Occam Releasable Anchor

[Mojave Silence]

Intended use: First descents where you have to tie 2 or more long ropes together or anytime you don't have adequate rope for both the pull and rap line. Not intended for ghosting as this system (currently) leaves behind the QL and webbing.
I use 3mm Para Cord for the pull side. It's lightweight, cheap, and strong enough for the intended use. A small rope bag is essential for the para cord, I use a small ammo/utility bag from the army surplus store. To anyone trying this out at home; the system assumes, and works best, with weight on the rap line. It was tested in the garage with a 20lb weight hitched to the rap line. I've tested it in the field with as little as 40' of rope in play. I assume its obvious, but only a wiregate biner will work. I've tried all different shapes of wiregates and they all work well. (even the mini Metolius) Any suggestions for improvement are eagerly awaited.

[Renatomic808]

UN-RUNNABLE.... wait, i mean..

Low Hangin fruit brah..... err..

Respect the time br.... hmm

Strong work! There we go!

[tcott]

How do you think this would affect the system?

64969

[Mojave Silence]

I think the outside gate would get hung up on the QL

[Deathcricket]

Better get a patent on that before Imlay gear nabs it. :haha:

Got a video of it in action?

[Summit2Sea]

The easiest modification to the occam would be to add an anti-cross loading clip to the bottom of the wire gate carabiner. No matter how big or small your figure 8 loop is. It keeps it from riding up the gate if you forget to weight or hold the rope when pulling the para cord and collapsing the system. You could also skip tying the para cord directly to the rope loop and tie directly to the clip. By tying directly to the clip you keep a smooth release. I tied the para cord to the anti clip on the back side of the biner. It gave it a nice angle to pull the wire gate open & releases pretty sweet.

64993

[moab mark]

Need to shoot a video. I see how it would collapse the wire but will the biner pull out each time?

[moab mark]

Just looking at it, it seems like the para cord needs to be tied to the biner right below the wire?

[moab mark]

My bad looks like you tried that.

[Mojave Silence]

Short little video:
Note: 130' of Sterling C-IV tied to the rap side for weight, which equals a little over 4 lbs.
Moab Mark: Biner releases every time so far, couch canyoning and in the field.
Summit2Sea: No need to ever hold the rap line while pulling the para cord, assuming their is rope weight in the system, which there always would be
http://youtu.be/pfonpmEnd_k

[moab mark]

Nice

[bjp]

Wait, after the system is released, the pull cord still needs to be pulled all the way (entire drop length) through the quick link? I suppose the benefit of this system then is that pulling a thin pull cord through the system leaves smaller rope grooves than pulling the rappel rope through the whole system? (in which case, there would only be a benefit for using this system with paracord pull cord) Why not use a pin block or fiddlestick and skip pulling the pull cord through all together?

[Renatomic808]

This is a much more bomber method of setting an anchor, to rappel multiple ropes (passing knots) in my opinion. Unlike other releaseable anchors, if you mess up the setup on this, it won't be painful. This technique isn't meant for ghosting, or eliminating rope grooves. It's meant for getting out of the canyon as safe as possible. Just my thoughts.

[moab mark]

This is a much more bomber method of setting an anchor, to rappel multiple ropes (passing knots) in my opinion. Unlike other releaseable anchors, if you mess up the setup on this, it won't be painful. This technique isn't meant for ghosting, or eliminating rope grooves. It's meant for getting out of the canyon as safe as possible. Just my thoughts.
How are you passing a knot with this set up?

[Renatomic808]

Just think of tying multiple ropes together on the rappel side. Can't be pulled through like the conventional methods of rope-through rappel ring, as the knot gets stuck. There you'd come up with the releasable anchor methods. Fiddle stick, greasy Granny, macrame, Hook of death, etc.. All of which have a higher risk of messing up the setup. As long as the paracord/pull rope on this setup is clean.. no knots.. etc.. your ropes should come down. This Occam method won't release when weighted, and unweighted as well.

[tcott]

So how much paracord are you usually packing with this system? It would take a fairly large drop to merit having to pass a knot, unless you are only carrying shorter ropes.

[bjp]

Just think of tying multiple ropes together on the rappel side.
But this can be done with most retrievable methods as well


Can't be pulled through like the conventional methods of rope-through rappel ring, as the knot gets stuck.
I don't think I understand; what can't be pulled through what, and that's unlike what?


All of which have a higher risk of messing up the setup.
Seems like this might have a lower risk of accidental release (not sure; see below), but it's certainly higher risk of messing up the setup leading to an unretrievable rope.


This Occam method won't release when weighted, and unweighted as well.
It will certainly release when unweighted or it wouldn't be retrievable. If the rappeller unweights the rope, a small amount of force applied to the paracord will release the setup. This is the same as with most other retrievable setups.


This technique isn't meant for ghosting, or eliminating rope grooves. It's meant for getting out of the canyon as safe as possible.
Yeah, I could see that. The scenario is that the second to last drop in a canyon is really big and my ropes have gotten core shots so that I don't have a single length of rope as long as the drop. Everyone else can do a rap-lower but now I have to get down, and we really need the rope for the last drop to get out of the canyon. So, I rig this and the worst-case scenario when I rig it wrong is that we're stuck in the canyon. If I rigged a fiddlestick (for instance -- or most other retrievables appropriate to the situation), the worst-case scenario is more likely that I splat. I could buy that.

Still, I'm not 100% convinced that this setup is less likely to accidentally release than, say, a CEM.

[Mojave Silence]

Why not use a pin block or fiddlestick and skip pulling the pull cord through all together?

I consider the above methods to be marginally safe at best. Any system that can be released under load accidently by the last person on rappel is an accident waiting to happen. That's why I looked for an alternate way of doing it. Deploy the para cord prior to last person and vector it out of the way. Last person can not release my system while on rappel, even the person holding the para cord at the bottom couldn't maliciously or accidently release it unless the rappeler completely off-weighted the rope.

[Mojave Silence]

So how much paracord are you usually packing with this system? It would take a fairly large drop to merit having to pass a knot, unless you are only carrying shorter ropes.

This is designed (recently) mainly for big first descents where nothing is known about the canyon. I designed it with the idea that 2-300 ' ropes would need to be tied together. The added benefit of all that rope weight is that the Occam seems to release even better with more weight on the rap side. The beauty of para cord is its light and cheap. Got a group of 6, everyone carry 200'.

[Mojave Silence]

Seems like this might have a lower risk of accidental release (not sure; see below), but it's certainly higher risk of messing up the setup leading to an unretrievable rope



Occam is so simple to test prior to rappel, pull para cord; if nothing happens it's set up wrong. Less than 5 seconds to test it and reset it.

[tcott]

This is designed (recently) mainly for big first descents where nothing is known about the canyon. I designed it with the idea that 2-300 ' ropes would need to be tied together. The added benefit of all that rope weight is that the Occam seems to release even better with more weight on the rap side. The beauty of para cord is its light and cheap. Got a group of 6, everyone carry 200'.

So I take it the knotted para cord is pulling through the anchor cleanly?

[moab mark]

I would just love to pass a knot 300 ft off the deck.:)

[hank moon]

I love the canyo-nerdy mechanics of this setup, but does it really work in the field?

p.s. Mr. Occam would like folks to stop mis-using his name to describe stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with his shaving gear.

p.p.s. An earlier effort: http://goo.gl/NMjh3

65008

[bjp]

I consider the above methods to be marginally safe at best. Any system that can be released under load accidently by the last person on rappel is an accident waiting to happen.
Well, remember this system can still be released under load -- when the pull load is just slightly larger than the rappel load, it will release. The CEM releases with about the same characteristics -- it requires roughly the same amount of weight on the pull strand as on the rappel strand to release under load. A fiddlestick is also much harder to release under load, but I haven't tested its release characteristics and I suspect you're right that this system has a larger pull-rappel multiplier.

The thing that worries me the most about releasable systems is that I'll accidentally unweight them on rappel and they'll release while (mostly) unweighted. On that dimension, I don't think this system has any special characteristics -- it will still release with a low amount of pull force when unweighted, just like nearly all other releasable systems apart from the macrame.


Last person can not release my system while on rappel, even the person holding the para cord at the bottom couldn't maliciously or accidently release it unless the rappeler completely off-weighted the rope.
This is a characteristic shared with most releasable systems. Even a fiddlestick -- which I suspect is on the lower end of pull force required under load -- will be much, much more difficult to release under load than not under load.

[Mojave Silence]

So I take it the knotted para cord is pulling through the anchor cleanly?
Para cord w/ double fisherman pulls thru standard 5/16 QL with ease.

[Mojave Silence]

I love the canyo-nerdy mechanics of this setup, but does it really work in the field?

Yes, has worked everytime so far, even when the anchor is around a corner w/ multiple friction points on the pull cord

[canyoncaver]

When you pull this carabiner down a 100' drop, do you re-use the carabiner for life-support applications? I'm thinking that you shouldn't, but am willing to hear your argument.

[bjp]

When you pull this carabiner down a 100' drop, do you re-use the carabiner for life-support applications?
Yes, that's fine:
http://fatcanyoners.org/bush-guide/dropped-carabiners/

[tcott]

When you pull this carabiner down a 100' drop, do you re-use the carabiner for life-support applications? I'm thinking that you shouldn't, but am willing to hear your argument.

I would use a dropped biner over something that looks like this and I have seen these used.

65012

[Mojave Silence]

When you pull this carabiner down a 100' drop, do you re-use the carabiner for life-support applications? I'm thinking that you shouldn't, but am willing to hear your argument.

If you have 2x the para cord for the drop, you can lower said biner and rap line to the ground. If not, yes, I'd continue to use it. There's no more or less impact on the biner than a standard 100' pull/drop.

[canyoncaver]

I would use a dropped biner over something that looks like this and I have seen these used.

65012

Yeah, I wouldn't use that either. Just because you have seen something done does not make it a good idea.

[canyoncaver]

There's no more or less impact on the biner than a standard 100' pull/drop.

Actually there is quite a bit of difference. On a biner block pull, the biner is basically in your hand when the end of the rope finally pulls through the ring at the top. In this system (with only 1x paracord) the biner falls all the way from the top of the drop. Whether or not you think dropped biners are safe is a different matter, but saying that impact on the biner is the same as in a biner block is not correct.

[hank moon]

I would use a dropped biner over something that looks like this and I have seen these used.

65012

great for 'biner block duty - just remember to spray paint it pink :)

[Mojave Silence]

Actually there is quite a bit of difference. On a biner block pull, the biner is basically in your hand when the end of the rope finally pulls through the ring at the top. In this system (with only 1x paracord) the biner falls all the way from the top of the drop. Whether or not you think dropped biners are safe is a different matter, but saying that impact on the biner is the same as in a biner block is not correct.
Agreed, you are correct-my bad. If anyone is worried about a biner contacting something on the drop, just tie the end of the para cord to the end of the rap line. Lower rap line until the biner is within reach, DC it, then retrieve system.

[DesertDuke]

This set up is very intriguing to me and I have to bump it as the 2013 canyoneering season is drawing down, hoping for any update. Are some of you still using this and is it still working great??

[Mojave Silence]

This set up is very intriguing to me and I have to bump it as the 2013 canyoneering season is drawing down, hoping for any update. Are some of you still using this and is it still working great??

Yes, works fine.

I re-read the whole thread and I'm confused as to how some think it can be accidentally released while off-weighting it on rappel. Unlike the fiddlestick etc, an unwanted pendulum while on rappel will not have any effect on this system. As long as those already on the ground vector the pull side out of the rappelers way, it can only be released if someone on the ground WANTS to release it. You are rappelling on a closed biner.

[DesertDuke]

First, thanks again for sharing this! I am still very intrigued. I did some "couch" experiments of my own using various sizes of cord and even tying bulky knots that ride on top of the rope. The knot in your video is nice and tight against the rope. With thicker cords, a bulky knot, and using a rap ring I did get it to hang up and the end of the 'biner did not want to follow all the way through (see below) The same setup worked with a rapide, even with all of those confounding factors. The paracord worked for everything.....rapide, rap ring, bulky knot, weird angles, etc....hard to get it to fail with paracord. I had about 3 lbs of rope hanging on the other end for all of this. The below pictures are of what one of the hang-ups looked like, and a quick shot of the cords I was using. (edit: after messing with it some more after the post I have had some hang ups with the rap ring and the paracord. Rapide all the way for this method or at least for me)

70741

Below are cords; paracord on the left, two larger that it worked with and on the right some bluewater line I tried that was too thick/stiff to work

70742

[Mojave Silence]

Interesting. I never tested it with a rap ring, I wonder if one of the mini Metolius wire gates would work though

[DesertDuke]

My ring was hanging from a biner and not webbing, which is another "wrench" so to speak. Just testing the waters as I think this is such an interesting idea.

[ratagonia]

I guess I'm unclear on the POINT of this system. Only for when you F up and don't bring enough rope? Occam's razor suggests an easier solution: bring enough rope.

I see a big problem in having the system be generally useful, as it seems the knot and carabiner could easily get caught on stuff during the retrieval.

Admittedly, I have a fondness for systems that are "too clever by half", but I am trying to grasp when this system would be useful. Please clarify?

Tom

[Renatomic808]

Personally, I'd use this system in situations where:

For some bad luck, ropes would get stuck on every rap above.

Yes I F-upped, and didn't bring enough rope. This breaks down into more sub-categories.
First descent. The drops were waaaaaay bigger than expected. Had to tie ropes together and pass knots. (We have drops that are 600ft+)
First descent. There were waaaaaaay more drops than expected. In a tiny route with a distance <1 mile, there were 20+ rappels. The 150ft of webbing we brought wasn't enough. We had to cut into our ropes to build anchors. Thus leaving us with nothing but ropes that aren't long enough to finish off that 300ft+ rappel.

Doing a toggle system may work better for retrieval, but comes with risk of releasing the anchor, and dying or getting injured.. Some of us may want to take that risk. Others would not.

Having another system like this just gives you another option to get you out alive. I like having the knowledge, and ability to choose which system works best, for a unique situation.

[Mojave Silence]

From the You-Tube video:

"This anchor was developed for use in Canyoneering when you are forced to tie two ropes together to complete a rappel. Specifically, for first descents with unknown rappel lengths. I used 3mm para cord on the pull side, as it's lightweight and cheap. For the sake of the video I attached 130' of Sterlings C-IV rope to simulate weight on the rappel side, which aids in the correct functioning of the system."

[oval]

Interesting. Love the idea.

One improvement: use a wiregate biner that has a shrouded/recessed nose so that the pull of the biner over the quick-link is smoother than with a notched nose. This one is the one I am thinking of:
71102

Additionally, I am curious why you would need this? The only thing it seems to get around is 2 ropes tied together. Otherwise you would simply block this with a knot or biner block and use the paracord to do a normal pull, right?

[Mojave Silence]

Para cord = light and cheap. If ya have 2x the rap length and a tricky pull where ya don't want to risk sticking a rope, this system allows you to vector rap line clear of any obstructions and land it on the ground wherever you want it.

[Sombeech]

related:
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?75347-retrievable-anchor-for-long-rappels