So how much will my paycheck drop???

[accadacca]

Yikes!!! WTF man???

http://mjcdn.motherjones.com/preset_51/fiscal-cliff630.jpg

http://www.gobankingrates.com/system/uploads/what-is-the-fiscal-cliff-300x232.jpeg

[Byron]

A couple months ago, a whole bunch of people in this country decided this is exactly what they want. The thing is, it's not a failure to communicate...it's an outright battle of ideology.

What irks me the most is the complete disregard for the pubic...average people, older folks, investors, people who really rely on the tax returns. We're all hostages in this thing, pawns for these people. I think it literally criminal that they're allowed to do this. It's a pathetic three ring circus.

Someone needs to come up with a working plan, but no one there has the balls to do it. When the shit hits the fan, who's gonna take the hit? Government workers or the private sector? Retirees and welfare queens? The military? Somethings gotta give...and raising taxes to collect nickles and dimes sure wont' cut it.

But then again, what the hell do I know? Perhaps these guys are geniuses and they've got it all figured out...right?

[JONBOYLEMON]

Long ago after sending a hundereds emails to my representative, I realized, that until I give him $, he could care less about me. Unfortunately I really do feel that way. Seldom is there a soul that is not lost once they become a politician.

Look at our man Horiuchi or whatever his name is, what a DIRTBAG!!!!!!

[kd7kmp]

As it stands right now, if no changes are made and we go off the so-called fiscal cliff, my taxes will increase by...are you ready?...$6000! Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal is either naive or already living off the government.

Kevin

[accadacca]

As it stands right now, if no changes are made and we go off the so-called fiscal cliff, my taxes will increase by...are you ready?...$6000! Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal is either naive or already living off the government.

Kevin

Yikes! :scared:

[accadacca]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYc9Fc90U7w&sns=em

[Iceaxe]

Just a thought.... but sooner or later we will be forced to cut spending, raise taxes and start paying down our National debit, which is what the fiscal cliff does. The sooner folks understand this the easier it's going to be. There is no way we can sustain the course we are currently on.

The reason this fiscal cliff was built into the system was so it would kick in automatically and no one would take the blame as both sides can blame the other side.

I think it's funny folks buy into this fiscal cliff bullshit.... it was done by design to stop the financial bleeding of this country.



:cool2:

[Byron]

So here I am, basking in the glow of the Broncos win, watching the news and getting a pretty clear picture of what is happening in regards to this...

So it appears there will be no deal. Obama says that next month, with the new Congress, the Democrats will craft a bill that give a tax break to those who earn under 250K...negating that one part of the "cliff". The Republicans will have to be forced to oppose it.

Obama wants this, and he's going to get it, one way or another. Nothing gets done without his signature...and there's no way he'll give in on this. He can't...he'd loose face, big time.

Like I said earlier, it's too bad the rest of us have to dangle in the breeze. Yeah, this is just the kind of thing businesses what to encourage them to spend, invest and grow. New hires? Pay raises? More benefits? Liberalism sucks. The people with the lowest incomes are going to suffer for this...add in Obamacare on top of it. What a friggin' mess...

A month ago I had a meeting with my accountant to plan this out. I'll be paying less in taxes this year than I have in a long time...they forced me to work every available angle, and anyone making a decent buck will be doing the same damn thing. Nice going, Dumbocrats.

Ice, I understand what your saying, but I would prefer to see one big plan that gets into the meat without all this dramatic BS. I think that's what people want when they say, "Get together, compromise, get something constructive done". Works for me...I make big decisions and go! Jerkin' around just wastes time.

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: even if we go over the fiscal cliff the United States public debt would continue to grow.... the fiscal cliff is just the first bite we are all going to have to take out of this giant turd sandwich. Enjoy the meal because everyone is going to have to take more than this one bite to fix the problem.

If not we will soon be paddling our canoe up shit creek behind the Greeks.

:popcorn:

[Iceaxe]

Ice, I understand what your saying, but I would prefer to see one big plan that gets into the meat without all this dramatic BS.

As I said, the fiscal cliff is the "big plan". As it is currently set up the Republicans and Democracts each take an equal hit. There is no real intention on either side to stop us from going over, that is just a dog and pony show for the media.

Look at how the cliff is set up and you will notice both sides still get to keep their pet projects. Social Security, Medicaid, federal pay, federal pensions and veterans benefits, are exempted from the spending cuts.

[oldno7]

I'm just amazed that when people see the US, 16trillion dollars in debt, somehow they think they won't have to pay more.......

So lets raise our debt ceiling and borrow some more.:crazy:

[accadacca]

A deal is in sight...hmmm. "Deal.. "

[tallsteve]

Looks like no deal. Here's my take. This is going to hurt- a lot! I'm not just talking about me and my family. From what I understand, my taxes will increase by $2,500 to $3,000. That's about the amount of my discretionary funds for the year. Stuff like going out to dinner, movies, nearby vacations and trips, shopping, etc. You get the idea. I don't have another three grand to take from somewhere else for these things. I'm guessing millions of Americans are in the same boat as me. If we, collectively, don't have any discretionary funds anymore, what's going to happen to all the businesses we would normally give our business to? I'm guessing we'll see many, many of them close their doors which will cause unemployment to go through the roof. I hate to be all doom-and-gloom but, that's what I think's going to happen. My 2 cents. Oh, wait. The IRS just grabbed that, too.

[jman]

You are all missing the secret to recovery - SPEND!!

And the ultimate secret to getting out of debt is, obviously (emphasis), spend more than you earn!

[Bootboy]

I'm still busy totaling up all the hikes, between payroll tax, HSA contribution taxes, my insurance premiums, and so on... Lets just say that's a lot of gear I won't be buying...

[tallsteve]

I'm still busy totaling up all the hikes, between payroll tax, HSA contribution taxes, my insurance premiums, and so on... Lets just say that's a lot of gear I won't be buying...

My point exactly!

[accadacca]

I guess a deal was done early this morning that holds off the increases for at least 2 months. Here is a fiscal cliff calculator: http://www.paycheckcity.com/fiscalcliff/cliff.html

[Iceaxe]

I guess a deal was done early this morning

There is no deal yet, it just passed the Senate, now it has to go to the House.

The Senate deal just kicks the problem down the road to be dealt with again in a couple of months.

Sent using Tapatalk

[Iceaxe]

Looks like the House will demand more spending cuts and send it back to the Senate.

:popcorn:

Sent using Tapatalk

[Iceaxe]

See ya'll back here March 1st for anther installment of financial roulette.

Sent using Tapatalk

[accadacca]

Let the spending continue! :haha:

[PunchKing]

I don't understand the issue obviously but, "we the people" have voted to create a ton of social programs, welfare, "public" healthcare, and others. How can we not raise taxes? If we don't want to raise taxes we need to cut spending. If I lived my life like the government I would probably be in prison. Of course it is going to hurt, sooner or later we are all going to either have to pay more taxes or receive less from the government.

I suppose the alternative is we could all decide how much in taxes we "should" pay and just refuse to give the IRS any more. Taxes are voluntary right?

Edited to say - doesn't this whole thread belong in the political section that I never read?

[Rob L]

You are all missing the secret to recovery - SPEND!!

It worked in Germany after the 1929 crash...and in the USA in the late 40's / early 50's (all those freeways).



I don't understand the issue obviously but, "we the people" have voted to create a ton of social programs, welfare, "public" healthcare, and others. How can we not raise taxes? If we don't want to raise taxes we need to cut spending. If I lived my life like the government I would probably be in prison. Of course it is going to hurt, sooner or later we are all going to either have to pay more taxes or receive less from the government.
Welcome to the democratic "one-man-one-vote" world! :crazy:

[Iceaxe]

I don't understand the issue obviously but, "we the people" have voted to create a ton of social programs, welfare, "public" healthcare, and others. How can we not raise taxes? If we don't want to raise taxes we need to cut spending. If I lived my life like the government I would probably be in prison. Of course it is going to hurt, sooner or later we are all going to either have to pay more taxes or receive less from the government.

First item... I have left this thread in general because it has been friendly and educational (including to myself). If it turns ugly it will be moved, or one of the other mods might move it....

Anyhoo..... comparing the Federal Government's budget to your family budget is not really apples to apples..... The Fed's have two really interesting advantages going for it that your family does not.... first item is most of the money the Fed's barrow they barrow from other Federal programs (something like 90% of the barrowed money), so the interest being paid is really being paid to its self.

Second item is the Fed's can just print more money when they want to plug a hole. The down side to just printing more money devalues the dollar and causes inflation, so sometimes running a deficit is good if it holds inflation down.... all of this really only works because the US is considered the most stable government on the planet and the fact that they will never let themselves go broke (most of the printed US money is actually held outside the USA). The problem is if folks ever lose faith in the US government the whole house of cards crashes to the ground (see Greece).

This is why the "spend more" and "trickle down" and similar economics work. When folks spend more there is a larger tax bases, more faith in the US economy (dollar raises against foreign currency), yada, yada....

That is the extremely simplified version of things... But now you can see why your family budget and the Federal budget are apples and oranges...

:cool2:

[Byron]

"we the people" have voted to create a ton of social programs, welfare, "public" healthcare, and others. How can we not raise taxes? The way I see it, that's the problem...too many people ASSUME that taxes have to be raised to pay for all this crap. I think the opposite...they are collecting WAY TOO MUCH MONEY FROM US.

Social Security, welfare, food stamps, disability, unemployment payments, lavish parties and vacations, Cadillac pension plans, studying monkeys on cocaine, investing in companies bound to go bankrupt, corruption, cronyism...What can I do about it? NOTHING!!! And neither can anyone reading this...we're all being played, and it's a shame to hear some say that "We asked for it, therefore this is what we get and we have to play along". Wrong, we asked for something, and we're getting something completely different....right up the poop shoot.

If they would spend just a fraction of the time and money cleaning up the waste, corruption and moochers from the system that they spend on themselves, things would be different. But, like I said...I'm helpless to make a difference just like you are. If I can make myself feel better about it at all, I'll vote for the guy that's talking about cutting spending...because those are about the only two sensible words I hear coming out of Washington, ever...certainly not "raise more taxes".

It's extortion...and if you don't comply completely, they'll seize your assets (if you have any) and/or throw your ass in prison. If they raise my taxes, I'll pay it. The alternative is quite undesirable...having some strangers coming to my door with badges and robbing from me what I've worked so hard for. Otherwise, I refuse to listen to these morons and go along with the program.

Anyone that convinces themselves that "they need it" is a fool, in my opinion. But, as they say, everyone has their bag, man.

[PunchKing]

First item... I have left this thread in general because it has been friendly and educational (including to myself). If it turns ugly it will be moved, or one of the other mods might move it....

Fair enough.


Anyhoo..... comparing the Federal Government's budget to your family budget is not really apples to apples..... The Fed's have two really interesting advantages going for it that your family does not.... first item is most of the money the Fed's barrow they barrow from other Federal programs (something like 90% of the barrowed money), so the interest being paid is really being paid to its self.
Second item is the Fed's can just print more money when they want to plug a hole. The down side to just printing more money devalues the dollar and causes inflation, so sometimes running a deficit is good if it holds inflation down.... all of this really only works because the US is considered the most stable government on the planet and the fact that they will never let themselves go broke (most of the printed US money is actually held outside the USA). The problem is if folks ever lose faith in the US government the whole house of cards crashes to the ground (see Greece).

This is why the "spend more" and "trickle down" and similar economics work. When folks spend more there is a larger tax bases, more faith in the US economy (dollar raises against foreign currency), yada, yada....

That is the extremely simplified version of things... But now you can see why your family budget and the Federal budget are apples and oranges...

:cool2:

I do know that it is not really a good comparison but it really is the only one that I have personal knowledge of. My issue isn't really with the country being in debt. It keeps the citizens and other countries invested in keeping it successful. I just think that there has to be some sort of limit, since my family budget doesn't even hit the millions I can't even fathom trillions.

The real question is why do I get in so much trouble when I try to print my own money... HAR HAR.

Thanks for simplifying things down, I think the explanation helps me understand why maybe a large national debt isn't destructive, at least on its own.

Byron,

It sounds like you think we have too many programs but the majority of the American people seem to disagree. I for one wasn't and am not in support of at least a few of the programs and don't even get me started on social security... But I have accepted that it is what people want, just like when we elect a different president than who I voted for. It is just the way the republic democracy that we live in works. The "majority" makes the decisions.

[Byron]

The "majority" makes the decisions.Believe me, my feet are firmly planted in reality here...I completely understand how the system works. I know full well how we got to where we are now, but it certainly doesn't mean I have to accept it.

Point...54 million people is not a majority in a country that has 200 million or more potential voters. It's too bad so many refuse to get involved, because contrary to what they probably think, elections do matter. I oppose the people who voted the Democrats in, and virtually everything they want...I also don't buy into the notion that a "majority" of Americans want what has been happening lately...lately meaning in particular the last 12 years.

Unfortunately, the one guy that would have at least started tapping the brakes on this lost to a maniac because the true "majority" of voters in this country either don't believe it makes a difference or are clueless about how serious this thing really is. A minority of liberals got really lucky...to the detriment of all of us.

So when they come to me with one hand out, asking for more, and the other balled into a fist my natural reaction is the two fisted middle finger salute. This is my answer to "We have to pay for all this stuff, so we have to raise taxes".

Ever see 550 million dollars go up in a giant bonfire? That was Solyndra. Just one example of perhaps thousands in all kinds of regards. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing...and they demand more of my cash? Yeah, well...minimize that kind of nonsense occurring in the news on a regular basis and then maybe we can talk...

[BruteForce]

I just got my first paycheck for 2013 and I'm now $700 less per check ($1400/month) thanks to an extra 2.4% tax and social security increase.

[PunchKing]

I am totally with you. I wish more people would vote and send their feelings and thoughts to their elected officials. In fact, I have and do. It is super easy with the internets. I recommend people, however they feel, should stay in contact with their officials. I have been using http://www.congress.org/news/, on the right side of the screen there is a "write your lawmakers" section. It is very easy and super fast. You just put in your address and your message you want to send and it does the rest. You can write both state and federal officials.

To your question, no I have never seen even 1 million dollars on fire let alone 550. I did watch that movie Cliffhanger with Sylvester Stallone, I think he burned some large amount of thousand dollar bills in that one and saved the day. I think there was even a line "It costs a fortune to heat this place" HAR HAR.

[PunchKing]

I just got my first paycheck for 2013 and I'm now $700 less per check ($1400/month) thanks to an extra 2.4% tax increase.

You make 30000 a paycheck? I think you will be saving us from falling off the fiscal cliff I think.

Assuming my math is correct 2.4%*X = $700 -> X = $29166.66

[BruteForce]

You make 30000 a paycheck? I think you will be saving us from falling off the fiscal cliff I think.

Assuming my math is correct 2.4%*X = $700 -> X = $29166.66

No, I edited to add that I got an additional hit on social security deductions. I wish I made $30k/check. Tax + SS new deductions = -$700/check.

[PunchKing]

Brutal, that is a lot of money.

[Iceaxe]

No, I edited to add that I got an additional hit on social security deductions. I wish I made $30k/check. Tax + SS new deductions = -$700/check.


You still have a problem.... any pay for 2012 should be taxed under the old rate, you should not see the increase until your first pay period of 2013.

And since we are only on day 4 of the new year, and the 1st was a Holiday, someone has made a serious mistake, unless you are paid daily and make 8 million dollars per year....

[ratagonia]

You still have a problem.... any pay for 2012 should be taxed under the old rate, you should not see the increase until your first pay period of 2013.

And since we are only on day 4 of the new year, and the 1st was a Holiday, someone has made a serious mistake, unless you are paid daily and make 8 million dollars per year....

I think I have it figured out...

Brute is valuable to his employer, who pays him 10k per month. To avoid rendering unto Caesar until the last possible moment, Brute's employer pays him quarterly, on the fourth day of the new quarter. He may have earned it in 2012, but the check was written in 2013, so it counts as 2013.

----

But actually -

Quickbooks payroll sent out an update in Mid-December with the assumption that the cliff would be fallen off of; and they have not rendered a new update based on the deal made. So until a new update occurs, paychecks will assume a Fed Withholding tax rate pre-Bush Tax Cuts, plus the new/old/regular SS rate. The good news is that this is just the withholding, so any excess will be to your credit, when you do your 2013 tax return 15 months from now.

Except...

I just ran my January Paycheck, and my Fed Withholding is the same, my SS up. So, my paycheck went from $2775 to $2704, so down $ 71.00. Those of you who work for larger companies (ha ha) might also have health care in there, which usually goes up with the new year... plus other complications. Alas, I do not.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

We use Quick books.... we did payroll on Jan 2 and it taxed under the old rate. Our pay period ran from Dec 16 to 31....

It doesn't matter when you write the check, it's your pay period. I'll know what effect the new laws has on Jan 16, which is our next pay day.

Sent using Tapatalk

[Felicia]

I got paid today for the work dates of 12/14/12 - 12/27/12. I paid $0.92 less in Federal Taxes and $6.77 more for medical. Everything else stayed the same.

[Felicia]

Oh - my State Taxes did change; went down by $1.07.

[Brian in SLC]

Yeah, but, have you seen the price of gas lately? Under 3 bucks a gallon? Ridiculous!

I demand a recount!

[BruteForce]

Ok, so here's what happened with my pay:

HR fouled up and overloaded my medical deductions by +$500. My SS went up only because I stopped paying in like July or Aug of last year (because I had met the requirement). Everything else was the same.

[accadacca]

Hmmmm, really?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LWlkXRZ3CA&sns=em

[BruteForce]

We're doomed. After watching the above YT video, I saw others that were similar in nature. Too damned many free loaders mooching off the system: Eventually the system will collapse (not if, but when)..

[Brian in SLC]

Nah, the back story on the video is really interesting. Its designed to piss you off, methinks.

Artist interview here:

http://www.rightthisminute.com/video/its-free-swipe-yo-ebt

"Chapter acts out character roles in her music using "Satire". Satire is primarily a literary genre or form, although in practice it can also be found in the graphic and performing arts. In satire, vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, and society itself, into improvement. Although satire is usually meant to be funny, its greater purpose is often constructive social criticism, using wit as a weapon."

Seems like its working!

[Brian in SLC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luo40WjBKWI&list=SP25D11309EA4CC4CD

[BruteForce]

Regardless, per this article in 11 States, those on the government teet now outnumber tax payers:

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-number-of-people-on-welfare-exceeds-the-number-of-people-with-jobs-in-11-states

[Iceaxe]

I thought some of you would be interested.... we did payroll yesterday (first pay period of 2013) and my employee's net paycheck (the amount they take home after taxes) dropped approximately 3%. This is where things settled after "The Deal".

What that means is if your paycheck used to be $2000 it will now be $1940. If your Check was $1000, it will now be $970.

Just though you would want to know. Barry has three more big budget showdowns starting in March. We either need to shrink the government or start paying even more.

:cool2:

[Scott P]

We either need to shrink the government or start paying even more.

Probably both if people are serious about reducing the deficit.

[Byron]

Probably both if people are serious about reducing the deficit.I'm not so sure about that...I think the gov being cut down in size, entitlement reform, deregulation, lower tax rates and the economy booming will do the trick...without raising taxes. I'm willing to give that a shot. If it's not enough, well then maybe tax increases need to be added to the mix as well.

I think it's too bad Romney lost because he was going to unleash the energy sector. I think that would have been a huge kick start for the economy. As it is, we all have to pay more for no real movement towards the problem...I'll never vote for a Democrat.

[Scott P]

I'm not so sure about that...I think the gov being cut down in size, entitlement reform, deregulation, lower tax rates and the economy booming will do the trick...without raising taxes.

The majority of our taxpayer money goes to Federal Defense (and "Defense" should be in quotations for much of it), and Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security. Unless big cuts are made in those areas, the national debt will likely rise.

[ilanimaka]

It looks like my total tax hike is in the neighborhood of $900 - 1,400.

[Iceaxe]

A year, a day, a lifetime? Do you make $1 a day or 200k?

You probably need to give your increase as a % (old vs new) to compare apples to apples.

I don't think anyone in the under $250k a year category should see more than 3%.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Byron]

I don't think anyone in the under $250k a year category should see more than 3%.

You're right about that...I was able to skirt it with buying some new equipment. It's too bad they force me to spend, but at least I have something to show for it. They really should create more incentives for saving...I'd much rather have that money working to increase interest or dividends.