Not Guilty

[JP]

Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty on all charges

Published July 14, 2013 | FoxNews.com

BREAKING NEWS: George Zimmerman has been acquitted of all charges in the February 2012 shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla.

The jury of six women informed Judge Debra Nelson shortly before 10 p.m. local time Saturday that they had reached a verdict after deliberating for approximately 15 hours over two days.

Zimmerman, 29, blinked and barely smiled when the verdict was announced. After hearing the verdict, Judge Nelson told Zimmerman he was free to go.

"We're ecstatic with the results," defense attorney Mark O'Mara said after the verdict. "George Zimmerman was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self-defense."

Another member of his defense team, Don West, said: "I'm glad this jury kept this tragedy from becoming a travesty."

Prosecutors called Zimmerman a liar and portrayed him was a "wannabe cop" vigilante who had grown frustrated by break-ins in his neighborhood committed primarily by young black men. Zimmerman assumed Martin was up to no good and took the law into his own hands, prosecutors said.

State Attorney Angela Corey said after the verdict that she believed second-degree murder was the appropriate charge because Zimmerman's mindset "fit the bill of second-degree murder."

"We charged what we believed we could prove," Corey said.

A court public information officer said that members of the jury had no desire to speak to the media Saturday night. Identities of jury members are currently protected by a court anonymity order.

Supporters of Martin's family who had gathered outside the courthouse yelled out "No! No!" when the verdict was announced.

"Today, justice failed Trayvon Martin and his family," said Roslyn M. Brock, Chairman of the NAACP in a statement. "We call immediately for the Justice Department to conduct an investigation into the civil rights violations committed against Trayvon Martin. This case has re-energized the movement to end racial profiling in the United States."

"We are outraged and heartbroken over today

[Iceaxe]

This trial NEVER should have happened. That this even went to trial was complete bullshit. :cool2:

[Iceaxe]

http://20105.swagster.com/swagster/20105/images/87834_zimmerman.jpg

[Byron]

About 10 years ago, I got a jury summons. I sat in this room with these two guys asking me questions when I said "Look, here's the deal...as far as I'm concerned, all these freaks standing in front of a judge are guilty of something. That's why they're here".

I didn't say that because I wanted out of jury duty, I said it because I really believe it. All I've seen, especially in regards to these big, televised cases, are slimy defense lawyers trying to come up with ANYTHING to get guilty people off the hook...O.J. and Casey Anthony, for example. Defense lawyers have always been, to me, the most vile scum.

It had never occurred to me...and I mean this, that A STATE would try to purposefully convict an innocent person. I would cheer them on, especially when they tried to "overcharge" some loser with a long arrest record...get them off the streets, for cryin' out loud. Prosecutors, to me, were heroes.

All that has changed now. And that, to me, is the biggest tragedy of this case. It's bad enough that gullible idiots on the jury can be manhandled by a slick defense attorney, but having the state prosecute for POLITICAL aims? That's done by kangaroo courts in banana republics.

Bottom line...you had better hope that if you have to defend yourself, or your property, and someone gets hurt, that you don't piss off some high shaking head in the hallowed halls of power.

[Absolute Gravity]

This trial NEVER should have happened. That this even went to trial was complete bullshit. :cool2:

Shooting and killing an unarmed person after stalking him through your neighborhood doesn't even deserve a trial? That would be bullshit. Nobody should be dead for going to the store for some GD candy. I'd have a hard time calling either one of them innocent, but hey, guess the guy with the gun gets to to tell how it went down.

ZERO sympathy from me for someone who would kill a person rather than take a beating from someone they were provoking.

[Absolute Gravity]

http://20105.swagster.com/swagster/20105/images/87834_zimmerman.jpg

And all the perks that go with it eh?

[oldno7]

Shooting and killing an unarmed person after stalking him through your neighborhood doesn't even deserve a trial? That would be bullshit. Nobody should be dead for going to the store for some GD candy. I'd have a hard time calling either one of them innocent, but hey, guess the guy with the gun gets to to tell how it went down.

ZERO sympathy from me for someone who would kill a person rather than take a beating from someone they were provoking.

And so you're better informed on this case than a jury that acquitted??:ne_nau:

Since he "was" acquitted, it could very fairly be said, this case had no merit and should have never been presented.

[Scott P]

This trial NEVER should have happened.

I don't know about that, but on the other hand, the not guilty verdict may have been correct since there seems to be reasonable doubt.

It is obvious that Zimmerman was attacked, but who knows who threw the first punch?

Also, Martin may have "looked" suspicious, but it doesn't appear that he was actually doing anything wrong when Zimmerman started following him.

Also, Zimmerman did call the police and was told to stay in the car. Instead, he left the car and confronted Martin.

The short story seems to be that Zimmerman thought Martin looked suspiciuos, Zimmerman called the police, is told to stay in the car and instead decided to chase down the unamred Martin. A fight ensues (who threw the furst punches is unknown), Zimmerman begins to get his butt kicked, is afraid of his safety, and he shoots Martin dead.

Even if he was found innocent of criminal charges, the fact that he got out of the car and chased Martin down does give a civil suit a pretty good chance of favoring against him.

The race of either should be left out of it though.

[Byron]

ZERO sympathy from me for someone who would kill a person rather than take a beating from someone they were provoking.With all due respect, Tony...you just may think differently about this if you're ever on your back getting your ass thoroughly kicked.

[Absolute Gravity]

And so you're better informed on this case than a jury that acquitted??:ne_nau:

Since he "was" acquitted, it could very fairly be said, this case had no merit and should have never been presented.

And so now you're more informed than the jury? Or did you read somewhere that the jury said the case had no merit?
Why is merit, or lack of, somehow directly correlated with acquittal? Only true merit results in guilty verdicts and vice versa? Didn't realize it was so, uh, black and white.

Why is "was" in quotes?

[Absolute Gravity]

With all due respect, Tony...you just may think differently about this if you're ever on your back getting your ass thoroughly kicked.

I sure hope not. I also would not call a broken nose and a few cuts thoroughly kicked. Not even close.

[Byron]

Since he "was" acquitted, it could very fairly be said, this case had no merit and should have never been presented.I'm not so sure about that...Simpson and Anthony were both guilty as sin, but both acquitted.


As I was working today, I had the radio on listening to the talking heads and all the folks calling in. There's definitely two camps on this...and the ones that are bent about GZ getting off all seem to agree that he shouldn't have been "following" the kid in the first place. The kid died because of that, therefore, Zimmerman should be held responsible...period.

I followed this thing pretty closely...and it's surprising to me how so many folks aren't familiar with the TESTIMONY. Zimmerman claimed that he got out of his car to RELOCATE Martin, because he had lost him, and was subsequently "jumped".

Well, Mr. Martin isn't around to give his version of the story, but it seems that there are plenty of people that want to speak for him.

I'd bet that if Zimmerman could go back in time, he would have let that kid go on his way. It was a situation where two aggressive guys got into a fight and one lost, big. That's it.

[Absolute Gravity]

I followed this thing pretty closely...and it's surprising to me how so many folks aren't familiar with the TESTIMONY. Zimmerman claimed that he got out of his car to RELOCATE Martin, because he had lost him, and was subsequently "jumped".

I'd read that Zimmerman did not testify at his trial. Regardless this is also the story I've heard.

[Byron]

You're right...it was his lawyers that presented his version of events. Bottom line, one either believes him, thinks he's a liar or just goes with what there is in the way of evidence. The jury went with the evidence...and I agree with their conclusion.

[oldno7]

Why is "was" in quotes?

Because the fact is--he "was" acquitted!!!

This whole case is about race--that's it.

obama helped that along by saying if he had a son he would look like trayvon.

If you deny it is about race--then explain to me how hundreds of trayvons get gunned down by other trayvons, in shitcago and nobody cares.

Heres your quote---"Shooting and killing an unarmed person after stalking him through your neighborhood doesn't even deserve a trial? That would be bullshit. Nobody should be dead for going to the store for some GD candy."

And then once again explain to me why this is okay in shitcago or dc, happens daily, mostly black on black.

I guess I missed somewhere that you felt these instances were bullshit.

Yet mixed race and you're all over it.

So simply explain to me how race is not a factor here and you're equally outraged by all violent crime.

[oldno7]

Are you outraged about this?http://guardianlv.com/2013/07/chicago-murder-rate-climbs-four-more-killed-and-ten-wounded-since-friday/

Earlier Sunday afternoon, a teen boy was shot in the back and killed in the South Deering neighborhood. Police said that the shooting happened about 2:50 p.m. in the 10500 block of South Oglesby Avenue. According to authorities, the 16-year-old was taken in critical condition to Northwestern Memorial Hospital, where he later died.
The teen’s name will not be released until his relatives are notified.



There was a teenager listed as murdered, are you following it closely or does it not matter to you?

Are you calling this murder bullshit?

[Brian in SLC]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trayvon_Martin_Shooting_Call1.ogg

Bad deal. You got an armed guy who's also neighborhood watch and a teenage boy. That's gonna be a deadly combo.

I just know from friends who've followed kids in their neighborhood, got in a scuffle with them (kicked their asses, actually) that when they were talked to by the po po, the word was that they shouldna followed the kids.

Should be able to watch out for bad stuff in your neighborhood. That said, if you're taking a stroll through your neighborhood, and some dude is following you, then...

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700051632/Bluffdale-man-guilty-of-attempted-murder-in-neighborhood-watch-shooting.html?pg=all

[Byron]

Christ almighty that city is a mess! More people killed there in the last 10 years than have been killed during the entire military operations in Afghanistan? That's insane.

[Scott P]

Bottom line, one either believes him, thinks he's a liar or just goes with what there is in the way of evidence. The jury went with the evidence...

Yes and "not guilty" doesn't mean "innocent". If a jury finds that there is reasonable doubt of guilt, they are still supposed to find the defendant "not guilty" even if they think that the defendent might have committed the crime, but that it wasn't proven beyond doubt. "Not guilty" simply means "not proven" rather than innocent.

[Absolute Gravity]

Heres your quote---"Shooting and killing an unarmed person after stalking him through your neighborhood doesn't even deserve a trial? That would be bullshit. Nobody should be dead for going to the store for some GD candy."

And then once again explain to me why this is okay in shitcago or dc, happens daily, mostly black on black.

Who the hell is trying to say it is OK anywhere? You shoot and kill an unarmed person in a confrontation I would expect a trial where you have to defend your decision to kill the person. Show me where this situation happens in Chicago or DC and no trial results.

Hence my quote, in response to this quote:
http://www.bogley.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Iceaxe http://www.bogley.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?p=539511#post539511)
This trial NEVER should have happened. That this even went to trial was complete bullshit. :cool2:

I think shooting and killing an unarmed person after stalking him through your neighborhood deserves a trial. Even in Chicago, DC, your imagination, or wherever else you think that the known killer of another person doesn't have to defend that action.

[oldno7]

Christ almighty that city is a mess! More people killed there in the last 10 years than have been killed during the entire military operations in Afghanistan? That's insane.

And thats the point--there are no movie stars wearing dead shitcago kids t shirts--no president adopting them as sons, no media running a 24hour circus'.

But when movie stars/presidents/media outlets endorse one side of a crime, there becomes an expectation of guilt.

Of course endorsement's could be selective as well as political or worse yet based on sensationalism and profit's off same.

[oldno7]

I think shooting and killing an unarmed person after stalking him through your neighborhood deserves a trial. Even in Chicago, DC, your imagination, or wherever else you think that the known killer of another person doesn't have to defend that action.

So--like I said, I missed your posts where you were outraged anywhere but Florida and the TM case.

Are you outraged because it's "trending" right now? It's only trending because it became a race event as well as a circus event, am I wrong?

I'm simply saying you're apparently outraged about a jury decision yet you have no apparent outrage for inconvenient violent crimes, like shitcago.

Selective to be sure....

[oldno7]

AG--I know you didn't read the link I posted about shitcago, so heres a statistic for you out of the article--

"During the period of 2003-2011, blacks were the victims of 75 percent of 4,265 murders. Blacks also were the offenders in 75 percent of the murders."

Are you outraged that mostly blacks are killing blacks or just Hispanics killing blacks?

[Scott P]

I'm simply saying you're apparently outraged about a jury decision yet you have no apparent outrage for inconvenient violent crimes,

How do you know this? People are commenting on the Zimmerman case because that is the topic of this thread.

I agree that the media is making this too much a racial issue, but why do you think that anyone who thinks that Zimmerman may have done something wrong only cares about it because it involved people of two races? Or why do you think that someone who thinks Zimmerman may have been wrong wouldn't think that someone of the same race killing someone would also be wrong?

I haven't seen Absolute Gravity (or anyone else but you) even bring up race at all on this thread.

So far the media has, but you seem to be the only one bringing it up on this thread.

[Absolute Gravity]

So--like I said, I missed your posts where you were outraged anywhere but Florida and the TM case.

Are you outraged because it's "trending" right now? It's only trending because it became a race event as well as a circus event, am I wrong?

I'm simply saying you're apparently outraged about a jury decision yet you have no apparent outrage for inconvenient violent crimes, like shitcago.

Selective to be sure....

WTF are you talking about? I'm not outraged with the jury's decision. I'd (most likely) be outraged if there was no trial to begin with.
You seem WAY more invested in this than I am. This is just a Bogley thread that showed up, I didn't create it, just commented on it.


Selective to be sure....

Absolutely. About what canyons I do, what I feed my kids, and every other thing I can think of. I don't have the time to give everything on this planet the attention you think I should.

[Byron]

Now that's how ya do it! :cool2:

[Byron]

In regards to the "racism" thing...I'm not usually a fan of Geraldo Rivera, but he is ALL OVER IT. Check out what he's been saying about this, it cuts right to the bone!

[oldno7]

How do you know this? People are commenting on the Zimmerman case because that is the topic of this thread.



And I'm saying, why is this a topic of this thread?

Why did the Zimmerman/Martin case go viral?

It's all jumping on the popular bandwagon and has little to do with law, it has to do with emotion.

If you feel like this was an important case, will you spend as much time commenting on the 16yr old in shitcago who got shot in the back and killed?

My point again is--violent crime happens every day, what made this case go viral?

[Iceaxe]

Here is the deal.... this never would have went to trial if it had not been turned into a racial matter.... and you all know that is the truth....

The police investigated the incident and concluded the shooting met the criteria of Florida's stand your ground law. And the trial has proven the police were correct.

Everything about the trial was nothing but a racial show....

Now it you want to argue if stand you ground is a good law or if neighborhood watch groups are a good thing that is a separate issue.

But under the law as written Zimmerman was within his rights and the rest was just a racial dog and pony show.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Byron]

My point again is--violent crime happens every day, what made this case go viral?Because Obama got upset.

[Brian in SLC]

The police investigated the incident and concluded the shooting met the criteria of Florida's stand your ground law. And the trial has proven the police were correct.

Everything about the trial was nothing but a racial show....


http://www.pbs.org/pov/blog/docsoup/files/2012/03/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-fake-photo-via-pinterest-e1332883436177.png

67828

Yeah, folks jump on any bandwagon that supports their corner of the universe. Xenophobic male afraid of folks you don't know in the neighborhood? Check. Hate Obama? Check. Hate the "liberal" media? Check. Hate privileged "scary ass crackers"? Check. Hate guns? Check.

Became a media shit storm. I do think, realistically, it wasn't about race. If you listen to the audio, review GZ's history, he didn't have a history of racial slurs that I could find.

That said, it didn't seem to me that he just "stood his ground". Wasn't like he was mindin' his own business on his property and a kid came up and startin' hasslin' him. He tracked him down, followed him. And they got into it. Both probably had a chip on their shoulder.

I think it was good it went to trail. Not sure it helped clear the air on this. But, here we are still debating it.

I get going out and actively protecting your neighborhood from miscreants. I think when you do that, and, you're armed, you best have a bit of a non-confrontational demeanor, or, you'll end up shootin' some kid.

Had GZ not had a gun...maybe he and the kid would just given each other a good ol fashioned beat down. Easy to hindsite "what ifs".

Tragic situation all the way around. I think this thing has legs because it scratches a bunch of hot buttons.

[Absolute Gravity]

My point again is--violent crime happens every day, what made this case go viral?

Seemed to me it was a combination of a white dude killing an unarmed black dude, the seeming indifference of the local police, and the relatively new stand your ground law. All these put together mean ratings for the media and politicians alike


Everything about the trial was nothing but a racial show....

I disagree. In the media yes, but legally it was also about where the limits of the Stand Your Ground law lie.

[Iceaxe]

FWIW- there is nothing in Florida's stand your ground law about minding your own business, standing on your property, or profiling.....

The law is pretty simple.... it basically says if you are threatened you do not have to retreat and that you are within your rights to defend yourself.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Absolute Gravity]

The law is pretty simple.... it basically says if you are threatened you do not have to retreat and that you are within your rights to defend yourself.

Martin was feeling threatened no? Would he have been within his rights to shoot Zimmerman? Stupid law I think.

[Brian in SLC]

FWIW- there is nothing in Florida's stand your ground law about minding your own business, standing on your property, or profiling.....

The law is pretty simple.... it basically says if you are threatened you do not have to retreat and that you are within your rights to defend yourself.

Well...not just "threatened"...but, yeah, there is a part of the law that deals with "use of force by aggressor". Its actually kind of interesting to read the Florida laws:

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.

Here's an interesting part of the law:

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

So...interesting to ponder...was GZ an aggressor? He lost track of the kid, got out of his car, tracked him down. I dunno.

The debate on these "stand your ground" laws has been around the "dead men tell no tales" aspect. It ain't he said she said if there's only one party left doing the reporting.

Crazy stuff.

[DOSS]

Sounds like a jury of his peers already decided all of this. What is the point in continuing to argue the law or its application in this situation when it has already been decided. This is the way out cj system works. We would be more productive to talk about corrective actions to the system than the use of this one law...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scott P]

If you feel like this was an important case, will you spend as much time commenting on the 16yr old in shitcago who got shot in the back and killed?

If there was a thread on it, yes. The race of the individuals doesn't matter to me. I agree with you that the media made it a racial issue. That doesn't mean that it's the primary issue with anyone commenting on the thread though.

Although it may matter to the media, it wouldn't matter to me if it were two white guys, two black guys, two mormons, two democrats, or whatever.

As far as deaths in Chicago, I don't have much sympathy if it were two gang bangers going at each each other, but if someone is shot in the back as in your example, of course it would be wrong and warrants comment.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although speculation, it is certainly possible that the kid had some major attitude towards Zimmerman if Zimmerman was following him. Martin probably "looked" like a criminal in Zimmerman's eyes (and probably most of ours as well). Zimmerman also had been accused of domestic violence and was charged with assaulting a police officer in the past. It is possible, if not probable that both both were pretty aggressive. It isn't surprising a fight ensued.

If Zimmerman wasn't the one following Martin, this would be a case of obvious self defense. If it were the other way around, it would be a clean case. The fact that it was Zimmerman following Martin is what makes it worth going to trial, IMHO. It would also be a clean cut case if Martin really were caught doing a break in. Without doubt, the shooting would have been (at least in my opinion) 100% justified if either of those two were the case. Since Zimmerman was following Martin, it's much harder to differentiate.

The jury did decide that there wasn't enough proof to convict Zimmerman. It doesn't mean that he had no fault in the manner, but there is no proof that it was murder or that Zimmerman wasn't telling the truth.

[Iceaxe]

So what is the moral of this story?

Don't bring a knife... err... cement sidewalk to a gunfight.

[oldno7]

The race of the individuals doesn't matter to me. I agree with you that the media made it a racial issue. That doesn't mean that it's the primary issue with anyone commenting on the thread though.

Although it may matter to the media, it wouldn't matter to me if it were two white guys, two black guys, two mormons, two democrats, or whatever.



I agree with all of this...

Do you think there has been any intended/un-intended consequences to bso claiming if he had a son he would look like trayvon?

could these comments be construed as racist?

could these comments by the President of the United States, possibly caused a feeling of expectation?

seems odd to me that the head of the executive branch would weigh in on an ongoing criminal case, basically choosing a side.

Am I wrong?

[Sombeech]

For those who think the verdict should have been guilty, is there a particular piece of evidence you think didn't get highlighted for the jury?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Iceaxe]

I agree with all of this...

Do you think there has been any intended/un-intended consequences to bso claiming if he had a son he would look like trayvon?

could these comments be construed as racist?

could these comments by the President of the United States, possibly caused a feeling of expectation?

seems odd to me that the head of the executive branch would weigh in on an ongoing criminal case, basically choosing a side.

Am I wrong?

What Obama did and said was wrong on so many levels....

:flag:

[Iceaxe]

This guy is pretty funny, yet dead on


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME

[savanna3313]

And thats the point--there are no movie stars wearing dead shitcago kids t shirts--no president adopting them as sons, no media running a 24hour circus'.

But when movie stars/presidents/media outlets endorse one side of a crime, there becomes an expectation of guilt.

Of course endorsement's could be selective as well as political or worse yet based on sensationalism and profit's off same. Exactly.....attach a Hollywood tag to something and it's so much more meaningful, right? There were "peaceful" protests here in New Orleans after the verdict was announced, with some minor looting etc. However, over the weekend, there were 6 fatal shootings in the city......anyone protesting that? No. I grew up in this city and have always loved it, and there has always been crime just like any other city. However, what goes on these days is just senseless slaughter with children too often getting caught in the crossfire. And sadly - nearly 100% of the killings are black on black crime. The crime in Chicago, Detroit and New Orleans (#3 on the murder rate per capita list) should have the same exposure and acknowledgment as this trial has been given. jmo

[oldno7]

Exactly.....attach a Hollywood tag to something and it's so much more meaningful, right? There were "peaceful" protests here in New Orleans after the verdict was announced, with some minor looting etc. However, over the weekend, there were 6 fatal shootings in the city......anyone protesting that? No. I grew up in this city and have always loved it, and there has always been crime just like any other city. However, what goes on these days is just senseless slaughter with children too often getting caught in the crossfire. And sadly - nearly 100% of the killings are black on black crime. The crime in Chicago, Detroit and New Orleans (#3 on the murder rate per capita list) should have the same exposure and acknowledgment as this trial has been given. jmo


Bravo--:clap:

[Scott P]

Do you think there has been any intended/un-intended consequences to bso claiming if he had a son he would look like trayvon?

could these comments be construed as racist?

The comments were stupid, yes. Racist, possibly, but to me they seem more stupid that racist.

The president has the right to say dumb things, but not the right to tell the jury how to vote.

Still, what does that have to do with the people that commented on the thread? It seems that you assume that anyone who said there should have been a trial on this thread did so because of the president or because of the racial issue.

The president's comments didn't influence whether or not I think there should have been a trial. The president is neither a judge or jury either and any honest juror can't take the president's (any president) opinion in account, even if the president came right out and said he/she was guilty or not guilty.

(PS, I used to live in the westside of Chicago).

[JP]

This trial NEVER should have happened. That this even went to trial was complete bullshit. :cool2:
Absolutely!!!


Shooting and killing an unarmed person after stalking him through your neighborhood doesn't even deserve a trial? That would be bullshit. Nobody should be dead for going to the store for some GD candy. I'd have a hard time calling either one of them innocent, but hey, guess the guy with the gun gets to to tell how it went down.

ZERO sympathy from me for someone who would kill a person rather than take a beating from someone they were provoking.
Correct it does not when the evidence doesn't prove the case. Following someone while updating the police on the whereabouts of a suspicious person is not stalking. Correct. Nobody should be dead for going to the store to buy some candy...If that was all that happened.


It is obvious that Zimmerman was attacked, but who knows who threw the first punch?

Even if he was found innocent of criminal charges, the fact that he got out of the car and chased Martin down does give a civil suit a pretty good chance of favoring against him.
He got out of the car when he lost him, nobody was being "chased down". There is no law that he broke doing what he did. Here is the silent four minutes of nothingness. Zimmerman had lost sight of Martin for four minutes.


I followed this thing pretty closely...and it's surprising to me how so many folks aren't familiar with the TESTIMONY. Zimmerman claimed that he got out of his car to RELOCATE Martin, because he had lost him, and was subsequently "jumped".
Ahh, yes. The silent four minutes. Put together from the timeline when Martin was talking to his girlfriend. The timeline derived from her cell phone records and her testimony. If the "Special Prosecutor" didn't keep Martin's cell phone (that contained him fighting, refereeing fights, his drug activities, etc) from the defense, they could have found it that way. That prosecutor is in a whirlwind of shit for playing the racial political game. But that's another story. After hanging up the phone and heading back to his vehicle like the dispatcher wanted him to do, he was jumped by Martin. Martin wanting to be the thug, gang-banger wannabe decided to show off to his girlfriend and kick this crazy ass cracker's ass. In those four minutes, he could have been at his dad's. And he was at his dad's after being suspended from school for fighting in the school district of his mom. Instead he wanted to play tough guy like he did so many times in his past. He returned to Martin, he and only him, made that conscious decision to confront Zimmerman. It was the deadliest and last decision he made.


I'd read that Zimmerman did not testify at his trial.
He did testify. The numerous videos the police conducted with Zimmerman and in the news was played for the jury. His words, his statements as to what took place.


This whole case is about race--that's it.
100% without question. When Sharpton and Jackson show up somewhere, it's about racism. That's the only tune they like to conjure up. Since when in America is a Hispanic, white? NOWHERE


Bad deal. You got an armed guy who's also neighborhood watch and a teenage boy. That's gonna be a deadly combo.
Deadly combo when it plays out this way. But, this happens many times without this result.


"Not guilty" simply means "not proven" rather than innocent.
Means he is innocent. The prosecutor had no evidence to the contrary. They had nothing to bring to the table that would have brought proof beyond a reasonable doubt. And they knew it. This was a play for racial politics. Governor Scott getting nervous from the outside black wave of race-baiters. Appointed a special prosecutor that ended up withholding evidence and by-passing a grand jury. Totally playing with Zimmerman's life for the race-baiters and what she saw, a notch in her belt for her career. They took the case away from Seminole County and the Sanford Police Department, after firing the white Chief of Police and inserting a black one. Seminole County Prosecutor's Office and Sanford Police were still investigating this incident and at the time the race-baiting, carpetbaggers showed up, there was no evidence at that time to bring charges, but it was still under investigation. The white Chief of Police was basically fired for not arresting Zimmerman, but it was a chance to bring in a black Chief to appease the masses.


I think shooting and killing an unarmed person after stalking him through your neighborhood deserves a trial.
No stalking, reporting to the police, a suspicious person. And evidence proving deserves a trial, not emotion.


I agree that the media is making this too much a racial issue, but why do you think that anyone who thinks that Zimmerman may have done something wrong only cares about it because it involved people of two races?
Two names...Shartpton and Jackson.....Oh wait, three...Obama


In regards to the "racism" thing...I'm not usually a fan of Geraldo Rivera, but he is ALL OVER IT. Check out what he's been saying about this, it cuts right to the bone!
Of course he has, he's Hispanic.................

Why did the Zimmerman/Martin case go viral?

It's all jumping on the popular bandwagon and has little to do with law, it has to do with emotion.

My point again is--violent crime happens every day, what made this case go viral?
You are correct, race...but they couldn't even get that right. He is Hispanic, not white. Calling Zimmerman white is like calling Obama a black-Caucasian. In which case, Martin could never be his son nor one like him.


Here is the deal.... this never would have went to trial if it had not been turned into a racial matter.... and you all know that is the truth....

But under the law as written Zimmerman was within his rights and the rest was just a racial dog and pony show.
Yes he was, Zimmerman did nothing illegal even leading up to the confrontation brought by Martin.


Seemed to me it was a combination of a white dude killing an unarmed black dude, the seeming indifference of the local police, and the relatively new stand your ground law.

I disagree. In the media yes, but legally it was also about where the limits of the Stand Your Ground law lie.
This was not a "Stand Your Ground" incident. Zimmerman was jumped, ended up on his back and this became a classic self defense situation. If this happened anywhere else in the U.S., the end result would be the same. SYG is just that, it cancels out from other states without it, retreat. In most other states, you must retreat if you can do so without suffering serious physical harm and or death. (Unless your in your home or a bona fide employee of a business or defending a third party facing serious physical harm and or death) In this case, Zimmerman was on his back and had no way of retreating and he felt between being beaten and the comments Martin made as he went for Zimmerman's gun.


FWIW- there is nothing in Florida's stand your ground law about minding your own business, standing on your property, or profiling.....

The law is pretty simple.... it basically says if you are threatened you do not have to retreat and that you are within your rights to defend yourself.
And again, this was not a case of SYG, simple self defense.


Martin was feeling threatened no? Would he have been within his rights to shoot Zimmerman? Stupid law I think.
Yep. And that is the problem. Gang members have used this law down here to justify shooting an opposing gang member.


So what is the moral of this story?

Don't bring a knife... err... cement sidewalk to a gunfight.
Skittles, don't bring the rainbow :haha:

[Byron]

Oh my...JP opening up a can of righteous whoop-ass! :nod: I think this thread is done now, eh?

[Absolute Gravity]

Correct it does not when the evidence doesn't prove the case.
If this were the case then wouldn't the case be dismissed at the pre-trial hearing?



Yep. And that is the problem. Gang members have used this law down here to justify shooting an opposing gang member.

An article describing this and other abuses.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-law-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133

[JP]

Oh my...JP opening up a can of righteous whoop-ass! :nod: I think this thread is done now, eh?
:bandit:


If this were the case then wouldn't the case be dismissed at the pre-trial hearing?
That would have been the case for a grand jury, but the specially appointed prosecutor decided to skip that step as well as hide evidence from the defense team. She's going to be in a world of hurt. NBC is already getting sued and since the light has been shed on her shenanigans, I can see a lawsuit for her personally and that prosecutor's office. The reason why the Seminole County's office didn't bring this as well as the Sanford Police...There wasn't probable cause to even bring this to a grand jury. If they did, it would have been shot down by that jury. They were still investigating when the special prosecutor appointed by Gov. Scott took it out of their hands. Seminole County and Sanford were handling this case the way it should have been.

[Sombeech]

Also, Zimmerman did call the police and was told to stay in the car. Instead, he left the car and confronted Martin.


One clarification, while Z was on the phone and the dispatcher told him they didn't need him to follow TM, Z said OK and he was already following.

There has never been any evidence that suggests Mr Z continued to follow TM after the dispatch suggested he not follow.

So the whole story of Z ignoring the police or dispatch's request to stop following is totally unfounded.

Some good info here as Al Sharpton tries and fails to get his talking points out of George Zimmerman's lawyer before the trial.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRm-OK0rjw8

[JP]

The one who did the confronting was Martin.

[hank moon]

I think it's fair to say the only person on the planet who really knows what happened was Mr. Z. Speaking of Z, it sounds like WWZ in the neighborhood tonight...it's like urban wartime outside...4 cop-ters circling over our neighborhood...cop cars, cop-cycles, cop golf carts are on the streets...following and flanking a very large group of marching people. yay, Oakland!

[Sombeech]

Isn't it also interesting that the only injuries found on Trayvon were the gunshot wound?

This would also debunk any theory that Zimmerman was attacking him, and the wounds on Zimmerman also assist his claim that he was being beaten by Trayvon.

Not a popular talking point for some folks striving for "justice".

[Brian in SLC]

There has never been any evidence that suggests Mr Z continued to follow TM after the dispatch suggested he not follow.

So the whole story of Z ignoring the police or dispatch's request to stop following is totally unfounded.


Well, GZ own statement maybe? From the Wiki page on this (which is packed full o' stuff):

"Zimmerman said he left his truck to find a street sign so he would be able to tell the police dispatcher where he was. He told investigators that he was not following Martin but was "just going in the same direction he was" to find an address, but admitted that he had also left his truck to try to see in which direction Martin had gone."

He said, she said. Only version of what really happened was GM's. He's the only one left out of the incident that really knows what happened. The cell phone calls are interesting to listen to. Someone was screaming help in the background...and...then you can hear the gunshot. Whatever happened...it wasn't over in the blink of an eye.

Witness 8's testimony is interesting. She was on the phone with TM when it went down. "She then heard Martin say, "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?""

GZ may or may not have followed TM, but, he got out of his car. If you look at the crime scene photo's (kinda grim), the body is not near the road where the car is parked. If you look at an overview map, he's on a sidewalk between two rows of apt/condos with a street running on either side of the front of these houses. His car was purportedly down the street a ways.

Interesting...GZ says he'll meet the cops at the mailboxes (by the clubhouse), which, is in the opposite direction from where is car is parked and the body is found. Also interesting to note where GZ parked versus where each of them lived. TM's body was found in between the car and where he was staying. GZ's residence was a ways away.

So...you can say there's no evidence that he was following TM, but, if you look at the map of where stuff is, it does add a layer of some confusion. He was a ways from his car, some say around 80 yards. TM was 100 yards from where he was staying. Who knows which direction each was travelling at the time of the thing.

"History is written by the winners." George Orwell

[Brian in SLC]

Isn't it also interesting that the only injuries found on Trayvon were the gunshot wound?

This would also debunk any theory that Zimmerman was attacking him, and the wounds on Zimmerman also assist his claim that he was being beaten by Trayvon.

Not a popular talking point for some folks striving for "justice".

By the same token, if you gave GZ a beat down, wouldn't your hands be swollen or show some damage? Maybe not. Didn't he have a scratch on one of his pinky's? From personal experience...I dunno. Mixed bag.

[Iceaxe]

Not really sure where you are going Brian... it is not illegal to follow someone or observe an individual so long as you are not breaking any other laws....

Zimmerman was well within his rights to monitor an individual.

As for no injuries on Martin's hands.... it was my understanding he was pounding Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk and that he was not slugging him in the face.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Sombeech]

So...you can say there's no evidence that he was following TM

No, everybody, even Zimmerman is clear that he WAS following Trayvon, obviously. He makes this clear during the call to 911.

But the mistake is assuming he CONTINUES to follow him after the dispatcher advises against it. This is where there is absolutely no evidence.



the body is not near the road where the car is parked

Couldn't this suggest that Zimmerman was obeying the advice given by the dispatch, and on his way back to his car when Trayvon approached him?


By the same token, if you gave GZ a beat down, wouldn't your hands be swollen or show some damage?

Not if Trayvon is giving him a beating as testified here:

http://i.imgur.com/RgU39wt.gif

[Sombeech]

Granted, I really don't know a ton of details about the case, I don't know if it's been made clear if Z was in his car during the 911 call or walking around, I haven't seen the crime scene photos, stuff like that.

I find that sometimes in such a polarizing situation that grabs national attention, you can really have an untainted thought process of what probably happened, without being polluted by political talking points.

[hank moon]

GZ may or may not have followed TM

Z admitted to following M during his phone call to the police (the cops recorded it - bet you can find it on YouTube).

[Brian in SLC]

Not really sure where you are going Brian... it is not illegal to follow someone or observe an individual so long as you are not breaking any other laws....

Zimmerman was well within his rights to monitor an individual.

As for no injuries on Martin's hands.... it was my understanding he was pounding Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk and that he was not slugging him in the face.

Absolutely agree if you see someone you think is sketchy in a neighborhood...you can monitor them.

I guess the stickin' point for me on this is...he calls, they tell him to not follow, he says ok, then, he ends up shootin' the kid. Its that gap.

Not illegal to follow someone, sure. I can think of a number of situations, though, that if someone, say, a fairly robust guy, was following you or yours in your neighborhood, you'd probably have something to say about it. Fine line between a neighborhood watch and a stalker.

GZ stated and the photo's from the scene kinda confirm he got hit in the front of the face. Back of the head was bleedin' too. TM's pants had grass stains consistent with kneeling.

If you're lookin' for trouble...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1p413q3neI

[Brian in SLC]

I find that sometimes in such a polarizing situation that grabs national attention, you can really have an untainted thought process of what probably happened, without being polluted by political talking points.

Yeah. That pollution has been fairly obscene.

Thought the vid of the exchange between Sharpton and the defense lawyer was good. Lawyer dude was sharp.

[Brian in SLC]

Z admitted to following M during his phone call to the police (the cops recorded it - bet you can find it on YouTube).

Sure, easy to find and listen to (on the wiki page). Amazing how calm GZ is on the recording. I think the question was if GZ followed TM after he was told not to by the person on the phone. I dunno. When you listen to it, it sounds like he's in his car because he describes where the cops should come and where he'll be. Maybe he wasn't. Here's the transcript:

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...
Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...
Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...
Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.
Dispatcher: Okay...
Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?
Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]
Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?
Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.
Dispatcher: Okay.
Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.
Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.
Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.
Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]
Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. Shit, he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance...****ing [disputed/unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Okay.
Dispatcher: All right, sir, what is your name?
Zimmerman: George...He ran.
Dispatcher: All right, George, what's your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman.
Dispatcher: And George, what's the phone number you're calling from?
Zimmerman: [redacted]
Dispatcher: All right, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, [Note 3, 4th picture] that's my truck...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don't know. It's a cut through so I don't know the address.[Note 3, 6th & 7th pictures]
Dispatcher: Okay. Do you live in the area?
Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It's a home. It's 1950,[Note 3, 3rd picture] Oh, crap. I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: Okay. Do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
Zimmerman: Yeah, that's fine.
Dispatcher: All right, George. I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?
Zimmerman: Actually, could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?
Dispatcher: Okay, yeah. That's no problem.
Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah, I got it [redacted]
Zimmerman: Yeah, you got it.
Dispatcher: Okay. No problem. I'll let them know to call you when they're in the area.
Zimmerman: Thanks.
Dispatcher: You're welcome.[97]

[Sombeech]

Absolutely agree if you see someone you think is sketchy in a neighborhood...you can monitor them.

I guess the stickin' point for me on this is...he calls, they tell him to not follow, he says ok, then, he ends up shootin' the kid. Its that gap.

Not illegal to follow someone, sure. I can think of a number of situations, though, that if someone, say, a fairly robust guy, was following you or yours in your neighborhood, you'd probably have something to say about it. Fine line between a neighborhood watch and a stalker.

GZ stated and the photo's from the scene kinda confirm he got hit in the front of the face. Back of the head was bleedin' too. TM's pants had grass stains consistent with kneeling.

If you're lookin' for trouble...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1p413q3neI


Brian, if you think I'll abandon my deeply rooted biased opinion on this case for which I know very little about just because you've posted an awesome rare live video of Bon Scott singing Live Wire in the pre Cliff Williams days on Bass,


You are absolutely right

[Sombeech]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_WszfHnI64&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Scott P]

In many ways, this incident reminds me of something that happened to me years ago when I was in my late teens.

We (all teenagers) were in Delta Utah (where my grandparent's lived on a farm) and going to get lava rocks in the desert to the south for landscaping. I was driving my grandpa’s truck and my cousins were in the back. It was dark on the drive home.

When we were near town, a car started following us closely. It wasn’t simple tailgating, they were obviously following us since we were turning onto obscure roads. Eventually the driver (a huge dude holding a bat) sped past us and jumped out of the car yelling at us to pull over.

I hit the gas and after that it was a high speed chase with him behind chasing us; we lit off towards the desert. Speeds reached as high as you can go in an old beat up I-6 Ford 250. Eventually the police and highway patrol caught up and we were relieved that they were out to catch the person chasing and threatening us, but we were surprised that the police went straight to us.

Apparently the driver was a fireman who thought we looked suspicious. There had been some drive by mailbox smashings on some remote streets that were bashed in with baseball bats not too long prior. The fireman reported a bunch of kids in the back of a pickup holding baseball bats driving the remote streets around Delta after dark.

The truth is that my cousins in the back were holding shovels, not baseball bats and the shovels were for digging the lava rocks.

The fireman was lucky one of my cousins didn’t throw one of the big lava rocks (about the size of a basketball) out the back while he was chasing us at a high speed. If I was in the back rather than driving, I would have done it, in fact I kept thinking to myself “throw the rocks guys". Almost surely, it would have caused a very serious accident with the person chasing us.

When you start chasing someone in the dark, for reasons unknown, legal or not, people are going to panic. Even if Martin did throw the first punch, it’s not surprising. I don’t think his reaction was that unexpected.

[Iceaxe]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-b25JlWa1040/UToFEaWnnhI/AAAAAAAApww/wMpUBp3q2pY/s1600/FGHairPull.gif

[Iceaxe]

Nothing follows a prayer to God....... better than a riot.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/zimmerman-protest-turns-violent-article-1.1399750

How much do you want to bet that 90% of the people involved can't spell "acquitted." Better yet, I'll put $20 on the fact that none of these people understand how our judicial system works. Better yet, I have $100 on the fact that none of them graduated high school.

Just a hunch.... Way to keep things civil.

67885

67886

[Iceaxe]

You notice every face you can see they are smiling or laughing? Yeah, they are sad for Treyvon... Who knows.... Maybe they are just celebrating his life?

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1399747.1373977192!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/usa-florida-shooting.jpg

Winter hats and hoodies? LA must be really cold.... I'll bet $200 that none of the "outraged citizens" in that picture are gainfully employed and paying taxes.

Anyhoo.... As long as they are f**king up their own neighborhood, who really cares?

[savanna3313]

Does anyone remember all the rioting by the white population after OJ Simpson was acquitted? :ne_nau: Neither do I.

[Brian in SLC]

Brian, if you think I'll abandon my deeply rooted biased opinion on this case for which I know very little about just because you've posted an awesome rare live video of Bon Scott singing Live Wire in the pre Cliff Williams days on Bass,

You are absolutely right

Common ground, baby!

Scott, I have a kind of similar story. Kids do strange things when they're being followed...

Driving home from work a few years ago on HWY 201. Saw a car pull up to a stop sign on my right. I was going at least 65mph... Have half an eye on that car, but, I notice its not at a full stop and kinda edging out...I think, "no way they're going to pull out into traffic." Yeah, they do. I hit the brakes mostly to leave a skid for the cops to ponder, slide sideways, and, crash right into the back panel of their car. Its a bunch of teenage boys. I'm thinkin'...crap...how's this gonna go. Cops get there super quick, the kids and I both pull off the side of the road. I give my statement, and, wonder what they're going to say. Glad they were honest. They said a car had been following them that they thought were gang members and they waited to pull out in front of me so the car following couldn't. Turned out the guys they were worried about were just friends trying to get their attention.

Anyhoo, folks do crazy things when they're being followed by someone they think is a threat.

[Brian in SLC]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-15-2013/acquitted-development

[Byron]

Oh for Christ's sake...this thing has turned into a complete freak show. Now they're claiming that all the jurors are racist...a bunch of "Paula Dean's".

In regards to the Daily Show clip above, that woman who was sentenced to 20 years for attempted murder where "stand your ground" didn't apply against her ex LEFT HER MOTHERS HOUSE AND CAME BACK WITH THE GUN...that's where she screwed up. She broke the golden liberal rule...she didn't call the cops. If she would have done that instead, then she would have beat the rap.

Of course, Mr. Daily Show commentator didn't mention that little factoid, did he?

All this "outrage" over a delinquent...a thief and a useless punk. Any of you heard about the pictures that were on his cell phone? As far as I'm concerned, Zimmerman did the world a favor by capping that fool. Yeah...coexist my ass.

[Scott P]

Any of you heard about the pictures that were on his cell phone? As far as I'm concerned, Zimmerman did the world a favor by capping that fool.

Martin:

No juvenile or criminal record, but suspended from school three times. One time was for writing a WTF on a school door. Another time was possessing a marijuana pipe/empty bag. No mention of the 3rd?

Zimmerman:

Arrested for assaulting a police officer. Had restraining orders against him for domestic violence.

Which is worse? Assuming the allegations are true, is beating women and assaulting police officers really better than smoking pot or writing WTF on a school door?

Neither were squeaky clean.

Personally, I agree with the Inquisitor opinion column below:

[I]In the context of the trial, the evidence from Trayvon Martin

[savanna3313]

Oh for Christ's sake...this thing has turned into a complete freak show. Now they're claiming that all the jurors are racist...a bunch of "Paula Dean's". Oh gosh....I'm sorry but I couldn't resist. :facepalm1:Photo of the Zimmerman Jurors. Too soon? :ne_nau:

[Byron]

Now THAT is friggin' funny!!!

[Byron]

Scott...if Zimmerman would have been the one to get shot, I probably would'nt shed any tears for him, either.

I just can't relate to these kinds of people. When I was a teenager, it was all good, clean fun...with a few pretty lightweight shenanigans here and there. My core group of buddies were me, Joey, Barry and Devin. We all lived within a few blocks of each other. I think the "worst" thing we ever did was sneak over into a construction site after dark to swipe a sheet of plywood because we had a hole in our skateboard ramp. It never occurred to us to steal or burglarize from someone's home, or get into fights, or get suspended from school...the losers did that crap.

There was this guy on the periphery, his name was Jeff. We would let him hang with us sometimes because he skated. But he was nothing but trouble. I heard (20 years ago) that he was in prison. Then more recently I heard he was dead...killed in a violent confrontation.

If I had kids, I wouldn't let them hang around with a guy like Trayvon. I wouldn't want my family to have anything to do with him. In fact, I would wish that this punk would just go away.I could tell you stories where Jeff nearly got all us in trouble with his stupid stunts...but we just got lucky. Trouble, however, seemed to always catch up with him.

What I find most ironic about this whole thing is that the black "community" have made a martyr of a guy that represents everything that is wrong with them. At least Mrs. Obama got it kinda right when she went to Chicago when that little girl was killed in gang crossfire...otherwise ignoring the slaughter that is going on.

If Trayvon was a good kid, I might see this whole thing differently...but he wasn't. High likelihood that this kid was born bad, was going to grow up bad, and remain bad from start to finish...perhaps causing great distress to others along the way. I say good riddance.

[Bluff-Canyoneer]

I think the "worst" thing we ever did was sneak over into a construction site after dark to swipe a sheet of plywood because we had a hole in our skateboard ramp.

If Trayvon was a good kid, I might see this whole thing differently...but he wasn't. High likelihood that this kid was born bad, was going to grow up bad, and remain bad from start to finish...perhaps causing great distress to others along the way. I say good riddance.

Let's be clear, you stole (i.e. were a thief). Using wimpy words like "swipe" does not lessen the act. The fact that you needed it for a skateboard ramp is irrelevant.

Personally, I see theft as a more serious crime than writing WTF on a door, or smoking weed, which is mostly a victimless "crime" and is now legal in the state in which you reside (but not where TM lived). We have no other credible evidence that TM was "bad from start to finish."

Let's hope some gun nut doesn't think you're "bad" and decide "good riddance."

[Iceaxe]

I knew this Knee Grow was a nut but I've underestimated him...


http://gunssavelives.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Reverend_Jesse_Jackson_speaking_at_the_UN_crop-243x300.jpg

Jesse Jackson Calls for International Investigation on Zimmerman, Asks UN to Step In

Is there any organization that isn’t trying to get involved in the George Zimmerman case?!

Earlier this week we reported on the Department of Justice investigation into George Zimmerman, US Attorney General Eric Holder used the case to weigh in on self defense laws, Congress may launch an investigation into the shooting and now Jesse Jackson is calling on the United Nations to get involved.

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/jesse-jackson-calls-for-international-investigation-on-zimmerman-asks-un-to-step-in/

[Byron]

Let's hope some gun nut doesn't think you're "bad" and decide "good riddance."It's all good, dude...I'll take my chances, especially considering I'd more than likely be the first to pull the trigger. :mrgreen:

[Byron]

Let's be clear, you stole (i.e. were a thief). Using wimpy words like "swipe" does not lessen the act. The fact that you needed it for a skateboard ramp is irrelevant.

No shit? I think going through life as a perfect angel is quite impossible...perhaps you should do a bit more research into just what Mr. Trayvon was all about. It's considerably more than a bag of weed and a black magic marker. Drink deep ye kool aid, dude.

[Byron]

I knew this Knee Grow was a nut but I've underestimated him...


http://gunssavelives.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Reverend_Jesse_Jackson_speaking_at_the_UN_crop-243x300.jpg

It blows my mind that this freak was able to parley his nonsense into a multimillion dollar empire. But then again, some guy got rich selling pet rocks, so go figure?

[Sombeech]

Oh gosh....I'm sorry but I couldn't resist. :facepalm1:Photo of the Zimmerman Jurors. Too soon? :ne_nau:
http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=67893&stc=1&d=1374077563




http://oi40.tinypic.com/f83k4.jpg

[JP]

67885

Where da white people at?

[Bluff-Canyoneer]

Where da white people at?

White dudes can riot, they just need the right cause!

I was caught in a full scale riot one time, all white dudes doing the rioting after a black undercover cop tied to make a pot bust at a concert in my hometown of Richmond, VA. Totally out of control for hours. Thousands of beer bottles being thrown at cops on horses, helicopters fly low over the crowd trying to push them away from the cops. Cars being overturned and burned inside the stadium. Steve Miller Band kept playing right through it all!


I wasn't involved in the mayhem, just a high school kid trying to listen to some music. I did get whacked on the head by a riot-geared cop when I tried to find a water fountain to get a drink, as it was a hot and sunny. Another had a dog biting at my heels and I ended up climbing a chain link fence and running for my life.

67904:slobber:

http://www.richmondmagazine.com/articles/rock-n-roll-riot-extended-play-03-29-2011.html

http://www.timesdispatch.com/entertainment-life/no-hassles-music-fest-turned-into-full-scale-riot/article_472c27d8-b9bc-5431-b257-198a72cc5450.html

[Absolute Gravity]

Where da white people at?

Waiting for their team to win/lose an important sports game.

67907

[Absolute Gravity]

Where da white people at?

Or going crazy when a pedophile hiding coach has to resign in disgrace.

67908

[oldno7]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a70_1374030948

[oldno7]

eric holder on stand your ground law


“We must examine laws that take this further by eliminating the common sense and age-old requirement that people who feel threatened have a duty to retreat, outside their home, if they can do so safely.” Otherwise, Holder said, “by allowing and perhaps encouraging violent situations to escalate in public, such laws undermine public safety. The list of resulting tragedies is long and, unfortunately, has victimized too many who are innocent.”

[Iceaxe]

You mean Eric "fast and furious" Holder?

The same Eric Holder who supplied the Mexican drug cartels with illegal firearms?

That guy has caused more gun deaths then all the stand your ground and home defense case combined times 10.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Iceaxe]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7667042560/h35E4566B/

[JP]

I was referring to the pic I posted. Can you two dig one up after the O.J. verdict :popcorn:

[Scott P]

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/07/19/charles-barkley-said-agrees-with-george-zimmerman-verdict/

Outspoken former NBA superstar Charles Barkley said he agrees with the verdict in the murder trial of George Zimmerman, but blasted the media for giving platforms to racists to “vent” their ignorance.

Barkley, 50, gave his assessment on the high-profile Florida murder trial to CNBC on Thursday, saying jurors simply did not have enough evidence to convict the former neighborhood watch volunteer in the 2012 killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.


“Well I agree with the verdict,” Barkley said. “I feel sorry that young kid got killed, but they didn’t have enough evidence to charge him. Something clearly went wrong that night — clearly something went wrong — and I feel bad for anybody who loses a kid, but if you looked at the case and you don’t make it — there was some racial profiling, no question about it — but something happened that changed the dynamic of that night.”


“I feel sorry that young kid got killed, but they didn’t have enough evidence to charge him."



Barkley recognized his take is “probably not a popular opinion among most people,” but said the evidence pointed to an acquittal.


“I just feel bad because I don’t like when race gets out in the media ‘cuz I don’t think the media has a ‘pure heart,’ as I call it,” Barkley continued. “There are very few people who have a pure heart when it comes to race. Racism is wrong in any shape [or] form — there are a lot of black people who are racist, too. I think sometimes when people talk about race, they act like only white people are racist. There are a lot of black people who are racist. And I don’t like when it gets out there in the media because I don’t think the media has clean hands.”

Barkley, originally of Alabama, was named one of the NBA’s all-time 50 greatest players in 1993, the same year he won the league’s Most Valuable Player award. The 11-time All-Star retired after the 1999-2000 season and then began a successful career as a basketball analyst for Turner Network Television. He has also flirted with the idea of entering politics, announcing in 2008 that he intended to run for governor of Alabama before later changing his mind.

“Like I said, I feel sorry that young kid got killed, but just judging by the evidence, I don’t think that guy should’ve went to jail for the rest of his life,” Barkley continued. “Mr. Zimmerman was wrong to pursue, he was racial profiling, but I think Trayvon Martin — God rest his soul — I think he did flip the switch and started beating the hell out of Mr. Zimmerman. But it was just a bad situation.”

Barkley then took aim at unnamed media personalities who allegedly allowed their own biases to show throughout coverage of the murder trial.


“The main thing I feel bad for is it gives every white person and black person who’s racist a platform to vent their ignorance,” he said. “That’s the thing that bothered me the most. I watched this trail closely and I watched these people on television talking about it. A lot of these people have a hidden agenda. They want to have their racist views, whether they are white or black … Their biases definitely come out. It was a bad situation. We all lost.”


Michael Skolnik, editor-in-chief of GlobalGrind.com and political director to Russell Simmons, disagreed with Barkley’s take, he told FoxNews.com in a statement.


“I think Mr. Barkley certainly has a right to his opinion of what he perceives the evidence to be,” Skolnik said. “However, there is absolutely no medical evidence that Trayvon was ‘beating the hell out of Mr. Zimmerman,’ as he received minor and insignificant injuries. With regards to race, as a member of the media, I encourage him to facilitate a dialogue about the effects that racial profiling have on young, black and brown teenagers, striving towards a future where we no longer profile someone to be a potential burglar because of the color of their skin, but instead profile them to be a potential president.”

================================================== ================

Well said (Barkley). While I think that Zimmerman did do some things he shouldn't have, and I do feel sympathy for Martin, it is the media that has made this a strictly racial issue. I still think that the shooting was a tragedy and don't think either involved planned the outcome.

As far as rioting goes though, I really don't get it. People are going to riot in California (or wherever) against their neighbors who were thousands of miles away and had nothing to do with it?

Actually, it seems like there wasn't much rioting in the big scheme of things. It seems that the media wants to provoke people into rioting just to sell more news stories.

There were a few rioters, but it seems to be confined to a few hundred people at best vs the ~300+ million that didn't riot. Further, ~39 million blacks did no rioting vs. a few hundred that did as well.

The media seems to want to report that half the nation was burned to the ground or something.

[ratagonia]

[QUOTE=Scott P;539736]In many ways, this incident reminds me of something that happened to me years ago when I was in my late teens.

We (all teenagers) were in Delta Utah (where my grandparent's lived on a farm) and going to get lava rocks in the desert to the south for landscaping. I was driving my grandpa

[Iceaxe]

Could this frickin' race baiter play this out anymore?!?

Mr. Obama, since when did African Americans have such a race problem with hispanics like Zimmerman?


http://cdn-media.nationaljournal.com/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=30007&format=homepage_fullwidth


President Obama: 'Trayvon Martin Could've Been Me 35 Years Ago'

President Obama made a surprise visit to the White House press room on Friday to speak about the aftermath of the Trayvon Martin case, making some of the most bold and open remarks about race of his presidency. You can read the full remarks here.

While the president began by commending the judge in the case as "professional" and the jurors as "properly instructed," he brought the case into the much broader context of race in America.

When Trayvon Martin was first shot, I said this could've been my son. Another way of saying that is, Trayvon Martin could've been me 35 years ago. And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there's a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it's important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn't go away.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/president-obama-trayvon-martin-could-ve-been-me-35-years-ago-20130719

[Scott P]

Snopes doesn't allow cut and paste anymore, but check this out:

Very interesting:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/martin.asp

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=67828&d=1373863271

The photo in the lower right isn't the Martin that got shot at all.

He did have a picture of a pot plant and a gun though.

Of course, it doesn't make a difference now, but very interesting.

[Byron]

Today I finally figured it out.

For the liberals, it's all about the possibility of more gun control. For the blacks, man...they are all bent about "profiling". To them, that's what it's all about.

There was this guy that lived down the street from me back in the nineties. He was one scary looking dude...tattoos up and down his neck, long hair, just plain mean looking...a biker. He looked like the kind of guy that would knock your teeth out and then inlay them on the gas tank of his Harley like a trophy. There's no doubt that he made people nervous...they would cross the street when they saw him coming. When he walked into a bank, security guards would look him over hard. We talked about these kinds of things.

In reality, he was one of the nicest guys I've ever met. His wife was super sweet and he had two beautiful little girls that we very friendly and polite. He was an awesome dad. He was a mechanic, worked on big diesel trucks...learned it in the army. Always smiling, always friendly. Can't judge a book by it's cover, eh?

Another bit of reality is that there is nothing that can be done about these perceptions, it's just the way it is. Profiling? You bet. If I pull up to the ATM machine down the street and there is some hoodlum looking dude hanging out nearby, I'll come back later. People that dress all "gangsta" are bound to get scrutiny. Right or wrong, that's the way it is and it'll never change...It can't, and will not be wished away.

So now what do we get from the blacks in response to what they perceive (probably correctly) as a profiling issue? The exact opposite of what should be done...just adding fuel to the fire.

Bear in mind that these race baiters make quite a nice living from this crap. They play it up as much as possible, resulting in more first class travel, gourmet meals and the dollars pouring into their coffers. They don't need the whole country on their side, or even a small portion of it...just a hundred thousand writing checks is all it takes to keep the bank account nice and plump.Then you throw in the liberal media vultures kicking in their share. Easy money, without even breaking a sweat.

You know what should be done? A national campaign led by the black "gods"...Jay Z, Beyonce, Lebron, Denzel, Oprah and yes, Mr. and Mrs. Obama, too. These people, among them, are worth billions. They should kick loose with a portion of that to really put some pressure on the black community to knock off the bullshit. They should say to the black youth to stop with the violence, stop adoring the "gangsta" lifestyle. Do something, really...to help change the perception.

Yeah, the perception. Mr. Obama said it today...doors being locked as I walk by, women in elevators holding their breath and clutching their purses a bit tighter. Well, why the hell do you thing that is? Do you really want to blame "them" for feeling that way? He and the people I mentioned above have the power to get the conversation started in the right direction...but they just won't go there.

I suppose you can't depend on Jay Z, considering he writes songs with lyrics like "Ni**a ho suck my d**k". Really dude?

And in regards to Mr. Obama...thanks again for quite effectively dodging the real issue. It's a shame that no one gives a rat's ass about what he has to say...and that's tragic when he has the power to rally for the good if he would only come out and say it like it REALLY IS, instead of playing it like just another pissed off black dude, looking to place blame anywhere but where it belongs. Everyone just tunes him out.

As long as these power players keep up the no end to the stinking mess nonsense, that's exactly how it will remain. Whew!

[Scott P]

You know what should be done?

What should be done and what will be done are not the same.

What should be done:

There should be no mention of race, other than human beings.

It shouldn't be tracked by the government or anyone else. In this country there shouldn't be "whites", "blacks", "Hispanics", etc. There should only be "Americans". Race or ethnic background shouldn't be asked on things like job applications, school applications, etc.

When trying to identify someone it could be mentioned (i.e. missing person, looking for a criminal, etc.) only to describe someone in order to find them, but not otherwise. It shouldn't be any different from mentioning age, height or weight to describe someone.

The only race consideration should be the human race.

At least that's how I think it should be.

Of course, things like gansta attire, nose rings, some types of tattoos, etc. are choices unlike race. You are right that people are going to judge people in that way. Even then you can't judge a book by it's cover, I see what you are saying. They may be (and most are probably are) nice, but they do get judged. Although the fault of the "judger", there is at least some choice by the "judgee" in the way that they appear. (Which is probably the same thing you are saying).

[Brian in SLC]

And in regards to Mr. Obama...thanks again for quite effectively dodging the real issue. It's a shame that no one gives a rat's ass about what he has to say...and that's tragic when he has the power to rally for the good if he would only come out and say it like it REALLY IS, instead of playing it like just another pissed off black dude, looking to place blame anywhere but where it belongs. Everyone just tunes him out.

Well, I give a rat's ass about what he had to say, and, I felt what he did say was heartfelt.

I'll post it here in case you missed it:

THE PRESIDENT: I wanted to come out here, first of all, to tell you that Jay is prepared for all your questions and is very much looking forward to the session. The second thing is I want to let you know that over the next couple of weeks, there’s going to obviously be a whole range of issues -- immigration, economics, et cetera -- we'll try to arrange a fuller press conference to address your questions.

The reason I actually wanted to come out today is not to take questions, but to speak to an issue that obviously has gotten a lot of attention over the course of the last week -- the issue of the Trayvon Martin ruling. I gave a preliminary statement right after the ruling on Sunday. But watching the debate over the course of the last week, I thought it might be useful for me to expand on my thoughts a little bit.

First of all, I want to make sure that, once again, I send my thoughts and prayers, as well as Michelle’s, to the family of Trayvon Martin, and to remark on the incredible grace and dignity with which they’ve dealt with the entire situation. I can only imagine what they’re going through, and it’s remarkable how they’ve handled it.

The second thing I want to say is to reiterate what I said on Sunday, which is there’s going to be a lot of arguments about the legal issues in the case -- I'll let all the legal analysts and talking heads address those issues. The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The juries were properly instructed that in a case such as this reasonable doubt was relevant, and they rendered a verdict. And once the jury has spoken, that's how our system works. But I did want to just talk a little bit about context and how people have responded to it and how people are feeling.

You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago. And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there’s a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it’s important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn’t go away.

There are very few African American men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me. There are very few African American men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me -- at least before I was a senator. There are very few African Americans who haven't had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.

And I don't want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And it’s inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear. The African American community is also knowledgeable that there is a history of racial disparities in the application of our criminal laws -- everything from the death penalty to enforcement of our drug laws. And that ends up having an impact in terms of how people interpret the case.

Now, this isn't to say that the African American community is na

[Byron]

And for us to be able to gather together business leaders and local elected officials and clergy and celebrities and athletes, and figure out how are we doing a better job helping young African American men feel that they're a full part of this society and that they've got pathways and avenues to succeed -- I think that would be a pretty good outcome from what was obviously a tragic situation. And we're going to spend some time working on that and thinking about that.

I'm familiar with the speech he gave, Brian. Now in regards to the portion I quoted above, which is the basis of my earlier post...Show me don't tell me, pal. Yeah, it's a lot of smooth talk, let's see some action, eh?

So he says he'll engage clergy, athletes and celebrities to help solve the problem. So where has this grand plan been? It took this kid getting shot to make it come to fruition? Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk...like I said, show me don't tell me.

I'm certainly not going to be holding my breath waiting for this big national campaign to get started that "changes the perception". They can talk it, but they never walk it. If he would have had a bunch of these people standing behind him, looking all serious and like they're ready to get to work on it, then perhaps it would get my attention. They certainly haven't had a problem with propping people up behind him to help strengthen his points...that would be a great start, don't ya think? All these black superstars, ready to rock, checkbooks in hand.

Tell you what, Brian. If you can come back in here a year from now and point to something that these people (or anyone, for that matter)are doing that is making a REAL impact on changing the perception of black youth, I'll gladly let you rub it in my face.

[Iceaxe]

I'm going to laugh my ass off if the guy Zimmerman rescued ends up being African-American. I'm just curious if the 911 dispatcher told him he didn't need him to do that.

:roflol:

And If the guy is white... stay tuned for a statement from Obama stating "If the victim were Black, this would have had a totally different outcome".

:roflol: :roflol:


George Zimmerman Rescues Victim From Overturned Truck!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3m4SoScdQk

July 22, 2013
George Zimmerman, who has been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue a family who was trapped in an overturned vehicle, police said today.


Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of a family of four -- two parents and two children -- trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.


The crash occurred at the intersection of I-4 and route Route 46, police said. The crash site is less than a mile from where Zimmerman shot Martin.


By the time police arrived, two people - including Zimmerman - had already helped the family get out of the overturned car, the sheriff's office said. No one was reported to be injured.


Zimmerman was not a witness to the crash and left after speaking with the deputy, police said.


It's the first known sighting of Zimmerman since he left the courtroom following his acquittal last week on murder charges for the death of Martin. Zimmerman, 29, shot and killed Martin, 17, in Sanford, Fla., on Feb. 26, 2012. The jury determined that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense.

[Sombeech]

George Zimmerman Rescues Victim From Overturned Truck!!!
.

And as expected, in this scenario, msnbc is to describe Zimmerman as a hispanic male.

I wonder if Trayvon would have helped the victims out of their vehicle.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[JP]

He would have spit Skittles at them :haha:

And, as far as profiling, it is not illegal. The only ones that cannot "profile" is law enforcement. Profiling does work in their case.

[Iceaxe]

Not allowing law enforcement to profile is asinine. Its a very effective and valuable tool. The Israeli think we are a bunch of dumb ass for not allowing profiling as they consider it one of their best tools.

Oh look... there goes an Arab into a synagogue with an alarm clock strapped to his chest. Can't stop and ask what the bulge under his jacket is as that is profiling.... that is just stupid.....

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Sombeech]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebu6Yvzs4Ls

[Scott P]

George Zimmerman punched his father-in-law in the nose and threatened to shoot him and his wife, according to 911 tapes of a domestic incident today.

Zimmerman, acquitted in July of the murder of teenager Trayvon Martin, was handcuffed and detained and is being questioned by police in Lake Mary, Fla., according to Lake Mary Police Chief Steve Bracknell. He has not been charged because his wife refused to press charges or give police a sworn statement.

Shellie Zimmerman called 911 shortly after 2 p.m. today and reported that her husband assaulted her father, Colin Morgan, and was waving a gun around and threatening her and her relatives, according to police in Lake Mary, Fla.

Lake Mary police took the call "extremely seriously" and sent eight units, including officers in tactical gear with ballistic shields, to the home, according to Police Chief Steve Bracknell.

In the 911 call, Shellie Zimmerman tells a dispatcher that her husband was in his car raging, adding "he continually has his hand on his gun and he says step closer…" When Shellie Zimmerman trails off the dispatcher asks "step closer and what?" to which Shellie responds "a Step closer and he'd shoot us."

More:

http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmermans-wife-911-tape-am-really-really-205203022--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1 (http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmermans-wife-911-tape-am-really-really-205203022--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1)

[Sombeech]

In related news, nobody cared because this was not perceived as a white hate crime :facepalm1:

[JP]

In Scott's piece, Zimmerman was released without being charged. Something was very wrong with his wife's statements.

[Sombeech]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/shakespeares_sister/gifs/fox_zimmerman_laughs_130703c1.gif