suck!". Nice

[Kuya]

" i did heaps [full] so i am a bad ass!!!"

hey!? I resemble that comment! :crazy:

I think there are more than a few people on here that have EGO issues Hesse! :ne_nau: I think id choose team Bootboy over team Hesse after reading all your nonsense on this post.

[deagol]

Against my own better judgment, I am adding to this thread. My only point is this: It should not matter how good or bad of a canyoneer you are. Be a courteous campground user; and in return, you should be able to expect being treated courteously by other campground users. Being a “badass” canyoneer doesn’t give anyone the right to be a rude campground user. That’s all….

[hesse15]

hey!? I resemble that comment! :crazy:

I think there are more than a few people on here that have EGO issues Hesse! :ne_nau: I think id choose team Bootboy over team Hesse after reading all your nonsense on this post.
team Hesse has a 0 record of accidents in the last 10 years!!
and if you are the team brothers from spanish fork we did canyons togheter while ago
I noticed your little admiration for bootboy!
i just do not like when if i was bothering him so much in camp he did not say anything on my face ,but slashing on my back in his campsite and on a forum!!!!
afraid of a tiny 5 feet 120lbs girl??:popcorn:

[hesse15]

Against my own better judgment, I am adding to this thread. My only point is this: It should not matter how good or bad of a canyoneer you are. Be a courteous campground user; and in return, you should be able to expect being treated courteously by other campground users. Being a “badass” canyoneer doesn’t give anyone the right to be a rude campground user. That’s all….

you were not there,so is hard to call who was rude and who was not!
so i parked between 2 cars that were spaced 50 feet.
at 9:30pm when somebody asked us we lower our voice to whisper!!
is what you call a person "rude"?
nobody asked me to move my car and nobody was also sleeping there, the car was just parked in the main parking area before the sand dunes (if you are familiar with the camp)
so hard to make assumptions out of somebody rants!!!
i am not a bad ass , but i hope my ass and the rest of my body still look good for pictures after so many years!!!!!

[deagol]

you were not there,so is hard to call who was rude and who was not!
so i parked between 2 cars that were spaced 50 feet.
at 9:30pm when somebody asked us we lower our voice to whisper!!
is what you call a person "rude"?
nobody asked me to move my car and nobody was also sleeping there, the car was just parked in the main parking area before the sand dunes (if you are familiar with the camp)
so hard to make assumptions out of somebody rants!!!
i am not a bad ass , but i hope my ass and the rest of my body still look good for pictures after so many years!!!!!

Not trying to get involved. If you notice, my post did not call anyone out and didn't name names. It didn't try to assign behavior to any one at all, just good points to keep in mind in any camping situation.

No assumptions made, but there is plenty of evidence in this thread as to what did occur.

[pikan]

:popcorn:

[hesse15]

No assumptions made, but there is plenty of evidence in this thread as to what did occur.
whatever just not classy to talk on the back and not in the face!!!!
if i bothered somebody not nice to find out in a forum,when bootboy had plenty of time at camp to tell me in the face!!
and considering bootboy also complained camping in the swell with another group,probably that will give you an hint!!:popcorn:
ps:boring day at work!!!!!

[tiho]

No assumptions made, but there is plenty of evidence in this thread as to what did occur.

On the contrary ... I think I know at least 3 of the people that were in the group of 5 and I know them as good very courteous and near legendary folks.

What I find really obnoxious is peoples intolerance of other people. You are in the most beautiful place on earth - smile and talk nice to others instead of threatening and intimidating them. You don't have the right to tell other people where to park - it is not a reserved camp site. Bring a fence with you next time if you are so desperate to keep people out ... or rent a private room ... or go to a reserved campground where your space is guaranteed. But you don't have the right to tell other people when to go to bed, if they should drink or not, if they can talk or not ... and please double parking in Sandtrax it is not possible that you couldn't get out ... the campground frequently has 50 cars and nobody complains. Uhh... For the record ... indeed .... Bootboy is not the E3 guy ... so sorry for that.

[deagol]

...My only point is this:..... Be a courteous campground user.... That’s all….


Boy, am I glad I wasn't there.. not sure why people are directing comments at me. I'm only saying that people (and that includes everyone) should be courteous when camping & being great at canyons doesn't give anyone reason or justification to be rude in camp (notice: I didn't say anyone posting here WAS or WASN'T rude). This is a generic statement that reflects many of my own camping experiences and is not tied to this Sandthrax episode.

I will point out again: I did not name names or attach any specific behavior to any poster here.

RE: the group in the Swell, I wasn't there either and never disparaged it

[hesse15]

Boy, am I glad I wasn't there.. not sure why people are directing comments at me.I will point out again: I did not name names or attach any specific behavior to any poster here.
RE: the group in the Swell, I wasn't there either and never disparaged it
sorry i did not understand the below comment was for bootboy!!!!:mrgreen:
[QUOTE=deagol;546162] Being a

[nelsonccc]

Good 'ole canyoneering forum. I tried to resist but I just CANT! Man I'm glad I stopped in here today with all this ranting and raving over a dirt pull-out. Common courtesy should be practiced at all times. Pretty easy to see just from the posts and the way people have been responding in here who was the initial problem causer. Talking and ranting in a camp site and now talking and ranting on a forum.


I guess the bottom line is its just too much to ask for in this day and age that someone would practice common courtesy and exercise better judgement when camping at a spot full of other people. Seems like people simply refuse to show any type of character and respect to others.

I think, like most of the other non-participants on here, that general common courtesy should be applied in all situations.

[Absolute Gravity]

Good hell, everyone here needs to go get laid. All this over a noisy night at Sandthrax?

[deagol]

you must have lost in translation that i CLEARLY wrote:
'bootboy" was the one complainer about camping with another group in the swell!!!
..

I had 2 family members in that group in the Swell and knew the group, as a whole, would be responsible. In fairness, I did read a post by Bootboy (can't rememeber where) where he gave kudos to the group stating how well they left the campsite after the gathering (this may have been either here on Bogley or on the CC website ???). This was after the initial concern when the group gathering was posted.

It's good to know that at least the other situation (the large group in the Swell and the concern over it) had a happy ending. I can only hope for the same to happen here.


Good hell, everyone here needs to go get laid. All this over a noisy night at Sandthrax?

Just keep the noise down, please ; )

With this post, I will bow out of this thread.

[Bootboy]

On the contrary ... I think I know at least 3 of the people that were in the group of 5 and I know them as good very courteous and near legendary folks.

What I find really obnoxious is peoples intolerance of other people. You are in the most beautiful place on earth - smile and talk nice to others instead of threatening and intimidating them. You don't have the right to tell other people where to park - it is not a reserved camp site. Bring a fence with you next time if you are so desperate to keep people out ... or rent a private room ... or go to a reserved campground where your space is guaranteed. But you don't have the right to tell other people when to go to bed, if they should drink or not, if they can talk or not ... and please double parking in Sandtrax it is not possible that you couldn't get out ... the campground frequently has 50 cars and nobody complains. Uhh... For the record ... indeed .... Bootboy is not the E3 guy ... so sorry for that.

Your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired. You've obviously not read a thing I've said or you are willfully ignorant of the facts given in my commentary. I never told anyone to go to bed and people should just be courteous enough to not crowd others with their cars in an area the size of a football field. I never asserted that I had the right to tell anyone anything. I know I was in a beautiful place and was just disappointed that others lacked the awareness and courtesy to allow others a better experience. I'm not sure how this makes me the bad guy. I don't care if those people are "near legendary", their status has nothing to do with anything. The fact is they talked loudly until 1:00 a.m. I'm just stating the facts.


I never complained about the group in the swell either. I merely expressed concern about the potential impact that a group of 60+ could have. All too often large crowds are known to make messes. I went down the next week and was delighted that it was no worse for the wear. You guys sit here and shout over the facts at straw men in the face of my simple statements. I guess Im the rude one for minding my own business in camp.

You guys are obviously immune to reasonable conversation about this. I guess rational thought just escapes you. I guess I'm sorry I said anything and that you (Hesse) are completely unwilling to recognize you own inconsiderate behavior for what it is, much less apologize for it, and attempt to make excuses for it out of completely irrelevant points. Instead of engaging in a civil conversation, you (tiho) simply resort to threats of physical violence. Once again, I must be the guilty party here. You weren't there. Don't act like you were.

And what if I was the E3 guy? Would you really smash my bumper in with my face? If so, you have no place in a civil society. If you choose to start stomping the skulls of anyone whose campsite you choose to occupy if they ask you to move, you should be willing to accept the risk of getting yourself in over your head. Not everybody takes threats of physical violence so lightly.

The two of you will no doubt fail to grasp the contents of this post and continue to spray your irrational vitriol in light of my statement of facts.

The two of you are beyond reason and clearly incapable of civil discussion.

I'm going to quit defending myself because I believe that with what has transpired in this thread that you have sufficiently exposed yourselves for what you are that people can see it.

[Byron]

Nice! I just got home from work...wondering what happened in this puke fest today.

Did any of you happen to notice that Bootboy had no idea WHO the person(s) was that he was bothered by at Campthrax? He didn't call anyone out, he had no idea...

If, after reading his post, I determined that it was me or my friends that he had issues with, ya know what I would have done? This...:whistling:

Why the heck would you identify yourself and then go on a rampage? Quite frankly, I would have sent him a PM (if anything at all), identified myself and probably apologized for being not cool...and then perhaps suggest that we hike together sometime?

I can't think of a single person on Bogley that I wouldn't like to meet and do stuff with...and I've had a few epic battles, too. I think there is a definitive line between witty, humorous, playful, perhaps biting jabs and outright snarling violence...don't cross that friggin' line and it's all good.

Hesse...you should have kept your mouth shut and not stepped into the spotlight with this, he didn't know it was you...and neither did anyone else. But, being that it seems like you're quite the little firebrand, maybe that's impossible?

Bootboy...perhaps you should have ignored her as soon as it got ugly. But I understand that that may have been hard considering how personal it became.

Anyway...my two cents for what it's (not) worth. Now kiss and make up, it's only going to get boring from here on out. Starting with this post, eh?

[Scott P]

(Changed my mind. Deleted.)

[PG Rob]

So ... since anything goes around here .... I can be a macho man too ... Bootboy you are lucky I wasn't there ... Next time you come and harass me in the desert I will beat your head in your car bumper and stick your teeth up your ass.


What I find really obnoxious is peoples intolerance of other people. You are in the most beautiful place on earth - smile and talk nice to others instead of threatening and intimidating them.

Do we have an oxyMORON here?

[Scott Card]

:facepalm1: Thread title "Best of North Wash". Hardly.

[dweaver2130]

I love slogging terribly steep, slippery, and sun bleached rocks, rappelling through my fear of heights, and swimming in foul ice water to see the most beautiful places on Earth....

[hank moon]

:facepalm1: Thread title "Best of North Wash". Hardly.

Yes. Mods, please immediately change it to

"Dark and seedy underbelly of North Wash camp culture"

merci

[rick t]

chrtistina can be a little volatile, but forgivable under these circumstances, of being falsely accused. Her car blocked no one. The decidedly rude visitor from his campsite ordered our campfire group, only five people, none of whom were intoxicated, to be quiet because they were trying to sleep. At 9:28 pm. And then threatened us, saying that "he had better not have to come back". Totally inappropriate and bizzare. Shocked and stunned, we reverted to almost whispers. And to correct the exaggeration/fabrication above, the fire was out and everyone had gone to bed, prior to 11 pm; I was the last one up, and banked the coals before turning in. far from the ficticious "12 or 1 oclock", alleged. It would appear that the difficulties this group experienced coping the next day may extend beyond just canyons.

[DesertDuke]

This thread has me questioning whether I want to camp at Sandthrax at all. If I want to enjoy the best of North Wash.....is this the only decent car camping around here?

[Byron]

This thread has me questioning whether I want to camp at Sandthrax at all. If I want to enjoy the best of North Wash.....is this the only decent car camping around here?It's nice if you like company around. The thing about that place is, you never know what you're going to get. It's like staying at one of the National Park campgrounds...one night it's quiet as a mouse by 10pm and the next there are people up 'till midnight carrying on. Campthrax is a roll of the dice.

There are plenty of places to camp nearby. That's usually what I'll do, just for the guaranteed peace and quiet. As a rule of thumb though, when I'm around strangers, is to tone it down after 10...even if I'm still around the campfire.

[dweaver2130]

Best camping experience I have had was at Sandthrax during FF....Hot fresh donuts, ICE cold champagne, good stories, and a after midnight Dog SAR.....did I mention hot fresh donuts?

[ratagonia]

This thread has me questioning whether I want to camp at Sandthrax at all. If I want to enjoy the best of North Wash.....is this the only decent car camping around here?

Sandthrax is a largish camp. Plunking down in the middle, and expecting quiet? --- priceless!

Tom

[Iceaxe]

And then threatened us, saying that "he had better not have to come back".

Dang... I'd pay good money for someone to tell me that.... just so I could tell them to it ain't going to happen.... but then again... sometimes I can be a real ass.... snicker-snicker.....



Tap'n on my Galaxy G3