Assault Weapons?

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: I was talking with the head of SLC Swat during the Trolly Square shooting. He told me everything has changed with regards to police and SWAT tactics since Columbine. He told me that so long as there is gun fire the officers are now taught to charge toward the gunfire. If the shooting stops they are to stop their advance and secrure the perimeter. At the time of Columbine officers were taught to first secure the perimeter, which is why officers stood in the parking lot at Columbine and watched the rampage through the school windows.

[Iceaxe]

somehow my post was abridged, should have had 2 links:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-16-2013/there-goes-the-boom

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-16-2013/there-goes-the-boom---atf


I know this is supposed to be part comedy.... but there is a lot of misinformation in those video...

for example... as an FFL holder (gun dealer), we have been inspected every year, they look at our books, and they had better be in order.

Now one positive... during the Clinton years the relationship between FFL holders and the ATF became very combative, which is why a lot of what now appear to be silly laws were added to the books. FFL holders were being harassed with the intention of forcing many to give up their FFL. Shit like being inspected every day type of crap.

After Clinton the ATF was revamped and instead of becoming the FFL holders enemy they became their support system. At the current time the working relationship between the ATF and FFL holders is very good (which is what it should be).

And while we do not have a Federal registry, guns used in crimes can still be tracked beginning at the manufacturer, through the distributors to the dealers, to the buyer.... remember I told you your records had better be in order.

The reason we don't have a Federal registry is gun owners do not trust the Fed's intention. Now if folks would stop proposing and threatening to take away assault rifles and forcing owners to sell all magazines holding over 7 rounds the gun owners would be more trusting and establishing a Federal registry would be practical... so it's kind of a catch 22.

I hate seeing any misinformation spread with regards to firearms, even in comedy, because some folks (like my dumbass brother) believes everything Jon Stewart's says is gospel.

Anyhoo.... just a little insight some might find interesting...

[Sombeech]

I'm still waiting for an idea or policy from the anti gun crowd that would have actually had some possibility of stopping the Sandy Hook incident.

Background checks? Nope, he stole the gun.
Registered weapons? Nope, he stole the gun and didn't indicate caring whether it was on some government database.
Harsher penalties for gun owners if they aren't kept safe? Well, the gun owner (the shooter's parent) is dead, so that's a pretty bad penalty
MORE gun free zones? Still trying to figure out how that could have stopped the Sandy Hook incident. Slaughters happen in these zones so LET'S MAKE MORE! :crazy:
Limit magazine capacity? Nope, well unless you assume that a first grader could have tackled him in the 1.5 second reload time. And the physical impossibility of 30 round magazines crumbling to dust once a ban is in place.
Ban "Assault Weapons" (that is, if any politician has any idea how to classify one). Nope, for somebody who murdered the gun owner, ignoring a ban is like rolling through a stop sign on a deserted intersection.

Are there any policy changes offered that would have had some little twinkling of a possibility of stopping or curbing the Sandy Hook carnage? Even a little?

[oldno7]

I'm still waiting for an idea or policy from the anti gun crowd that would have actually had some possibility of stopping the Sandy Hook incident.

Background checks? Nope, he stole the gun.
Registered weapons? Nope, he stole the gun and didn't indicate caring whether it was on some government database.
Harsher penalties for gun owners if they aren't kept safe? Well, the gun owner (the shooter's parent) is dead, so that's a pretty bad penalty
MORE gun free zones? Still trying to figure out how that could have stopped the Sandy Hook incident. Slaughters happen in these zones so LET'S MAKE MORE! :crazy:
Limit magazine capacity? Nope, well unless you assume that a first grader could have tackled him in the 1.5 second reload time. And the physical impossibility of 30 round magazines crumbling to dust once a ban is in place.
Ban "Assault Weapons" (that is, if any politician has any idea how to classify one). Nope, for somebody who murdered the gun owner, ignoring a ban is like rolling through a stop sign on a deserted intersection.

Are there any policy changes offered that would have had some little twinkling of a possibility of stopping or curbing the Sandy Hook carnage? Even a little?


There is something that would have eliminated the Columbine massacre, likely Aurora shooting, and likely Sandy Hook.

Eliminate Dr.--Patient confidentiality. I believe zero has this as one of his EO's(haven't read them all in their entirety.

[Brian in SLC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CElOFx16Xlw&feature=player_embedded#!

[Bootboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CElOFx16Xlw&feature=player_embedded#!

Nice. Thanks for bringing a valid, relevant video full of facts to this discussion. Not!

It's a bunch of adults pretending to be all indignant and disgusted. It's like when toddlers fake cry to get attention. Pretty weak...

I don't see anything wrong with that ad.
These people get all incensed as a bit of acting to convince you, the viewer, that you should also be disgusted. Its nothing more than the latest feeble move in the smear campaign against the NRA. Classic example of the media telling you how to think and feel. The ad is absolutely true, and sometimes the truth is hard to hear.
They use a good catch phrase like "political pornography" to make it appear as something that is vile and perverse, making the insinuation that someone actually derives sexual pleasure from it. They take it a step further and try to induce the idea that its a form of pedophilia by telling you the ad is about Obama's kids. It's a nice bit of acting is all it is. A completely emotional response, devoid of any rational, critical thinking. The conversation they are having is the platter on which this ad is presented to you, and presentation is everything, their show is like a dirty plate. Their charade is pretty transparent to anyone who has a rational approach to this issue.

[Iceaxe]

Eliminate Dr.--Patient confidentiality. I believe zero has this as one of his EO's(haven't read them all in their entirety.

^^^THIS^^^


And in addition all states should be forced to submit their mental records into the background check system. Currrently less than half the states make any mental records avaiable.

Of course none of this would have helped Sandy Hooks, as the guns were stolen. Also wouldn't have helped Columbine as the kids were underage and bought guns on the black market..... hmm criminals with guns... where have I heard that before.



I don't see anything wrong with that ad.

x2

The ad was designed to make a point and start people talking. It did exactly what it was designed to do.

This is easily the biggest joke of the year... the NRA put out a press/ web release criticizing the President's upcoming gun control legislation, pointing out that unlike most citizens, his daughters have around the clock armed protection including at school. The White House issued a statement expressing outrage that the NRA would use children, especially the Presidents' for political purposes. So you know what happened. At the Noon press conference, the White House trotted out four children asking for gun control.

:roflol:

Nothing I hate in the world more than Hypocrites.

http://msnbctv.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/516534377.jpg?w=400&h=300


Except for 4th graders make national policy... :roflol::roflol:

[oldno7]

Can you judge the success of liberal rags by the current condition of their business?

msnbc is the liberal, tv, version of time, hopefully their fate is similar

But certainly people in this country don't vote with their $$$$---do they?


http://www.businessinsider.com/time-inc-will-lay-off-700-after-5-ad-decline-2013-1

[Brian in SLC]

Except for 4th graders make national policy...

They do when they're slaughtered by someone.

[Iceaxe]

They do when they're slaughtered by someone.

That has yet to be seen....

I hope the dumbasses seeking gun control just keep tacking more items on to their wish list. Every time they tack a new item on it diminishes the chance of anything getting past. Too bad several positive things they could actually do to help the problem will be lost in their ridiculous demands.

March can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned. Congress and the president have three huge "finacial cliff" type budgets that will need to be dealt with come March one. I just don't think the gun control advocates have the muscle to do much. The pro-gun groups are doing an excellent job of educating the public in a speedy fashion.

And just for giggles...


Senator Rand Paul to Introduce Legislation to Nullify Executive Orders Signed by President Obama
2013 January 17

According to Politico.com, Sen. Rand Paul is pledging to undo some of President Barack Obama’s executive orders on guns that the Kentucky Republican believes overreach.

“In this bill we will nullify anything the president does that smacks of legislation,” Rand said Wednesday on Fox’s “Hannity,” referencing his legislation that is slated to be introduced in Congress next week. “And there are several of the executive orders that appear as if he’s writing new law. That cannot happen.”

“I’m afraid that President Obama may have this ‘king complex’ sort of developing, and we’re going to make sure it doesn’t happen,” Paul said, adding that the Founding Fathers specified that Congress should make laws.

“I think there are a few Democrats that will worry about going home to West Virginia or other states like that and voting for a ban on guns,” Paul said. “So, I think there is a good chance we can stop his legislative action. I’m concerned he will try to do the regulatory fiat, what he can’t pass through legislation.”

[Iceaxe]

And for the record.... the gun business is still going insane.... I was just up to my dad's and his comment was "you wouldn't believe how much money I've made in the past month". He has been buying "assault rifles" and "high capcity magazines" and turning around a day later and selling them for twice what he paid.

[oldno7]

^^^THIS^^^


And in addition all states should be forced to submit their mental records into the background check system. Currrently less than half the states make any mental records avaiable.

Of course none of this would have helped Sandy Hooks, as the guns were stolen. Also wouldn't have helped Columbine as the kids were underage and bought guns on the black market..... hmm criminals with guns... where have I heard that before.




x2

The ad was designed to make a point and start people talking. It did exactly what it was designed to do.

I might slightly disagree and be open for correction if I'm wrong:

Klebold and Harris were being treated, at least harris was on the anti-depressant Luvox.

harris was a great psychopath(per FBI investigator), there were signs all along, they just were not heeded. Of course those looking back have clear 20/20 vision.

holmes showed similar signs and was seeing a psychiatrist at the school, Dr. Lynne Fenton.,

Fenton alerted University officials that holmes could pose a threat to others. After he dropped out of school, Fenton claimed they had no authority to respond to his behavior.(sounds like the ball was dropped here)

Some say lanza snapped when he learned of his mothers intentions to have him committed, that would certainly involve a Dr's evaluation.

So I have to think that had any of the Dr's involved in these 3 cases, pursued their determinations, it would be likely these murderers could have been avoided.

Certainly well open to discussion here.

[Iceaxe]

I might slightly disagree and be open for correction if I'm wrong:

Klebold and Harris were being treated, at least harris was on the anti-depressant Luvox.

What I posted is correct.... and what you posted is correct.... I don't think a doctors note would have made any difference.

I was pointing out that in addition to failing the mental part of owning a firearm that it really didn't matter as all three obtained their guns illegally. In other words, no amount of background checks or gun registration would have made a difference.

[Sombeech]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CElOFx16Xlw&feature=player_embedded#!


This is "political pornography"

62858

And THIS is not.

62859

Thank you for your cooperation

[oldno7]

What I posted is correct.... and what you posted is correct.... I don't think a doctors note would have made any difference.

I was pointing out that in addition to failing the mental part of owning a firearm that it really didn't matter as all three obtained their guns illegally. In other words, no amount of background checks or gun registration would have made a difference.

Agree, what I was pointing out was that if it wasn't politically incorrect, these 4 could have been committed in one form or the other and these murders may not have happened.

But the aclu and drug companies wouldn't favor such action.

[Sombeech]

There is something that would have eliminated the Columbine massacre, likely Aurora shooting, and likely Sandy Hook.

Eliminate Dr.--Patient confidentiality. I believe zero has this as one of his EO's(haven't read them all in their entirety.

Isn't it interesting, the constant cry for "Right to Privacy" except when it comes to Gun Ownership, the Liberals want to create a nice database?

[Iceaxe]

I guarantee you won't see this in the general media....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR3t7j2tUec

:popcorn:

[oldno7]

I guarantee you won't see this in the general media....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR3t7j2tUec

:popcorn:

WOW--Well stated, I thought I had seen most but I missed this one.

[oldno7]

I just got this, my 2nd response.





CHRIS STEWART
2nd District of Utah

http://stewart.house.gov (http://stewart.house.gov/)
http://email.iconstituent.com/images/letterheadimg1.jpg


323 Cannon
Office Building
(202) 225-9730



January 17, 2013


Mr.

Dear Mr.

Thank you for contacting me regarding the issue of gun control. This is a crucial issue and I appreciate the time you took to express your thoughts.

Recent and saddening acts of violence, such as those in Newtown and Aurora, have brought guns to national attention. These acts of violence, as terrible as they are, should not be used as justification to revoke rights outlined in the United States Constitution.

While I share your concern about gun violence, I believe that we must protect the rights of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms. I strongly believe that we need to look into the status of our country

[oldno7]

Keep Writing folks!!!!

[Iceaxe]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/23373_3641629859139_174227682_n.jpg

[oldno7]

http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20130116/NEWS/301160042/Mississippi-Gov-Phil-Bryant-wants-to-block-Obama-s-federal-gun-actions?nclick_check=1

[oldno7]

So tell me tom, Why do you, as the owner of imlay canyon gear, fear lawful gun owners?

Have you been attacked in Mt. Carmel by armed madmen? Have you been accosted by armed groups passing through the Zion tunnel?

Seriously, why do YOU fear an individuals right to own a gun?

[oldno7]

Texas Attorney General

http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2013/01/17/greg-abbott-urges-gun-toting-new-yorkers-to-point-their-wagons-southwest-and-move-to-texas/

[ratagonia]

So tell me tom, Why do you, as the owner of imlay canyon gear, fear lawful gun owners?

Have you been attacked in Mt. Carmel by armed madmen? Have you been accosted by armed groups passing through the Zion tunnel?

Seriously, why do YOU fear an individuals right to own a gun?

Despite reading the entire novelistic output of Louis L'Amour, I do not fear lawful gun owners, either as myself or as the owner of Imlay Canyon Gear.

I have not been attacked in Mt Carmel by armed madmen, or I would likely be on the other side of the debate, at least according to the NRA.

I have been accosted by armed individuals near the Zion tunnel, but they were LE Rangers of the NPS, and all our interactions have been cordial.

I do not FEAR an individual's right to own a gun.

What other myths do you have about liberals that you would like me to NOT conform too?

Tom :moses:

[oldno7]

What other myths do you have about liberals that you would like me to NOT conform too?

Tom :moses:

Do you support the 2nd Amendment as it is currently interpreted by the Supreme Court?

Do you support a ban on modern rifles(assault rifles)and there 30 rd magazines?

Thats all I got, thanks for asking.

[accadacca]

Sandy Hook 'Hoax' Debunked



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzMtYWvvnQ4&sns=em

[ratagonia]

Do you support the 2nd Amendment as it is currently interpreted by the Supreme Court?

Do you support a ban on modern rifles(assault rifles)and there 30 rd magazines?

Thats all I got, thanks for asking.

Second Amendment jurisprudence is very fuzzy right now. So I am not sure what the "current interpretation" is?

So... generally, Yes, however, your version and my version of "currently interpretation" are likely quite different.

---

The proposed ban on modern rifles and 30 round magazines is crazy. Totally unenforceable.

So I see no point in supporting it. Period. It can't get past Congress anyway.

Tom

[oldno7]

Second Amendment jurisprudence is very fuzzy right now. So I am not sure what the "current interpretation" is?

So... generally, Yes, however, your version and my version of "currently interpretation" are likely quite different.

---

The proposed ban on modern rifles and 30 round magazines is crazy. Totally unenforceable.

So I see no point in supporting it. Period. It can't get past Congress anyway.

Tom

As far as current Supreme court interpretation, It has never been more clear.

I believe DC V. Heller helped and McDonald V. Chicago made it Crystal clear.

Where do you see wiggle room?

As far as what's protected--In DC V Heller, in section 2 of the ruling, it defines what is protected, the definition is "Weapons Protected are those in common use at the time"

I don't think anyone could argue that at this "current time" there is another weapon more common in use than an AR 15.

Of course that ruling also defeats those who would argue--that us gunowners think we can have tanks and nukes.(a strawman at it's finest)

So for those who would argue--where do you draw the line? It has been clearly drawn.

[Iceaxe]

As far as current Supreme court interpretation, It has never been more clear.

I believe DC V. Heller helped and McDonald V. Chicago made it Crystal clear.

^^^THIS^^^

The wiggle room on interpretation has been completely removed.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[oldno7]

OK is in:2thumbs:


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/17/Oklahoma-Steps-Up-Threatens-5-Years-Imprisonment-For-Federal-Gun-Grabbers

[oldno7]

And who'd a thunk it in CO.

hickenlooper is furious:mrgreen:

http://www.9news.com/rss/article/310877/188/Larimer-Sheriff-says-he-wont-enforce-gun-laws-he-considers-unconstitutional

[oldno7]

Is barry zero getting desperate?
Now he says he'll use his campaign funds and apparatus, to take on the NRA.
Sounds like the Executive is getting monetarily vested in the cause.

http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/01/16/cutter_obama_will_activate_campaign_apparatus_to_t ake_on_the_nra.html

[Byron]

And who'd a thunk it in CO.

hickenlooper is furious:mrgreen:

It's not Hickenlooper...it's Lickenpooper.

[Iceaxe]

If the government wants to do something effective with regards to gun control how about prosecuting anyone that provides false information on their background check. It is a felony to do so, yet the crime is seldom prosecuted. When questioned about this Biden replied the Feds don't have the time or money... insert eye roll here...

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[ratagonia]

As far as current Supreme court interpretation, It has never been more clear.

I believe DC V. Heller helped and McDonald V. Chicago made it Crystal clear.

Where do you see wiggle room?

As far as what's protected--In DC V Heller, in section 2 of the ruling, it defines what is protected, the definition is "Weapons Protected are those in common use at the time"

I don't think anyone could argue that at this "current time" there is another weapon more common in use than an AR 15.

Of course that ruling also defeats those who would argue--that us gunowners think we can have tanks and nukes. (A strawman at it's finest)

So for those who would argue--where do you draw the line? It has been clearly drawn.

I had not really read the Heller decision before, only summaries... thank you for twisting my arm and prodding me to read it.

Yes, there is very little wiggle room. But both Heller and McDonald were knocking down pretty extreme laws. The finding is clear that it makes the AR 15 in common use, etc. I think the same argument will be used, successfully, for 30 rd magazines too. The wiggle room is in implementation, permitting, etc... we'll see how much of the new NY law passes muster (probably not much). But it does usually take two years for things to percolate up to the SCOTUS. A lot can happen in two years - and both of those were 5-4s with vehement dissents.

The problem for us Libs is that OUR judges DO believe in precedent, so whatever decision my team makes (assuming one of the Federalists has a heart attack (only a 20% probability)) has to include Heller and MacDonald at least rhetorically in any decision moving the goal posts back. Unlikely on many fronts.

And, before you ask, YES, I think my man Obama is making a big political mistake in some of the things he has asked Congress to do. However, it seems kinda safe because Congress will never do it... stalemate again. Seems like it is a bad place, a divisive place, to spend one's meager supply of political capital.

:moses:

[Iceaxe]

Sounds like the Executive is getting monetarily vested in the cause.

Someone from the pro gun control side needs to. Last time I looked they were getting their ass kick in financial contributions by approximately 100 to 1.

The pro gun control crowd is always whining about the power of the NRA as if it's some evil mystery why they are so powerful. The power comes from a huge number of supporters who back up their beliefs with their checkbook.



Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[oldno7]

And, before you ask, YES, I think my man Obama is making a big political mistake in some of the things he has asked Congress to do. However, it seems kinda safe because Congress will never do it... stalemate again. Seems like it is a bad place, a divisive place, to spend one's meager supply of political capital.

:moses:
Very good reply, might I say thanks for a cordial debate.

Not only is your man, zero, spending political capital, he is now spending personal(kinda) capital.

I see the trouble in your party right now as the divide on this issue between barry and Sen. Reid.

The Rep. have too many divides to count and no idea what direction to head on many fronts

The direction this debate goes(gun control) could make or break either party.

THATS a lot of political capital at risk.

If the Rep. wiggle or concede even what they might consider a small amount(ref.debt ceiling cave in)the party will crumble.

The Rep's lost any attempt at conservatism in the bush II years.

I hear some saying, such as Colin Powell, that the party needs to be more moderate, I couldn't disagree more.

The party is supposed to be based on conservative values, failure, at this point, to retain those values is a death knell.

[James_B_Wads2000]

Hehehehe I'm just starting shit...62867



James

[James_B_Wads2000]

^^^THIS^^^

The wiggle room on interpretation has been completely removed.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3


I'm afraid your wrong. In both Heller and in McDonold it never said congress couldn't put restrictions on guns. What those restrictions are were left vague. Plenty of room to wiggle in.



James

[oldno7]

James

You may be one of the more knowledgeable thinkers on this forum. I generally fall on opposite sides of debate with you but respect your knowledge.

What if, instead of stirring shit(you are good) Maybe try stirring intellectual discussion?:ne_nau:

Crazy, I know, no room on bogley for such non sense.(intellectual discussion)

Once you have become vested in the debate and offered up your position, maybe then stir shit:mrgreen:

Your last couple of posts have been pathetic, look at me, trolls, nothing more...

[oldno7]

I'm afraid your wrong. In both Heller and in McDonold it never said congress couldn't put restrictions on guns. What those restrictions are were left vague. Plenty of room to wiggle in.



James

The BOR's said congress couldn't put a restriction on guns. The term that was used was--"shall not be infringed"

The BOR's was to protect "people"(us) from the government, not visa versa.

So your statement would back a THEORY that congress can ban i-phone's?

If your point is the 2nd has already been compromised, you would be correct.

[Sombeech]

Hehehehe I'm just starting shit...62867



James

Yes because every other Liberal solution has been proven to fail. This is what happens with the Liberal mindset on every gun control debate. The ideas get walked through and proven to not actually work. So then the subject changes or they'll go out on a tangent like talking about owning nuclear weapons.

And to disprove your point once again in the funny pic you posted, the conservatives DON'T want to regulate Gay Marriage or Vaginas. They want government COMPLETELY out of the business. But you think that is regulation.

If we voted to keep government funding out of a local mountain bike race, would you see that as regulation?

[Iceaxe]

I'm afraid your wrong. In both Heller and in McDonold it never said congress couldn't put restrictions on guns. What those restrictions are were left vague. Plenty of room to wiggle in.

I agree congress has the ability to regulate firearms.... which is why we don't have real (full auto) assault rifles.

What the Heller and McDonald case did (among other things) was clear up what some considered poor language in the BOR. Pro gun control groups had argued the right to bear arms was in conjunction with being in a militia. The Supreme Court ruled they were seprate issues, meaning you could be in a militia and own arms and the two were not interconnected. That is now crystal clear...

:cool2:

[Iceaxe]

If this passes I'll make a mint turning piece of crap $100 rifles into "assault weapons" and selling them for $500. This is anther dumbass idea from someone that doesn't understand firearms or "assault rifles"

Bill Introduced Would Give $2000 Tax Credit for Turning in “Assault Weapons” to Gov

A new bill has been introduced in the House of Representatives that will give people who turn in an “assault weapon” to the government to get a $2000 credit on their taxes.

The credit would be split into two $1000 credits over 2 years.

The bill uses similar language to the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban to define an “assault weapon.” Almost any weapon with a detachable, standard capacity magazine would apply for the credit.

The bill was introduced by CT Rep Rosa DeLauro. The aim of the bill is to “reduce the number of privately owned weapons.”

Is this passes, who will be turning in their semi-auto firearms to the government if this was to pass?

[oldno7]

Virginia Stands Up:

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/virginia-committee-assault-weapons/2013/01/18/id/472057

[oldno7]

I find this interesting and incredibly pertinent to the mag ban equation. Here are the results from eric harris, when he was learning how to handle a SINGLE BARREL,SINGLE SHOT, shotgun. QFE--SINGLE shot, shotgun....



"Every shot was punishing. The blast would tear the barrel out of his left hand and whip his gun arm back like a rubber band.But he learned quickly, soon he was riding out the recoil to catch the barrel stub(they had cut their shotgun barrels down)as it swung around,snap it open,feed a shell,lock it down,squeeze a round and repeat the process in one fluid, continuous motion.
He pounded out four shots in five seconds, He was pleased."

Copied from Columbine by Cullen

[Iceaxe]

The new Glock ad...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQHWTfFV3Vc

[oldno7]

The new Glock ad...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQHWTfFV3Vc

Post #493

Your falling behind my friend:haha:

But she's certainly cute enough for a repost.

[oldno7]

Heres how British law works in regards to the right to defend your home, hint, you can't use excessive force.

I feel kinda trashy using Wiki, but I also saw many other sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

[oldno7]

boogeyman in the closet...:haha:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cXDsoM2QYqQ



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=L4MOGdPzzvY

[oldno7]

oh the webs that we weave-----

http://www.wgy.com/pages/chuckandkelly.html?article=10702815#.UPbanrFFDfc.f acebook

[rockgremlin]

I'm utterly flabbergasted this thread is 15 pages and counting. Any bets on where it'll end?

I'm betting on pg. 28 or thereabouts...:deadhorse::rifle:


:assault::topes:


You guys suck...

[Iceaxe]

Bill Introduced Would Give $2000 Tax Credit for Turning in “Assault Weapons” to Gov

Just for fun I looked up what SKS rifles were selling for... $700 :eek2: on Gun Exchange.

About 25 years ago we were buying SKS's by the hundreds and selling them dirt cheap. We were selling the rifle and 1300 rounds of ammo for $200. And we were making money. :lol8:

[Brian in SLC]

Hmm. I have a "friend" who'd probably part with his Ruger Mini 14, 7 magazines, Weaver 4X scope, Choate folder, flash hider, great condition. Wonder what it'd fetch?

1200? Really?

[Iceaxe]

Wonder what it'd fetch?

http://utahgunexchange.com/?s=ruger+mini+14&scat=0

If your "friend" is going to part with it now is the time to do it...

[oldno7]

Heres to hitting 29, just for RG

[Brian in SLC]

Can't believe what hi cap mag's are selling for! 80 bucks or more? Crazy!

[Iceaxe]

A friend stopped by Tuesday with twenty 30 round AR15 magazines and asked if I knew anyone that wanted them. My step brother bought all 20 :-)

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Iceaxe]

http://cdn.motinetwork.net/demotivationalposters.net/image/demotivational-poster/0905/second-amendment-chicks-demotivational-poster-1243450627.jpg

[oldno7]

Can't believe what hi cap mag's are selling for! 80 bucks or more? Crazy!

You talking 40rd + mags??(high capacity)

Standard mags are 30rds, just curious.

[Brian in SLC]

Standard used to be 20 rnds...

Yeah, someone just sold two per that site Ice listed at 165, and a 40 rounder for 80. Wow.

Seems like the rifle with mags going for 12 to 1500. Although some at 900. Didn't realize Ruger retails them for around 900.

Colt LE6920 for 2200. Yikes!

[Iceaxe]

I've been amused just browsing the gun auctions and watching the crazines.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[oldno7]

Standard used to be 20 rnds...

Yeah, someone just sold two per that site Ice listed at 165, and a 40 rounder for 80. Wow.

Seems like the rifle with mags going for 12 to 1500. Although some at 900. Didn't realize Ruger retails them for around 900.

Colt LE6920 for 2200. Yikes!

I don't have a list but many new ar's come with 30's.
Mine came with 2-20's.
Some of those dang FFL dudes started removing 1 of the 2 30rd mags when they became so pricy.

[oldno7]

And how bout' say anything joe:roll:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/18/bidens-claim-brush-gun-massacre-questioned/

[goindeep]

I feel like crazy people are gonna find a way to do crazy things no matter what the rules are. Personally, i want to be able to protect my family if they are in danger. So freedom to arm yourself in my opinion.

[oldno7]

Standard used to be 20 rnds...

Yeah, someone just sold two per that site Ice listed at 165, and a 40 rounder for 80. Wow.

Seems like the rifle with mags going for 12 to 1500. Although some at 900. Didn't realize Ruger retails them for around 900.

Colt LE6920 for 2200. Yikes!

Found some, Colt Magpul Versions came standard with 30's

http://www.impactguns.com/colt-sporter-moe-blk-556mm-16in-m4-sp6920mp-b-098289019356.aspx

[oldno7]

It seems feinstein is a bit racist

[ratagonia]

I've been amused just browsing the gun auctions and watching the crazines.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

And Y'alls thought Obama didn't have a job stimulus program...

:moses:

[Brian in SLC]

I don't have a list but many new ar's come with 30's.
Mine came with 2-20's.
Some of those dang FFL dudes started removing 1 of the 2 30rd mags when they became so pricy.

Yeah, the Mini 14 was standard with the 5 round mag's back in the 80's or so, and the 20 rounders were hard to get. They opened up the 30 for civilian sales for a couple years but they've been discontinued now, rumor has. They used to be just available to LE or Military folk is all. Ruger factory mag's always way more spendy than brand X. Even more so now.

[oldno7]

Is it good for the democrats to be eating their own?

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2013/01/18/NRA-Blood-Money-Gun-Control-Ad-Implies-Congressman-is-Responsible-for-Newtown-massacre

[accadacca]

http://media-cache-ec5.pinterest.com/upload/120189883775916813_9LqZkXog_c.jpg

[accadacca]

http://photos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/321073_395228563898524_1691702346_n.png?dl=1

[Iceaxe]

And Y'alls thought Obama didn't have a job stimulus program...

LMAO


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[oldno7]

Read down through the comments, interesting.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/01/17/new_york_mayor_warns_of_waco-style_standoff_over_gun_control_laws-comments.html

[hank moon]

http://photos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/321073_395228563898524_1691702346_n.png?dl=1

Point being?

[accadacca]

Point being?
It's a funny image.

The point for whomever made it? Making registration a requirement won't solve the problem.

[hank moon]

It's a funny image.

The point for whomever made it? Making registration a requirement won't solve the problem.

problem being?

That is, I'd like to hear your version of "the problem" that is addressed by this sign. Seems like folks are going straight for solution w/o even agreeing on what the problem is.

[oldno7]

problem being?

That is, I'd like to hear your version of "the problem" that is addressed by this sign. Seems like folks are going straight for solution w/o even agreeing on what the problem is.

You're the only one having a problem here. You add ZERO to the conversation and then demand others, who have the balls to be vested in the argument, offer their "version"

Get intellectually into the conversation or go away, your trolling skills are lacking.

[Iceaxe]

problem being?

That is, I'd like to hear your version of "the problem" that is addressed by this sign.

The problem is criminals are not being prosecuted for crimes they commit. The problem is current gun laws already on the books, many of which address the concerns raised by gun control advocates, are not being enforced.

During a firearm task force meeting with Biden, NRA mentioned the need to vigorously prosecute existing gun laws. Biden responded, "We simply don't have the time or manpower to prosecute everybody who lies on a form, that checks a wrong box, that answers a question inaccurately." That's right: Biden said the administration doesn't have time to prosecute crimes under existing laws, but is proposing a host of sweeping new laws!

Or at least that is my take.... what's yours?

[Sombeech]

Point being?

I'd like to know why the big push to register guns. I mean, it is to prevent mass shootings, right? So why does the government need a database of gun owners?

[Iceaxe]

I'd like to know why the big push to register guns. I mean, it is to prevent mass shootings, right? So why does the government need a database of gun owners?

Good question!

The reasoning is straightforward: If a gun has been left at a crime scene and it was registered to the person who committed the crime, the registry will link the crime gun back to the criminal.

Nice logic, but in reality it hardly ever works that way. Guns are very rarely left behind at a crime scene. When they are, they're usually stolen or unregistered. Criminals are not stupid enough to leave behind guns that are registered to them. Even in the few cases where registered guns are left at crime scenes, it is usually because the criminal has been seriously injured or killed, so these crimes would have been solved even without registration.

Canada recently got rid of its costly "long-gun" registry for rifles in part because the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Chiefs of Police could not provide a single example in which tracing was of more than peripheral importance in solving a gun murder.

This is anther one of those sounds good in the media but the money would be better spent elsewhere ideas.

[Brian in SLC]

During a firearm task force meeting with Biden, NRA mentioned the need to vigorously prosecute existing gun laws. Biden responded, "We simply don't have the time or manpower to prosecute everybody who lies on a form, that checks a wrong box, that answers a question inaccurately." That's right: Biden said the administration doesn't have time to prosecute crimes under existing laws, but is proposing a host of sweeping new laws!

Or at least that is my take.... what's yours?

My take is you haven't reviewed the plan. Here's a snippet:

Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime: The Attorney General will work with all United States Attorneys to continue to ensure that every appropriate resource is focused on preventing gun violence. To this end, the Attorney General will ask all U.S. Attorneys to consider whether supplemental efforts would be appropriate in their districts, in areas such as prosecutions of people who have been convicted of a felony and illegally seek to obtain a firearm, or people who attempt to evade the background check system by providing false information.

Here's the whole meal deal:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/wh_now_is_the_time_full.pdf

[Iceaxe]

My take is you haven't reviewed the plan.

Trust me.... I read the plan... and Biden also said what I posted... which was the point in time where the NRA told Biden he was wasting their time and they would take their case to the people.

FWIW: I thought the plan had some good stuff in it, to bad those ideas will get lost because they were wrapped in a turd sandwich.

[Brian in SLC]

Its kind of a big plan. Almost too much going on. Cuts across a heck of a lot of terrain. I like a fair bit of it too.

Big part of it seems to be the mental health angle. That's a good thing.

Be interesting to see what congress does with their part.

[oldno7]

And Y'alls thought Obama didn't have a job stimulus program...

:moses:
Dang, I almost missed this:haha:

[oldno7]

FWIW: I thought the plan had some good stuff in it, to bad those ideas will get lost because they were wrapped in a turd sandwich.

Kinda like the poo ooozing out of this catch phrase:

"Make sure dangerous people are prohibited from having guns:"

But, on the bright side, holder will be in charge, are you f-in kidding me?

holder gets to write the definition of "dangerous people", Nothing could go wrong there for gun owners:roll:

[oldno7]

Serious poo here as well: It gets blurred by throwing in mental health, which it should. It gets absurd when it talks of medical doctors turned atf agents.

Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety:
Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their
patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of
certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home.
Some have incorrectly claimed that language in the Affordable Care Act prohibits doctors from
asking their patients about guns and gun safety. Medical groups also continue to fight against
state laws attempting to ban doctors from asking these questions. The Administration will
issue guidance clarifying that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit or otherwise regulate
communication between doctors and patients, including about firearms.

[oldno7]

This was a key point in DC v. Heller, seperating guns from ammo makes no sense.

Launch a national responsible gun ownership campaign: The Administration will
encourage gun owners to take responsibility for keeping their guns safe with a national
campaign. The campaign will promote common-sense gun safety measures like the use of gun
safes and trigger locks, separate storage of guns and ammunition, and the reporting of lost and
stolen weapons to law enforcement.

[oldno7]

And the Good, This act alone, as I spelled out in a previous post, WOULD have prevented Columbine and likely Aurora and Sandy Hook

4: IMPROVIN G MEN TAL HEAL TH SER VICES
As President Obama said, “We are going to need to work on making access to mental health care as
easy as access to a gun.” Today, less than half of children and adults with diagnosable mental health
problems receive the treatment they need. While the vast majority of Americans with a mental
illness are not violent, several recent mass shootings have highlighted how some cases of mental
illness can develop into crisis situations if individuals do not receive proper treatment. We need to do
more than just keep guns out of the hands of people with serious mental illness; we need to identify
mental health issues early and help individuals get the treatment they need before these dangerous
situations develop.

[oldno7]

WARNING..WARNING...WARNING.. this video is NSWF

DO NOT VIEW AT WORK OR IN FRONT OF CHILDREN, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED..

But dog gonnut it's funny:haha:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wSO_Jl7DFrg

[Scott P]

Today's news:

http://news.yahoo.com/three-hurt-firearm-accident-north-carolina-gun-show-234451916.html (http://news.yahoo.com/three-hurt-firearm-accident-north-carolina-gun-show-234451916.html)

[oldno7]

Today's news:

http://news.yahoo.com/three-hurt-firearm-accident-north-carolina-gun-show-234451916.html (http://news.yahoo.com/three-hurt-firearm-accident-north-carolina-gun-show-234451916.html)

Come on Scott, offer up some thought, not just a "hit and run link", Your better than that.

I might wonder how many auto accidents happened in North Carolina today?

There were thousands of gun shows today, likely the most of any day of the year and your throwing out 3-injured??

What else ya got? Your good at math, what does that equate to in a %, if there were millions of gun owners at shows today?

I'm guessing more were injured or killed getting to the shows but that doesn't scream of an obvious agenda, does it.

So with no explanation on your behalf, it seems easy to conclude your not trying to inform us of news, rather a veiled attempt at sensationalism.

[oldno7]

joe biden's remarks, credible?

This is the guy zero put in charge of the task force.(on gun control)

Yea, I trust him:roll:

"But a search of maps of the area in Lancaster County, Pa., shows the nearest golf course to the site of the shooting, Moccasin Run Golf Club (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/moccasin-run-golf-club/), is about five miles away. Rodney King (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/rodney-king/), the golf pro at Moccasin Run, said Friday he was working at the course on the day of the shooting and never saw Mr. Biden (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/joseph-r-biden/), who was then a U.S. senator.
“There’s a lot of things here that I find hard to believe,” Mr. King (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/rodney-king/) said. “I looked in my database, and he [Mr. Biden (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/joseph-r-biden/)] is not in my database.”
Even if Mr. Biden (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/joseph-r-biden/) had played at the course that day, Mr. King (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/rodney-king/) said, “It’s very far-fetched that he would have heard it.”
“I know he didn’t hear those gunshots,” Mr. King (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/rodney-king/) said. “They were inside the school. Even if they were outside, he wouldn’t have heard them.”
A spokeswoman for the vice president did not return a request seeking comment Friday. Mr. Biden (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/joseph-r-biden/) told the story as he was describing for the mayors’ group the Obama administration’s efforts to enact new gun-control laws."


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/18/bidens-claim-brush-gun-massacre-questioned/#ixzz2IWumvr3k
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=ctd-fI3Dar4z1uacwqm_6r&u=washtimes)

[Scott P]

Come on Scott, offer up some thought, not just a "hit and run link", Your better than that.



I don't have extemely strong opinions on either side of the gun issue, so don't have any arguements to present. The article was posted asfront page news and I rolled my eyes at how dumb the guy was.

If you really do want some thoughts and opinions, I have on the issue, I don't have any strong ones on where the line should be drawn on which weapons should be able to be owned by the public, but I do have opinions that punishment for people such as in the article above. Our prisons are already full and costly, so the punishment should be monetary. At a minimum anyone committing such a stupid crime should be fined enough money that they lose their house.

Punishment for violent crimes should be much swifter and harsher. Take the Aurora Theater shooting, for example. Due process is important. Everyone knows that James Holmes is guilty. I'd bet that these trials are going to cost the taxpayers millions. What exactly is to be debated in the courts? Have a fair, but speedy trial (one day should be more than enough in an obviously slam dunk case) and excecute the punishment immediately. End of story.

[oldno7]

This is becoming quite common across the Country, Sheriffs,Governors,Attorney Generals,Legislatures.

When was the last time such a large array of Gov. officials, openly rebuked the pres.?

http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_3516.shtml

[oldno7]

I don't have extemely strong opinions on either side of the gun issue, so don't have any arguements to present. The article was posted asfront page news and I rolled my eyes at how dumb the guy was.

If you really do want some thoughts and opinions, I have on the issue, I don't have any strong ones on where the line should be drawn on which weapons should be able to be owned by the public, but I do have opinions that punishment for people such as in the article above. Our prisons are already full and costly, so the punishment should be monetary. At a minimum anyone committing such a stupid crime should be fined enough money that they lose their house.

Punishment for violent crimes should be much swifter and harsher. Take the Aurora Theater shooting, for example. Due process is important. Everyone knows that James Holmes is guilty. I'd bet that these trials are going to cost the taxpayers millions. What exactly is to be debated in the courts? Have a fair, but speedy trial (one day should be more than enough in an obviously slam dunk case) and excecute the punishment immediately. End of story.

Thanks for taking the time to post. I wholeheartedly agree with most of your statement.

The only thing I'm not sure of is the amount of monetary penalty for being stupid and yes, there is no other conclusion that can be drawn on this accident other than STUPID HURTS.

My only real concern on the amount of monetary punishment is the precedent for other STUPID accidents.

Once again, thought provoking, thanks

[oldno7]

And just so ya'alls don't accuse me of getting outdoors enough, but you would be right,lately.

Heres a pic of us out hiking and climbing with grandkids yesterday around turtle hill above St. George.

My 3 year old amazed me(the one holding my hand) He took instruction on climbing and downclimbing very well.

When we climbed our first hill(un remarkable by most standards) he jumped and yelled--"Papa,I made it", made my day.


Now back to our regularly scheduled program.............:mrgreen:

[oldno7]

Bill Clinton's Warning:

He understands mid-terms:haha:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/bill-clinton-to-democrats-dont-trivialize-gun-culture-86443.html

[Iceaxe]

Bill Clinton's Warning:

That was. Interesting.... Slick Willy and me agree on something...

Go ahead gun control advocates. Just keep piling more baggage on the cart and soon enough it will be unmovable.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Sombeech]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_5QOvoOW8g

[Sombeech]

And you know what, love or hate her, she does bring up an interesting point. If all gun owners are registered, would we then have access to see the Anti Gun folks who have hired armed guards? Or would they somehow slip through the system?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=zJriJuaEpQY

[oldno7]

I've been studying a lot lately in regards to the "gun free zone" shooters. I made comments about 3-Columbine,Aurora,Newtown.

I just read that cho--from the Virginia Tech shooting was a huge fan of klebold/harris. He also was under care of the University's "student mental health services".

So all of these mass murderers, where under psychiatric care. Seems these types of individuals are falling through the cracks of mental health care.





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By EMILY FRIEDMAN (http://abcnews.go.com/author/emily_friedman) (EmilyABC (http://twitter.com/EmilyABC))
Aug. 19, 2009




The missing pieces of the mental health records (http://www.unirel.vt.edu/documents/2009-08-rmrecords.pdf) of Virginia Tech shooter Seung-Hui Cho were made public today by the university, offering thefirst glimpse (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=8365040) at the medical evaluations Cho underwent prior to committing the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history. (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3499534&page=1)
The records chronicle two telephone conversations and one in-person visit between Cho and mental health professionals (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048534) at the Cook Counseling Center, the university's student mental health services provider (http://abcnews.go.com/US/popup?id=3500271), in the winter of 2005, the only instances in which the student ever interacted with the center, according to authorities.
Throughout his visits with mental health professionals (http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3475267&page=1), Cho denied having any homicidal or suicidal thoughts, according to documents.
The in-person consultation at the center followed Cho's release from the psych ward at Carilion St. Albans hospital on Dec. 14, 2005. According to the documents, Cho had been admitted overnight to the hospital after his roommate became concerned when Cho threatened to take his own life. (http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Video/playerIndex?id=3542769)
"I met with student for about 30 minutes," wrote triage counselor Sherry Lynch Conrad on a Post-It note stuck to Cho's file dated Dec. 14, 2005, the day after his release. "He denied any suicidal or homicidal ideation. (http://abcnews.go.com/US/VATech/story?id=3061549&page=1)Said the comment he made was a joke. Says he has no reason to harm self and would never do it."
Even so, Conrad drew an "X" through the portion of the medical chart that assesses a patient's mental health, instead writing, "Did not assess -- student has had two previous triages in past two weeks -- last two days ago."
Conrad wrote that she provided Cho with emergency numbers should he begin to have "suicidal or homicidal thoughts" over winter break, but she did not schedule a follow-up appointment because Cho didn't "know his schedule."
Cho first made contact with the center on Nov. 30, 2005, when he was referred by a professor.
In the records from his initial telephone conversation, another triage counselor checked off "Troubled: Further contact within 2 weeks" under the portion of the form that rates the severity of the patient's disposition.
An in-person appointment was scheduled for Cho on Dec. 12, 2005, but when he failed to show up, another telephone consultation took place.
According to the documents, Cho indicated in the second phone conversation that his symptoms of depression and anxiety had persisted. He also said that he was having trouble concentrating.
That counselor's notes indicate that Cho said that "he did not want to come in at this time," despite his symptoms.
This is the first time the public has seen the notes of three separate therapists who counseled Cho.
On April 16, 2007, Cho killed 32 people and then himself on the Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg, Va., making the school the site of the deadliest shooting in U.S. history and the focal point for a renewed debate over gun control and mental health services.
In a written statement released in conjunction with the medical records, Virginia Tech released a statement saying the university believes the center's counselors acted "appropriately in their evaluation of Cho."

[oldno7]

But can anyone complain, when it has become acceptable for mental health care providers to focus on handing out government funds to family and friends.

How could these overworked folks possibly have enough time to address patients needs.

[oldno7]

28/29 Who's the holdout? Looks to be Salt Lake.

Just wanted to add--I'm glad I live in a county that feels it is important to safeguard the 2nd Amendment.

If I was in SL, I would be writing letters..........

http://www.utahsheriffs.org/USA-Home_files/2nd%20Amendment%20Letter.pdf

[Iceaxe]

The problem with mental health and guns is the doctor - patient confidentiality agreement. I was talking with a gun loving doctor friend last night and he mentioned he currently has two patients that he would not let have guns if he was somehow allowed to submit their name into a background check. He said these two patients scare the crap outta him and there is currently nothing he can do.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[oldno7]

The problem with mental health and guns is the doctor - patient confidentiality agreement. I was talking with a gun loving doctor friend last night and he mentioned he currently has two patients that he would not let have guns if he was somehow allowed to submit their name into a background check. He said these two patients scare the crap outta him and there is currently nothing he can do.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Somewhat of a conundrum, huh....

Do we eliminate the sanctity of Dr./Patients confidentiality to feel safer?

Or do we abolish the 2nd Amendment to feel safer....?

I personally don't like either option.

The minute the medical profession can prescribe "law", we are in real trouble.

[oldno7]

And please keep in mind--zero is placing the onus on eric holder to determine the definition of "dangerous people"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think "dangerous people" are ones who would send thousands of weapons to drug cartels.
Those who send thousands of weapons to drug cartels(holder) would likely consider me dangerous.

[oldno7]

Tiananmen Square Protestor Speaks on 2nd Amendment


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=miEmIfhfxuc

[oldno7]

Terror Threat in PA.

I've always suspected the "hello kitty' models were dangerous.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/01/kindergartner-suspended-over-bubble-gun-threat/

[oldno7]

And what happens when these terrorist get their hands on the full auto version, the horror........

[Sombeech]

63016

[oldno7]

Ted tells it:2thumbs:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ilUKCqmXwTQ#!

[oldno7]

Ted on putting biden and holder in charge of a gun task force...


"He then criticized the leadership of Obama's gun violence task force, saying that putting "crazy uncle" Biden and Attorney General Eric Holder in charge was akin to "hiring [serial killer] Jeffrey Dahmer to tell us to how to take care of our children."

[Iceaxe]

The insanity continues.....

Today I sold a customized Ruger 10-22 for $1250. At Thanksgiving the rifle was worth half that much.

Also recently received letters from Ruger and Midway saying they were sorry to be out of product and they expect at least six months before they will have more.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Brian in SLC]

Ted on putting biden and holder in charge of a gun task force...

Using a draft dodger and pedophile to support any position with regard to anything seems silly to me...

Maybe he's got you in a stranglehold, baby...

[oldno7]

Using a draft dodger and pedophile to support any position with regard to anything seems silly to me...

Maybe he's got you in a stranglehold, baby...

Citations??

nice pun though.

[oldno7]

How bout' "credible" citations.

If these had in fact been true, a person of his outspokenness would have long ago been assassinated by a media that hates him.

[oldno7]

This kind of reminds me of my bil, who said he couldn't vote for Romney because he had held down a gay guy and cut his hair.

But he had seen 4 affidavits saying it was true.....:lol8:

[oldno7]

Here, Brian, This one is guaranteed true, I promise.....

Alex Jones said it's true

http://www.prisonplanet.com/nobel-peace-prize-nominee-obama-asks-military-leaders-if-they-will-fire-on-us-citizens.html

[Bootboy]

The insanity continues.....

Today I sold a customized Ruger 10-22 for $1250. At Thanksgiving the rifle was worth half that much.

Also recently received letters from Ruger and Midway saying they were sorry to be out of product and they expect at least six months before they will have more.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Gotta search out the deals.

Scored a mini 14 for $799 this week.

[oldno7]

The insanity continues.....

Today I sold a customized Ruger 10-22 for $1250. At Thanksgiving the rifle was worth half that much.

Also recently received letters from Ruger and Midway saying they were sorry to be out of product and they expect at least six months before they will have more.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

If it was pink, you might get your Dad card revoked.

Unless the money was used to buy 4 new ones:haha:

[Iceaxe]

recently received letters from Ruger and Midway saying they were sorry to be out of product and they expect at least six months before they will have more.

Also a similar letter from Brownell's. Looks like anything related to firearms will be pretty scarce for at least six months.



Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[oldno7]

Using a draft dodger and pedophile to support any position with regard to anything seems silly to me...

Maybe he's got you in a stranglehold, baby...

Didn't you support Clinton??

Want me to round up some draft dodging citations?

As far a pedophilia, Clinton would likely make a Catholic priest blush.

yea--I'll stick with uncle Ted

[oldno7]

Heres a AR cleaning procedure, done step by step.:2thumbs:

NSWF--MIGHT SEE IMAGES SIMILAR TO GIRLS IN SWIMSUITS--NSWF

http://www.eyehandy.com/sports/how-to-field-strip-and-clean-an-ar-15-rifle-with-ashley/

[Brian in SLC]

yea--I'll stick with uncle Ted

He can represent your values, but, although I like me some old school Nug rock-n-roll, I wouldn't get my political opinion from that feller. The dude is a sleazebag on a whole bunch of levels. If he represents your demographic, well, then, good luck, 'cause your opinion is worth about as much as his (which is less than nothing).

[oldno7]

He can represent your values, but, although I like me some old school Nug rock-n-roll, I wouldn't get my political opinion from that feller. The dude is a sleazebag on a whole bunch of levels. If he represents your demographic, well, then, good luck, 'cause your opinion is worth about as much as his (which is less than nothing).

I will stick with Ted as it relates to this topic.

My political opinion on the 2nd Amendment hardly comes from Ted, he just so happens to re enforce it.

Thanks for the insinuations, you used to have valid opinions, now all you have is un valid attacks, well done:2thumbs:

[Sandstone Addiction]

The dude is a GREAT AMERICAN on a whole bunch of levels.

Here, fixed it for ya. :cool2:

[Brian in SLC]

I prefer Clinton to Nugent, the same way I prefer a student deferment to the draft to someone shitting in their pants.

Yeah ya did!

[oldno7]

This just in from the UK


Chilling array of weapons seized

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2265946/West-Midlands-Police-Array-weapons-seized-police-force-anti-violence-crackdown.html

I can almost feel the relief Britons must be experiencing, from here.

Chilling, indeed!!!!:lol8:

Watch those scissors, careful with the baseball bat....

[Iceaxe]

Id be a lot happier if Ted would remain a little less visible and let others do the talking. His name calling type crap doesn't help the cause. It's really unprofessional and better suited to an internet forum :-)

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[double moo]

From the Dailymail UK -

The force launched its 'Knives End Lives' campaign in a bid to further reduce knife crime in the region.

Superintendent Basit Javid said: 'It is illegal to carry a knife in public and if, like me, people believe that one knife related crime is one too many, they must make a stand and come forward with information which will help us tackle the problem.
'

That's some good stuff right there... Thanks Oldno

[Iceaxe]

Speaking of stupid people who would be wise to STFU and let those in the know do the talking... you can now add the Chicago Tribune....

Chicago Tribune Says Sling Loop On AR-15 Can Be Used to Attach Grenade Launcher or Turn Gun Into a Spear

The media is almost never uses proper terminology when referring to anything firearms related, but this one takes the cake.

The Chicago Tribune has published the following image in their paper incorrectly highlighting a sling sloop, calling it a bayonet lug.

They go on to say that the bayonet lug (sling loop) can be used to turn the gun into a spear or attach a grenade launcher (at least they acknowledge that grenade launchers are illegal for the general public).

63039

[2065toyota]

63051

[accadacca]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk_atC3_n_Q&sns=em

[Byron]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYtR21qSTPuv63PhNRdrC3jRwTGlRiM JLxwURr-h1-uRobr6i5jQ

[Sombeech]

From an email so it's probably true.



Ft.


Hood ~~~ Registered Democrat ~ Muslim



Columbine ~~~ Too young to vote, but both families were registered Democrats

and Progressive Liberals.



Virginia Tech ~~~ Wrote hate mail to President Bush and to his staff; was a

Registered Democrat.



Colorado Theater ~~~ Registered Democrat, staff worker on the Obama

campaign, Occupy Wall Street participant, Progressive Liberal.



Connecticut School Shooter ~~~ Registered Democrat; hated Christians.


But is it?

[double moo]

From an email so it's probably true.


Ft.


Hood ~~~ Registered Democrat ~ Muslim



Columbine ~~~ Too young to vote, but both families were registered Democrats

and Progressive Liberals.



Virginia Tech ~~~ Wrote hate mail to President Bush and to his staff; was a

Registered Democrat.



Colorado Theater ~~~ Registered Democrat, staff worker on the Obama

campaign, Occupy Wall Street participant, Progressive Liberal.



Connecticut School Shooter ~~~ Registered Democrat; hated Christians.


But is it?

This info was part of a video a few pages back. I'd like to know if it's true also... just to lazy to research it myself.

[Sombeech]

If all 5 were conservatives, you could be DAMNED sure it would have made headlines

[Brian in SLC]

If all 5 were conservatives, you could be DAMNED sure it would have made headlines

And, if they all were liberal, you could say the same.

What they all were? Male.

We need to ban the fragile male ego.

Ta da! Problem solved. Next!

[oldno7]

California Schools purchase firearms, and so it begins.

http://news.yahoo.com/fontana-calif-schools-high-powered-rifles-184934771.html

[oldno7]

I find it slightly ironic, when a government entity purchases these high powered murder everybody assault rifles---

They are merely called "semi-automatic rifles........

The irony/hypocrisy is thick and prevalent.

Ted for Prez.:2thumbs:

[Iceaxe]

What they all were? Male.

We need to ban the fragile male ego.

Ta da! Problem solved. Next!


Actually.... if you are serious about connecting the dots the one item that really stands out is all had been treated at one time or anther for mental illness.

But yeah, I get it.... much easier to blame the Democrats. :roll:

[oldno7]

Actually.... if you are serious about connecting the dots the one item that really stands out is all had been treated at one time or anther for mental illness.

But yeah, I get it.... much easier to blame the Democrats. :roll:

Agree--mental issues are the tie, but that doesn't sound as good as "assault weapons"

[oldno7]

So heres fineswines attempt at banning everything, read it carefully, words matter, I've already spotted some veiled attempts.


Assault Weapons Ban of 2013

Mass shootings in Newtown, Aurora, and Tucson have demonstrated all too clearly the need to regulate military-style assault weapons and high capacity ammunition magazines. These weapons allow a gunman to fire a large number of rounds quickly and without having to reload.



The legislation bans the sale, transfer, manufacturing and importation of:

 All semiautomatic rifles that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: pistol grip; forward grip; folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; barrel shroud; or threaded barrel.



 All semiautomatic pistols that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: threaded barrel; second pistol grip; barrel shroud; capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip; or semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.



 All semiautomatic rifles and handguns that have a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.



 All semiautomatic shotguns that have a folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; pistol grip; fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 5 rounds; ability to accept a detachable magazine; forward grip; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; or shotgun with a revolving cylinder.



 All ammunition feeding devices (magazines, strips, and drums) capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.



 157 specifically-named firearms (listed at the end of this document).



The legislation excludes the following weapons from the bill:

 Any weapon that is lawfully possessed at the date of the bill’s enactment;

 Any firearm manually operated by a bolt, pump, lever or slide action;

 Assault weapons used by military, law enforcement, and retired law enforcement; and

 Antique weapons.



The legislation protects hunting and sporting firearms:

 The bill excludes 2,258 legitimate hunting and sporting rifles and shotguns by specific make and model.

The legislation strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and state bans by:



 Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test.



o The bill also makes the ban harder to evade by eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test.



 Banning dangerous aftermarket modifications and workarounds.



o Bump or slide fire stocks, which are modified stocks that enable semi-automatic weapons to fire at rates similar to fully automatic machine guns.



o So-called “bullet buttons” that allow the rapid replacement of ammunition magazines, frequently used as a workaround to prohibitions on detachable magazines.



o Thumbhole stocks, a type of stock that was created as a workaround to avoid prohibitions on pistol grips.



 Adding a ban on the importation of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines.



 Eliminating the 10-year sunset that allowed the original federal ban to expire.



The legislation addresses the millions of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines currently in existence by:



 Requiring a background check on all sales or transfers of a grandfathered assault weapon.



o This background check can be run through the FBI or, if a state chooses, initiated with a state agency, as with the existing background check system.



 Prohibiting the sale or transfer of large-capacity ammunition feeding devices lawfully possessed on the date of enactment of the bill.



 Allowing states and localities to use federal Byrne JAG grant funds to conduct a voluntary buy-back program for grandfathered assault weapons and large-capacity ammunition feeding devices.



 Imposing a safe storage requirement for grandfathered firearms, to keep them away from prohibited persons.



 Requiring that assault weapons and large-capacity ammunition feeding devices manufactured after the date of the bill’s enactment be engraved with the serial number and date of manufacture of the weapon





Assault Weapon Bans Have Been Proven to Be Effective



The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban was effective at reducing crime and getting these military-style weapons off our streets. Since the ban expired, more than 350 people have been killed and more than 450 injured by these weapons.



 A Justice Department study of the assault weapons ban found that it was responsible for a 6.7% decrease in total gun murders, holding all other factors equal.



Source: Jeffrey A. Roth & Christopher S. Koper, “Impact Evaluation of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994,” (March 1997).



 The same study also found that “Assault weapons are disproportionately involved in murders with multiple victims, multiple wounds per victim, and police officers as victims.”



 The use of assault weapons in crime declined by more than two-thirds by about nine years after 1994 Assault Weapons Ban took effect.



o Source: Christopher S. Koper, “An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003” (June 2004), University of Pennsylvania, Report to the National Institute of Justice, U.S. Department of Justice.



 The percentage of firearms seized by police in Virginia that had high-capacity magazines dropped significantly during the ban. That figure has doubled since the ban expired.



o Source: David S. Fallis and James V. Grimaldi, “In Virginia, high-yield clip seizures rise,” Washington Post, at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/22/AR2011012204046.html



 When Maryland imposed a more stringent ban on assault pistols and high-capacity magazines in 1994, it led to a 55% drop in assault pistols recovered by the Baltimore Police Department.



o Source: Douglas S. Weil & Rebecca C. Knox, Letter to the Editor, The Maryland Ban on the Sale of Assault Pistols and High-Capacity Magazines: Estimating the Impact in Baltimore, 87 Am. J. of Public Health 2, Feb. 1997..



 37% of police departments reported seeing a noticeable increase in criminals’ use of assault weapons since the 1994 federal ban expired.



o Source: Police Executive Research Forum, Guns and Crime: Breaking New Ground by Focusing on the Local Impact (May 2010).



List of Firearms Prohibited by Name

Rifles: All AK types, including the following: AK, AK47, AK47S, AK–74, AKM, AKS, ARM, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR–47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms AK–47, VEPR, WASR–10, and WUM, IZHMASH Saiga AK, MAADI AK47 and ARM, Norinco 56S, 56S2, 84S, and 86S, Poly Technologies AK47 and AKS; All AR types, including the following: AR–10, AR–15, Armalite M15 22LR Carbine, Armalite M15–T, Barrett REC7, Beretta AR–70, Bushmaster ACR, Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster MOE series, Bushmaster XM15, Colt Match Target Rifles, DoubleStar AR rifles, DPMS Tactical Rifles, Heckler & Koch MR556, Olympic Arms, Remington R–15 rifles, Rock River Arms LAR–15, Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles, Stag Arms AR rifles, Sturm, Ruger & Co. SR556 rifles; Barrett M107A1; Barrett M82A1; Beretta CX4 Storm; Calico Liberty Series; CETME Sporter; Daewoo K–1, K–2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN Herstal FAL, LAR, 22 FNC, 308 Match, L1A1 Sporter, PS90, SCAR, and FS2000; Feather Industries AT–9; Galil Model AR and Model ARM; Hi-Point Carbine; HK–91, HK–93, HK–94, HK–PSG–1 and HK USC; Kel-Tec Sub–2000, SU–16, and RFB; SIG AMT, SIG PE–57, Sig Sauer SG 550, and Sig Sauer SG 551; Springfield Armory SAR–48; Steyr AUG; Sturm, Ruger Mini-14 Tactical Rife M–14/20CF; All Thompson rifles, including the following: Thompson M1SB, Thompson T1100D, Thompson T150D, Thompson T1B, Thompson T1B100D, Thompson T1B50D, Thompson T1BSB, Thompson T1–C, Thompson T1D, Thompson T1SB, Thompson T5, Thompson T5100D, Thompson TM1, Thompson TM1C; UMAREX UZI Rifle; UZI Mini Carbine, UZI Model A Carbine, and UZI Model B Carbine; Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78; Vector Arms UZI Type; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine.



Pistols: All AK–47 types, including the following: Centurion 39 AK pistol, Draco AK–47 pistol, HCR AK–47 pistol, IO Inc. Hellpup AK–47 pistol, Krinkov pistol, Mini Draco AK–47 pistol, Yugo Krebs Krink pistol; All AR–15 types, including the following: American Spirit AR–15 pistol, Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol, DoubleStar Corporation AR pistol, DPMS AR–15 pistol, Olympic Arms AR–15 pistol, Rock River Arms LAR 15 pistol; Calico Liberty pistols; DSA SA58 PKP FAL pistol; Encom MP–9 and MP–45; Heckler & Koch model SP-89 pistol; Intratec AB–10, TEC–22 Scorpion, TEC–9, and TEC–DC9; Kel-Tec PLR 16 pistol; The following MAC types: MAC–10, MAC–11; Masterpiece Arms MPA A930 Mini Pistol, MPA460 Pistol, MPA Tactical Pistol, and MPA Mini Tactical Pistol; Military Armament Corp. Ingram M–11, Velocity Arms VMAC; Sig Sauer P556 pistol; Sites Spectre; All Thompson types, including the following: Thompson TA510D, Thompson TA5; All UZI types, including: Micro-UZI.



Shotguns: Franchi LAW–12 and SPAS 12; All IZHMASH Saiga 12 types, including the following: IZHMASH Saiga 12, IZHMASH Saiga 12S, IZHMASH Saiga 12S EXP–01, IZHMASH Saiga 12K, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–030, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–040 Taktika; Streetsweeper; Striker 12.



Belt-fed semiautomatic firearms: All belt-fed semiautomatic firearms including TNW M2HB.

[oldno7]

NOW--on to page 60+

[Brian in SLC]

Actually.... if you are serious about connecting the dots the one item that really stands out is all had been treated at one time or anther for mental illness.

Yep.

We were kickin' idears around at the lunch table. Instead of registering guns...what about people in possession of such? You could drive any car, but, to operate one on public property, you need a valid license.

Then, we could argue about the requirements for such a license. A nice long juicy psyche exam...ha ha. Discriminating questions such as: Yes, I'm afraid of my government. Yes, I'm paranoid that my neighbors are out to get me. Yes, I'm afraid of random strangers breaking into my house and I need this 30 round magazine to protect myself. Yes, I shop at JC Penny with an assault rifle on my back and I don't think I appear threatening. Yes, I like Ted Nugent's politics. Yes, I hate Piers Morgan. Yes, I call the president elect "Barry", or "zero", or whatever other disrespectful names my talk shows come up with. Yes, I think its cool when someone flys an American flag upside down.

We could keep guns out of the hands of crazies no problemo...ha ha....

[oldno7]

easy to see the closet progressive got outed.......Sad to see their breakdown when they have no valid points...(hope you find some drugs for the cure)I've seen in the past where you guys like to perform mass murders...oohhh and you have an AR.......


Heres something "worth" reading.

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2013-01-23.html

[accadacca]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/530711_217433151715061_1756798909_n.jpg

[oldno7]

And those who get so defensive about things done under the first Amendment, Want to wipe out the 2nd.

but thats how progressives are, they see the Constitution as an outdated, inconvenient rag that just gets in the way of progress.

Strange......

[oldno7]

despite what polls zero and his minions made up to deceive folks, here is an actual NRA poll. Taken Jan. 13-14 2013

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2013/1/survey-finds-nra-members-united.aspx?s&st&ps

[Iceaxe]

We were kickin' idears around at the lunch table. Instead of registering guns...what about people in possession of such? You could drive any car, but, to operate one on public property, you need a valid license.

I get what you are saying.... but there is a big difference between guns and cars... at least in legal terms...

Owning and operating a gun is a right.... owning and driving a car is a privilege....

That damn Second Amendment is always getting in the way.... har-har...

[Brian in SLC]

Heres something "worth" reading.

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2013-01-23.html

Ann Coulter's "worth" is debatable, but, her article is pretty interesting on a number of fronts. I agree with some, and, disagree with other of her points.

I hope congress (not just the "libs" or "progressives" or "leftys" or "socialists" or insert your own self serving label here) does pass some meaningful legislation with regard to mental health. That seems to be in the works. Time will tell. So, I disagree with her point about that.

I agree that in some, especially western states, congress fellers like Harry Reid and our own Jim M would have a hard time voting for most any fairly restrictive gun control legislation. Their memories following the shift in balance from the fallout from the 1994 ban is still fairly fresh. Congress will bog down on this gun control thing, no doubt. For better or worse.

Soccer moms are a voting block. They're probably less concerned about gun control than issues regarding women's health, and, that played out so well for the Republicans this last go 'round.

Revolvers aren't semi automatics. Neither are bolt action, lever action, pump action, etc rifles.

Yeah, worrying about bayonet lugs is silly. Obama isn't "terrified" of them though. That's plain silly.

I'd have no idear if most schizophrenics know if they need help or not. My limited data, living with a person with schizophrenia, and, hanging out with someone who most of the homeless population knew ("go see your case worker" she'd yell at them when they were on the street corner looking for a handout) doesn't really help me figure that one out. My bet, from a privacy standpoint, most folks would be nervious about medical records in the hands of the gov't. I guess the insurance companies already know what ills you got, so, thank goodness for them covering pre-existing conditions now...

Go Max Baucus! Geez, I think he was in congress when I lived in Montana years ago. Seems like a nice feller (rode next to him on the airplane once). We like that new governer in Montana too. Beats havin' bumper stickers that read, "my governer is dumber than your governer".

[Brian in SLC]

Owning and operating a gun is a right.... owning and driving a car is a privilege....

That damn Second Amendment is always getting in the way.... har-har...

Yep. A right that should be "a well regulated" one... har har. Ahhh, those first three little words. Time for someone to misquote the federalist papers or George Washington now...

[oldno7]

Yep. A right that should be "a well regulated" one... har har. Ahhh, those first three little words. Time for someone to misquote the federalist papers or George Washington now...

Let me help you with a quote you should read at least once. It is contained in DC V. Heller
Ya know--one of those inconvenient FACTS, backing the BOR

The Supreme Court held:[43] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller#cite_note-43)
(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

[Brian in SLC]

Let me help you with a quote you should read at least once. It is contained in DC V. Heller
Ya know--one of those inconvenient FACTS, backing the BOR

The Supreme Court held:[43] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller#cite_note-43)
(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

Yeah, I don't most folks care if you've been in a militia or not. Just that you are "well regulated".

[oldno7]

Yeah, I don't most folks care if you've been in a militia or not. Just that you are "well regulated".

I know most say I ain't got good grammar. So I'll ask you---
Do comma's mean anything?

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

I guess I fail to see anything about the people being well regulated.

A well regulated militia,,,,,,,,,,(comma)

The Right of the PEOPLE to keep(that means keep what is ours)and bear(that means we the people can carry/bear arms)SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

[oldno7]

These sentiments are backed by 2 recent Supreme court rulings!

Do you have anything with substance?

[accadacca]

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/v/565250_4842345895158_311634974_n.jpg?oh=da3ba269fd 5f7d2c1a0299a0976acc5d&oe=510362CB&__gda__=1359197858_f525c07010190a887428e553ecf5f36 5

[oldno7]

Reagan had Alzheimer's from 1989. I don't hold anything against him from that point.(because we all now the anti-gun folks next mis-conception)

So heres a clip from him that shows that nothing has changed in this Country.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=QK3Eo9cScEQ&NR=1

[oldno7]

relevance here as well


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNI9kcElowo

[Iceaxe]

Ahhh, those first three little words.

You still beating that dead horse? :deadhorse:

Com'on Brian... you are better then that.... I know we have covered the issue at least three times in this thread... you might disagree with the Supreme Courts interpretation of the the 2nd Amendment... but it's the law of the land until the Amendment is changed or the Supreme Court reverses its self.

[stefan]

since y'all like to cite heller ...

from the syllabus of DC vs Heller ...

[quote]Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court

[BruteForce]

As a ~10 year veteran of the US Army, and ardent gun owner, I'm an tired and sickened by this conversation. I think its clear there was no AR-15 used in CT; in fact, I'm not even positive the shootings occurred but instead were a drill by Homeland Security (plenty of YouTube videos to represent this case).

AR does NOT equal Assault Rifle. AR was coined because Armalite created the AR-15. Politicians decided that "Assault Rifle" would garner votes for those opposed to semi-auto rifles.

It sickening and sad when anti-gun liberals scream for bans, but when the shit-hits-the-fan, they either come "out of the closet" declaring themselves as gun owners, or they hide behind a gun wielding police officer. So many of my neighbors don't have guns, but many of them have asked if they could be in my basement when he shit hits.

Liberal asshats: When the timing doesn't work for you, you can support just about anything, but when the timing is against you, you will ETADIK to take care of things.

[Iceaxe]

since y'all like to cite heller ...

from the syllabus of DC vs Heller ...


I'm not sure where you are going with this? :ne_nau:

Unless you are suggesting an AR-15 is not in common use or is a dangerous or unusual weapon.

I don't see anyone that disagrees with what you quoted. I only see folks defending what you quoted.

:popcorn:

[oldno7]

I'm not sure where you are going with this? :ne_nau:

Unless you are suggesting an AR-15 is not in common use or is a dangerous or unusual weapon.

I don't see anyone that disagrees with what you quoted. I only see folks defending what you quoted.

:popcorn:

Yep

Hit and run again.

Even Tom understood that which stefan tries to argue.

I guess stefan was trying to make a point??:ne_nau:

[oldno7]

I think the progressives are intellectually bankrupt on this issue and heres why....

They are not vested because, they have nothing to lose. Nobody is trying to cleverly relinquish their property.

If someone was, they would certainly comply.

They have NO idea that there are people, including local agencies(sheriff) willing to die to defend the 2nd Amendment. (read the Utah Sheriffs Assoc. letter to obama.

Gun owners are backed into a corner right now and the majority will not fold.

[Byron]

"Call 911" is what they say to do. Yeah...well, when you do that, who shows up? That's right...MEN WITH GUNS. They also arrive in some cases to draw a chalk line around the body.

Personally, I'm in absolutely no mood whatsoever to have a debate or "rational" discussion or reach some kind of compromise on this...all of you gun hating idiots can KMA. I haven't seen anything...and I mean ANYTHING from the gun control crowd worthy of merit, not even regarding the mental health issue. This thread, like Brute said, is pretty pathetic because those on the wrong side of this friggin' thing just won't give an inch.

Funny, I've seen Oldno, Ice, RG, Beech and virtually the whole "non left" crew (myself included) acknowledge when straight up common sense is presented by anyone. In this regard, at least, you liberal types are completely out of your minds...I think you all now damn well you're wrong. I think you're just getting a kick out of poking Oldno and Ice with a stick. I think I'll enjoy a liberal steak sandwich if and when the duke hits the fan, because you weaklings are going to be the first ones served up.

That's it...rant over. Buy a gun to defend yourself, if you're smart. Support gun rights, if you're smarter.

[Scott Card]

I am not about to search to see if this has been posted but I received this via email.....:haha:

http://www.bookwormroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/image.jpg

[Scott Card]

"Call 911" is what they say to do. Yeah...well, when you do that, who shows up? That's right...MEN WITH GUNS. They also arrive in some cases to draw a chalk line around the body.. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

[oldno7]

Heres a little support to my intellectually bankrupt thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=i05pvOE5ZNM&feature=player_embedded&list=FL6xBhF 4QYIPPF2_-ExZzd2w

[Iceaxe]

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

It took the police over 20 minutes to respond to Sandy Hooks after the first 911 call was received.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Byron]

Heres a little support to my intellectually bankrupt thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=i05pvOE5ZNM&feature=player_embedded&list=FL6xBhF 4QYIPPF2_-ExZzd2wMy God...what a NIMROD!!! And this guy is one of the most powerful people on the planet. Like I've said many times before, elections matter...they really do...we could have been rid of this fool. What a tragedy.

[accadacca]

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
Welcome to the conversation! You are way behind and would be proud to read the pages on this one. We've really stayed on track and its been a great conversation. :popcorn:

[oldno7]

So I summed up joes "points":

Buy Shotgun shells, they kill better
Assault weapons count for a small percentage of gun crimes in America
More people are killed with glocks than assault weapons, they have 2,10,8,12,15,30, shells in it
less concerned with assault weapons than magazine size
150 rds fired in Newtown, with 10 shell(per mag?) they would have had to swap out 30 times;or-um swap out 25 times( 150 divided by 10 equals??ah, never mind)
no sporting need for 50 rounds
FBI says it takes 1 3/4 sec to switch out a mag, so in Newtown, if the guy had 10 rd mags, it would have taken 2-3 minutes longer.

So--reality--4-mag changes=7 seconds
Joe--if 10 rds per mag(which would be 15 mags)a difference of 11 changes=2-3 minutes( I get 193/4 sec) With 11 @ 13/4=26.25 seconds.
Of course joe points out that is a pro. So if we go wild here and say 5 seconds @ 11changes, this would cut 55 seconds out of the equation.
Very Good Points, brought up by the VICE PRESIDENT of the United States, who happens to have chaired a panel on gun control.

Intellectually Bankrupt!

[Sombeech]

Heres a little support to my intellectually bankrupt thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=i05pvOE5ZNM&feature=player_embedded&list=FL6xBhF 4QYIPPF2_-ExZzd2w

If you do not have a good answer to a direct question:

Talk a lot
Don't let the questioner point out you are not in any way close to answering the question
Keep talking
Talk until the time runs out

[Sombeech]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/530711_217433151715061_1756798909_n.jpg


:roflol::roflol::roflol:

[oldno7]

If you do not have a good answer to a direct question:

Talk a lot
Don't let the questioner point out you are not in any way close to answering the question
Keep talking
Talk until the time runs out



Beech, I found the response from the moderator:haha:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5hfYJsQAhl0

[Sombeech]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/530711_217433151715061_1756798909_n.jpg


:roflol::roflol::roflol:

This simply cannot go without being reposted

[accadacca]

http://freedomslighthouse.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/bidendebate.jpg

[accadacca]

Dude is just batshit crazy...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbvJ-fXRXUg&sns=em

[Brian in SLC]

As a ~10 year veteran of the US Army, and ardent gun owner, I'm an tired and sickened by this conversation. I think its clear there was no AR-15 used in CT; in fact, I'm not even positive the shootings occurred but instead were a drill by Homeland Security (plenty of YouTube videos to represent this case).

I think its clear that a Bushmaster AR-15 type rifle was used and that the shootings really did occur. Really.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Sandy-Hook-Gunman-Had-4-Guns-State-Police-188031071.html

Asshats and etadik, eh?

Hmmm.

[Sombeech]

I think its clear that a Bushmaster AR-15 type rifle was used and that the shootings really did occur. Really.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Sandy-Hook-Gunman-Had-4-Guns-State-Police-188031071.html

Asshats and etadik, eh?

Hmmm.

This article notes what was seized, not necessarily how either weapon was used.

[Iceaxe]

I think its clear that a Bushmaster AR-15 type rifle was used and that the shootings really did occur. Really.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Sandy-Hook-Gunman-Had-4-Guns-State-Police-188031071.html

Asshats and etadik, eh?

Hmmm.

All I have to say is if you believe anything about Sandy Hooks that has been released by law enforcement, government or media to date you are an idiot.

After Columbine it took the FBI 10 years to get the truth of what happened and wade through all the lies, misinformation and cover ups that occurred. To this day most people have no clue what really happened at Columbine and the amount of deceit that occurred, but only know the false stories that were spread immediately after the massacre.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[accadacca]

SLC police chief talks gun control in Washington
By Dave CawleyJanuary 28th, 2013 @ 9:15pm

http://img.ksl.com/slc/2251/225144/22514408.jpg

SALT LAKE CITY -- Salt Lake City's police chief sees easy access to firearms as one of the primary factors in the rash of mass shootings that have taken place across the United States in recent years and is supportive of proposed restrictions.

Chief Chris Burbank joined fellow law enforcement officials in addressing the topic with President Barack Obama Monday at the White House. Burbank serves as vice president for the Major Cities Chiefs Police Association and is in Washington, D.C. for the group's annual winter conference. He received the invitation only a short time before the meeting.

"It involved the leadership of the Major Cities Chiefs," Burbank said. "Unfortunately there were many people in the room who had experienced some violence in their own city."

That included the police chiefs from Newtown, Conn.; Aurora, Colo.; Oak Creek, Wis.; and Tucson, Ariz. among others.

"Kind of an infamous group, unfortunately," Burbank said. "Salt Lake City of course we had our own Trolley Square incident and then I honestly believe that we had another potential incident that because of a circumstance we were able to resolve and that was the shooter at one of our downtown hotels."

That is in reference to an Aug. 27, 2010 shootout between an AWOL soldier and Salt Lake City police officers outside the Grand America Hotel. The soldier, 28-year-old Brandon S. Barrett, arrived at the hotel in fatigues and body armor, carrying a .223-caliber assault rifle, two handguns and nearly 1,000 rounds of ammunition.

Hotel security denied him access to the building's upper levels. Officer Uppsen Downs then confronted Barrett across the street from the hotel, shooting and killing him.

While Barrett was a military member with firearms training, Burbank said he believes the public's access to such weapons is part of the larger problem.

"We need to do something to stem the violence, and part of that is access to firearms," he said. "I am not here to say, nor is any chief in the country, that firearms are completely to blame for it but it is certainly part of the problem."

President Obama offered weight to the perspective of law enforcement officials at the outset of the meeting, saying they are "where the rubber hits the road" when it comes to gun violence. He also used the opportunity to push for congressional action on universal background checks for gun buyers and a renewed ban on the sale of assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines.

Salt Lake City's chief sees that as a valid approach.

"I agree with the president from his position that if there is some way that we can save even one life or that we can prevent a tragedy like this from occurring then we certainly owe it to the nation to look at that and find out if that is an avenue that we need to take," Burbank said.

Also present at the meeting were leaders of the Major County Sheriffs' Association, along with Vice President Joe Biden, Attorney General Eric Holder and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano. Burbank said he did not come away from the meeting with the sense that any of the federal officials are interested in seizing weapons from the hands of law-abiding gun owners.

"There's not a piece of legislation that I've seen that said anyone, federal government or otherwise, is going to come and take firearms away," he said. "It all talks about future restrictions on access."

Both Burbank and Obama pointed out that gun violence is not only restricted to the so-called "active shooter" attempting to kill many people at once in a crowded area. Burbank, for his part, said too many people die each day in shootings.

"There needs to be some responsibility of not only police chiefs and sheriffs, but of politicians and the public in general needs to stand up and say

[oldno7]

Father of Sandy Hook child, killed in massacre.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5KaaVb4hFw

[oldno7]

This conversation is going on and the FBI director isn't sure if it's o.k. to kill Americans on US soil.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iaWyPsD5eEA

[oldno7]

And so--Now this administration has a problem with another Amendment -- VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

[Iceaxe]

63126

63124

63125

[Brian in SLC]

All I have to say is if you believe anything about Sandy Hooks that has been released by law enforcement, government or media to date you are an idiot.

Yeah, there's a gob of misinformation out there, quite confusing. I'm betting the source for some or most of it is self serving, though.

Note that CT updated the guns seized to help with any confusion:

http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284&A=4226

Clear as mud.

[Iceaxe]

Yeah, there's a gob of misinformation out there, quite confusing. I'm betting the source for some or most of it is self serving, though.

Talk about self-serving and meeting an agenda...

"Bushmaster .223 caliber-- model XM15-E2S rifle with high capacity 30 round magazine"

Is a quote from the report you linked. I have never heard professional law enforcement or military use the term "high capacity" when talking among their peers, it would be simply "30 round magazine". As we all know "high capacity" is a term coined by the pro gun control crowd as a scare tactic. I'll bet dollars to donuts the official report reads.

"Bushmaster .223 caliber-- model XM15-E2S rifle with 30 round magazine"

There is no need to toss in the scary "high capicity" term among professionals.

:cool2: YMMV

[Brian in SLC]

63134

The misinformation and disinformation machine is amazing. On both sides.

Yeah, "high capacity" and "30 rounds" is pretty redundant. And, its a common and fairly standard magazine size.

I dunno. Watching the coronor give report was pretty gutteral. I'm not sure how any rational and/or reasonable person could see that and think this whole thing was faked.

Be interesting to track down the sources of all these conflicting stories. The "he didn't use a Bushmaster" story has a bunch of traction. I wonder where that comes from? Does anyone have a vettable source?

[Iceaxe]

Be interesting to track down the sources of all these conflicting stories. The "he didn't use a Bushmaster" story has a bunch of traction. I wonder where that comes from? Does anyone have a vettable source?

I have no doubt the shooter had a Bushmaster (or a Bushmaster look-a-like).... my question from the conflicting stories would be "was the Bushmaster actually used or fired"?

Brian, you should read the book Columbine (http://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dave-Cullen/dp/0446546925/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359570511&sr=1-1&keywords=columbine)... one of the interesting parts of the book was the FBI agent who wrote the book tracked down the source of the miss-informationm and conflicts. I promise the book will not be a waste of your time and will answer some of the questions you have about Sandy Hooks.

:cool2:

[Brian in SLC]

I I promise the book will not be a waste of your time and will answer some of the questions you have about Sandy Hooks.

Actually, would probably raise more questions than answers!

Yeah, everyone I've talked to who read it said it was worthy. I'm in a book club (yeah, makes my man card vibrate a bit) and in the middle of Wind Sand and Stars right now (my pick), with several other reads I don't have time for stackin' up. Ugh.

[Iceaxe]

I have the audiobook version of Columbine in MP3 format if anyone wants to borrow my copy.

[rockgremlin]

Let me get this straight.... you guys walk around with a small hand-held devise capable of access all the worlds knowledge.... and you use this devise ramble on about guns?

[Iceaxe]

Let me get this straight.... you guys walk around with a small hand-held devise capable of access all the worlds knowledge.... and you use this devise to defend the US constitution.

Fixed that for you!

You're welcome.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Brian in SLC]

Rock to the G, that is one great avatar!

I can't get the standard redneck voice from Southpark out of my head..."Obama's gunna take our guuuuuns."

[Iceaxe]

I have now received letters back from all my congessmen. They were all similar to the one posted below. I also wrote the Utah Governer, Obama and Biden... none of them have responded to my letters yet.

:cool2:


January 30, 2013

Dear Mr. Burrows,

Thank you for contacting me about your Second Amendment rights. I am an advocate of constitutional rights, and value the time you took to express your thoughts.

I support the Second Amendment. As a proud member of the Congressional Sportsmen's Caucus, I will do all in my power to ensure that the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens are not infringed. As a gun owner and concealed carry permit holder myself, I value my right to bear arms, but also my duty to bear them responsibly.

It is deeply saddening when senseless acts of violence occur. These acts of violence, as terrible as they are, should not be used as justification to revoke rights outlined in the United States Constitution, and upheld and preserved by the highest court in the land.

Again, thank you again for contacting my office. Please feel free to sign up for e-updates by visiting www.chaffetz.house.gov (http://www.chaffetz.house.gov). You may also follow me on Twitter JasonInTheHouse.

Sincerely,
Jason Chaffetz
Member of Congress

[Iceaxe]

Bill Clinton warned the Democratic Party they would be making a big mistake to go after firearms. In a recent speech he told the party they would be losing a large number of seats at the mid-term elections if they didn't back off. This is the same Bill Clinton who signed the original Assault weapons ban and watched his party lose the House and Senate at the mid-term election.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo saw a double-digit drop in his approval rating after an aggressive push for new gun control laws, a sign of potential trouble ahead if Cuomo opts to make a push for the White House in 2016. Cuomo’s approval rating fell to 59 percent from an all-time high of 74 percent in the survey, conducted by Quinnipiac University.

More on Cuomo here: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/280091-poll-cuomo-support-dips-after-gun-control-push

[oldno7]

Just sent off another $500 to NRA

[ratagonia]

Let me get this straight.... you guys walk around with a small hand-held devise capable of access all the worlds knowledge.... and you use this devise ramble on about guns?

You forgot the fomenting armed rebellion part.

:moses:

[Iceaxe]

You forgot the fomenting armed rebellion part.

If they attempt to take away our constitutional rights... you bet... freedom has never been free, it's always paid for in blood. But since I know you are not much of a fighter I'll give you a little hint... it's always better when you can make it the other guys blood.

:flag:

[oldno7]

keep an eye on upstate NY--I've heard rumors that concord has been drifting 300+/- miles West.

[oldno7]

Apparently, now that NY has lost it's mind, some major manufactures are seeking more gun friendly states and many states want these large plants with jobs.

http://www.wktv.com/news/politics/Remington-Arms-debates-alternative-plan-if-plant-closes-189105181.html

Remington will only be the first to leave the NE.

[oldno7]

SenatorTed Cruz of Texas Letter to rahm of Chicago.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/122799297/Letter-from-Senator-Ted-Cruz-to-Chicago-Mayor-Rahm-Emanuel-Bank-of-America-TD-Bank-Group-Smith-Wesson-and-Sturm-Ruger-Co

[oldno7]

AZ To Remington

http://gosar.house.gov/sites/gosar.house.gov/files/ltr%20to%20Remington%201-16-13.pdf

[oldno7]

DHS--Use scissors or any weapon on hand---looks like a good training video on how to become a statistic.



http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trY oM


I prefer this scenario, this guy potentially saved dozens of lives, but we'll never know because the shooter offed himself when he saw the CC.
That as opposed to hiding under your desk and becoming a murder statistic.
It's not for everybody and everybody will handle a stressful situation differently, I'm not advocating some type of rambo adventure, merely pointing out that this guy saved lives, undoubtedly, and his story is not in the news, continually.

So I guess if in the moment you feel these are your last breaths of life here on earth and your method of defense is between a pair of scissors and a gun--I hope anyone unfortunate enough to be in this predicament, chooses wisely.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

[hank moon]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Georgia][FONT=Verdana]Fact-checking some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments shows they're full of holes.

[COLOR=#5E7185][FONT=Georgia][I]

[ratagonia]

Just sent off another $500 to NRA

Why would you send money to the lobbying arm of a 15 billion dollar industry?

Even if you agree with their positions, they don't need your money.

:moses:

[oldno7]

Why would you send money to the lobbying arm of a 15 billion dollar industry?

Even if you agree with their positions, they don't need your money.

:moses:

Why do you send money to suwa? their a multi million dollar conglomerate, flush with money from Hollywood.

[oldno7]

geez, hank where would one start on your list of innuendo?

How bout #9

there have been a record number of background checks in Dec. 2012, Jan. 2013

2.2 million in Dec.alone. Go look in a gun store--any gun store in the United States--THE SHELF'S ARE BARE. There are very few guns even available and less ammunition!!!!

Latest estimates are that 47% of households in the US, own guns. That translates into about 2-300 million individuals, own guns.(hardly decreasing #'s, especially since the greatest gun salesman of all time was re-elected in Nov.

Everything else you have is equally as week and completely un supported and completely ridiculous.

but hey--it is motherjones:roll:

[ratagonia]

geez, hank where would one start on your list of innuendo?

How bout #9

there have been a record number of background checks in Dec. 2012, Jan. 2013

2.2 million in Dec.alone. Go look in a gun store--any gun store in the United States--THE SHELF'S ARE BARE. There are very few guns even available and less ammunition!!!!

Latest estimates are that 47% of households in the US, own guns. That translates into about 2-300 million individuals, own guns.(hardly decreasing #'s, especially since the greatest gun salesman of all time was re-elected in Nov.

Everything else you have is equally as week and completely un supported and completely ridiculous.

but hey--it is motherjones:roll:

Jeeze Kurty. Might wanna sober up a little before responding.

Wikipedia: "As of January 1, 2013, the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) had a total resident population of 315,250,000"

47% of that is: 148,167,500 people in the US live in households that own guns. Not 2-300 million individuals, own guns. Unless you meant somewhere between 2 and 300million - rather a broad range. You seem to think that EVERYONE in a household that has a gunowner owns guns, plus at least 35% more!!!!

I know. Reading comprehension and spelling is not your strong point. That's fine. I've enjoyed your paranoid delusional ravings - heck no one plays the hysterical gun fetishist quite as well as you do - very convincing! Thanks for the entertainment.

Tom :moses:

[oldno7]

Why would you send money to the lobbying arm of a 15 billion dollar industry?

Even if you agree with their positions, they don't need your money.

:moses:

On another note--I upgraded my Life membership to Patron status and paid for 3 family members memberships.

If you haven't noticed(but I know you have) Numbers of Folks + Money= Power (maybe not un-defeat able,but Powerful)

And maybe this is the #1 Reason I spend money with the NRA

(from feinstine)The NRA is venal. They come after you, they put together large amounts of money to defeat you," she said on CNN's "State of the Union." "They did this in '93, and they intend to continue it."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/27/feinstein-nra-is-venal/?hpt=hp_t2

[oldno7]

Jeeze Kurty. Might wanna sober up a little before responding.

Wikipedia: "As of January 1, 2013, the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) had a total resident population of 315,250,000"

47% of that is: 148,167,500 people in the US live in households that own guns. Not 2-300 million individuals, own guns. Unless you meant somewhere between 2 and 300million - rather a broad range. You seem to think that EVERYONE in a household that has a gunowner owns guns, plus at least 35% more!!!!

I know. Reading comprehension and spelling is not your strong point. That's fine. I've enjoyed your paranoid delusional ravings - heck no one plays the hysterical gun fetishist quite as well as you do - very convincing! Thanks for the entertainment.

Tom :moses:

Well TOMMIE GIRL

Love it when you go to name calling, it is a sure guarantee that you have nothing!!!

they are only estimates, notice the spread, NOBODY knows the number and that is preferred.

The estimate was indeed between 2-300 million. Way to put the worthless college rag to work.(diploma:lol8:)

[oldno7]

Heres a cnn article that backs my claim of a record # of background checks

http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/28/news/economy/gun-background-checks/index.html

btw, tommie, over on this side of the mountain they sell diplomas like the one you have at walmart--by the roll..

how long you want to play this game?

[oldno7]

Jeeze Kurty. Might wanna sober up a little before responding.

Wikipedia: "As of January 1, 2013, the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) had a total resident population of 315,250,000"

47% of that is: 148,167,500 people in the US live in households that own guns. Not 2-300 million individuals, own guns. Unless you meant somewhere between 2 and 300million - rather a broad range. You seem to think that EVERYONE in a household that has a gunowner owns guns, plus at least 35% more!!!!

I know. Reading comprehension and spelling is not your strong point. That's fine. I've enjoyed your paranoid delusional ravings - heck no one plays the hysterical gun fetishist quite as well as you do - very convincing! Thanks for the entertainment.

Tom :moses:

and I know you like wiki, sweety so here ya go

Number of guns and gun owners in USA.Most estimates range between 39% and 50% of US households having at least one gun (that's about 43-55 million households). The estimates for the number of privately owned guns range from 190 million to 300 million. Removed those that skew the stats for their own purposes the best estimates are about 45% or 52 million of American households owning 260 million guns).

and delusional might be described as one who spends years in college and thought he would become something.:haha:

[Iceaxe]

Why would you send money to the lobbying arm of a 15 billion dollar industry?

Even if you agree with their positions, they don't need your money.

I sent the NRA a big check two weeks ago. You can never have to much money in the war chest or enough soldiers on the battlefield if it's something you believe in.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[rockgremlin]

Good Lord, you guys are KILLING me!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

[Bluff-Canyoneer]

AZ To Remington

http://gosar.house.gov/sites/gosar.house.gov/files/ltr%20to%20Remington%201-16-13.pdf

This would be the same Paul Gosar who had to change districts just to keep his job.
Hardly a revered figure in Arizona.

[oldno7]

This would be the same Paul Gosar who had to change districts just to keep his job.
Hardly a revered figure in Arizona.

Not to familiar with Gosar, he really isn't the subject. The subject is that Remington Arms, after 200 years in New York, is telling cuamo, they've had enough.

When I first heard of this, I sent a letter to my State Senator, he was unaware but very interested, He was going to pass the information to Brennan Wood and the Economic Development Agency.

I have a friend who's brother works for Chris Stewart. He called and Chris was asked if they new about Remington's intentions to leave New York, he was aware.
He suggested the proper channel is to send a letter to the Gov. of Utah and have him court Remington. I sent a letter to the Gov. yesterday.

So what I'm saying is the AZ. connection is no more important than the TX. connection or the TN.Connection or OK. and several others now.
States are courting Remington. Remington puts around fifty million into the upstate New York economy and employs around 1300(lost the exact figure)
Anyway, was thinking this sort of business is a shoe in for Utah, and acted upon that.

Doesn't really mean anything at this point,Herbert could not act on the information he has or something might become of it who knows:ne_nau:

Maybe Remington has put themselves out there to get some attention from it's home State and nothing more,I don't know but will gladly post if I hear anything back(unlikely)

[oldno7]

and in regards to the fued of words with tom--I've made it a point with him, to not fire unless fired upon(keeping with the theme of the thread):mrgreen:

but once fired upon, I will rise to the task and defend myself(in his case, sink to the level)

I don't see this thread going away until one side or the other is victorious.

[oldno7]

As far as the progressives claims that no ones going to take your guns. This has happened already in New York.

http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/LeRay-Man-Faces-Weapons-Possessions-Charges-185853881.html

gun owners have been contributing to his attorneys fee's

http://www.gofundme.com/1tkukc

I would think there is no shortage of attorneys to do this pro bono.

http://www.drum.army.mil/mountaineer/Article.aspx?ID=6283

[Sombeech]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi6gZU01yF8

[Iceaxe]

As far as the progressives claims that no ones going to take your guns. This has happened already in New York.

It also happened in New Orleans after Katrina. So the argument they are not coming for all your guns doesn't carry much weight.

Words don't mean shit, action means everything.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Brian in SLC]

The subject is that Remington Arms, after 200 years in New York, is telling cuamo, they've had enough.

Remington Arms' headquarters hasn't been in New York for some time. North Carolina.

Their ammo is Arkansas. They also have a firearms plant in Kentucky.

This ball kinda started rollin' when the Bushmaster owner sold off his company to the Freedom Group, which also picked up Remington, who was seriously in debt. I don't recall a huge battle cry when they closed the Bushmaster plant in Maine. Or a similar one when Marlin moved.

Tough when business times are a roller coaster. I've always associated Remington with their rifles and shot guns. And, my bet is their sales numbers for those items haven't been great in recent years. What has boomed, despite a lawsuit over Bushmaster (DC sniper) is their military style stuff, methinks. That New York has managed to maintain 1100 relatively high paying manufacturing related jobs through this economy is amazing and, maybe that's partly whats dragging them down? Easy enough to blame it on politics and laws changing. My bet is a look at their books would be fairly interesting.

Note that when Bushmaster closed their doors in Maine it caused, what, maybe 70 people to be out of work?

I dunno. What's more than likely dragging down Remington is that folks just aren't buying their bread and butter products like in years past. Huge competition too from all sorts of sources for rifles and shotguns, foreign and domestic and just not as many people hunt or shoot for fun anymore. It a tough market. Scroll through the Remington website and see the economic incentives the state of New York has given them. Fairly substantial.

Remington is for sale. Wonder how long they'll last and/or who will pick them up? Bain Capitol? Ha ha...

I think its a shame when iconic American companies go out of business. I'm a long time owner and user of Reminton products. My main hunting rifle, no finer off the rack production rifle than a model 700. Have had a Remington 870 since I was a kid and have owned several of them. 11-87 too. And, who ever made a single shot bolt action pistol finer than a Remington? No one. And, ammunition? I still have the leftovers of my dad's case of shotgun shells from the 60's. Paper hulls. Look at the cartridges with "Remington" in the name. Heckuva history.

Anyhoo....I think it ends up being more about economic times as anything. Heavy sigh...

Interesting statement from the Freedom Group:

Cerberus Capital Management Statement Regarding Freedom Group, Inc.
NEW YORK, Dec. 18, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- We were shocked and deeply saddened by the events that took place at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, CT on December 14, 2012. We cannot comprehend the losses suffered by the families and friends of those killed by the unthinkable crimes committed that day. No words or actions can lessen the enormity of this event or make a dent in the pain that was inflicted on so many.
In 2006 affiliates of Cerberus Capital Management, L.P. made a financial investment in Freedom Group. Freedom Group does not sell weapons or ammunition directly to consumers, through gun shows or otherwise. Sales are made only to federally licensed firearms dealers and distributors in accordance with applicable laws and regulations. We do not believe that Freedom Group or any single company or individual can prevent senseless violence or the illegal use or procurement of firearms and ammunition.
It is apparent that the Sandy Hook tragedy was a watershed event that has raised the national debate on gun control to an unprecedented level. The debate essentially focuses on the balance between public safety and the scope of the Constitutional rights under the Second Amendment. As a Firm, we are investors, not statesmen or policy makers. Our role is to make investments on behalf of our clients who are comprised of the pension plans of firemen, teachers, policemen and other municipal workers and unions, endowments, and other institutions and individuals. It is not our role to take positions, or attempt to shape or influence the gun control policy debate. That is the job of our federal and state legislators.
There are, however, actions that we as a firm can take. Accordingly, we have determined to immediately engage in a formal process to sell our investment in Freedom Group. We will retain a financial advisor to design and execute a process to sell our interests in Freedom Group, and we will then return that capital to our investors. We believe that this decision allows us to meet our obligations to the investors whose interests we are entrusted to protect without being drawn into the national debate that is more properly pursued by those with the formal charter and public responsibility to do so.
Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and communities impacted by this tragic and devastating event.

[oldno7]

yes, brian the original post provided a link in regards to a Remington manufacturing plant.

All of my correspondence has been in this regard.

Nothing mentioned about a headquarters move or that their Headquarters was in NY.

[oldno7]

Heres the link that was included in my original post, ya probably just missed it.........

http://www.wktv.com/news/politics/Remington-Arms-debates-alternative-plan-if-plant-closes-189105181.html

[Sandstone Addiction]

The debate essentially focuses on the balance between public safety and the scope of the Constitutional rights under the Second Amendment. As a Firm, we are investors, not statesmen or policy makers. Our role is to make investments on behalf of our clients who are comprised of the pension plans of firemen, teachers, policemen and other municipal workers and unions, endowments, and other institutions and individuals. It is not our role to take positions, or attempt to shape or influence the gun control policy debate.


I doubt Freedom Group will have any trouble finding a suitable buyer. It would be nice if they found an owner that loved the 2nd Amendment and was committed to getting Remington Arms back to being a premier American gun maker again.

Barnes Bullets in Mona is also part of the Freedom Group family.

[oldno7]

Watch New York, blood is boiling. Not allowed to open the meeting with the pledge of allegiance, didn't start things off right.

A mere tip of the iceberg!! Patriots


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ol1SzjHPFGw#!

[Sandstone Addiction]

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/644205_530382720329190_843312990_n.jpg



Saw this on facebook today...

[Byron]

Watch New York, blood is boiling. Not allowed to open the meeting with the pledge of allegiance, didn't start things off right.

A mere tip of the iceberg!! Patriots


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ol1SzjHPFGw#!Debat e is not allowed, as they passed the law without thinking it through but it doesn't matter...and BTW, we can't answer most of your questions either.

Politicians, generally speaking, are scum...but the liberals are truly at the very bottom of the outhouse. Once again, elections matter.

There's no way in hell the Governor or the stinking mayor of New York would face these people...it's too bad they interpret the "will of the people" without really regarding them, but then again, the next time these bozos are up for reelection the results will tell exactly what the deal is...are they right or wrong in making these laws? I hope to God the people there throw the bums out.

[James_B_Wads2000]

This thread makes me feel...

63200



James

[Pelon1]

http://www.deadseriousnews.com/tired-of-violence-doctor-offers-penile-enlargements-for-assault-rifles/

Stumbled upon this and thought of this thread?

[PunchKing]

http://www.deadseriousnews.com/tired-of-violence-doctor-offers-penile-enlargements-for-assault-rifles/

Stumbled upon this and thought of this thread?

So it is not a gun problem but a small penis problem, very interesting. I think the kind doctor in Beverly Hills 90210 has a great idea. Way better than a gun buy back. Maybe the new norm will be 12 inch members.... I wonder in a cost comparison if it would be cheaper for me to buy an rifle...

[Sombeech]

Will there be restrictions on rapid fire units?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Iceaxe]

I appears the attempt to ban "Assault Weapons" has been side tracked and is NOT going to happen. The gun control crowd finally wised up and noticed if they kept piling more crap on the wagon they were going to get nothing. It now appears they are going to attempt to go after the items they think they actually have a shot at... and the number one item on that list is universal firearm registration.

And just for the record.... never in the history of the world has there ever been a universal firearm registration that was not followed by confiscation.

:cool2:

[BruteForce]

universal firearm registration that was not followed by confiscation.

:cool2:

This would not end well, especially at my residence.

Doubtful it would come to this, because most FLEO, LEO, Military, former Military are gun owners and know each other. Small communities..

[James_B_Wads2000]

63235

Old lefty shoots a gun, debate over!

James

[Sandstone Addiction]

and the number one item on that list is universal firearm registration.

I would think that this would be even more unpopular than banning assault weapons. Even the fence riders don't want the feds knowing about their over/under shotgun.

[oldno7]

Old lefty shoots a gun, debate over!63235



James

I see you got the picture after it was corrected in photoshop, I have a copy of the original.....

[James_B_Wads2000]

I see you got the picture after it was corrected in photoshop, I have a copy of the original.....

Nice!!!



James

[BasinCruiser]

I see you got the picture after it was corrected in photoshop, I have a copy of the original.....

:haha::haha::haha:

That's the only 'Gun Control' BO has any right to be discussing.

[oldno7]

Heres the FBI stats on background checks, including an update for Jan. 2013

Keep in mind, one background check does not correlate to one weapon, often times multiple guns are purchased.

[ratagonia]

Thought y'all might enjoy this...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FI_AZTzfok&feature=youtube_gdata

:moses:

[oldno7]

I don't have much on this yet but California is seizing guns for whatever reason.

Will be interesting to see if the "illegal" part, is failure to register.

But remember, no one has suggested seizing guns:roll:

If this is only from known felons, no problem.

Will have to wait to hear the "rest of the story"

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/06/tonight-on-ac360-california-goes-after-illegal-guns/

[Iceaxe]

I don't have much on this yet but California is seizing guns for whatever reason.

Will be interesting to see if the "illegal" part, is failure to register.

A quick internet search says California is doing exactly what they should be doing...

"The agents are looking for those who are convicted felons or mentally unstable. And they have guns. The state has a list of about 20,000 such people with 40,000 guns. But because of budget restrictions, there are only 33 agents to find them."

Full story here: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57568069/tense-moments-as-california-agents-confiscate-illegal-guns/

[ratagonia]

A quick internet search says California is doing exactly what they should be doing...

"The agents are looking for those who are convicted felons or mentally unstable. And they have guns. The state has a list of about 20,000 such people with 40,000 guns. But because of budget restrictions, there are only 33 agents to find them."

Full story here: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57568069/tense-moments-as-california-agents-confiscate-illegal-guns/

C'mon Shane, no reason to let facts get in the way of a good propaganda point! You're trying to foment an armed rebellion here, don't forget. Can't make an omelet without massacring a few chickens. :naughty:

:moses:

[oldno7]

I didn't make it up to watch the full version of AC.

Shanes article is clearly more detailed.

I read this:

I should know better than to quote cnn:haha:

There are about 40,000 illegally owned guns in California. They're owned by people from all walks of life who have been ordered to turn in their firearms for a number of different reasons, but they haven’t come forward. So special agents from California's Justice Department’s Bureau of Firearms are going after them to seize the weapons.

[PunchKing]

Speaking of propaganda <sarcasm> The second revolution is on the way </sarcasm>

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-purchases-21-6-million-more-rounds-of-ammunition/

Here is the first paragraph: "The Department of Homeland Security is set to purchase a further 21.6 million rounds of ammunition to add to the 1.6 billion bullets it has already obtained over the course of the last 10 months alone, figures which have stoked concerns that the federal agency is preparing for civil unrest."