Finding Canyoneering Partners

[Iceaxe]

Now days I mostly do canyons with friends and family, but there was a time I was a real canyon slut and doing canyons with dozens of people I meet on the interwebs. 95% of the time I had a very positive experience, a couple of times I couldn't wait for the trip to end so I never had to see my partner again. Anyhoo.... here are a few thoughts on finding partners....


I'd suggest that finding canyon partners on a forum like Bogley is a better option than using meet-up. At least on the canyon forums you can review trip reports from most potential partners. That should at least give you some basic knowledge of what you are getting into. Often you can get others who's opinion you trust to give you some feedback through private messages.


Honestly I can usually read a couple trip reports and look at a few pictures or video and get a pretty solid idea of the skills of potential canyoneering partners.


And there is nothing wrong with going out with noobs, so long as you are aware your partners are noobs and you select an adventure appropriate to the skill level.

:cool2:

[Slot Machine]

Steph brought up this question:

How is an Iceaxe Moabfest different from a Meetup group gathering? Is there a screening process (for lack of a better term)?

Honest questions, no sarcasm.

[PG Rob]

And there is nothing wrong with going out with noobs, so long as you are aware your partners are noobs and you select an adventure appropriate to the skill level.


I agree! I don't see the fuss with taking out noobs. I do all the time. Noobs can do great in most canyons with good leadership. The key is if you are a noob and do not have regular friends that are competent, how do you find competent people to go with.


I'd suggest that finding canyon partners on a forum like Bogley is a better option than using meet-up. At least on the canyon forums you can review trip reports from most potential partners. That should at least give you some basic knowledge of what you are getting into. Often you can get others who's opinion you trust to give you some feedback through private messages

I don't know if a noob would be able to accurately assess the competency to lead a group by trip reports. I do think they can get feedback through PM of others.

[hesse15]

Steph brought up this question:

How is an Iceaxe Moabfest different from a Meetup group gathering? Is there a screening process (for lack of a better term)?
Honest questions, no sarcasm.
never been to the moab fest but been to multiple WMC 101canyon classes.
logistic
knowing the canyon like your hand ( in meetup sometime is the first time for the leader too)
assessing skills of newbies and put them as close at the leader if they are in need of assistance
put more experienced or climbers in the middle and leaders at both ends, keep group small
teaching skills at the beginning of the canyon ,how to DC how to check obstacle how to stem.
keeping everybody watching for each other like spotter firemans etc etc
making everybody contributing, like carrrying weight ,stuffing ropes ,so people do not think are "guided"
make sure nobody does stupid like jumping DC or rappelling head down for fun

[deagol]

There could be a problem with someone ho doesn't post trip reports, though ....

[Deathcricket]

I myself was lucky enough to hook up with a great group in Saint George who I now consider close friends. Noobs don't bother us at all, but we have had a couple problems with people we like to call "little emperors", people who are skillful but just douchebags. So when recruiting, we try to make sure they are a person I won't mind having a beer with afterwards rather than "how many canyons have you done?" type questions. Then we also try to network with other cool groups, like Kody's crew for instance, those guys are a blast to hang with. Then when filling a trip we usually don't have any trouble getting enough people.

But I think the main problem arises from ego. "I have done "x" number of canyons" and "I have x type of skills" people tend to scare me, and chances are I would not be following them into a canyon now. I like a group where everyone has input, rather than one leader. Early on I went into a couple groups where we had a self proclaimed leader, and I was kinda just depending on them to get me through a canyon. ANd I think that is where most problems arise. But when I got in this STG group they made me inspect my own riggings, help belay, and pointed stuff out to me, really opened my eyes to how "blind" I had been following the puffed out chest alpha group leaders that seem abundant in this sport. Now we do the same for our noobs, and once you turn their focus to proactive, I think the benefit is way more obvious. But having a cool non abrasive personality in the first place is key.

Then lastly, there are what I like to call "cool visitors" people from this site like Deeps and Trackrunner who I "maybe" see once a year because they live so far away, but who are hella cool to hang out with when they do visit. It just takes time to make the connections slowly but surely. Just gotta hang on to the "good ones" when you find em.

But really every single connection besides my "STG Z-crew" has been from this site. And they would prob hang here if the rules were a bit more loose. We don't always wear helmets, get permits, rap upside down, etc.. And the chastisement is a bit harsh sometimes, I enjoy it, but can see why they don't. So we have a private facebook group that works perfect for organizing trips and such.

[MiCamp]

A couple thoughts from a noob.

Personally I’ve had great success finding some new canyoneering partners on Bogley. I posted an invite and soon received a reply asking for a bit more information about myself (a good first sign as only a moron or meet-up group would just say hell-ya come along.) Next I was invited on a relatively easy outing (second good sign- a relatively safe environment in which we were all able to observe each others skills, work ethic and general compatibility). And only after consideration on their part, and mine, did we do any real canyons.
I’m sure, and hope, they were watching me to see where my skill set was at, what my attitude was and if I’d be a safety liability (no one wants to be responsible for rescuing anyone, especially an idiot). And even though I’m a noob, I was watching them to see if I felt comfortable learning from them and as importantly if I felt comfortable that they wouldn’t endanger my safety (distinctly different from them keeping me safe- as responsibility for my safety is mine alone.) And it turned out well.
I think its pretty simple- same advice as my dad gave me when I was learning to drive “Assume everyone on the road is an idiot*” Not feely good advice but it’ll keep you safe. (*different from treating everyone as if they were an idiot.)

A few more thoughts-

Be honest with yourself and teammates about your abilities.
Know which skills you need to learn or improve on.
Be open to learning and open to criticism.
Participate, contribute and stay engaged. You’re there to learn not be guided.
Keep your eyes and ears open, observe and ask questions if you don’t understand something.
Understand the ‘why’ of what you are learning not just the ‘how’. Right answers are nearly useless if you don’t understand why they’re right.
Respectfully question authority- experts aren’t correct, ideas are.
Pay attention to the mistakes you are making.
No Mountain Dewing it.
Have fun and be positive.

[ratagonia]

Great thread, thanks Ice.

Tom

[DesertDuke]

Dang, now I have "post regret". I have mostly dumb posts.....which I know expose my idiocy, but I never even contemplated that they might get me blacklisted. I need to stop showing my hand so prominently.

[Iceaxe]

Steph brought up this question:

How is an Iceaxe Moabfest different from a Meetup group gathering? Is there a screening process (for lack of a better term)?

Honest questions, no sarcasm.

I can't answer for Meetup as I have never been... but when I organize a fest I make certain all the groups have enough skilled talent in them to handle just about any situation that comes up. I mix the skilled with the noobs at a reasonable ratio. I cap attendance at a number I can manage. I often recruit skill from friends to cover any holes I see.

And when I say skilled I mean by my personal definition and not the took an ACA class and did Keyhole twice definition. My final test is would I feel comfortable with my kids in that group without me. If the answer is NO I fix the problem.





Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Iceaxe]

There could be a problem with someone ho doesn't post trip reports, though ....

Trip reports are just one tool. You can ask potential partners questions by private message. What canyons have you done? Who have you done them with? Were you leading or following? (That's a big difference).

:popcorn:

[flatiron]

I can't answer for Meetup as I have never been... but when I organize a fest I make certain all the groups have enough skilled talent in them to handle just about any situation that comes up. I mix the skilled with the noobs at a reasonable ratio. I cap attendance at a number I can manage. I often recruit skill from friends to cover any holes I see.

And when I say skilled I mean by my personal definition and not the took an ACA class and did Keyhole twice definition. My final test is would I feel comfortable with my kids in that group without me. If the answer is NO I fix the problem.


And this would be why your fests, or others that you referenced going to, did not have accidents. Just basic sound leadership and organizing - actually paying attention, not just lip service, to trying to make sure each group has good skilled people. The final test analogy is dead on!

So the solution is pretty simple. The real problem - how to get every fest or meetup to apply this simple standard? :popcorn:

BTW - it seems this also applies to any group - it sums up how I try to organize any trips I do. Get some good skilled people - maybe a mix of skills. If noobies or newer ones along, make sure they know what to expect, train, teach, and help them to learn canyon safety. Pretty soon u have another experienced partner to do canyons with.