Cameras: Go Pro Hero vs Lumix

[Jolly Green]

I don't own any sort of waterproof camera and am in the market. I've found I rarely pull out my phone or camera in the wet canyons and would like something that is easily accessible. I've read about the Go Pro Hero 3 and the 2 Lumix models but realistically don't care what type of point and click brand- looking to spend ~$300. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the benefits/negatives of each. My goal is mainly to get decent photos and to not have to change camera settings all day long, the video feature would be more of a secondary benefit. Since the lighting in canyons can vary so much, I'm wondering which one performs better going from light to dark over and over. Any input is much appreciated.

[Iceaxe]

The GoPro is great for video and poor for pictures. If your main objective is the take descent pictures the GoPro is NOT what you want. The ability of GoPro to take pictures is more of a side benefit. In fact I turned the picture taking ability off in my GoPro so it only opperates video ON and video OFF. If I want a picture I just grap a screen shot from the video.

I suggest you look at real waterproof camera's if you want quality pictures.

[Deathcricket]

Not familiar with the Lumix, but my guess is the GoPro would take better video and the Lumix would take better still shots. My experience is the Gopro is 1st a video recorder and taking snapshots is secondary. the functionality sux, especially the "burst mode" it's better to just record the event in 60fps and go back and edit the stills you want. Trying to capture 3 action shots is nearly impossible.

Edit: I see Ice beat me by 5 mins... Opening multiple tabs and reading threads in between work tasks, sorry........

Edit 2: Here is the waterproof point and shoot I use. I'm very happy with it, shockproof, waterproof, freezeproof, and takes nice pics so far.
http://www.staples.com/Olympus-Tough-TG-320-Digital-Camera-Red/product_749418?cid=PS:GooglePLAs:749418&KPID=749418 $180ish

[MrAdam]

I have used the Panasonic Lumix TS3 for the past 2 years. It has held up well thru close to 100 canyons. I have dropped it countless times, it spent 3 hours underwater after I dropped it and couldnt find it and it still works great. That being said, I find the picture quality lacking compared to the Olympus cameras. Personally, when it is time to buy a new camera, I am gonna go with the Olympus TG2. Better pics and you have the ability to add/change lenses

http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-Stylus-Digital-Camera-Optical/dp/B00AQ2BWP4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364493354&sr=8-1&keywords=olympus+tg-2

[yetigonecrazy]

GoPros are good for rappin' and general action shots. They aren't great phor photos. They do do a sequence but its not really worth it. Buy a still camera that has video functions, it sounds like that would work way better for your needs (more photos than vid) than the GoPro (more vids than still).

[Jolly Green]

Thanks for all the input guys. Looks like I need to check out a few Olympus cameras. Any other camera models that have worked well for anyone?

[jman]

I have a Olympus tough and it works decent for mediocre pics, however, what I find just as important to a POS is the location on your bag where you will stash it. On short canyons where not a lot of gear is needed, I'll use my dakine backpack which has a hipbelt pocket and I put the touch camera inside there and it makes it soooo easy to pull out quickly.

[spinesnaper]

I love my canon S90 (newer versions are now on the market). I use it in a water case. Unfortunately the water case seems to last just a few canyons before being trashed (i.e. scratched to hell). Then I am back on ebay. To me, the gopro is all about the action video.

Ken

[maarten.1975]

Did you consider the Sony TSC-DX10 (or follow-up versions).
I have the DSC-TX10 myself, and if you are a little bit careful with your equipment, it works perfect. The weakest point is the mechanical lens-cover. This one doesn't like sand, however if you wash the camera regularly in streams or pools if it is sandy, it works perfectly for me. Makes great pictures (as well in low light conditions), and it is nice and small. I used it for my last 3 holidays, fantastic!

Good luck with your choice!

[JP]

I've always used Olympus SP cameras as the go to ones. The ones that cost right around $300 and could slide off the truck's center console at 50mph and not have to worry about the impact. Dirt conditions, didn't matter. And if it did break, I could justify that $300 (Never had one break) versus my Nikon D300S. The Olympus goes with me for the ride everywhere, it's always with me. The Nikon goes when it's a pic taking day and or I have something specific to shoot. It doesn't hang out on the center console.

Some of the reasons I like the SP's, they have a great optical zoom range. They still utilize AA batteries which I use Energizer AA rechargeables and an Energizer AA/AAA car charger/house charger. I have this thing in the truck and it never leaves it. You can tell I have had it for sometime now :haha: The SP-350 that is pictured I believe was my first or second SP camera. This one only used two AA's and if you were using this camera all day, you would need another set of batteries. The other SP-590 I have a pic of is the current one for me. They're in the 800 model range now. A few years old and a few models deep, it's time to start thinking replacing it. It uses four AA's and they last all day. Again, having the charger means not ever having to worry.

I bought the charger when I had that SP-350 that just took two AA's, first issue. The second issue I had with the Olympus was my current one, the SP-590 on Sport Mode. The Sport Mode left the pics somewhat grainy. I bought the same camera for my sister at the same time, same graininess. Wasn't horrible, but enough for me not to use it. So, since about 2006 I've been using this model faithfully with that one main complaint. I was thinking about trying out Nikon's similar point and shoot (CoolPix L820), still up in the air. I am in the market to get a GoPro for the video end of things and possibly some stills. I'll need that for times I cannot operate a camera.

64791

[Sombeech]

I agree if you're looking for a great high res shot to possibly frame up and hang on the wall afterwards, get a real camera.

But if you're looking for a decent action shot that maybe you don't have time to have everybody pose, or you're looking to catch a shot of something you don't know exactly when it will happen, or a video you'd like to grab a frame from, the GoPro is still my favorite way to go.

The examples below are from the 1280 X 720 (720) video mode, and this is not the highest it can go. The Hero3 Black Edition can even shoot in 2704 X 1440 mode but at fewer frames per second.

I grabbed these frames using VLC media player. Paused it on the best position and took a snapshot of the frame. These top ones were from the Hero1

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=59845&d=1349642053

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=59847&d=1349643816

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=59848&d=1349643871

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=64885&d=1364832175



http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60563&d=1351286395



You never know when....

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60569&d=1351286404





These two were shot in 1080 mode on the Hero3 with much better Low Light performance

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62210&d=1356369758

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62208&d=1356369671

[Rob L]

Sombeech, can you remind me of the video link of your "front wheel incident"?

A similar thing happened to a friend a few weeks ago, although in his case, he was on a carbon bike on tarmac, and the pump went through the front wheel spokes [ouch]...no video in his case, but I promised him I would show him your video! He's still incapacitated with a broken collar bone, but he was wearing a helmet!

Thanks,

Rob

[Sombeech]

Sombeech, can you remind me of the video link of your "front wheel incident"?

A similar thing happened to a friend a few weeks ago, although in his case, he was on a carbon bike on tarmac, and the pump went through the front wheel spokes [ouch]...no video in his case, but I promised him I would show him your video! He's still incapacitated with a broken collar bone, but he was wearing a helmet!

Thanks,

Rob

Sure, here it is


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUBsG64HOyE&safe=active

[Rob L]

Thanks! Quick response....are you now fully recovered?

[Sombeech]

Yeah, just a flesh wound :mrgreen:

[mcweyen]

I know a guy that did this on a road bike over a small bump at 40mph. He now has all fake teeth and his face has been worked on something like 10 times and it still looks messed up. No bueno

Thank goodness for my 15mm through axel!

[JP]

I agree if you're looking for a great high res shot to possibly frame up and hang on the wall afterwards, get a real camera.
But, having a camera that takes decent pics and great video...GoPro is the way! Nothing like a good dual purpose.

[tjdowling]

My two cents - Pick a camera that takes good HDR photos. The difficulty with canyon shots is that you frequently have both light and dark areas in your frame. The camera's sensor can't handle that large of a dynamic range. So you end up with very dark shadows or blown out bright spots depending on where your camera metered the light. An HDR shot will take three photos for you; one will be correctly exposed, one under exposed (which will bring out the details in the bright spots), and one over exposed (which will bring out the details in the dark spots). The camera will then combine those shots to make a photo that better captures the full dynamic range of light. The disadvantage to this is that you have to remain very still why this happens.

My second suggestion is to find a camera that has low noise at high ISO settings (ISO = sensitively of the sensor). So when you're in that dark canyon and you turn to a night preset to take a picture, you don't get a grainy looking picture. The graininess is the noise. You also need to brace the camera against something during this type of shot because the camera will leave the shutter open for longer than you can hold still. Probably a good technique for an HDR shot, too.

To clarify real quick, you don't want a camera that can do really high ISO. After about 1600 or 3200 in a nice camera, you're going to get the graininess no matter what.

Sorry, probably more theory than you wanted without a specific recommendation. But you have to have the right tools for the job. If you know some technical stuff, that can only help you capture a better picture. If you made me make a recommendation, I'd say find a Cannon or Nikon. There's a reason those companies are considered the best in the business.


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[Jolly Green]

Thanks for the input everyone. Thanks for the reminder to double check my front tire before my next ride, Beech. Gnarly spill. TJ, I've tried to read a bit about the topics you brought up but each company markets their features so differently and uses their own acronym for everything, so it's often hard tease out the true differences. I also read a review that said the cameras with higher megapixels (specifically 16) are worse for use in darker areas (ie canyons) than a 12 or 14 megapixel camera. Any thoughts or preference?

[tjdowling]

It is true that more megapixels doesn't necessarily mean a better picture. Companies advertise more megapixels in their cameras because that's about the only spec the layperson has heard of. Then they go and throw in 18 crappy megapixels. However, unless you're looking to print out a huge picture, you don't need need a ton of megapixels to begin with. The HP website says that an 8 Mp shot will give you a very high quality 8x10 inch printed photo.

It doesn't make since to me that more megapixels in a canyon means a lower quality picture. Again, it would only be worse if you were comparing it to a higher quality, lower Mp camera.

You're right, every company has their own name for what is essentially the same thing, which makes it hard to compare specs. That being said, HDR is a generic term everyone uses. Dpreview dot com might help you sort out the other specs. What you can bet on, though, is that generally speaking, the newest generation of cameras a company puts out is going to have a better sensor that reduces noise (which is what you care about in dark canyons) and increases the range of brightness (the dynamic range I was talking about in my last post) the sensor can handle. They will also likely bump up the Mp. I'm guessing 8 Mp would be good enough for what you want. But tech has come so far that you might be hard pressed to find a camera with that few. So stick with the newest model and a brand name. I personally prefer Canon. Their D20 looks like it gets good reviews. You can get it for less than $300 on Amazon. It has a DIGIC 4 processor which isn't their newest chip. However, they just released it, so they probably won't be updating the D20 with the DIGIC 5 anytime soon. So your dark shots will likely show some noise unless you manually turn it down to 100 and put it on a tripod. You're probably talking about a shot that will take a few second to capture then. That might not be practical nor something you care to do. It also has GPS built in which I think is cool, but really just a gimmick if you don't geotag your photos.

I haven't really looked at what other companies have to offer. I'm kind of a Canon fanboy. Hope that all made sense. Good luck.


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[Jolly Green]

Great input. Thanks TJ.