Rattlesnake in Morocco

[plutacratic77]

Mentioned this in another thread but figured it could use a thread of its own. Just a heads up for those thinking about doing Morocco in the next few days--we came upon a small rattlesnake (juvenile? midget?) yesterday at the bottom of the first rap. It's dark and there's not a whole lotta room down there, so be careful. Thankfully for us it stayed in its corner and allowed all four of us to play through. Kind of begs the question: how often do canyoneers stumble upon rattlesnakes? Our feeling was that it probably just got washed down in the storm late last week--hard to see a snake making much of living down in a dark slot?

[Eric Holden]

Out here in California, pretty much a Snake per canyon. Ran across a Garter snake in Subway on my only trip to Zion.

[accadacca]

Yikes! Thanks for the tip. :scared:

[peakbaggers]

They're not all that uncommon as far as we are concerned. Saw one in Englestead just a few weeks ago (See What canyoneers eat for breakfast" thread) and in the past would almost always spot one in the Dry Fork of Coyote Gulch - Peek-A-Boo, Spooky. etc. Thanks for the warning - was considering that area for next weekend.

What conditions did you find? Did Morocco fill back up? Did you do any other North Wash canyons? Sounded like from previous reports it was fairly dry in that area until the Friday storms hit.

[plutacratic77]

What conditions did you find? Did Morocco fill back up? Did you do any other North Wash canyons? Sounded like from previous reports it was fairly dry in that area until the Friday storms hit.

Morocco looked like it was about as full as it could get. A couple waist deep wades, the pothole before the bridge is chin deep unless you can stem around. Right Lep was also fully saturated, having several waist deep spots and one unavoidable chin deep pool. Even an anchor or two were underwater. Chilly, but fun!

[Iceaxe]

how often do canyoneers stumble upon rattlesnakes?

All the time!

Finding rattlesnakes in the slots is particularly common after a big storm as they get washed in. I once came across about half-a-dozen in Not Mindbender the day after a big storm.

I was once sitting on the edge of White Canyon watching it flash with an old rancher.... he commonly noted "see all those sticks? them are rattlesnakes"... and sure as shit if you looked close you could see a lot of rattlesnakes rolling by in the flash flood.

The one positive thing about finding rattlesnakes in the slots is they are normally pretty lethargic from the cold. If you ever meet one in a narrow slot you can take off you shirt or jacket and tie a rope to it. Toss the shirt or jacket over the snake so it can't see. cross over the snake and retrieve your shirt or jacket with the rope. I've used this method a couple of times in tight quarters with a rattler.

This is one I almost stepped on earlier this year. The suckers can be hard to see in the dark slots.

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[Brian in SLC]

Saw 5 in a short section of Spooky in the Escalante a few years back. Cute little things. Docile. Was one in the sand, apparently as we hiked in, and, noticed someone had stepped on it, unaware. Snake didn't fair well (was dead). Little dinky things. Must have been young 'uns.

As an aside...friend of a friend here in SLC got bit by one this weekend in the foothills, whilst running with earbuds in (near City Creek). She felt a slap...ran a few steps, and, saw the bite mark. Went to the ER and they think it was a dry strike. So far so good, no swelling. Been a bunch around this year in the local SLC area.

[ilipichicuma]

I see them all the time too! We were in Larry a couple years back waiting for the rest of my group at the bottom of a rappel and suddenly I was like, "What-in-the?" as a great big snake actually fell off of the rim of the canyon and into the bottom. It almost landed on us! I don't think it was a rattler, but still, it was a surprise. So, flash floods aren't the only way snakes get into canyons. :haha:

[peakbaggers]

Last Memorial Day weekend, we were in the North Wash area and in one of the Blarneys. It had been blowing like heck and we found a young rattler in a section between two vertical drops that made it unlikely it slithered to that location. We figured it got blown in.

[Canyonbug]

The one positive thing about finding rattlesnakes in the slots is they are normally pretty lethargic from the cold. If you ever meet one in a narrow slot you can take off you shirt or jacket and tie a rope to it. Toss the shirt or jacket over the snake so it can't see. cross over the snake and retrieve your shirt or jacket with the rope. I've used this method a couple of times in tight quarters with a rattler.



Very nice advice Ice!

I have ran into a few in the canyons. One rattler years ago when we did a side fork of Adobe Swale. My buddy decided he wanted to try and catch it - luckily for us the snake had different ideas and slithered into a crack where we couldn't reach him. Another time while conducting a Rescue Course we had been using a drop over and over all morning doing practice and walking back around and one of the students looked down at one point and noticed there had been one curled up in the sun sleeping and we had been walking right by it. They decided to wake it up and see what it would do. Luckily when we came back from lunch it was gone, but made us be cautious the rest of the day since we didn't know where it had gotten to.

Other than this, I have ran into several garter snakes on occasion. Two in one pothole whilst out with Ram several weeks ago. After the huge rainstorms I am always much more cautious when going into the slots since as mentioned, this is the prime time when you see them after being washed down into the canyon.

[Sandstone Addiction]

One rattler years ago when we did a side fork of Adobe Swale. My buddy decided he wanted to try and catch it

This brings up a good question, what would/should someone do if descending a canyon, hours from mediocre medical treatment, and was bitten by a rattler?

[ratagonia]

This brings up a good question, what would/should someone do if descending a canyon, hours from mediocre medical treatment, and was bitten by a rattler?

Google not working in your area???

Try this: http://www.trailspace.com/forums/backcountry/topics/27272.html

T

[Iceaxe]

Since Tom is to lazy to cut-n-paste....

This appears to be the best answer.


Not a herpetologist, but I did get bit once when I was about 16 years old. Since I'm still here, obviously folks live through it. Statistically, the vast majority of people bitten by rattlesnakes (and pit vipers in North America generally) do live, even without treatment.

Buck Tilton's book "Don't Get Bitten" is a good summary of who gets bitten, when, where, and what to do about it (Mountaineers Press - you can order direct if your local store doesn't have it, and AAC members get a discount). He does have one error that I learned from my one personal experience, but otherwise it is very accurate.

A few tidbits -

The folks who most commonly get bit are people who attempt to kill, capture, or otherwise handle the snake. Most common profile is a young, intoxicated male, 17-27 years old, who intentionally messes with one (well, I was younger, not intoxicated, but basically harassing it, so 2 out of 3)

7000-8000 bites a year in the US, typical years recently have had 5-6 fatalities, but earlier was up to 15, and 1983-1998 only 10 total for the 15 years. The reason for the lower death rate recently is probably wide availability of antivenin.

Cut and suck turns out to be more fatal than the bite itself. So medical advice is do NOT do the old cut and suck. The Sawyer suction device has some slight helpful effect (as Brian notes), but again, do not cut. Antivenin is the only effective treatment (although for some of the super-poisonous Australian snakes, there are ways to slow the effects while getting to the antivenin).

Maximum crawl speed of pit vipers is 3 mph, so you can easily outwalk one (they sometimes apparently get confused and crawl toward people, but usually just try to get away).

1 out of 4 or 5 bites is dry, 75-80 percent have some envenomization.

The 5 most "fatal" states in order are Arizona (where I grew up), Florida (hey, Ed, watch it!), Georgia, Texas, Alabama.

Tilton's advice when you are bitten -

If you are alone, walk out slowly with frequent rest breaks.

Otherwise, he has a list of 14 things, most of which are "do not do ..." Basically, keep the victim calm and at rest with the bitten part level or slightly below the heart. Evacuate by carrying (or slow walking if alone). Keep the victim well-hydrated unless they develop pronounced vomiting. Get them to the antivenin ASAP. (the antivenin takes 12-18 vials for a cost of $12,000 to $17,000.

[Brian in SLC]

Whew...I remember that thread...ugh. Climbed with Bill S (the feller you quoted) a few times. Smartie.

Update from last weekend:

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Dry bite! No swelling.

Geez, Tom, a bit snarky...

[Brian in SLC]

This brings up a good question, what would/should someone do if descending a canyon, hours from mediocre medical treatment, and was bitten by a rattler?

Depends on where you were bit.

"Doc says you're gonna die".

Ha ha.

[Iceaxe]

"Doc says you're gonna die".

Snicker.... snicker...


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[Bluff-Canyoneer]

We ran into this little guy in the middle Spooky narrows (Hole in the Rock Road) a few years back. We saw a dead one down-canyon a ways that looked like someone had smashed it with a rock.
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