U.S. Energy independence forever?

[Iceaxe]

I'm an engineer and do a ton of work with the coal industry so I keep up on Oil, Coal, Tar Sands and Oil Shale.... anyhoo... this looks really promising... I put it in general because I figure it would be of interest to everyone, particularly those in the coal (Utah) states. I'll move it to enviromental if it's an issue.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]The best economic thing about coal is it has the highest BTU content of any fuel on the market.Coal: the cleanest energy source there is?By Gene J. Koprowski (http://www.foxnews.com/archive/author/gene-j-koprowski/index.html)
Published February 20, 2013


Researchers have discovered a stunning new process that takes the energy from coal without burning it -- and removes virtually all of the pollution.
The clean coal technique was developed by scientists at The Ohio State University, with just $5 million in funding from the federal government, and took 15 years to achieve.

[phatch]

So I've heard that coal ash is relatively radioactive and unregulated as radioactive waste. Any authoritative clarification for me?

[Iceaxe]

I could go into great detail on the radioactivity of fly ash... but bottom line its very small and not a health issue.

And with the method above there would be no fly ash as we are not burning the coal.

FWIW - we currently make cement from coal fly ash which is removed by scrubbers in the system.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[JP]

I remember growing up and having a coal burning stove, although back in the day it wasn't clean, it far heated the house better than wood. Lasted longer, burned hotter. When I was back in Connecticut, we made several trips to a closed coal mine in Pennsylvania that was reopened as an off-road park (Paragon). The amount of coal that this place still had was quite a bit. Driving down I-81 and seeing the blasted walls that allowed this interstate to cut through, cut through coal. Even back then you could see the hit the coal industries were beginning to take by environMENTALists. Now, it's unbelievable the hits they are taking. Even they want energy independence, but by the type of their choosing.

The funny part was a coal mine was so bad for the earth, an environmental nightmare, it would never be able to make a comeback. EnvironMENTALists wanted to shut down this ORV park because of our environmental impact. You can see where the old grade level was three hundred plus feet higher in some places. This was an underground coal mine and a strip mine. Trees, bushes, wooded areas all came back to this area along with wildlife from deer, turkey and timber rattlers. It was sold and was to become a cargo-type airport, but the land still sits collecting wildlife.

[rockgremlin]

Don't like coal? Get rid of electricity. Simple as that.

You might be able to run a house (or even a cluster of houses) in a remote location (Goblin Valley Ranger Station I believe does this) with solar and/or wind, but you can't run larger urban areas this way. Big cities gobble up too much electricity.

[Byron]

Of course it's promising, and hopefully it'll become realized. But more than likely the solar/wind crowd will still oppose it...simply because it's not solar/wind and they'd still have to dig it out of the ground anyway.

Solar and wind is just no feasible, at least on a large scale. Even the most thick headed enviro wacko knows this...but they have political power right now and if we're lucky, perhaps the energy companies can come up with more and more ways to produce electricity like this. Fossil fuel "alternatives" of fossil fuels. It may be the only real chance we have. Otherwise, prepare to pay double or more to control the climate in your house or business as they close down more and more power plants and build these giant solar and wind farms...financed with high taxes and money borrowed from China. Hooray!!!!

For those that are convinced that humans are going to suck the planet dry in short order, that may sound like a great idea...I'm certainly not on board with that, as I think this whole anthropogenic global warming is complete nonsense. I'm all for energy alternatives, but hardly in panic mode about it...I think the free market should vet these things will the goal of "real clean energy" being a hundred years from now.

Too many people are suffering from this panic ideology, especially the poor.

[JP]

Solar and wind is just no feasible, at least on a large scale.
Too many people are suffering from this panic ideology, especially the poor.
Exactly, it doesn't work on a large scale. Back in the 70's solar was going to be the new energy. Forty years of testing and the only thing it's good for is personal use. Heat your pool, keep a light on that American flag, open your gates and possibly take you off the grid.

The poor. I may not necessarily believe are suffering from a panic ideology. They are the ones that are hooked into the notion that big government is a good thing. They get what they want through government, so whatever government does, they blindly go for the ride. Present day slaves.

[Iceaxe]

The poor. I may not necessarily believe are suffering from a panic ideology. They are the ones that are hooked into the notion that big government is a good thing.

Poor people are not poor because they don't have money. Poor people are poor because they don't know how to manage money... or to put it simply... they are to dumb to manage money.... which can be extracted out to they are to dumb to manage their life.

:cool2:

The funny thing is all the EnvironMENTALists™ are now screaming we need more nuclear power. Back in the late 70's and early 80's when I was designing the structural steel for nuclear plants the tree huggers and forest fairies where protesting every one of our job sites.

FWIW: With regards to Fly Ash... what they are saying is if you stood next to a pile of coal fly ash you’d probably get a bigger radiation dose than if you stood next to radioactive waste from a neclear plant that is adequately shielded. Holy shit!!! who would have guessed?!? Perhaps that is why they shield the crap... to protect people from the deadly radiation it emits. But fly ash doesn’t need to be shielded. It needs to be disposed of responsibly in a proper landfill... or turned into Portland Cement.

Here is a good article on the Radioactive Fly Ash controversy.
http://www.cejournal.net/?p=410

[JP]

EnvironMENTALists™
:lol8:

Stepping out, I have to educate myself in that ash controversy when I get back

[Byron]

The poor. I may not necessarily believe are suffering from a panic ideology. They are the ones that are hooked into the notion that big government is a good thing. They get what they want through government, so whatever government does, they blindly go for the ride. Present day slaves.I hear ya, and there are plenty that are abusing the system and will vote to keep the gravy going...

However, there are plenty more that aren't leeching from the system. Personally, I've been lucky. I'm not a multi-millionaire, but I've done quite well and charge a very high hourly wage...so gasoline, food, insurance and energy costs, will stinging a bit as they go up, don't bit too hard for me.

But I consider that guy, who looks about my age, driving a forklift at Costco for $14 an hour, or the one working at the auto parts counter, or selling just about anything retail...lots of those people don't qualify for the government gravy and the price of living has just got to hurt like hell. Those are the "poor" I'm talking about.

Things were cheap and it was all so much easier when I came of age (the 80s)...gas didn't cost half a weeks pay, there were no computers or other hand held devices that were necessary that cost $100 to operate, food and energy were manageable and the opportunity to SAVE, which is what it all boils down to, was there...much more than today.

These days, you need to pull in $25 an hour if you have any hope of having reliable transportation, paying for it and the basics, rent or mortgage, stuff to facilitate your hobbies or pastimes, and also to save and invest.

Things have changed...and the knuckleheads in the government forcing these people to shell out more is tragic, really. The government should be doing things that help LOWER the cost of living, not RAISE it.

Drill baby, drill!!! An explosion of growth in the energy sector would have been just the ticket to kick start everything...it's a damn shame Romney was rejected.

It seems to me that seeing the entire Mojave Desert (at least) as a sea of solar arrays is a pretty shitty trade off.

[Iceaxe]

The problem with poor people is how they think.... every last one of them will trade their future and their children's future for gratification today.

This is what scared me about the last election... poor people have learned they can vote themselves a raise today with no regard for tomorrow.

Which is also exactly what scares the shit out of me with what currently going on with the Constitution... it's all the same mind set.

:soapbox:

[Scott P]

These days, you need to pull in $25 an hour if you have any hope of having reliable transportation, paying for it and the basics, rent or mortgage, stuff to facilitate your hobbies or pastimes, and also to save and invest.

Really? This year is the first that I made that much an hour and I haven't considered myself poor at all (nor do I have excessive debts, etc.). $25 an hour is actually a pretty good wage for most. In most of the country, you can actually live quite good on less than that (unless you have 8 kids or something-I only have two).


every last one of them will trade their future and their children's future for gratification today.

I agree. That is a big problem, especially among those who don't manage money wisely.

But I also agree that the above quote is what many of the anti-environmental crowd is doing as well. Myself, I am for balance, but different people have different ideas of how much balance there should be.

PS, as for myself, I'd be thrilled if this clean coal technology really is viable. Besides, I live in a coal town anyway.

[Iceaxe]

$25 an hour is actually a pretty good wage for most. In most of the country, you can actually live quite good on less than that

I agree... being poor is not about how much you make.... it's about how much you spend.... it's about how much you invest in your future.

The best investment anyone can make is to invest in themselves.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Iceaxe]

But I also agree that the above quote is what many of the anti-environmental crowd is doing as well.

I agree with that.

We need balance, at least until all our magical beans begin to sprout ;-)



Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Bootboy]

Poor people are soooo gross.
(Rolls eyes and chomps gum)

[rockgremlin]

We need balance, at least until all our magical beans begin to sprout ;-)


Great quote -- and those sprouts will grow, it just takes time. It took Ben Franklin a looong time before that lightning bolt hit his kite that infamous night. :haha: