Had to use the contingency anchor to lower

[dougr]

I was out in a party of 3 yesterday doing the 7 Cataracts off Mt. Lemmon in Tucson, AZ. Crew of 2 experienced males, with 1 female new to wet canyons.

On the 90' 3rd rappel, which is in and under a waterfall its entire length, the noob got caught up and panicked. Water flow at that point down the face was a good spray rather than a flow, but enough nonetheless to cause fear for the uninitiated. Pic attached of me on the rappel. I had rigged a releasable anchor using a figure 8. I quickly lowered her the last 40' or so. Operation was smooth and uneventful, save for the actual reality that a panicked noob was under water and shrieking for a few minutes. First time ever for a lower in years of this sport.

It was great to quickly remedy what could have been a nasty situation sans the releasable. Several reflections on the situation.

1. I always rig a releasable 8, I don't care what. Rock knocking someone out, a slip and head whack, or what happened in this case. Good confirmation of.
2. I had rigged the 8 in the "easier to release" mode (no twist on the bight that goes back through the 8). I need to review that practice. Although easier to release, it logically has to compromise holding friction. I am always LAMAR, so tie a backup on the 8 in case it slips. Yet it has never slipped in years of use.
3. I carry plenty of gear to make a raise possible, but admittedly don't practice that as much. Reminder to be prepared for something, anything to go wrong.
4. No matter the "experience" a noob has in the dry, nothing adequately prepares for water on the face and the need to remain calm.

69412

[davehuth]

1. I always rig a releasable 8

Question for you, on longer raps, 250 ft say, do you rig a single 500 ft rope or have an extra 250 to tie on and pass the knot through the 8 somehow?

[qedcook]

If you use a big enough figure eight belay device, the knot can get through just fine. But is the pull cord strong enough to handle the weight of lowering a person???

[TommyBoy]

I must admit that I almost never rig releasable, but then I don't take very many noobs out either. I know how to convert to a lowering system if something does go wrong though. Also the few times I've been with noobs I did rig releasable. Never had to lower someone though outside of practice.

[ratagonia]

Question for you, on longer raps, 250 ft say, do you rig a single 500 ft rope or have an extra 250 to tie on and pass the knot through the 8 somehow?

Allow me to butt in...

Neither.

Run your retrieval rope through the contingency anchor, then tie it to the rappel rope. Rappeller set up just below the knot - the knot is below the lowering system. If needed, the entire length of the retrieval rope can be used to lower.

Tom

[ratagonia]

If you use a big enough figure eight belay device, the knot can get through just fine. But is the pull cord strong enough to handle the weight of lowering a person???

The situation is one where using a pull cord is a bad idea.

Tom

[dougr]

Question for you, on longer raps, 250 ft say, do you rig a single 500 ft rope or have an extra 250 to tie on and pass the knot through the 8 somehow?

Per Tom's answer, tie shorter ropes but put the knot on the load side beyond the 8. No use of a pull cord with a releasable; full ropes only. Raps beyond 200' would stretch my gear for a releasable, as I only have 200' ropes. I'd rig for a rap and lower, though.

[deagol]

Allow me to butt in...

Neither.

Run your retrieval rope through the contingency anchor, then tie it to the rappel rope. Rappeller set up just below the knot - the knot is below the lowering system. If needed, the entire length of the retrieval rope can be used to lower.

Tom Isn't this how many do the final rap in Heaps? sending first person down that way so they can retrieve a cached 300 footer ?I've practiced with contingency, but very rarely have rigged that way in the field.

[qedcook]

The situation is one where using a pull cord is a bad idea.

Tom

Misunderstood the question. Sorry.

[Summit2Sea]

Allow me to butt in...

Neither.

Run your retrieval rope through the contingency anchor, then tie it to the rappel rope. Rappeller set up just below the knot - the knot is below the lowering system. If needed, the entire length of the retrieval rope can be used to lower.

Tom

Last man down would need to remember to move the knot back to the pull side, otherwise you won't be able to retrieve your rope.

[ratagonia]

Last man down would need to remember to move the knot back to the pull side, otherwise you won't be able to retrieve your rope.

Now for bonus points -

How do you rig it to provide contingency for the LAST person?

I can think of two way...

Tom

[skiclimb3287]

Great question Tom! Just for clarification, do you have additional rope available, or just the rope involved with the rappel?

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[ratagonia]

Great question Tom! Just for clarification, do you have additional rope available, or just the rope involved with the rappel?



Just the ropes already mentioned, though presuming 10-20 feet extra on them.

T

[dougr]

Now for bonus points -

How do you rig it to provide contingency for the LAST person?

I can think of two way...

Tom

Hmm. 8 set to releasable mode, pull side on the deck through someone's belay device. That would provide a lower of only the length of the excess rope.

Seems limited. 2 ways?

[ratagonia]

2 ways?

1-1/2 ways might be a more apt description.

Tom

[kiwi_outdoors]

q: was your preflight briefing adequate for the noob - explaining that its WET and that there is a backup plan so don't panic as panicking never helps etc etc

[dougr]

q: was your preflight briefing adequate for the noob - explaining that its WET and that there is a backup plan so don't panic as panicking never helps etc etc

It was. To my mind. I'm not sure a noob truly understands it all. "If you get stuck, I'll be able to lower you down." "How is that possible? Will you come down to help me?" "No, I'll release the anchor on this figure 8 here, and blah blah blah blah blah..." Probably got lost in the excitement of everything. But now she understands fully.

[ratagonia]

It was. To my mind. I'm not sure a noob truly understands it all. "If you get stuck, I'll be able to lower you down." "How is that possible? Will you come down to help me?" "No, I'll release the anchor on this figure 8 here, and blah blah blah blah blah..." Probably got lost in the excitement of everything. But now she understands fully.

As usual, probably reading a little too much into the exact wording of the post...

The pre-waterfall pep talk - I like to talk about the disorientation of having all those water drops hitting the helmet. Just stay calm, keep going down at a steady rate. You won't drown, your helmet creates a nice air space, etc.

Tom

[hank moon]

Roobosour

[Kuya]

Now for bonus points -

How do you rig it to provide contingency for the LAST person?

I can think of two way...

Tom

I can only think of setting up a top rope climbing setup. Pretty much the persons on the bottom lower the person at the the top like they would a climber that just finished a sport route.

[ratagonia]

I can only think of setting up a top rope climbing setup. Pretty much the persons on the bottom lower the person at the the top like they would a climber that just finished a sport route.

Ding ding! Give that man a Deep Creek Chocolate Cherry Scone!

This would be a 'ground anchor with contingency'. Got to be careful where you place the knot (assuming it is a 'long' rappel'*).

The other 'way' would be to set up a guided rappel, which serves much the same purpose as a contingency anchor.

Tom


* a 'long rappel' is one longer than half the length of the rope. a 'short rappel' is one shorter than half the length of the rope.

[hank moon]

Ding ding! Give that man a Deep Creek Chocolate Cherry Scone!

This would be a 'ground anchor with contingency'. Got to be careful where you place the knot (assuming it is a 'long' rappel'*).

The other 'way' would be to set up a guided rappel, which serves much the same purpose as a contingency anchor.

Tom


* a 'long rappel' is one longer than half the length of the rope. a 'short rappel' is one shorter than half the length of the rope.

Isn't there something still missing from this solution? The scenario: 230' rap using 2 x 250' ropes (the original problem involved a 250' rap and then Tom shaved up to 20' off of that for the LPD contingency bonus prob).

So, last rapper gets stuck on rope at -100' and needs to be lowered. It can't be done with a normal slingshot setup, nor with a guided rappel, unless...? What am I missing?

[ratagonia]

Isn't there something still missing from this solution? The scenario: 230' rap using 2 x 250' ropes (the original problem involved a 250' rap and then Tom shaved up to 20' off of that for the LPD contingency bonus prob).

So, last rapper gets stuck on rope at -100' and needs to be lowered. It can't be done with a normal slingshot setup, nor with a guided rappel, unless...? What am I missing?

Correct, to get full contingency (recommended!) the ropes need to be tied together in a loop, with the rappeller just below the top knot, and the contingency on the downstream side of the loop-making knot.

Some awkwardness might be involved. Hard to do if the length of the ropes is tight.

The point of the guided rappel is to rappel other than into the obstacle. It also takes a bit more rope than just rappelling it. And, of course, the guided rappel cannot be contingencied - but it is another powerful solution to the problem of rappelling into belligerent places.

Tom

[moab mark]

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Would not of thought of that. Thanks

[Summit2Sea]

Hmm, nice... Have to use that one when the person that should be going last needs to be on the deck for some reason, leaving someone not as experienced and/or comfortable at the top to go last. Bottom belay with contingency to lower... cool!!

Just need to make sure the anchor is solid due to the 2:1 disadvantage. :0)