Rig totem for ascending, or use alternate device, with tiblocs?

[kokopelli99]

Would greatly appreciate any suggestions for rigging a totem for emergency ascending with two tiblocs? Would like to be able to easily cinch up rope thru totem and easily lock off as I ascend with tiblocs (one attached with sling to biner on harness and one attached to dual foot loops). If rigging diagram/picture is available, that would also be appreciated. Or, is there a light device other than totem that would make cinching and locking off easy?

[hank moon]

Would greatly appreciate any suggestions for rigging a totem for emergency ascending with two tiblocs? Would like to be able to easily cinch up rope thru totem and easily lock off as I ascend with tiblocs (one attached with sling to biner on harness and one attached to dual foot loops). If rigging diagram/picture is available, that would also be appreciated. Or, is there a light device other than totem that would make cinching and locking off easy?

2 Tiblocs w/appropriate slings suffice to ascend; what is gained by incorporating a Totem?

[kokopelli99]

I like the redundancy for safety, especially if it can be done easily.

[Iceaxe]

I like the redundancy for safety, especially if it can be done easily.

How does adding anther unnecessary component to the system make it safer? Seems to me you are just creating complications.

KISS

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Mountaineer]

I would recommend another type of progress capture device (i.e. micro traxion) with one tibloc or other ascender type. A totem, or other slot type device, will work in a pinch, but many find it a bit harder to use.

[hank moon]

I like the redundancy for safety, especially if it can be done easily.

Well...i doubt it will be easy. Sometimes, speed is safety and this doesn't sound super speedy. But...always fun to experiment, right?

sounds like you've already figured out a combo that works for you, so have you played with it in a relatively safe environment yet? Backyard tree, for example. Post up some video, eh?

[rcwild]

Ascending with the Totem (or any other device) in plaquette/plate/autoblock/stop-n-go mode sucks. One of those "tricks" for use in a pinch when you don't have another option. Much more efficient and safe to use real ascenders or hitches.

[kokopelli99]

Well...i doubt it will be easy. Sometimes, speed is safety and this doesn't sound super speedy. But...always fun to experiment, right?

sounds like you've already figured out a combo that works for you, so have you played with it in a relatively safe environment yet? Backyard tree, for example. Post up some video, eh?

Tried off my balcony. It's hard for me to trust the tiblocs, despite the fact that they worked flawlessly. Guess I'll ditch idea of backing up tiblocs, but I ordered a vt prusik to try as well. IME suggested using Grigri but I don't want to spend money or carry it around.

[oldno7]

Tried off my balcony. It's hard for me to trust the tiblocs, despite the fact that they worked flawlessly. Guess I'll ditch idea of backing up tiblocs, but I ordered a vt prusik to try as well. IME suggested using Grigri but I don't want to spend money or carry it around.

If you don't trust tiblocs, maybe try a Ropeman type device.

[Mountaineer]

Tried off my balcony. It's hard for me to trust the tiblocs, despite the fact that they worked flawlessly. Guess I'll ditch idea of backing up tiblocs, but I ordered a vt prusik to try as well. IME suggested using Grigri but I don't want to spend money or carry it around.

I did the same. Bought 2, then never used them as I didn't trust them. Thought it would ruin my sheath. I then got some technical training from some great instructors, and now carry one wherever I go. I learned the proper techniques that I just didn't get from reading a manual...

[Brian in SLC]

Tried off my balcony. It's hard for me to trust the tiblocs, despite the fact that they worked flawlessly. Guess I'll ditch idea of backing up tiblocs, but I ordered a vt prusik to try as well. IME suggested using Grigri but I don't want to spend money or carry it around.

For ascending of any distance...back up knots are prudent for any device. I sometimes use two carabiners, and, alternate clipping in a quick clove hitch to each one whilst ascending. Clip in, pop the other one out, repeat. Then you always have a back up, and, not a fussy bunch of loops and rope coming up with you.

An USHBA basic, if you can find one, will ride up the rope with you as you ascend (clipped to your belay loop). Easy back up.

You could always use a Prusik (or whatever) on top of one tiblock too. Just push the whole rig up.

[bjp]

If you don't trust tiblocs, maybe try a Ropeman type device.

x2. I always carry two Ropemen 2 (every canyon); they are fantastic for easy, efficient, emergency ascending, and they also work great for emergency haul systems. They're heavier than Tiblocs, but not really all that much bigger. VT is also super cool, but I'd hate to use it for ascending.

[skiclimb3287]

x3. I use a microtraxion (one sweet piece of hardware!) for the harness ascender and a tibloc for the foot loop. I was iffy on the tiblocs until I had formal training with them. I have no concerns now.

A VT works great for many applications...ascending is not one of them, unless tied as an asymmetric prussic. Can certainly use it, but the microtraxion/ropeman make for a much better setup.

YMMV

[Spartacus]

Spend the $ and get the Microtraxion!

[Sandstone Addiction]

What are the differences between the Ropeman 2 and the Micro Traxion?

[ratagonia]

What are the differences between the Ropeman 2 and the Micro Traxion?

The Ropeman2 is a small, light, less expensive thing that kinda works OK as an ascending tool/ropegrab. In some ways it is better than a tibloc, in some ways worse.

The MicroTraxion is a smallish, lightish ascender w/ pulley, kinda expensive, that works great as an ascender or as a hauling pulley.

http://www.store.canyoneeringusa.com/index.php?option=com_rokecwid&Itemid=108#!/~/product/category=2490791&id=10914045

Tom

[kokopelli99]

The Ropeman2 is a small, light, less expensive thing that kinda works OK as an ascending tool/ropegrab. In some ways it is better than a tibloc, in some ways worse.

The MicroTraxion is a smallish, lightish ascender w/ pulley, kinda expensive, that works great as an ascender or as a hauling pulley.

http://www.store.canyoneeringusa.com/index.php?option=com_rokecwid&Itemid=108#!/~/product/category=2490791&id=10914045

Tom

FYI. There is some conflicting info online on the smallest diameter rope which the manufacturer designates as save for use with the Ropeman 2. I emailed the manufacturer and the response was 8 mm.

[bjp]

The Ropeman2 is a small, light, less expensive thing that kinda works OK as an ascending tool/ropegrab. In some ways it is better than a tibloc, in some ways worse.
In what ways is it worse apart from size/weight?

[ratagonia]

In what ways is it worse apart from size/weight?


The Ropeman2 is a small, light, less expensive thing that kinda works OK as an ascending tool/ropegrab. In some ways it is better than a tibloc, in some ways worse.

Tiblocs don't wear out. They sometimes require some, uh, persuasion to grip small ropes.

Ropemans wear out, at least, that is my experience. The small spring gets clogged with sand (not even from use, just from carrying about) and stops working. The very small cable gets frayed, and then the fray ends give you a little nip every time your hand passes by. I found them unsatisfactory.

Also, the Tibloc with a biner in it acts as a pulley, so it can be used as a progress capture device without additional rigging.

The ONLY problem I have with the Tibloc, really, is that it requires persuasion to grip small ropes. When it is being recalcitrant, it is a royal pain in the patootie.

Tom :moses:

[hank moon]

Every device has its advantages and disadvantages. Most points of comparison between Tibloc and Ropeman appeared in an earlier thread:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?30069-Wild-Country-Ropeman

[joeb]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who had a tough time getting tiblocs to work with 8mm ropes. I'll give the "German" setup a shot. Other than that any other suggestions or am I better off with another device with that size rope?

[bjp]

Ropemans wear out, at least, that is my experience. The small spring gets clogged with sand (not even from use, just from carrying about) and stops working.
Fair enough. I haven't had that problem yet, but my primary canyons aren't sandstone.


The very small cable gets frayed, and then the fray ends give you a little nip every time your hand passes by.
Ouch. Again, I haven't had this problem but could easily see it happening. Maybe clip the cable and replace with paracord/similar? The only two things it's good for are pulling back the cam and not dropping the Ropeman while rigging in precarious situations.


Also, the Tibloc with a biner in it acts as a pulley, so it can be used as a progress capture device without additional rigging.
Although not described by the manufacturer, I'm comfortable using the cam pivot on the Ropeman as a pulley in most situations, and that essentially turns it into a slightly less efficient Micro Traxion. When my Ropemen break I'll probably replace them with Micro Traxions, but I'm pretty happy I bought them to start (at 42% the cost of Micro Traxions). Because I haven't had the sand-jamming problem, they have been a huge reliability/ease-of-use step up from Tiblocs. Do you find that the Micro Traxions get sand-jammed also?

[hank moon]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who had a tough time getting tiblocs to work with 8mm ropes. I'll give the "German" setup a shot. Other than that any other suggestions or am I better off with another device with that size rope?

Hi Joeb

A few tips:

Using Tiblocs takes practice. Most of the complaints I've heard stem from users who have not put in the time required to figure out how to use them properly. I generally agree with the folks who say the Ropeman is "better" for beginners who are just learning how to ascend a rope. But the Tibloc does offer advantages over the Ropeman for those who are willing and able to learn how to use it properly.

If you buy some, get out and practice with them (a lot). If you just buy them and keep in your pack or harness until the emergency happens, you might have to learn Tibloc usage the hard way: under duress. No fun, maybe dangerous, you go first.

Notes:

- carabiner choice affects function; for best results on small diameter ropes, use an ungrooved (i.e. not worn) Petzl Attache, Rock Exotica Pirate, or other symmetrical carabiner with round(ish) cross section >/= 12mm.

- when loading the Tibloc, it must be manually pressed against the rope to engage the teeth. Find a comfortable way of moving and holding the device (and carabiner) that makes this happen as naturally as possible; with practice, it will become automatic.

p.s. I'm no fan of the "German" method, nor do I know anyone who is.

[Iceaxe]

p.s. I'm no fan of the "German" method, nor do I know anyone who is.

Hank, what's wrong with the German method? Just curious since you are the feller that showed it to me many moons (har har) ago.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[ratagonia]

Do you find that the Micro Traxions get sand-jammed also?

I have not carried the Microtraxion long enough to have an opinion on this yet, but I carry it every canyon now (certain exceptions).

Tom

[ratagonia]

p.s. I'm no fan of the "German" method, nor do I know anyone who is.

I am a big fan of the "German" method.

Tom

[joeb]

Hank -
Thanks for the advice, you are right, I only spent about an hour with them testing various rope sizes, etc and got to a point where I knew I could use them in a pinch but certainly not fluid on them, particulary on 8mm rope free hanging. Will dust them off this weekend and put some more time in with them.

[hank moon]

Hank, what's wrong with the German method? Just curious since you are the feller that showed it to me many moons (har har) ago.


Well...bad choice of words, perhaps. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, I just prefer the standard method. How 'bout you?