Canyoneering USA Tech Tips

[ratagonia]

We've been adding a few, pretty basic things to the Tech Tips, of late:

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/techtips/

Enjoy.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Comments and suggestions welcome. Anatomically possible preferred.

Tom

[Slot Machine]

Anatomically possible preferred. Tom

:haha:

The photos on your biner block page are good, but they are too small. If you click them, they don't enlarge as expected, but instead you're kicked to the top of the page.

Since the problem of rope grooves has been a warm topic lately, perhaps a page about preventing them might be useful. Extended anchors, courtesy anchors and single strap anchors (1 strap of webbing run from an anchor to the edge) don't seem to be techniques most folks use (but should).

I think a page about proper deadman/cairn anchor building would be very helpful. What is the safest way to wrap a rock with webbing? Also, a page about using potshots as retrievable anchors (a la No Kidding) would be cool too.

If you have already built pages on these topics, then never mind. Or maybe they should be moved to your tech tips page. :ne_nau:

Overall, cool page! I've used a couple techniques that were learned there. :2thumbs:

Bob

[ratagonia]

:haha:

The photos on your biner block page are good, but they are too small. If you click them, they don't enlarge as expected, but instead you're kicked to the top of the page.

Since the problem of rope grooves has been a warm topic lately, perhaps a page about preventing them might be useful. Extended anchors, courtesy anchors and single strap anchors (1 strap of webbing run from an anchor to the edge) don't seem to be techniques most folks use (but should).

I think a page about proper deadman/cairn anchor building would be very helpful. What is the safest way to wrap a rock with webbing? Also, a page about using potshots as retrievable anchors (a la No Kidding) would be cool too.

If you have already built pages on these topics, then never mind. Or maybe they should be moved to your tech tips page. :ne_nau:

Overall, cool page! I've used a couple techniques that were learned there. :2thumbs:

Bob

Excellent suggestions Bob. I will put them on the to do list.

Tom

[Kuya]

:haha:

The photos on your biner block page are good, but they are too small. If you click them, they don't enlarge as expected, but instead you're kicked to the top of the page.

Since the problem of rope grooves has been a warm topic lately, perhaps a page about preventing them might be useful. Extended anchors, courtesy anchors and single strap anchors (1 strap of webbing run from an anchor to the edge) don't seem to be techniques most folks use (but should).

I think a page about proper deadman/cairn anchor building would be very helpful. What is the safest way to wrap a rock with webbing? Also, a page about using potshots as retrievable anchors (a la No Kidding) would be cool too.

If you have already built pages on these topics, then never mind. Or maybe they should be moved to your tech tips page. :ne_nau:

Overall, cool page! I've used a couple techniques that were learned there. :2thumbs:

Bob

:2thumbs: yes I agree with Slot Machine. I would be very interested in learning more about environmentally friendly canyoneering techniques.

[Sandstone Addiction]

Thanks Tom, I have really enjoyed your tech tips. Excellent. :2thumbs:

[NWilkes]

Thanks for the suggestions, Bob. Images now pop-up nice and big on the biner block post.

[PG Rob]

Very well done Tom. Thank You! I look forward to seeing more.

[Dakine]

Thanks your tech tips are very helpful.

[heliski2]

Great tips Tom!
We often carry a 3' section of garden hose to help prevent rope grooves and chafe on the rope when it rubs against the cliff edge. We simply run the rope through the hose and lay the hose section on the cliff edge. It hasn't been a problem retrieving it so far as it usually comes down with a flip of the rope. If you are concerned about the hose hanging up when you pull the rope simply cut a small slit about 2" from the end and run a 4 - 6mm pull cord through the slit.

[dweaver2130]

Hey Tom, what do you think of the Frost Knot for webbing on anchors, and if your thoughts are positive, do you think you could add this to your tech tip list?

[Brian in SLC]

Curious what the Frost knot would be used for with regard to an anchor. Is it to isolate a loop (to put a rapide into)?

Water knot is so simple.

[PG Rob]

It can be used in place of a water knot + overhand knot, allowing you to tie one knot rather than 2.

[dweaver2130]

I like the frost knot for building anchors simply because I feel, and my opinion is worth about $1.59 less than a cup of circle k coffee, but it is easier to take a one long piece of webbing, tie off with a frost on your anchor, and then simply cut off the tail. Eliminates the need for multiple pieces of webbing, and I always had trouble with water knot and using just a little too much every time. Once I went to the frost, which is really simply like the water knot, I lost that problem. Maybe I am just screwed up. Last thing about it, I feel it is really easy to check if it is tied correctly, no more so than the water knot, but no harder either.

[PG Rob]

Last thing about it, I feel it is really easy to check if it is tied correctly, no more so than the water knot, but no harder either.

Agree! The knot is also positioned at a location that is conducive to checking it, where the water knot could end up anywhere, including being buried.

[ratagonia]

I like the frost knot for building anchors simply because I feel, and my opinion is worth about $1.59 less than a cup of circle k coffee, but it is easier to take a one long piece of webbing, tie off with a frost on your anchor, and then simply cut off the tail. Eliminates the need for multiple pieces of webbing, and I always had trouble with water knot and using just a little too much every time. Once I went to the frost, which is really simply like the water knot, I lost that problem. Maybe I am just screwed up. Last thing about it, I feel it is really easy to check if it is tied correctly, no more so than the water knot, but no harder either.

One problem with using a non-standard knot is that the next party coming along SHOULD probably remove it, since they would not recognize it as a valid solution to the problem.

If you put an overhand on a bight out near the ring, then you have fixed the location of the webbing and the knot, and can place it where it works best for you.

So, in a sense, I am agin' it as a knot for leaving on anchors, as it should confuse people.

(SHOULD, but we know that people will rap off of anything, crazy webbing, knots or no knots, junk or no junk).

Tom :moses:

[Brian in SLC]

I like the frost knot for building anchors simply because I feel, and my opinion is worth about $1.59 less than a cup of circle k coffee, but it is easier to take a one long piece of webbing, tie off with a frost on your anchor, and then simply cut off the tail.

I guess. I'll have to try it.

I just think its super simple if you're using a long piece of webbing to still either tie a standard water knot or an inline overhand (ala the EDK) if you're in a hurry. Water knot being so standard and easy to inspect.

I just need a very small toolbox, as, too many tricks that I don't apply get forgotton anyhow.

[2065toyota]

One problem with using a non-standard knot is that the next party coming along SHOULD probably remove it, since they would not recognize it as a valid solution to the problem.

If you put an overhand on a bight out near the ring, then you have fixed the location of the webbing and the knot, and can place it where it works best for you.

So, in a sense, I am agin' it as a knot for leaving on anchors, as it should confuse people.

(SHOULD, but we know that people will rap off of anything, crazy webbing, knots or no knots, junk or no junk).

Tom :moses:

The last canyon we did, the one piece of webbing that we had to leave you set up differently than I have seen it. A slip knot on the end of the webbing with the loop around the end of the tree. So that a single line of webbing extended out and then an overhand knot in the end with the rapid in it. It made sense that you could set up the exact direction of pull on the webbing, and you only had to use approximately half the amount to extend it out from the anchor. From what I remember the 1" tubular webbing has a breaking strength of 4000 pounds and the knot at the end reducing that by 25%. So a single line strength of 3000 lbs when set up that way. Whereas a full loop with water knot would be 4000 + (4000 x .75) for a 7000 lb strength.

[dweaver2130]

You're right Brian, but I'm guessing that my brain doesn't work that way, I always end up tying the water knot a few times in order to get the placement right so as to leave only the minimal webbing in place. Whenever I tie the frost, it seems to always end up working for me. I came across the knot after tying an etrier, and was like hmm, I wonder how this will work for anchors. Have used it now quite a few times with great success.

I get what you are saying too Tom. Most people having never seen it would probably do the, what crazy guy rappelled off of this, and re-rig, which could cause the potential for more use of webbing and left garbage (if they aren't the packing out type). Again, just a light-bulb that went off for me and was open to share my hair-brained schemes.

[ratagonia]

The last canyon we did, the one piece of webbing that we had to leave you set up differently than I have seen it. A slip knot on the end of the webbing with the loop around the end of the tree. So that a single line of webbing extended out and then an overhand knot in the end with the rapid in it. It made sense that you could set up the exact direction of pull on the webbing, and you only had to use approximately half the amount to extend it out from the anchor. From what I remember the 1" tubular webbing has a breaking strength of 4000 pounds and the knot at the end reducing that by 25%. So a single line strength of 3000 lbs when set up that way. Whereas a full loop with water knot would be 4000 + (4000 x .75) for a 7000 lb strength.

I consider the way I set that up to be a "standard method", though many others would not. To me, it is a better solution for a long-webbing rigging situation, as it leaves less crap in the canyon.

Tom

[Dan-wild]

:haha:

The photos on your biner block page are good, but they are too small. If you click them, they don't enlarge as expected, but instead you're kicked to the top of the page.

Since the problem of rope grooves has been a warm topic lately, perhaps a page about preventing them might be useful. Extended anchors, courtesy anchors and single strap anchors (1 strap of webbing run from an anchor to the edge) don't seem to be techniques most folks use (but should).

I think a page about proper deadman/cairn anchor building would be very helpful. What is the safest way to wrap a rock with webbing? Also, a page about using potshots as retrievable anchors (a la No Kidding) would be cool too.

If you have already built pages on these topics, then never mind. Or maybe they should be moved to your tech tips page. :ne_nau:

Overall, cool page! I've used a couple techniques that were learned there. :2thumbs:

Bob

Good points! I would also like to see a pointer on the best way to wrap a rock with webbing. This seems to be a very common problem. Nice pic slot machine!

[Brian in SLC]

From what I remember the 1" tubular webbing has a breaking strength of 4000 pounds and the knot at the end reducing that by 25%.

Knot at the end would be more like a 50% reduction in strength. Especially an overhand knot.

[oldno7]

The last canyon we did, the one piece of webbing that we had to leave you set up differently than I have seen it. A slip knot on the end of the webbing with the loop around the end of the tree. So that a single line of webbing extended out and then an overhand knot in the end with the rapid in it. It made sense that you could set up the exact direction of pull on the webbing, and you only had to use approximately half the amount to extend it out from the anchor. From what I remember the 1" tubular webbing has a breaking strength of 4000 pounds and the knot at the end reducing that by 25%. So a single line strength of 3000 lbs when set up that way. Whereas a full loop with water knot would be 4000 + (4000 x .75) for a 7000 lb strength.

I'd be very careful using a "slip" knot. Nylon rubbing on nylon will burn eventually. May be better to tie a static knot while extending a single piece of webbing.
A water knot will also work for this application.

While a "slip" knot may not show wear for some time, it is bad practice to use.

Theres dozens of ways to tie slip knots, many not easy to identify, especially after use.

Theres only one way to tie a water knot.

[trackrunner]

Curious what the Frost knot would be used for with regard to an anchor. Is it to isolate a loop (to put a rapide into)?


I've seen and used a frost knot with two isolated loops in opposite directions. the look facing the anchor was used for a meet backup for marginal anchors you love so much. Also seen used as a courtesy anchor for all but the last.

To be honest I've only used it a couple times in a canyon and vast majority I use the water knot.

[2065toyota]

I'd be very careful using a "slip" knot. Nylon rubbing on nylon will burn eventually. May be better to tie a static knot while extending a single piece of webbing.
A water knot will also work for this application.

While a "slip" knot may not show wear for some time, it is bad practice to use.

Theres dozens of ways to tie slip knots, many not easy to identify, especially after use.

Theres only one way to tie a water knot.

After the webbing tightens to your anchor and pointed in the correct direction there would be little burning of the knot other than sun shining on it. The purpose is being able to extend the webbing using half as much material. The breaking strength of 1" tubing with overhand is much higher than 2000 lbs61734

Maybe this should be moved to it's own thread as to not hijack Tom's threads for Tech tips linked to his site

[Brian in SLC]

Another often quoted source:

http://user.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/High_Strength_Cord.pdf

Yeah, you just about can't make a configuration of 1" webbing with any knot, hitch, loop, etc, that would be "unsafe" especially for body weight type rappelling loads.

Do they still sell 1" webbing? Ha ha.

[oldno7]

The purpose is being able to extend the webbing using half as much material. 61734



This can be accomplished without a "slip" knot

[oldno7]

[QUOTE=2065toyota;519466]After the webbing tightens to your anchor and pointed in the correct direction there would be little burning of the knot other than sun shining on it. QUOTE]

So your using a new type of "no stretch" webbing"?

Sorry--nylon on nylon is a bad choice, if you have other options.

[2065toyota]

There usually are other options. If wrapped around an anchor there isn't going to be very much friction between the webbing. I would say very much less friction that when the webbing rubs on rocks and and other objects it passes by. Obviously this short piece doesn't show the savings in length of webbing but on a wrap that needs to be extended 20' you wouldn't use much more that 21' instead of 41' to do it61754617536175261755

[oldno7]

Your length savings is a moot point. As stated previously, extending a single strand of webbing can certainly be strong enough.

The concern is your advocacy for running nylon webbing on nylon webbing. This is NOT a good practice.

But since it's not hitting home, might I ask why you would you need a rapid link in this system?

[2065toyota]

I find it moot that webbing can wrap around sandstone rocks, buried inside cairn anchors with rocks stacked on it, tree bark, steel, and aluminum but you better not ever let it touch itself

[2065toyota]

I do understand your point so we can be done talking about. I appreciate all advice and criticism

[dweaver2130]

Curious what the Frost knot would be used for with regard to an anchor. Is it to isolate a loop (to put a rapide into)?

Water knot is so simple.

I thread my webbing through the bolts, or around a pinch, etc. Then I tie a frost to close that loop. Also when you tie the frost it creates a loop for you to put your quick-link in. I then cut the excess off and repack. You only end up having to tie one knot and that knot creates the loop you need for your link.

[penmartens]

I don't have the time to figure out the frost knot being talked about. Was there a photo that I missed?
As far as the setup Toyota posted up (thanks for the photos), I've been seeing this around in North Wash canyons and wondered what the reasoning was. Last time I was through Angel Slot someone had used this same idea. They must have been concerned about the webbing on webbing aspect that Oldno is worried about because they used 2 rapides; one on the rope end and one on the stationary end avoiding the webbing on webbing situation.We re-rigged using a water knot at the upper end of the setup and walked away with 3 shiny new rapides.
Using a single strand of webbing is acceptable. It is safe and more economical. Your reasoning is sound, it just needs tweaked a little bit.
I guess what I don't like about the setup in the photo is that there is so much play around the rock. Wind and water can really get anchors to whipping around causing wear on the rock and webbing.
Penny

[trackrunner]

Your length savings is a moot point. As stated previously, extending a single strand of webbing can certainly be strong enough.

The concern is your advocacy for running nylon webbing on nylon webbing. This is NOT a good practice.

But since it's not hitting home, might I ask why you would you need a rapid link in this system?

Kurt what do you think about this anchor set up? Photos are from Wyoming Dave over at the canyons group.

The noose with the double fisherman's knot would tighten around the rock and the knot tightens creating a snug no slipping anchor.

from this post
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/62375
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/1898823/sn/1606844323/name/IMG_3726b.jpg
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/1898823/sn/1987726211/name/IMG_3731c.jpg

Mods maybe time to split this thread into a discussion on nylon on nylon with girth hitch anchors?

[oldno7]

Kurt what do you think about this anchor set up? Photos are from Wyoming Dave over at the canyons group.

The noose with the double fisherman's knot would tighten around the rock and the knot tightens creating a snug no slipping anchor.

from this post
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/62375
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/1898823/sn/1606844323/name/IMG_3726b.jpg
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/1898823/sn/1987726211/name/IMG_3731c.jpg

Mods maybe time to split this thread into a discussion on nylon on nylon with girth hitch anchors?

Why split?? Tom mentioned earlier he uses this method quite a bit and it may not be condoned by others. Seems appropriate here.

I don't see the "potential" weakness in the knot as much as the "burning" of the loop as a result of your load end cycling through said loop.

I'm sure we all have watched webbing stretching while a rappeler is on line, stretching an inch is quite easily accomplished and at times more depending on your length of webbing. The fact it is cynched against a tree/rock etc does not completely mitigate this action.

I used to always demonstrate in courses I taught, the ability of rope to cut through webbing while applying some pressure, could do it in under 20 seconds.

I will grant you that webbing "may" not create as much friction sliding through a webbing loop as rope, BUT I deem this as bad practice overall, tom does not.

As with everything in life, you are ultimately responsible for yourself, relying on internet advice that YOU have not personally deemed safe might leed to broken bones.

This was toms response to using a slip knot in webbing, earlier in this thread.

"I consider the way I set that up to be a "standard method", though many others would not. To me, it is a better solution for a long-webbing rigging situation, as it leaves less crap in the canyon."

Tom

[PG Rob]

I don't have the time to figure out the frost knot being talked about. Was there a photo that I missed?

I posted some pictures earlier in the thread.

Here they are again:

[penmartens]

Rob,
Thanks for your patience and for reposting the pics. I view Bogley only from my new phone and the images were showing as a link.
This is a nifty setup. I usually do single strand, but will give this a try next time I'm doing a loop of webbing around a base.
Penny

[2065toyota]

What is the strength difference between the standard tubular webbing used for building anchors and some ICG 6mm static line pull cord? Price point is about the same. The pull cord is much more abrasion and water resistant. Could it be used instead of the traditional webbing for rap setups? Just a thought.

[ratagonia]

What is the strength difference between the standard tubular webbing used for building anchors and some ICG 6mm static line pull cord? Price point is about the same. The pull cord is much more abrasion and water resistant. Could it be used instead of the traditional webbing for rap setups? Just a thought.

The tubular webbing is MUCH better going over an edge.

The part against the rock stays put, the outside layer can slide back and forth a little bit.

A hard round cord, like the pull cord or my ropes, puts a lot of stress on the inside of the curve where it crosses an edge. Tends to cut through the sheath there.

Which is why we use tubular webbing.

Not like you can't use rope or cord in an emergency, but it will not last as long as the tubular webbing.

Tom

[Slot Machine]

Not to derail this riveting tubular webbing discussion, but...

Tom, I thought of another thing I would like to see on your Tech Tips page. I know jack squat about ascending a rope, but I could probably do it if the need ever arose. However, I'd bet my way is not the best way.

Some canyoneering specific techniques (as compared to caving, if there is a difference) would be interesting and helpful. What are some common mistakes that people make when setting up ascenders? What are the best ascenders to lug around? What are your thoughts on Tiblocs? Maybe consider adding a short film of yourself jugging up a rope, to show the correct movements?

Bob

[ratagonia]

Not to derail this riveting tubular webbing discussion, but...

Tom, I thought of another thing I would like to see on your Tech Tips page. I know jack squat about ascending a rope, but I could probably do it if the need ever arose. However, I'd bet my way is not the best way.

Some canyoneering specific techniques (as compared to caving, if there is a difference) would be interesting and helpful. What are some common mistakes that people make when setting up ascenders? What are the best ascenders to lug around? What are your thoughts on Tiblocs? Maybe consider adding a short film of yourself jugging up a rope, to show the correct movements?

Bob

Thanks Bob.

That is a big one, as in, it is high on the list, but is hard to do a good job on. Might try to do it at Freeze Fest.

Tom

[trackrunner]

Some canyoneering specific techniques (as compared to caving, if there is a difference) would be interesting and helpful.



actually if you want to learn how to ascend better hang out with a caver. they can teach you better technique with just about any ascending system. a rope walker system may not be practical for canyoneering but I've seen a caver move faster with a texas system then I would with a frog set up. YMMV

most canyoneers I know use something similar to this YMMV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_1MTxvR3TQ

[ratagonia]

actually if you want to learn how to ascend better hang out with a caver. they can teach you better technique with just about any ascending system. a rope walker system may not be practical for canyoneering but I've seen a caver move faster with a texas system then I would with a frog set up. YMMV

most canyoneers I know use something similar to this YMMV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_1MTxvR3TQ


I have to absolutely, completely disagree with your Shaun.

If you want to learn how to climb a rope like a caver, as in big thick ropes, lots of gear, LONG ascents, mostly free-hanging, then by all means learn how to do so with cavers.

Thankfully, there are rarely opportunities to exercise these skills in canyoneering. But you may want to know how to ascend a rope, small diameter, generally short runs, usually in contact with the rock, and only every once in a while, and usually only one person doing it; with equipment that you are willing to carry every day, every canyon, though you are likely to use it only once a year (except in practice).

In which case you should learn such a thing from a person versed in canyoneering. And then practice it.

And yes, something like a "Texas Kick" works quite well for canyoneering.

Tom

[2065toyota]

We went and practiced with handheld ascenders, tiblocs & prussiks. They all worked and climbing the rope was easily done with all of them. Getting over the lips especially if it is freehanging with all your weight pulling the rope in contact with the rock is the hard part. Even after only 1 practice session it was a night and day difference in confidence boost. We stuck 2 ropes this year that we ascended and got back rather than cutting and leaving them and I believe the practice we did is why we were confident to do it.

[trackrunner]

I have to absolutely, completely disagree with your Shaun.

If you want to learn how to climb a rope like a caver, as in big thick ropes, lots of gear, LONG ascents, mostly free-hanging, then by all means learn how to do so with cavers.

Yeah I agree with your points, but re-read my post, where did I write anything about more gear, or any of that stuff. I tried to address that with a statement about systems that require more gear, "a rope walker system may not be practical for canyoneering".

I did write "they can teach you better technique with just about any ascending system." I improved at the texas kick learning technique (the movement, the right length of safety tether, right length of foot loop tether) from a caver using my standard rack of gear (ropeman & safety tether and foot loop). I've also learned ways to get over a overhang lip from a caver. I agree with you that it may be rare to ascend, but when you need to, its nice to know how to ascend and get over a lip. YMMV

In a race between you and an experienced caver using the same gear (tibloc or ropeman), with the only differation being technique and not gear, who do you think wins?



And yes, something like a "Texas Kick" works quite well for canyoneering.



I thought you absolutely, completely disagreed with me :nod:

[ratagonia]

In a race between you and an experienced caver using the same gear (tibloc or ropeman), with the only differentiation being technique and not gear, who do you think wins?


Using my system, I can climb efficiently at my aerobic limit.

My aerobic limit is not so hot, so I suspect any reasonable caver would outclimb me like I was standing still...




I thought you absolutely, completely disagreed with me :nod:

Yeah, that election thing. Gotta get out of the habit of hyper-hyperbole!

Tom

[trackrunner]

Using my system, I can climb efficiently at my aerobic limit.

My aerobic limit is not so hot, so I suspect any reasonable caver would outclimb me like I was standing still...

a second thing we agree with, that a carver's aerobic limit while ascending is probably higher than yours or mine.

[outsider]

Enjoying the tips (and have for years) - thanks Tom! A few ideas, that may not have been thrown out above, unless I skimmed past...
- I assume a page on the ATC, like the new Piranha tip is coming... hoping it includes more than XP-use-high-friction-side and 2 biner options for friction settings...
- Contingency anchor setup.
- Second the request posted above w/ regards to canyoneering-specific ascending.
- Fiddlestick.
- Two-person haul.
- Not sure if you are limiting things to gear-only tech tips, but what about going through some of the common partner-assist techniques?

-john

[Kuya]

Enjoying the tips (and have for years) - thanks Tom! A few ideas, that may not have been thrown out above, unless I skimmed past...
- I assume a page on the ATC, like the new Piranha tip is coming... hoping it includes more than XP-use-high-friction-side and 2 biner options for friction settings...
- Contingency anchor setup.
- Second the request posted above w/ regards to canyoneering-specific ascending.
- Fiddlestick.
- Two-person haul.
- Not sure if you are limiting things to gear-only tech tips, but what about going through some of the common partner-assist techniques?

-john


yes lets here so me more about the Fiddlestick and other Contingency Anchors. Maybe some instructions on how to use the ATS, tie off an ATC. Set up of guided rappel.

[ratagonia]

yes lets here so me more about the Fiddlestick and other Contingency Anchors. Maybe some instructions on how to use the ATS, tie off an ATC. Set up of guided rappel.

I might re-shoot the Pirana Tech Tip with the ATS, but...

Will consider all suggested topics - thanks.

Tom

[gingerproblems]

We often face arguments on threads over natural vs un-natural anchors. Maybe a page on natural anchor construction (bollards, dead men/gift wrapping, etc) could help promote the natural ethic.

[Brian in SLC]

As well, how a well placed bolted anchor could help avoid leaving long lengths of webbing, reduce visual impacts, reduce scarring on the rock from rope pulls, reduce damage to live trees and shrubs, and help keep down the erosion of walk around social trails.

[SRG]

Thanks for all the awesome tech tips Tom.


Maybe a page on natural anchor construction (bollards, dead men/gift wrapping, etc) could help promote the natural ethic.
I agree. I think a page on unnatural anchor deconstruction(bolt removal) would go a long way also :haha:

[Brian in SLC]

Well, if you have to remove a bolt, here's some good resources...

http://www.rockandice.com/articles/how-to-climb/article/338-How-to-Remove-an-Old-Climbing-Bolt-removing-bolts

http://www.safeclimbing.org/education/howtorebolt.htm

http://www.bolt-products.com/SustainableBolting.htm