Starting to regret going tubeless...

[ahansen60]

I'm getting really tired of the routine it takes to keep my tires trail ready. Every couple months i have to put new Stan's Sealant in, every ride I have to top off the pressure on my tries, have had to replace the rim tape a couple times now because of leaks, and have had multiple flats on the trail.
Been reminiscing a lot lately of the days when I had tires with heavy duty tubes and slime. I could go months without having to top off the pressure, and could go years (seriously) without a flat. Tubed tires are sounding really good to me again!

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[Bootboy]

Every time I go through the effort to get set up tubeless, I always end up with a tube in there by the end of the season. It's great when it works, but I don't bet the farm on it. I've pinch flatted through tubeless tires before. It's not fail safe. I always carry a spare tube and patch kit.

[Sombeech]

The extra thick tubes with slime and schrader valves have been serving me well. I even drilled out my presta valved rims so I can keep it old skool. :cool2:

[Iceaxe]

I use slime in my pesta valve tubes. It has served me well for a long time.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[accadacca]

Schrader with tube liners (Mr. Tuffys) for me.

[ahansen60]

The guys at the shop said I'd absolutely love the lightweight feel of a tubeless setup. Can't really say I notice a difference. Anybody else noticed any difference?

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[Sombeech]

The problem when anybody raves about something being lighter, you pack a stick of beef jerky in your pack and you've cancelled out a couple hundred dollar lightweight part on your bike.

It's all just mental. Some riders keep a mental tally of all the grams they're saving and it gives them more confidence. These are the kind of extreme 100 lb skinny guys that brag about how easy it is to ascend a mountain because their spandex weighs just a few grams.

I mean you eat a burrito that day and it's like the olympic training dream has ended.

Rather than the pounds and grams something weighs, you'll be much happier in the long run measuring things by strength and endurance. The heavier, more durable stuff is usually less expensive. Not cool, but better for you :cool2:

[DOSS]

I agree with Beech.. if you are not at 100% optimal weight then shaving some oz off your bike doesn't do you a lot of good, especially if you keep flatting out.. shave a pound off your butt and put tubes back in you won't notice a difference :)

[neilether]

I'm getting really tired of the routine it takes to keep my tires trail ready. Every couple months i have to put new Stan's Sealant in, every ride I have to top off the pressure on my tries, have had to replace the rim tape a couple times now because of leaks, and have had multiple flats on the trail.
Been reminiscing a lot lately of the days when I had tires with heavy duty tubes and slime. I could go months without having to top off the pressure, and could go years (seriously) without a flat. Tubed tires are sounding really good to me again!

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I have had the exact opposite experience over the last 4 years since I have gone tubeless. In that span I have only one flat and it was on a very old tire where the bead actually separated from the casing. My friends have had similar experiences and we will never go back to tubes. Give us more information on your exact setup. Type of rims, tires, conversion method, etc. Maybe that way we can help diagnose the problem.

[neilether]

The guys at the shop said I'd absolutely love the lightweight feel of a tubeless setup. Can't really say I notice a difference. Anybody else noticed any difference?

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The problem when anybody raves about something being lighter, you pack a stick of beef jerky in your pack and you've cancelled out a couple hundred dollar lightweight part on your bike.

It's all just mental. Some riders keep a mental tally of all the grams they're saving and it gives them more confidence. These are the kind of extreme 100 lb skinny guys that brag about how easy it is to ascend a mountain because their spandex weighs just a few grams.

I mean you eat a burrito that day and it's like the olympic training dream has ended.

Rather than the pounds and grams something weighs, you'll be much happier in the long run measuring things by strength and endurance. The heavier, more durable stuff is usually less expensive. Not cool, but better for you :cool2:


I agree with Beech.. if you are not at 100% optimal weight then shaving some oz off your bike doesn't do you a lot of good, especially if you keep flatting out.. shave a pound off your butt and put tubes back in you won't notice a difference :)

I agree that the weight difference is a complete non-issue. If you are running a true UST (Universal System for Tubeless) setup, then sealant isn't required. However, the rubber is thicker to make the tires airtight, thus, more weight. Plus, with no sealant there is no flat protection against a puncture.

If you are running lightweight racing tires and set them up tubeless, there may be a very slight weight savings, but they are going to be so thin that they will be unreliable. Most tire manufacturers make a happy medium between those extremes. A tire that requires sealant to be run tubeless, but isn't super beefy like the true UST tires.

Tubeless, for me, is not about weight savings but about ride quality and flat protection. With tubeless you can run much lower tire pressure and not worry nearly as much about getting pinch flats. Lower pressure is hugely beneficial in terms of ride quality and traction both uphill and downhill. With lower pressure, I have been able to climb loose steep pitches that I never could before because of the added traction. It also instills more downhill confidence through chunky rock sections. The flat protection is an added bonus. I just pulled off a bald rear tire last night and I counted 7 little booger spots where the sealant had done its job.



Every time I go through the effort to get set up tubeless, I always end up with a tube in there by the end of the season. It's great when it works, but I don't bet the farm on it. I've pinch flatted through tubeless tires before. It's not fail safe. I always carry a spare tube and patch kit.

Of course it's not fail safe. Nothing is. I always carry a spare tube and patch kit as well, but maybe that's just the boy scout in me. In my core group of 6 riders in Logan there have only been 3 flats this entire year. All of those flats were from the two guys who refuse to go tubeless.

[tallsteve]

I’m totally with Neil on this one. I’m curious as to whether you are running a true UST or tubeless ready setup or ghetto? I had reoccurring issues with ghetto tubeless so that would make sense. Since switching to a true tubeless setup 3 years ago I have had ZERO flat issues. Unlike Neil, I never even carry a spare tube with me anymore unless I’m in Moab or somewhere really remote. Even after many trips to Moab / St. George, I still haven’t had a flat or blown tire. BTW, many tire / rim manufacturers are tagging their products as ‘Tubeless Ready’ instead of UST so they don’t have to pay Mavic a royalty for using the UST moniker. Heck, right now I’m running a weenie-weight Bontrager 29-1 Team tire up front and a slightly less weenie-weight Bontrager 29-2 Expert tire on the rear. Since May, and hundreds of miles, I have had no issues with either and neither one is marked as tubeless ready (I don’t think many 29” tires are anymore). I do run them with Stans. Yes, I refill a couple of times a summer but, with removable valve core stems and a Stans refill syringe, it takes what, 1 minute per tire? I don’t know about you but I can’t change out a tube in less than 1 minute. Yes, I also check the PSI before every ride. I usually have to pump 2-3 psi back in. Again, I don’t see the big deal in having to do this. It takes 30 seconds or so. The advantages for me far outweigh any disadvantages. I weigh 210lbs and run, with tubeless, 23psi in front and 25psi in back. With the lower psi I climb better, corner better and descend better, plus I have confidence knowing I’m not going to flat. I’m able to demo quite a few bikes and the ones setup with tubes feel sluggish to me. Now, after all that, ride whatever you’re comfortable with and worked for you. Tubeless has worked very well for me so I’ll stick with it.

[sixstringsteve]

I can definitely feel the difference between a lighter tire vs a heavier tire, and I can feel that a tubeless setup conforms to the ground a bit better, but the benefits aren't worth it to me. I run regular tubes, and I haven't had a flat on the mountain in 5 years. Stay on the trail, maintain adequate pressure, and you shouldn't have many flats. I don't get stickers on the mountains, it's the paved Jordan River Parkway style trails that kill my tires.

[Sombeech]

Yeah if you can figure out the tubeless setup that works for you, go for it. But I would never go with a certain component because it weighs less. The traction at lower PSI is a benefit, and there are so many other factors to climbing the loose stuff too.

I haven't changed my tube for a few years now, and I may have only had 1 flat in those years, riding every week when there's no snow.

Sometimes on the chains, the higher priced XTR chain weighs less and is more expensive just because it has less material - but is weaker. It might be good for a race or two if you are totally fine tuned on your body weight, pack weight, and everything else on your bike. But if you skip the gym for a week and your cardio is just a bit off, that weight savings is offset. Plus, you end up with a chain that doesn't last as long now.

Then again I'm a bit lazy when it comes to maintenance. I've been meaning to get a new chain for a year, I'm riding with a quick repair link with no spare, and I just can't get around to it. But every week we're riding 10+ miles and it's holding up just fine.

Now now, don't mention how the old chain starts to wear down the gear teeth, I've been there before and had to replace a gear for $10. I'm not there yet :mrgreen:

I prefer the heavier tires with a bottle of slime split between both tubes. I feel more stable as I'm rounding the corners at higher speeds. But it's just personal preference. I like my Kona even though it's getting old, and the new XC bikes are lighter and sure go up the hill faster. But I prefer going downhill on my heavier bike.

Plus, once everybody cruises up on their lighter bike, they all joke about taking mine on the downhill because it's less squirrelly :afro:

[neilether]

I started off with a Shimano UST wheelset with UST tires. Bulletproof! I am now using Stan's rims. The reason for the switch is that with the Stan's rims it makes it very easy to use almost any tire. UST, tubeless ready, or even just a regular tire. They all work very well.

I've never tried the ghetto setup, but a buddy swears by Gorilla Tape conversion and hasn't had any issues.

[neilether]

I weigh 210lbs and run, with tubeless, 23psi in front and 25psi in back. With the lower psi I climb better, corner better and descend better, plus I have confidence knowing I’m not going to flat.

I'm not nearly as tall as Steve, but must be quite a bit wider as I am also 210 lbs. I run big, high volume 2.4 tires front and rear on my bike. With the tubeless setup and high volume tires, I run just over ~23psi front and rear. Love it! Pre-tubeless I was running 2.1 tires on my bikes and I had to put at least 35-40 psi in them to prevent pinch flats. With that high pressure I felt like I was bouncing all over the place on the trails.

[ahansen60]

I have figured a couple things out that may have contributed to my frustrations. First of all, like neilether just mentioned, I learned that gorilla tape is much better than standard rim tape and have replaced both my rims with that. Second, I realized after doing the setup myself instead of having the shop do it, that they weren't putting the recommended amount of Stan's in it. Got the recommended amount in it now. So hopefully after those changes it should give me less headaches. Still think my old tubed setup was less maintenance though. :) Oh, and yes my setup is 100% UST.

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[mxerhale]

I'll chime in that I'm on Neil and Steve's wagon. Since I went tubeless I've had one flat (Snow Basin, the rock capitol of the world!) on my old 26" Titus and since getting the Niner I have had zero on the trail. I run a real UST WTB tire up front and a tube style Small Block 8 on the back and I can run about 10 lbs. less air in the tires when they're tubeless. Much more comfortable and a little more traction going up and down and a whole lot less of the ping pong feeling bombing the downhills.

[neilether]

.....Oh, and yes my setup is 100% UST.

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Something doesn't quite add up here. A true UST rim doesn't have any spoke holes on the inside of the rim and thus, doesn't need any rim tape. What brand of rims are you using? Which tires?

[neilether]

So I had some awesome validation on this topic last night. I got a new rear tire and tried to mount it on the rim Sunday evening. I don't have an air compressor and I could not for the life of me get the beads to seat tubeless with my floor pump. So, I threw a tube in and left it at 55psi to loosen up the new tire. I wasn't planning on riding until later in the week so I just left it overnight. I got a call yesterday evening to go for a night ride. I didn't have time to take out the tube and attempt to seat it, so I just rode with the tube in there. I dropped the pressure to 40psi and went. We got to the top of the climb and I had been feeling the back end pinball around a bit on the climb, so I decided to let a few puffs of air out of the tire for the descent. I'm pretty sure you know where this story is going. I got within a mile of the car when I felt the back end squirming around. Sure 'nuff. FLAT TIRE!

Dear Tubes,

I hate you.

love,

-Neil-

[tallsteve]

The 'pinball-ing', 'pogo-ing', bouncing off everything is something I surely don't miss. Lower psi equals less bounce as the tires stay in contact with the ground better which also equals more control downhill and greater pedaling efficiency uphill.

[Deathcricket]

Ha! thought it was just me. I pretty much hate my tubeless and have just been putting tubes in them recently. All my problems have mysteriously vanished. :)

[Sombeech]

Riding last night, 8 bikes. 3 tubeless, 5 tubes.

3 tubeless flats, 0 tube flats.

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[ahansen60]

Riding last night, 8 bikes. 3 tubeless, 5 tubes.

3 tubeless flats, 0 tube flats.

Wow that says something right there. Crazy.

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[neilether]

Wow that says something right there. Crazy.

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The only thing it really says, is that you'll never take out all the variables to get a definitive answer on what is better. I can tell you accurately that my personal situation over the last 4 years is exactly the opposite of Beech's recent adventure. The few tubeless flats that I have seen on the trail have been due to poorly executed "ghetto" setups, and people not willing to take the 5 minutes every 2 months to check that there is still liquid sealant sloshing around in their tires.

There's also those catastrophic flats that you can't really count. Major sidewall tears and huge punctures shouldn't count in your statistics either way......

[Sombeech]

These tubeless flats occurred on 3 rental bikes from the Bike Shop, rented that day.

[RedSpecialized]

Another victim of tubeless. I haven't had the bike very long, bought it used on ksl. Didn't know it had tubeless went for a ride yesterday. Just when I'm at the top of the trail finished pedaling ready for the down hill part. I about eat it when my front tire starts going crazy wobbly. Tired completely flat and bead broken. No problem I think to myself, I have patches and a pump. So I take the tire off and to my surprise, no tube. I have never ran tubeless so I have no clue what I'm doing. My friend and I try and reset set the bead with a trail pump which we quickly discovered are useless for these. So now I'm stuck walking all the way back to the car. At least I got a good pedal in....? So I'll admit I'm totally clueless to this tubeless thing, but I'm not seeing any real advantage to them....? Unless your into "hike a bike". Maybe I'm missing something? It seems like to me if you ever get a flat on the trail the only way out is to learn how to ride on one tire or hoof it. And for me neither of those options are appealing.



Sent from my SPH-L900

[REDFOX]

I found some good information on Utahmountainbiking.com about tubeless and the maintenance required for them to function properly. I don't enjoy tinkering with my bike, so I will stay with tubes and slime. I have never had to walk my bike back to the car and for the past 8 years I haven't even carried a spare tube.

[Sombeech]

Most of the time tubeless users will talk about how they had a flat with the tube they had to hurry and put in - skip over the point that the reason they had to use the temporary tube that failed in the first place is because their tubeless went flat :haha:

[RedSpecialized]

So is there a way to fix tubeless on the trail? Now that I have them I would like to know.

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[Iceaxe]

So is there a way to fix tubeless on the trail? Now that I have them I would like to know.

There is a very simple method of fixing tubeless on the trail, you simply put a tube in.

Anyone riding tubes or tubeless that doesn't carry a spare tube is just begging for a nice long hike-a-bike.



Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[ahansen60]

I agree you should always carry a spare tube with, and it is probably the quickest way to fix it enough to get back to the trailhead. But you could bring a little bit of stan's sealant and a co2 pump in your backpack and fix most flats that way as well. Of course it depends what kind of flat and how severe it is though.

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[Jow]

Tubeless fanboy here to offer you some hope!! It really sounds like your tubeless is not set up correctly. I rarely refill my sealant, and it never leaks. I just pop off the wheel and give it a shake now and again to make sure it's good (Takes 10 seconds). When it's empty, don't unseat the bead to refill - just pop out the core of the valve and squeeze some sealant through. I use a 2 oz bottle of Stans that has a nice pointy nozzle and just refill it constantly for this job. This saves quite a bit of time!

Once everything is seated correctly it shouldn't be mandatory to check your PSI every ride. I usually do it anyway because I run my PSI really low (21/23), I wouldn't go below that. Check Stan's website for ideal PSI/weight, but until you get these problems sorted out I'd stick to the 26-28 range.

I haven't had a flat in three years. I tore the sidewall of a cheap, worn non-UST tire once. That's really it. With a proper tubeless setup you can be worry free, run lower PSI, have better efficiency and most of all... have more fun! Good luck.


Disclaimer: I'm running UST tires and UST rims. I can't speak for non-UST conversions - I know a few folks that have had issues trying to convert standard rims to tubeless.

[neilether]

These tubeless flats occurred on 3 rental bikes from the Bike Shop, rented that day.
Sounds to me like you should find a new bike shop.....:haha:


There is a very simple method of fixing tubeless on the trail, you simply put a tube in.

Anyone riding tubes or tubeless that doesn't carry a spare tube is just begging for a nice long hike-a-bike.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
+1


Sounds like your tubeless is not set up correctly. I rarely refill my sealant, and it never leaks. I just pop off the tire and give it a shake now and again to make sure it's good (Takes 10 seconds). When it's empty, don't unseat the bead to refill - just pop out the core of the valve and squeeze some sealant through. I use a 2 oz bottle of Stans that has a nice pointy nozzle and just refill it constantly for this job. This saves quite a bit of time!

I haven't had a flat in three years. I tore the sidewall of a cheap, worn non-UST tire once. That's really it. With a proper tubeless setup you can be worry free, run lower PSI, have better efficiency and most of all... have more fun! Good luck.


Disclaimer: I'm running UST tires and UST rims. I can't speak for non-UST conversions - I know a few folks that have had issues trying to convert standard rims to tubeless.

Can I get an "AMEN!"


So is there a way to fix tubeless on the trail? Now that I have them I would like to know.

Sent from my SPH-L900

As has been said, the easiest is to just put a tube in and off you go. If you have a CO2 cartridge, you can reseat the bead on the trail. If the puncture was big enough that the sealant wouldn't seal it up, you can actually patch the inside of the tire itself with a regular patch kit. In a nod to the tubeless haters, it can be more annoying to try to reseat the bead trailside then to just put a tube in to finish the ride.

[neilether]

Here's a link to an interesting article discussing both the pros and cons of going tubeless. Full disclosure, the author is definitely biased toward tubeless, but he does offer up some good counterpoints.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/angryasian-ditch-the-tubes-37901/

[Sombeech]

I guess i don't see how tubeless can resist punctures better than the tube setup.

Take the goat head sticker. Tube setup you have to punch through the tire and then the tube. Tubeless you only have the tire. Is the tubeless really resisting the puncture better? If it's the sealant that fills the hole, the tire really didn't stop anything. Both setups will have sealant inside.

For me, i find it odd when a tubeless rider will get a flat, put a tube in, get another flat on the tube and then only complain about tubes and how bad of a setup they are because they just got a flat with the tube.

I'm riding every week on Rocky Ass trails and damn, we are pounding those trails. I probably haven't topped off my tubes for a good two months, maybe more. Then again I'm riding with good old Schrader valves too and haven't even thought about clamping the pump on the valve. Come to think of it, maybe it's the new technology that is becoming more temperamental like Presta valves, tubeless, and clipless pedals. Good intentions, but when you just need to ride and not dink around with the hardware, the old school stuff holds up better. Even if it takes ten seconds to maintain something, my setup takes zero seconds and it's not failing the whole season.

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[tallsteve]

...maybe it's the new technology that is becoming more temperamental like Presta valves, tubeless, and clipless pedals. Good intentions, but when you just need to ride and not dink around with the hardware, the old school stuff holds up better.

Funny, I use ALL the 'newer' school stuff you mention and haven't had any of them fail this season...or last season, or the season before that, or the season before that, or the season before that, etc. I'm also riding rocky, rugged trails 3-4 times a week. Maybe failures are more about the user?
I guess when it comes down to it, ride what you like, what's worked for you and what you're comfortable with.

[neilether]

I guess i don't see how tubeless can resist punctures better than the tube setup.

Take the goat head sticker. Tube setup you have to punch through the tire and then the tube. Tubeless you only have the tire. Is the tubeless really resisting the puncture better? If it's the sealant that fills the hole, the tire really didn't stop anything. Both setups will have sealant inside.

To your point, I don't think that a tubeless setup "resists" punctures any better than a standard setup. It's all about what happens after the puncture occurs. If you are running slime tubes, this benefit is likely a wash. However, the drawback to slime tubes is that they are HEAVY. Noticeably so when you are riding. Further, rotating weight (ie. tires, tubes, wheels, etc..) is the worst kind of weight you can add to your bike.


For me, i find it odd when a tubeless rider will get a flat, put a tube in, get another flat on the tube and then only complain about tubes and how bad of a setup they are because they just got a flat with the tube. I personally have never run into this on the trails, but i'm sure it occurs.

I am genuinely curious as to how much air pressure you have in your tires. Riding the rocky terrain you do, with a tubed setup, I'm surprised that you don't get pinch flats. Unless you keep you tire pressure well north of 40 psi. To reiterate, MY reason to ride tubeless is that I can run 20-25 psi in my tires without constantly getting pinch flats. This improves rolling resistance, comfort, ability to conform to the trail, and for me vastly improves my riding experience.

Bottom line, agree to disagree. We really should have the czar of Ogden mountain biking MtnBkr chime in on this subject. He will edumucate all of us.

Let's go for a ride sometime.

[Jow]

This thread is spending too much time talking about how bad tubeless is instead of working to achieve proper tubeless setups that actually operate correctly...

(Just sayin')

Let me know when we are back on track and I'll be more than willing to offer more suggestions to help everyone struggling with tubeless.

[Bootboy]

I ride tubeless with stan's and have found it to be very reliable. An extra squirt of sealant every month and you're good to go. at the end of every season, I either replace or clean out my tires as a matter of maintenance. Pretty simple really. There have been a few occasions where I've been frustrated buy it, but that's easily (although somewhat messy) remedied with one of the two tubes I always carry and RARELY USE.

The end

[Iceaxe]

I'm going to give tubeless a try. The biggest reason I haven't yet is I don't have an air compressor in my garage. Guess it's time to buy one. So any suggestions? What do all you tubeless guys do to inflate your tubeless tires? An know a good deal on a compressor?

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[DOSS]

I'm going to give tubeless a try. The biggest reason I haven't yet is I don't have an air compressor in my garage. Guess it's time to buy one. So any suggestions? What do all you tubeless guys do to inflate your tubeless tires? An know a good deal on a compressor?

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

If all you are doing is airing tires I would go with something like this http://www.amazon.com/Campbell-Hausfeld-FP209499-3-Gallon-Compressor/dp/B002O15NRS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1377784187&sr=8-2&keywords=air+compressor

oddly all this talk of tubless is making me want to give them a try.. picked up a roll of gorrilla tape yesterday and a bottle or Stans :)... Oh and I suck on the Mt bike but corner canyon is calling me :)

[neilether]

I'm going to give tubeless a try. The biggest reason I haven't yet is I don't have an air compressor in my garage. Guess it's time to buy one. So any suggestions? What do all you tubeless guys do to inflate your tubeless tires? An know a good deal on a compressor?

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

:2thumbs: The first time trying to set up tubeless is where you are more likely to get frustrated. Fight through it until you figure out the technique.

What rims/tires are you going to use?

Anyway, I have had reasonable success just using a floor pump. This will totally depend on the rim/tire combination. And I mean your specific items. It doesn't work to assume that since I run a Continental Mountain King tire (for example) and you use the same one that you will be able to seat it with a floor pump. Manufacturing variance can be important during this step.

0. Make sure that you have some tape to seal the spoke holes in the center of the rim. If I recall, you have Stan's rims. A quick glance should reveal some yellow rim tape in the bottom of the rim bed. If so, proceed.
1. Put on one complete bead of the tire like you normally would. Optional: it can help greatly to put some soap suds all along each of the beads prior to mounting. Don't be shy.
2. Make sure the tubeless valve stem is snug (don't have to kill the compression nut here)
3. Seat the other bead (don't worry about sealant yet)
4. Attempt to pump up tire with floor pump using your super rapid pumping skeels. It helps to remove the valve core prior to this step for increased airflow into the tube. If it works, pump it to ~50 psi. The beads will lock in place with a very loud, kind of scary, popping noise. That is a good noise. If the floor pump doesn't work, CO2 can be used. If that doesn't work, a compressor may be needed. I just have a cheap-o one from Harbor Freight. I use the little blower nozzle that just barely fits inside the Presta valve with the valve core removed.
5. Now that both beads are locked into place, remove the pump and all the air will flow out of the open valve stem.
6. Take your handy dandy little Stans 2 oz refill bottle and squeeze it into the open valve. Alternatively, you can unseat one of the beads and pour the sealant directly into the open tire. For a 29er wheel, depending on what tires you will be using and what volume they are, I would use 6 oz of Stans to start with. This should be sufficient to seal the side walls and have some leftover for puncture sealing.
7. Re insert the valve core
8. Pump it back up to ~50psi.
9. grab the wheel, hold it vertically in front of you and shake side to side to slosh the sealant up and down the entire tire. Rotate the wheel 30 degree or so and repeat until you gotten all the way around the tire.
10. Lay the wheel horizontally on one side (over a bucket or something so it's level) and let it sit for for a few minutes. Flip it over and let the other side sit for a few minutes.
11. Check the tire in a few hours to see if it is holding air. There is a decent chance it will be losing a significant amount. Add another 2 oz of stans at that point and repeat the sloshing process. (this is only needed the very first time you mount up brand new tires. After that, you won't have to do it again until you buy new tires.)
12. Voila.

The haters will say, "OM-Holy-G" that is 12 steps. That's so much worse than putting a tube in." I won't argue that the first time takes longer, but it's the difference between 7 minutes and 20 minutes. Once you get the technique down and the tires sealed, it's not a big deal.

Let me know if you have any questions. This is the technique recommended by Stans, @ notubes.com . There is a lot more information and videos on their site about how to do this.

[Iceaxe]

I have Stan rims with Continental XC King tires. There is no tape in my rims.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[tallsteve]

I set mine up pretty much like Neil does. I usually get 2 loud popping noises per tire (in the garage it sounds like a .22 going off). They'll 'pop' when the psi in the tire hits about 40. If you don't get the popping noise, the tire isn't seated and you'll lose air quickly. I leave my tires at about 50 psi overnight, or until I ride next, then deflate to the pressure you want to ride at.
I have better luck seating brand new tires if I put an inflated tube in the tire overnight (doesn't need to be mounted to a rim) to shape them. Laying them on your driveway in full sun when it's hot also helps.
I try NOT to use soapy water if I can get away with it. I've seen too much soapy water react with the Stan's sealant, creating a big ball of hardened latex in the tire. If you do have to use the soap solution, only coat the bead/rim edge with the foamy bubbles.

[neilether]

I have Stan rims with Continental XC King tires. There is no tape in my rims.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

You will need to get a roll of Stans yellow tape, or a roll of Gorilla tape to seal off the spoke holes from the inside. I know the Stans tape is very easy. I have heard good things about Gorilla Tape but have never used it. Watch the youtube videos on their site, they help a lot.


I try NOT to use soapy water if I can get away with it. I've seen too much soapy water react with the Stan's sealant, creating a big ball of hardened latex in the tire. If you do have to use the soap solution, only coat the bead/rim edge with the foamy bubbles.

I should have clarified, I actually don't use soap either to lubricate the beads. Mainly because I am too lazy to do it and haven't felt the need. I didn't think about it reacting with the Stans; good point. I have heard that if you are having particular trouble getting the bead to seat properly, the soapy suds can help but I have never been forced to do it yet.

[neilether]

Proper Installation of the Rim Tape

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2VgxLiWno8

Tire installation/sealing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqPMxL0LmX0

[nelsonccc]

Last month when riding Navajo Loop I watched as my buddy got a flat in his tubeless (not all the way flat, just real low). We looked and there was a huge gash down one side. Probably 2" long, looked like a root or stick had gone in and then tore out. We jiggled it and moved it to the bottom and watched as the sealant sealed up the hole. Pumped some air in and it was golden. That tire held air the reast of the weekdn with Bunker descent and a blown out (rain/flash flood ruined) Thunder mtn ride. Pretty impressive. I run tubes at 38-40PSI and have never had an issue with pinch flats. Occasionally i get flats from cactus or stickers but I always have a spare tube.

[RedSpecialized]

So I decided to give this tubeless a go for reals since I already had the set up for it on new bike. I purchased orange seal (they say it is better than Stan's) they claim orange seal doesn't dry out. Took my current tubeless tire off and spent 20 min. cleaning all the old Stan's crap off the tire so it would seat properly. Dumped about 4oz of sealant in the tire and was very careful mounting the tire to not spill the sealant out. Then I gave the tire a quick shot with the air compressor. The tire seemed to not be mounted good because there was bubbles coming out all along the bead. So I gave it another wick shot of air from the compressor. I can't believe what happened next. The tire blew of the rim. Scared the crap right out of me. Sounded like some c4 went off. My next door neighbor runs over and thinks I was shot and was going to find me dead. My ears are ringing so loud I can't hear anything. I have orange goo all over me and my garage. My $67 dollar tire is ruined and come to find out later it bent my rim. So this experiment trying to go tubeless ended up costing me about $100. After replacing the tire and getting my rim trued and buying the sealant. Tubes for me from now on. I do think I will put some of that sealant junk in my tubes though. Should keep me from getting flats.


Sent from my SPH-L900

[Iceaxe]

Hmmm... on second thought maybe I'll just leave my tubes in. They are never a problem.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Sombeech]

Hmmm... on second thought maybe I'll just leave my tubes in. They are never a problem.


THIS^^^

It's cool if you want to experiment, and if tubeless works for you, awesome. But man I just can't bring myself to go tubeless. Then again I rarely even lube my chain or wash my bike. I like to take my bike down, hop on and ride with ZERO prep, and hang it back up without even the slightest notion of topping off the air pressure.

My tube valves haven't touched the nozzle of a pump for literally months and I'm riding every week.

[neilether]

So I decided to give this tubeless a go for reals since I already had the set up for it on new bike. I purchased orange seal (they say it is better than Stan's) they claim orange seal doesn't dry out. Took my current tubeless tire off and spent 20 min. cleaning all the old Stan's crap off the tire so it would seat properly. Dumped about 4oz of sealant in the tire and was very careful mounting the tire to not spill the sealant out. Then I gave the tire a quick shot with the air compressor. The tire seemed to not be mounted good because there was bubbles coming out all along the bead. So I gave it another wick shot of air from the compressor. I can't believe what happened next. The tire blew of the rim. Scared the crap right out of me. Sounded like some c4 went off. My next door neighbor runs over and thinks I was shot and was going to find me dead. My ears are ringing so loud I can't hear anything. I have orange goo all over me and my garage. My $67 dollar tire is ruined and come to find out later it bent my rim. So this experiment trying to go tubeless ended up costing me about $100. After replacing the tire and getting my rim trued and buying the sealant. Tubes for me from now on. I do think I will put some of that sealant junk in my tubes though. Should keep me from getting flats.


Sent from my SPH-L900

I realize I should just let this die, but it is the interwebz afterall so I have to keep it going. Plus, this is as close as this sub-forum has ever gotten to the canyoneering arguments. So......

To be fair, I have had this same thing happen with a tubed setup as well. If you don't get the beads properly and evenly inside the rim before you inflate, kaboom. This is exacerbated when using an air compressor because the inflation occurs so quickly. With a floor pump you can often see that the tire isn't evenly seated and deal with the issue before you get enough air pressure in there to cause a problem.

I know, I know, you've mounted countless tires and you're not a tire mounting rookie. I'm not insinuating that you are by any means. This happened to me on my wife's bike (tubed) last summer. I just wasn't paying close enough attention and didn't get the bead down inside the channel far enough. I saw it bulging out about 1/4 second before it exploded in my face. I've witnessed a wrench monkey doing the same thing with a tubed setup in a bike shop. Sometimes the fates conspire against you in this regard.

[REDFOX]

I need to get out and ride more. I would enjoy watching people inflating their tubeless tires. :roflol:I did a national downhill race with 4psi in the front tire with a tube and I never got a flat despite race pictures of the tire wrapped over rocks. This picture was originally posted on the uutah forum somewhere.

[accadacca]

I finally read this entire thread. Good info and conversation! :lol8:

IMO, tubeless are hard to figure out and maintain for some. Of course once you get the system down, they work great. However many riders never get to this point before frustration sets in. The installation is no doubt more complicated than a tube.

[Tystevens]

Wow, lots of issues with tubeless! On other forums, ie MTBR, if you don't run tubeless, you are nothing!

FWIW, I'm reasonably happy with my tubeless setup, but it really isn't a big deal either way. My bike (Spesh Enduro Expert) came tubeless ready, and I thought I'd give it a try because it only cost me a bottle of Stans. Works fine -- no puncture flats in 2 years, doesn't seem like I have to pump the tires up any more often than I did, and my sealant seems to last just fine -- I add a shot every 3 months or so, it takes less than 5 minutes. But I don't run super low pressures -- 30 front and 35 rear at 240#, and I did have to fix a tire on the trail once due to tearing out a sidewall -- the sealant couldn't keep up with the 1" gash in the tire, so that was that.

I think part of the problem people have w/ tubeless is trying to run at very low psi, which leads to burping and air loss. I don't like the squirmy feel of a low psi tire, anyway, but I only had one burp, and no other issues.

Like I said, not the greatest thing in the world IMO -- I'm glad I didn't spend any $$ to go tubeless -- but I'll stick with it.

Re: compressors, I just have a cheap one from Harbor Freight. Although I've only had to use it on my tubeless tires once; I can get them to seal up fine with a few brisk pumps from the floor pump. I run Specialized 2Bliss ready tires and the stock Traverse rims that came taped.

[ahansen60]

I had a couple months with few problems, but the leaking returns again! I've been changing rim tape, valve stems and Stan's. It's still leaking! I don't know, maybe the tire or rim has a bad seal. Either way I've gotta do something different. I'm either going back to tubes or going to "true tubeless". Anybody know how much that will cost me if I choose the latter?

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[neilether]

Public Service Announcement:


Check your sealant more often than once a decade. Double flat yesterday after years on my high horse telling people I never get flats running tubeless. A couple of tiny holes thru the tread surface of both tires did me in.


Added Stans back in the garage and sealed right up.

[neilether]

Let's resurrect this thread. Has anybody converted to tubeless lately? Just thought about this thread as I'm doing a Ghetto tubeless (split tube) conversion on a bike I'm building for my son. I've never done the ghetto version, so we will see how it works out.

[double moo]

Check out Fatty Strippers. Designed for Fat tire bikes... same concept would work for standard rims...

http://fattystripper.com/index.html

Watch the install videos and it will make sense.

Planning to do me fat bike rims before the weather turns..

[mxerhale]

Let's resurrect this thread. Has anybody converted to tubeless lately? Just thought about this thread as I'm doing a Ghetto tubeless (split tube) conversion on a bike I'm building for my son. I've never done the ghetto version, so we will see how it works out.

I used Gorilla tape on my last bike and on my son's current wheels and they are still good after nearly 2 years. I've had 2 flats in the last 6 or 7 years since going tubeless and I would never go back.