Poe Canyon 08-22-13

[PG Rob]

First... a disclaimer: We have no pictures of this trip. I know... we are idiots for this. We typically take 3 go pros. Everyone had some little issue and expected the others would have theirs. We ended up with no camera or go pro, and no one was willing to take their cell phone for a camera. So, all I got is words.

A group of 6 of us went through Poe on Aug 22. We had a great time!! It was hot, although we did get some cloud cover, a little rain and some wind to cool it down.

We decided to take the "Shortcut" and found it is not really a shortcut. It is 8.7 miles, with considerable elevation gain and loss, from the Burr trail road across the plateau, over the reef and then down Halls Creek to where you ascend for Poe.

We didn't hit the trail off Burr Trail Road until 6 PM on Wednesday evening. We made good time crossing the plateau with its multiple ravines, and located the route down the reef just before dark as rain and lightning moved in. Once down to Halls Creek, it was pitch dark. Without knowing there was a trail up the west bench, we bushwhacked our way down Halls Creek. We planned on camping close to the ascent for Poe, but it was getting late so we found a place to camp just before Millers Creek.


Next morning, we filled water at Millers Creek and headed down towards the canyon. We located the place for the ascent easily. Route finding on the ascent its self was difficult. We consistently stayed on a good path, but it just seemed that we were so far away from the canyon. We made the ascent in 1:15 and were excited to finally get into this canyon.


In canyon, it starts out rather tame and continues to step up and up in difficulty as you move along. I was surprised by how many bolts were in there. We primarily used natural means to descend including downclimbing, slide and capture, fiddlesticking, sandtraps and potshots. We did all but 2 of the raps this way. Anchor building was fun; and with the fiddlestick, 2 sandtraps and 6 potshots, we were able to be very efficient in canyon.


There are several potholes in Poe that are much larger than the largest you see in other canyons. We beat these with potshot tosses and partner assists/stacking.


Problem solving is a lot of fun there. Ferrying sand, sequencing, transitioning between ascent and descent all made the canyon great.


The pit was much smaller than I had envisioned in my mind, although the toss was as difficult as I suspected. We used 3 throwers and took 8 throws total to land enough potshots. With the Pit nearly dry, ascent of the lines was easy. We had heard reports of a 26 foot hand over hand. In its current condition, it was 18 feet at most. The most difficult part of the pit was getting the last man (me) down the 20 ft drop into it. We had meat anchored everyone down but me and 1 other. Once we looked around, there were not many options for an anchor. We ended up rapping off a single, full potshot hanging off the lip of the above pothole 20-25 ft back from the drop with the rope zigzagging through the winding canyon between. There was no good placement closer because it was a steady slope downward. A sandtrap there would get stuck. Additionally, there was not a good enough constriction anywhere for a chockstone (this was our first option). The single potshot ended up working well and pulled fine.

As a side note on the Pit...we blew out 2 potshots on the tosses (because of this, I think 6 is the minimum needed for this canyon) or we would have made enough shots accross in 6 throws. Also, the actual climbing part of the climb over did not seem that hard. I climbed to within 4-5 feet of the first bolt to check it out. I did not inspect the bolts, but have been told they are loose. A fall from the over route, could easily result in death, or worse.


We rappelled off the Wart rather than build a tyrolean traverse over the wart pothole. The start to this rappel is precarious and requires someone to sit on top of the wart for each person to assure the webbing doesn't slide over the wart.



Everything had gone smoothly for us until we reached the last rappel. We used the bolts and sent everyone on down. We were out of there in great time... except we couldn't pull the rope. We tried and tried.... nothing!! I ended up having to ascend the rappel of about 175 ft to figure it out. Once up there, I could have kicked myself. I had set a biner block, and clipped it back into the anchor until the last person. I failed to release it before going down. After rappelling back down, the rope came fine and we were out of there. We ended up being in canyon for 7:15.


We spent Thursday night near the climb of the reef about 1 mile north of Millers Creek and hiked out Friday morning.


Not alot of water in canyon

No wetsuits

1 swimmer pothole

1 skeleton of a rams head with horns intact

1 snake in a pothole

Bushwhacking was crazy coming out of the canyon

Lots of beaver activity around

0 pictures taken

0 minutes of video taken


A great trip

Rob

[nelsonccc]

No pics of Poe=Fail. Didn't happen.

[Canyonater]

No pics of Poe=Fail. Didn't happen.


Exactly....I would have found a way to bring a camera....cell phone, disposable, something......

[TommyBoy]

Sounds like it was an awesome day, if it really happened, can't be too sure without the pics:haha::haha:. This ones on the list, gotta get some more gear first though, I only have 2 potshots and none of my regular crew has a sandtrap either. I'm hoping for next year sometime, maybe spring and make it a 3 day trip and do happy dog at the same time.

[pikan]

Boo to no pictures!:fitz:
How am I going to live vicariously through you guys until I have a chance to do this canyon myself?! :haha:

[Kuya]

Boo to no pictures!:fitz:
How am I going to live vicariously through you guys until I have a chance to do this canyon myself?! :haha:


Wait, you are ready for POE???! Sweet! lets get this trip planned ;) :nod: lol

[pikan]

Wait, you are ready for POE???! Sweet! lets get this trip planned ;) :nod: lol
I never said anything about being ready NOW! That will be a while. It's in the books! :mrgreen:

[Byron]

We decided to take the "Shortcut" and found it is not really a shortcut. It is 8.7 miles, with considerable elevation gain and loss, from the Burr trail road across the plateau, over the reef and then down Halls Creek to where you ascend for Poe.


Rob8.7 miles? NO WAY DUDE!!! If it was the beta I put up here a few months ago, you certainly didn't take my route...as mine is only 4 miles, which is considerable shorter than the airstrip route. Take a look at the map below, from the P (park) to the cliffs above Halls took me 2.5 hours to walk...it seems that you did 8.7miles in about 3 hours? 6p.m. to dark, you say...dude, that's like, running. Did your GPS tell you you walked that far? If it did, it's either jacked or you were walking around in circles...but, you did it in 3 hours...what the heck, something doesn't add up here.

CONSIDERABLE elevation gain and loss on the plateau trek? You must have been far north of my line...as it's pretty gnarly up there. Anyone following my route should stay as close to my line as possible, but then again, when you're there the flat ground is obvious. Yes, you do go in and out of Long Canyon, but it's only like 250 feet deep, and takes just minutes to cross. I have no idea what you did, but I'd really like to know.
http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=66779&stc=1&d=1370304108

[Byron]

The only thing I can reckon is that you parked far north of those switchbacks and ended up having to negotiate all the gnarly terrain up there...I think you parked in the wrong place, way wrong! Oh well, at least you found the route down the Hall Reef, so that's good.

[ilipichicuma]

Sounds awesome! I really need to get to this one eventually.

[Slot Machine]

Rob, how much water did you end up drinking the day you did the canyon? Did you end up needing to filter any pothole water? If so, how was it?

[PG Rob]

8.7 miles? NO WAY DUDE!!! If it was the beta I put up here a few months ago, you certainly didn't take my route...as mine is only 4 miles, which is considerable shorter than the airstrip route. Take a look at the map below, from the P (park) to the cliffs above Halls took me 2.5 hours to walk...it seems that you did 8.7miles in about 3 hours? 6p.m. to dark, you say...dude, that's like, running. Did your GPS tell you you walked that far? If it did, it's either jacked or you were walking around in circles...but, you did it in 3 hours...what the heck, something doesn't add up here.

CONSIDERABLE elevation gain and loss on the plateau trek? You must have been far north of my line...as it's pretty gnarly up there. Anyone following my route should stay as close to my line as possible, but then again, when you're there the flat ground is obvious. Yes, you do go in and out of Long Canyon, but it's only like 250 feet deep, and takes just minutes to cross. I have no idea what you did, but I'd really like to know.

69274

This is our route, which is your route. Thank you so much for offering it. We were excited to try it out and see how it worked. It was 4.3 miles from the parking lot to the top of the reef which took us 2 hours. When we were at the top of the reef at 8:00 PM, the sky was filled with dark clouds and it started to rain and lightning. It turned dark within 15 minutes. The 8.7 miles was from the parking lot to the end/start of Poe, which we did that night, and the following morning. So 4.4 miles of the trip included dropping down the reef and traversing south from the connection point with Halls Creek and Poe itself. We had 2 GPSs running. One a DeLorme handheld unit and the other a Garmin watch which were within tolerance of each other. We very well added mileage in the dark as we bushwacked down Halls Creek, but I dont think it would be considerable. The reason I said it wasnt much of a shortcut, is that once you are at the top of the reef, you still have a considerable ways to go. I was expecting it to be 2 miles shorter than it was. 6.5 miles would be a great shortcut. 8.7 is still a shortcut, but not as much as I was expecting.

Our GPSs also told us at the start of Poe that we had gained and lost about 3800 feet of elevation. Obviously, about 1000-1100 of that was the climb to the start of the canyon from Halls Creek. The remainder of that came across the plateau, down the reef and continuing on down Halls Creek to Poe, accounting for 2700-2800 ft of gain or loss. About 600 feet of that came from dropping down the reef, leaving 2100-2200 ft of gain or loss from the plateau and the trek down Halls Creek. There is only 100 ft of loss from where you first arrive at Halls Creek and the confluence with Poe. We likely added to that significantly by bushwacking back and forth along the banks and ridges in the dark. Once we found the trail in the light of morning, it still has some up and down to it. If we say that trek accounted for 5 times the actual loss and say 500 ft of gain and loss, it still leaves 1600-1700 ft of gain and loss for the plateau. While hiking, I do not necessarily notice gain or loss unless it is a significant grade for an extended period (ie... the trek up to the start of Poe) so I was surprised by the numbers as well. This is what I base that statement on. 1600-1700 ft of gain and loss is significant over a 4.3 mile period.

Again, thank you very much for publishing the route. We enjoyed taking it! No offense intended.

Rob

[PG Rob]

Rob, how much water did you end up drinking the day you did the canyon? Did you end up needing to filter any pothole water? If so, how was it?

We did not filter any Poe water. The water in there was black and dank!! The day of Poe, I prob drank 7L+. I threw some of it up though. I wasnt eating enough, and sweated out too much sodium. My body was rejecting the water because it was just diluting my currently low sodium level. It was a good learning experience. Especially in hot weather, it is important to eat and supplement your water with an electrolyte replacement which includes sodium.

[Slot Machine]

We did not filter any Poe water. The water in there was black and dank!! The day of Poe, I prob drank 7L+. I threw some of it up though. I wasnt eating enough, and sweated out too much sodium. My body was rejecting the water because it was just diluting my currently low sodium level. It was a good learning experience. Especially in hot weather, it is important to eat and supplement your water with an electrolyte replacement which includes sodium.

Sounds like my experience in Kolob. Not a fun lesson to learn.

I don't get hungry when I'm hiking, so I have to stop and force myself to eat. This last trip I carried shelled salted pstachios. I made an effort to eat as many as I could, and it helped a lot. After each canyon I downed a can of V8, then at night, lots of water and tons of salty food. Felt great every day.

[Iceaxe]

Rob, do you have an actual waypoint for the top of the shortcut? If so, how about posting it? I think others would find it useful.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Aj84737]

Sounds like my experience in Kolob. Not a fun lesson to learn.

I don't get hungry when I'm hiking, so I have to stop and force myself to eat. This last trip I carried shelled salted pstachios. I made an effort to eat as many as I could, and it helped a lot. After each canyon I downed a can of V8, then at night, lots of water and tons of salty food. Felt great every day.

Shelled salted pistachios are the best thing ever. It brings back very vivid memories of englestead.

[PG Rob]

Rob, do you have an actual waypoint for the top of the shortcut? If so, how about posting it? I think others would find it useful.

Yes... I will pull it off my GPS. The above is the route I created pre-trip. Finding your way down the reef is fairly straight forward once at the right point at the top. Also, a distinguishing feature to look for when you are crossing the plateau and are close is a sandstone ramp which takes you directly to the right point.

[Byron]

69274

This is our route, which is your route. Thank you so much for offering it. We were excited to try it out and see how it worked. It was 4.3 miles from the parking lot to the top of the reef which took us 2 hours. Again, thank you very much for publishing the route. We enjoyed taking it! No offense intended.

RobYEAH! Now that's what I'm talking about! No offense taken, Rob...at all. And thanks for not reading into my post as a nasty rebuke or anything like that...I was truly confused.

I read it as 8 plus miles to cross the plateau, and I thought "No, no no!". Also, when you said it wasn't really a shortcut...but it truly is! Have you ever come down through Halls Narrows (or the old road around it) from the airstrip route? My route is much shorter than that one...that was the whole point of putting it up. There's only three ways to Poe...the airstrip route (long!), my route or coming up from the lake (meaning a boat).

You crossed the plateau in 2 hours...that means you guys were humming along pretty well. I thought the route was a piece of cake...lots of flats with a few ups and downs...but then again, I'm used to big time elevation on a regular basis (daily) when I backpack for days on end...so I just see that plateau as a big park.

That ramp sure is a good marker for on the way back, eh? Ice...the parking spot is a big slickrock area right off the Notom road, right above the long switchbacks the come up out of Bullfrog Creek...you'll see a big man made ramp with guardrails north of the parking area. You can't miss it, it's easy to find...the only place that makes sense for the cross country trek, Rob found it easy enough.

Rob, nice job. If you ever come down the airstrip route, you'll know why I endorse this for those slots.

[Jolly Green]

Question here for all you Poe pros. I've seen Tom's list of canyons to do to adequately prepare for Heaps and Imlay in Zion, which made me wonder what else you would add to that list to prepare for Poe. I assume canyons with good pothole problems, just looking for some more specifics other than the Squeeze or Quandary. Anything out there that's close to the potshot throw you have to make?

[ratagonia]

Question here for all you Poe pros. I've seen Tom's list of canyons to do to adequately prepare for Heaps and Imlay in Zion, which made me wonder what else you would add to that list to prepare for Poe. I assume canyons with good pothole problems, just looking for some more specifics other than the Squeeze or Quandary. Anything out there that's close to the potshot throw you have to make?

Nope.

Tom

[Bootboy]

Question here for all you Poe pros. I've seen Tom's list of canyons to do to adequately prepare for Heaps and Imlay in Zion, which made me wonder what else you would add to that list to prepare for Poe. I assume canyons with good pothole problems, just looking for some more specifics other than the Squeeze or Quandary. Anything out there that's close to the potshot throw you have to make?

Lets practice at work. Stand on two railings, straddling the sidewalk, and throw full potshots over rows of cars/ambulances

[PG Rob]

Question here for all you Poe pros. I've seen Tom's list of canyons to do to adequately prepare for Heaps and Imlay in Zion, which made me wonder what else you would add to that list to prepare for Poe. I assume canyons with good pothole problems, just looking for some more specifics other than the Squeeze or Quandary. Anything out there that's close to the potshot throw you have to make?

About the throw:
The closest I have seen is the last major pothole in Woody. I borrowed this picture from Bob's trip report here:
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?69817-Woody-Canyon
The Woody throw is made from just below the bottom of the picture over the far ledge.
There are a couple differences:
The throw in Poe is further, more pinpoint and more awkward than the one in Woody.
If you cant make the throw in Poe, there is NO other option other than the climb over on loose bolts.
69286

About preparation for Poe:
The person who introduced me to canyoneering is Jeff Dredge. He is a very strong, intelligent, accomplished and experienced canyoneer. He was lucky enough to go on a Poe trip with Steve Ramras, RAM and I'm pretty sure Tom Jones, ratagonia a few years ago. In talking to him about my upcoming trip, he said he would not feel comfortable leading a group there, and strongly recommended I reconsider going. I am not sure what prepares you for Poe, but if you are not completely confident in your ability to do it, you are not prepared. Heaps, Imlay, Woody, No Kidding are a start. There are several others out there that would help too. The prior 4 are just more familiar to most. You will likely want to have multiple trips to canyons with this heft, need for natural anchors or problem solving under your belt to attempt Poe. Also, it is not enough for you alone to have the experience. You will need a strong and diverse team.

Happy Canyoneering and BE SAFE!!

Rob

[Jolly Green]

Lets practice at work. Stand on two railings, straddling the sidewalk, and throw full potshots over rows of cars/ambulances

I was thinking of straddling the bed and counter in room 1, over the charge nurse, off Dr King, and try to knock over a urinal bucket (empty of course).

[Jolly Green]

The closest I have seen is the last major pothole in Woody.

I noticed that spot in Bob's report. This is the kind of stuff that is helpful as Woody wouldn't be very high up on my list of canyons to do unless I have a reason to do it.


About preparation for Poe:
The person who introduced me to canyoneering is Jeff Dredge. He is a very strong, intelligent, accomplished and experienced canyoneer. He was lucky enough to go on a Poe trip with Steve Ramras, @RAM (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=183) and I'm pretty sure Tom Jones, @ratagonia (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=32) a few years ago. In talking to him about my upcoming trip, he said he would not feel comfortable leading a group there, and strongly recommended I reconsider going. I am not sure what prepares you for Poe, but if you are not completely confident in your ability to do it, you are not prepared. Heaps, Imlay, Woody, No Kidding are a start. There are several others out there that would help too. The prior 4 are just more familiar to most. You will likely want to have multiple trips to canyons with this heft, need for natural anchors or problem solving under your belt to attempt Poe. Also, it is not enough for you alone to have the experience. You will need a strong and diverse team.

Happy Canyoneering and BE SAFE!!

Rob

Thanks for the great response. I don't consider myself ready to do Poe right now, thus the question. While each canyon has its own fun and enjoyment, it's always nice to be able to focus on canyons that will help me improve in areas that I need more experience. Your expertise and comments are much appreciated. For now, I'm just hoping it doesn't rain on our full Imlay parade on Friday. If anyone else has any other canyon recommendations, please PM me or keep piling on the posts.

Bryce

[Slot Machine]

Here is a slightly better angle:

69289

[ratagonia]

Here is a slightly better angle:



Yeah, not really.

OK, it IS a better angle. The not really is that this is a big, tough throw. Nope.

Basically, a fairly good tosser like me can make the Woody toss first try, while I have absolutely zero chance on the Poe toss.

Someone's till gotta climb those ropes hand over hand. That's tough.

Tom :moses:

[TKPH]

Someone's till gotta climb those ropes hand over hand. That's tough.


Honest question: What's to keep you from wrapping prusiks around the ropes? The amount of time spent prusiking means the potshots aren't going to last?

[ratagonia]

Honest question: What's to keep you from wrapping prusiks around the ropes? The amount of time spent prusiking means the potshots aren't going to last?

I started to try that once, before our champ stepped up and 'volunteered' to hand over hand it. At that point the ropes are incredibly dirty, so prusiks (or Bachman knots, my preference) work very poorly. And yes, prusiks are slow slow slow and those potshots up there are creeping over the edge...

Tom

[PG Rob]

Honest question: What's to keep you from wrapping prusiks around the ropes? The amount of time spent prusiking means the potshots aren't going to last?

I would not want to ascend the pit on prusiks. Time on rope is not on your side. If you have a strong team together, it will or should include someone or two capable and willing to do the hand over hand climb.

[twotimer]

Bumping this for a friend...