Canyoneering Courses

[D.O.N.E.]

I see a big push for people to take canyoneering courses on this site, and understandably so! Seeing as there are plenty of folks on Bogley I thought it might be helpful to start a thread in regards to this. It seems like there is quite the spread in price. I've heard of some courses in Southern California that are less than a hundred bucks, and others here in Southern Utah that are several hundred bucks. I'm thinking if the curriculum is nearly the same I ought to just plan a trip to Cali and get to hang out with some long distance friends to boot! With the difference in price I'd end up spending the same.
Would any of you recommend any particular course? If so post some details up. I found some similar threads but they were usually limited to the OPs locale - I'm not concerned about locale I want to keep that open so other folks will find this useful as well.

[D.O.N.E.]

Oh and any particular instructors you'd recommend? An instructor can make a big difference even with exactly the same curriculum.

[Kuya]

I received some training from 12 Finger Outdoor Adventure. I was under the cloak of the BSA though. I thought it was very good.

Additionally, I took a 3 day course from North Wash Outfitters and LOVED it! Jared is very knowledgeable and holds an excellent course. I'm hoping I can take his Canyon Rescue course some time in the near future.

[D.O.N.E.]

Thanks Kuya, exactly what I was looking for!

[moab mark]

There are several companies in Springdale that teach courses. I would recommend Zion Adventure in Springdale. I think Hank is teaching there? Rich Carlson of the ACA is in Cedar City. They both can tie a clove hitch with the best of them.

[Canyonater]

I took a 2 day with Rich Carlson when he came to California early this year. The price was VERY reasonable, less than half of what is normally charged around here. Plus the fact that we had only 6 students we covered an immense amount of information and hands on. Covered knots, bends, prussiks, anchor building (dynamic also), meat anchoring, static block, releasable block, re-directs, Stone Knot, partner assisting techniques, dual rappels, rappelling with an injured person, converting static to releasable, sequencing, that's off the top of my head. I left that training completely prepared to tackle easy to intermediate canyons. I've done alot of research learing before taking the class so it really helped me to absorb all he was throwing at the group. Some classes are 3 days but the problem is they book WAY too many people so lots of time is spent standing around and not much more than the very basics get covered...

[maarten.1975]

I can give you my experience, basically it is how 'it all started for me' not even that long ago. Expanding my hiking explorations with the canyoneering heavens...

I took a 1-day course at ZAC in Springdale. I had a 'personal' instructor, which was quite expensive (there were no other people for a course that day and I wanted to have my course), however it was superb and more then worth it! Mr. Hank Moon was my instructor (I don't know whether he still works there), and not only did he teach me how to do canyoneering, he learned me how to start 'thinking canyoneering'. Further course contents were mainly the basics, what else can you expect on a 1 day course. I started from total newbie level (at the course it was the second time I wore a harness, after having tried it once when buying it) and changed into a canyoneering-addict :naughty: who was ready to start exploring canyons. Step by step of course....

The skills of the instructor are most important I think. Can he pass on his knowledge and insights onto you...
I'm still thankfull for everything I learned that day!

[Spidey]

Feel free to P.M. me I know a guy.

[Bootboy]

Courses are for pussies... Haha!

[D.O.N.E.]

maarten.1975 I agree on instructors being important! Knowing is one thing, teaching is another. Thanks everyone for the instructor references!

[Brit Beermonster]

I did a course with ZAC in Springdale, half a day for ~$260 because of recommendations on Bogley. Went from no experience to feeling confident about canyoneering, thanks to Bailey. She was very thorough, did several hours of knots, anchors etc then a few raps to put it all into practice.

Have now done Subway, Keyhole and Mystery with no probs. Soooo glad I had good instruction though.

[Mountaineer]

Courses are for pussies... Haha!

Ha, OK, well... some weren't born as a surprise to the audience with a tied figure eight in the umbilical cord.

Each course/company gives a unique perspective and specific focus. The reason you are there is to have the opportunity to practice and get critiqued in a safe environment. Trying to figure out how to do something on your own and then being told how to do it better has a lot of value. Canyons and Crags and Northwash Outfitters are excellent. I've been to both and highly recommend them. Tom and many others have a lot of tech tips freely posted out there that you can refer to.

However, going out with those who have experience is the most critical part. Do that until you feel confident going out on your own.

[ratagonia]

Courses are for pussies... Haha!

after all, what could possibly go wrong... :facepalm1:

[D.O.N.E.]

Mountaineer if I could double-like your post I would!

I have an excellent group of locals that have been very kind about having me go out with them. I really feel like I hit the lottery with these folks and I'm making a new group of friends - Bonus!! The more I learn the more assured I feel that this group is experienced and knowledgeable. It's hard to determine that when you first start out.
To say I lurk on the how-to's on Bogley, Tom's site, You-tube and books like On Rope are total understatements. I creep every chance I get ;)

[Canyonater]

I did a course with ZAC in Springdale, half a day for ~$260 because of recommendations on Bogley. Went from no experience to feeling confident about canyoneering, thanks to Bailey. She was very thorough, did several hours of knots, anchors etc then a few raps to put it all into practice.

Have now done Subway, Keyhole and Mystery with no probs. Soooo glad I had good instruction though.


OUCH! $260? I really hope you were the only student!

[Iceaxe]

OUCH! $260? I really hope you were the only student!

As a business owner I consider $260 a reasonable price. That works out to about $65 per hour. Try getting any professional work done at that price and you know it's a very fair price. What did you pay an hour last time you had a mechanic work on you car?

Folks need to understand after paying the guide to teach, paying insurance, paying state and federal taxes, paying license fees and all the other bullshit a business owner is forced to fund, that $65 per hour is a very slim profit margin. If you want professional instruction you have to pay for it.

YMMV




Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Bootboy]

after all, what could possibly go wrong... :facepalm1:
live fast and take chances...

Of course I'm kidding. I was fortunate enough to have good mentors and teachers as well as an extensive climbing background. That plus a lot of reading and a little trial and error. I never had to pony up for a course. But for people who lack the aforementioned, A class is a great way to go to get a a foundation for this activity. I would encourage anyone seeking to get into canyoneering to do it the smart and safe way: take a course. It seems that having a clue WTF you're doing tends to correlate with fewer accidents.

[Canyonater]

As a business owner I consider $260 a reasonable price. That works out to about $65 per hour. Try getting any professional work done at that price and you know it's a very fair price. What did you pay an hour last time you had a mechanic work on you car?

Folks need to understand after paying the guide to teach, paying insurance, paying state and federal taxes, paying license fees and all the other bullshit a business owner is forced to fund, that $65 per hour is a very slim profit margin. If you want professional instruction you have to pay for it.

YMMV




Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Like I said.....if he was the only student it might be worth it...but even then,, with only 1 student there is only so much you can cover in a few hours....

[dlofting]

$260 is about what I paid for tickets to two plays at the Shakespeare Festival in Cedar City for my wife and myself.....about 4 hours entertainment if you break it down that way. Well worth it IMO, but not everyone's "cup of tea".

[Brit Beermonster]

Yes $260 was for 1 on 1 and in hindsight, I would pay it again - worth every penny.

[ratagonia]

live fast and take chances...

Of course I'm kidding. I was fortunate enough to have good mentors and teachers as well as an extensive climbing background. That plus a lot of reading and a little trial and error. I never had to pony up for a course. But for people who lack the aforementioned, A class is a great way to go to get a a foundation for this activity. I would encourage anyone seeking to get into canyoneering to do it the smart and safe way: take a course. It seems that having a clue WTF you're doing tends to correlate with fewer accidents.

Good to hear you were being sarcastic...

For myself, I came to canyoneering with 25 years of climbing experience, including 2 trips up El Capitan and thousands of rock routes. Yes, I tried figuring it out for myself. But my climbing friend Charly Oliver said he took a course from some DUDE and learned a TON! I was shocked - Charly was/is a super-solid climber, how could some dude teach experienced climbers like us anything new about ropework.

Rich Carlson offered me a free course, and I took it, and I learned a TON! BEST money I ever didn't spend!

Oh, I did pay for the next course. It was good too.

So I don't care how arrogant a legend-in-your-own-mind you are - after all, who can top me in that category? - training is very good for your skills and craft. And ultimately, for your safety and the safety of those around you.

Tom

[hank moon]

So I don't care how arrogant a legend-in-your-own-mind you are - after all, who can top me in that category? - training is very good for your skills and craft. And ultimately, for your safety and the safety of those around you.

Hail yeah, L'Empereur! :hail2thechief: