How Would You Rate MIA Exit (Scale of 1-10)?

[taatmk]

Planning on doing Boundary in Zion in near future. Looking to get an idea of how difficult the MIA exit is.
From a few canyons I have done in Zion as a comparision baseline, I am hopeful to get your rating for MIA (realizing of course the subjectivity).

Some perceived compariosons I have done lately: the Subway exit, the exit out of Fat Man's Misery, and the entry hike up to Behunin/Telephone....

With, say, the Fat Man's Misery exit being a 1, using a scale of 1-10, would you rate the climb out the MIA exit?

Thanks for your help. It gives me a comparision to anticipate. Gracias.

[Bootboy]

The hardest part of the subway exit is easier than the easiest part of the MIA. On a scale of 1-10. It sucks. It's about 1,500' gained in about 3/4mi. Its tolerable, but it is slightly exposed in places. We did it in about 1.5 hours to the road. Another hour to the car. There are some places where there are steps chopped in the dirt and your hands are on the slope in front of you when you're standing upright. The hike to behunin is all on a trail so it doesn't really compare.
The MIA is relentless but if you just keep your head down, a steady pace, and your balance, you'll be fine.

FWIW: the flow out of Kolob reservoir has been shut off for the season. Any flow in the canyon will be residual.

[hank moon]

rating on what basis? beauty? technical difficulty? route-finding skill required, number of snickers bars needed? suitability as a locale to pop the question to your baby?

and what does the scale mean? is "1" the low end of (snickers bars, for example)?

a little specificity can go a long way :)

[canyoncaver]

FWIW: the flow out of Kolob reservoir has been shut off for the season. Any flow in the canyon will be residual.

I believe you are thinking of Kolob Canyon. The flow in Boundary seems to be related to the reservoir, but is not directly affected by dam release.

Oh, and the MIA sucks pretty bad but is conquered by mouth-breathers and knuckle-draggers all the time. Just get there before it gets dark...

[Iceaxe]

Subway Exit - 1
Behunin hike up -2
Telephone hike up - 3
Fat Man's Exit -4

Coming home from work and finding Sof

[Kishkumen]

I think Bootboy said it well "It Sucks!". It is steep and the ground is soft and loose. Your packs are heavy due to your wet ropes and wet-suits. You get to the top of the first hill and you think you have to be close to the rim. You then see that you have to go back down the hill and re-take the elevation you just gained. It sucks. When you get to the top of the first hill and say, "How the %#$# are we going to get out of here". You look at the rock rim and there is sliver of vertical dirt cutting to the rim...that is your trail. The last time I did it, it was hot and humid and I sweated so much that I lost all my salt and started to cramp up. I had to take a break, eat some salty food and then I felt better. I have done this trail twice and it sucks. It isn't that long but while you are on it. yeah you guessed it...it sucks. When you get to the top follow the red metal arrows to get out (4 or so miles).

[tcott]

It depends on how many times you have done it. I personally don't thinks it's that bad anymore. The first time I said I was never coming back, which lasted all of two weeks :lol8:. Now it's just an accepted part of Kolob area canyons. Yeah it's steep, but pretty short lived.

[Bootboy]

I believe you are thinking of Kolob Canyon. The flow in Boundary seems to be related to the reservoir, but is not directly affected by dam release.

Oh, and the MIA sucks pretty bad but is conquered by mouth-breathers and knuckle-draggers all the time. Just get there before it gets dark...

You are correct, boundry is dry (not flowing) last I heard though.

[ilipichicuma]

I got lost the first time I did the MIA exit. Granted, I had gotten my route description destroyed in Boundary because it was common for it to be dry back then. But, now I've done it three times, and it doesn't suck that bad. The second time I had a broken arm and still managed to get out just fine. I just realized that this post isn't making me sound very authoritative. Haha. I'm a good canyoneer I swear! :lol8:

[Mountaineer]

FWIW: the flow out of Kolob reservoir has been shut off for the season. Any flow in the canyon will be residual.

Just called Washington County Water District, and they said it is being released at 3 CFS through next week.

[dude9478]

My wife and I were up there a couple weekends ago. We honestly didn't think it was all that bad, compare it to some of the approaches in Death Valley and it's a walk in the park. Boundary was not flowing when we did it on the 15th. Have fun!

[Bootboy]

Just called Washington County Water District, and they said it is being released at 3 CFS through next week.

Wtf. I called yesterday (monday) and the girl I talked to said it was shut off for the year.... Hard to trust them

[Mountaineer]

Wtf. I called yesterday (monday) and the girl I talked to said it was shut off for the year.... Hard to trust them

Yikes...not good.

[nelsonccc]

It's bad. We take a variation on the usual exit that is more direct and steeper but way faster and gets you to road sooner. We typically do the first part to the knoll (which is rough, loose, pulling yourself up by your hands). Then we rest for a bit. Then we go straight up the cliff face on the right instead of going down and then back up. A bit exposed and definitely steeper but it gets us to the easy road hiking way faster. Also the dirt scrambling is bad but for me it seems the road is always the worst part. You're already beat and tired and then begins the long slog up the road.

This TR actually has some good pics of what to expect. http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?30858-Boundary-6-21

[ratagonia]

Wtf. I called yesterday (monday) and the girl I talked to said it was shut off for the year.... Hard to trust them

3CFS is, in essence, "shut off".

They are not releasing irrigation water, just some for the fishes.

Please do not get upset about a non-difference.

Tom

[ratagonia]

It's bad. We take a variation on the usual exit that is more direct and steeper but way faster and gets you to road sooner. We typically do the first part to the knoll (which is rough, loose, pulling yourself up by your hands). Then we rest for a bit. Then we go straight up the cliff face on the right instead of going down and then back up. A bit exposed and definitely steeper but it gets us to the easy road hiking way faster. Also the dirt scrambling is bad but for me it seems the road is always the worst part. You're already beat and tired and then begins the long slog up the road.

This TR actually has some good pics of what to expect. http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?30858-Boundary-6-21

I used to do this, but...

A. Time to the Pipe Spring via both routes was very close to the same (because the "shortcut" puts you up on the road sooner, but the walk to the pipe spring makes up the difference).

B. the route is devious, and very hard to describe, and being off the route means 5th class rock climbing (very dangerous - you go first); and...

C. a key foothold that one steps to over an abyss was largely gone, last time I did it. Without that foothold, I'm not sure I could in good faith take people up that way.

So, yeah, maybe. without being shown the route, I think it would be foolish to go up that way and expect to find it.

Tom

[nelsonccc]

I used to do this, but...

A. Time to the Pipe Spring via both routes was very close to the same (because the "shortcut" puts you up on the road sooner, but the walk to the pipe spring makes up the difference).

B. the route is devious, and very hard to describe, and being off the route means 5th class rock climbing (very dangerous - you go first); and...

C. a key foothold that one steps to over an abyss was largely gone, last time I did it. Without that foothold, I'm not sure I could in good faith take people up that way.

So, yeah, maybe. without being shown the route, I think it would be foolish to go up that way and expect to find it.

Tom

Not for the faint of heart for sure. But I do think it's easier. I don't remember a step over an abyss but I do remember doing some friction moves on some pretty steep sandstone with huge penalty points. It was a simple mantle that really wasn't much except a slip meant a pretty big fall/slide.

We go straight up it to the road then go right on the road all the way back almost to the head of Boundary. Then up a little trail to the main road. Not as direct as the typical road slog but seems much easier. However the last time we were out of water and ended up going to the spring and beat another party to the spring by a good 15 minutes. I think that the roads from the spring to the TH are steep and never ending whereas going around the knoll towards Boundary seemed much less severe. Both routes took us about the same time.

[Bootboy]

Just did the MIA yesterday. 1 hour even to the road. And that was with a short break half way up. Not as bad as I remember, still not something is like to do on a regular basis.

A side note: We (3 of us) did Kolob car-car in just under 9 hours.

[Bootboy]

3CFS is, in essence, "shut off".

They are not releasing irrigation water, just some for the fishes.

Please do not get upset about a non-difference.

Tom

I didn't get upset, just a little confused. We just did it yesterday and it was just less 1cfs, a trickle, like what a garden hose puts out with moderate pressure.

[Felicia]

We go straight up it to the road then go right on the road all the way back almost to the head of Boundary. Then up a little trail to the main road. Not as direct as the typical road slog but seems much easier.

How many people use this exit route? When I was up in that are in June I wondered if people would take this route as an exit. I assume that most head for Pipe Springs for the fresh water.

Felicia

[ratagonia]

I didn't get upset, just a little confused. We just did it yesterday and it was just less 1cfs, a trickle, like what a garden hose puts out with moderate pressure.

And then also, while they release X up at the dam, at the start of the canyon the flow is Y. There's a couple miles of streambed in between, and the water most likely will increase or decrease depending on water table conditions... X does not equal Y, usually.

Tom

[Bootboy]

I figured that much,

[Jolly Green]

Just experienced the MIA a few days ago for the first time. Kind of like getting kicked in the nads and while you're bent over in pain it gives you a nice 3 Stooges poke to the eyes. Seriously the worst part is that a lot of the upper section is sand-like so you kind of slip a little with each step while relying on the roots of little sproutlet trees to keep you from rolling back down the mountain. Definitely recommend a fitness level above couch potato for this one.

[ratagonia]

The fixed rope at the top is a big help.

----

But back to the original question...

We had talked, BITD, about a Zion bushwhacking rating system. When FINDING the MIA, the rating would be a "5", and would set the standard for that. My first two times up the MIA, we did not find it all the way, and both trips did sections of "10".

I've done other bushwhacks in Zion that were pretty gnarly. Guess that one section of Mt of Mystery would be an "11", 'cause I needed a rope for that! Our recent foray to the top of "No Good" I would rate an "8" - very difficult and strenuous, but without the fear of death if one slipped.

These days, the 'trail' is much easier to 'find', and I have it down pretty well. With the fixed rope, if you find the easiest way, it is about an MIA 3, or 4 or the most.

Tom

[Mountaineer]

The fixed rope at the top is a big help.

----


Tom,
Can you elaborate? Do you fix ropes in prep for the final MIA ascent at the head of pipe canyon? Where and how many lengths? Thanks so much.

[tanya]

That depends. My rating before I was 50 or after. :mrgreen:

[Bootboy]

Tom,
Can you elaborate? Do you fix ropes in prep for the final MIA ascent at the head of pipe canyon? Where and how many lengths? Thanks so much.

There are 2 ropes in place. The lower one is kinda sketchy hardware store rope, just use it for balance. The second one is a stout piece of 1/2" static line and is very helpful. The fixed ropes deposit you about 50' from the road.

[Mountaineer]

There are 2 ropes in place.

Thank you!

[SRG]

[QUOTE]Coming home from work and finding Sof

[Mojave Silence]

MIA trail = death-march

[taatmk]

That depends. My rating before I was 50 or after. :mrgreen:


:) I hear you on that one! LOL Me too.

[taatmk]

But back to the original question...

We had talked, BITD, about a Zion bushwhacking rating system. When FINDING the MIA, the rating would be a "5", and would set the standard for that. My first two times up the MIA, we did not find it all the way, and both trips did sections of "10".

I've done other bushwhacks in Zion that were pretty gnarly. Guess that one section of Mt of Mystery would be an "11", 'cause I needed a rope for that! Our recent foray to the top of "No Good" I would rate an "8" - very difficult and strenuous, but without the fear of death if one slipped.

These days, the 'trail' is much easier to 'find', and I have it down pretty well. With the fixed rope, if you find the easiest way, it is about an MIA 3, or 4 or the most.


Thanks Tom. This was very helpful!!

[Mountaineer]

Just did this for the first time yesterday, very fresh on the "bruises and scrapes still", so just adding my opinion.

The fixed ropes on the end are nice (thanks to the person put them there); and while that section is steep, it wasn't the hardest spot. We didn't need the ropes.

The hardest section is about half way, below a rock wall and traverse before you cross over the drainage (referring to the most social and prevalent trail you can see marked with bright ribbon). This section is straight up, with just sand and small twigs to grab. Unfortunately, these twigs are becoming scarce. Furthermore, there were some really good branches to grab a hold of but most are now compromised (broken from previous use). Not reliable. This area is sketchy, and the best place for a fixed rope.

The most mentally challenging piece is when you get to the nice road. You're completely worn out at that point, with ~2 miles to go. :stud:

Has anyone got permission from the church to leave an ATV or vehicle?

[taatmk]

Has anyone got permission from the church to leave an ATV or vehicle?

That's what I have been wondering. Maybe in compensation for doing a service project at the camp so something...

[Slot Machine]

Thinking of doing Kolob in a couple of weeks...

If my group has two trucks, would it be possible to set up a shuttle and park one of the trucks on the rim of the MIA exit, saving us from a couple of miles of slog?

You know, a truck containing a cooler full of ice cold beverages? :kickit:

[dude9478]

Unless you have a key to the gate right below the parking area I think you are out of luck.


Thinking of doing Kolob in a couple of weeks...

If my group has two trucks, would it be possible to set up a shuttle and park one of the trucks on the rim of the MIA exit, saving us from a couple of miles of slog?

You know, a truck containing a coller full of ice and cold beverages? :kickit:

[Slot Machine]

Aww!! :frustrated:

Suspected that a gate was there, didn't know for sure. Thanks!

[dude9478]

You're welcome

Aww!! :frustrated:

Suspected that a gate was there, didn't know for sure. Thanks!

[Mountaineer]

Thinking of doing Kolob in a couple of weeks...



It's one of the best in Zion. You'll love it.

[tanya]

I love Kolob!

[ratagonia]

Thinking of doing Kolob in a couple of weeks...

If my group has two trucks, would it be possible to set up a shuttle and park one of the trucks on the rim of the MIA exit, saving us from a couple of miles of slog?

You know, a truck containing a cooler full of ice cold beverages? :kickit:

A good idea, but...

You would need two things to go down there:

The key; and

Permission.

If the gate is open, it is NOT OK to drive into the MIA area. The gate could be locked behind you, AND you could be cited for trespassing.

Tom

[canyonguru]

I have been trying to figure out which stake here in las vegas is using the property. I believe that the Stake in Green Valley area uses the property by Oak Creek. I will do some more research and get back to you. I am pretty sure that it is a stake here in las vegas that has acess and use of the MIA area. Would be pretty sweet have a car right there as you hit the road. I have yet to do any canyons up there but plan on it soon.

[Wasatch]

It sucks. I've done it twice. First time we ****ed up big time. The second time my buddy knew the exact way out and it still sucked. So, if you don't know the way out, it will suck, if you do know the way out it will still suck.

[Mountaineer]

It sucks. I've done it twice. First time we ****ed up big time. The second time my buddy knew the exact way out and it still sucked. So, if you don't know the way out, it will suck, if you do know the way out it will still suck.

Ha ha...:-)

[Cr8on]

it's like hiking out of the approach of mystery and stacking the subway exit on top...

[Bclark29]

I've done the MIA twice, both for Kolob, it sucks BAD. Very steep! And once you get to the main dirt roads, it feels like it will never end.

[neumannbruce]

I think for me, rating the MIA boils down to how physically fit you are and what time of year it is. I’ve done it in April/May and July/August/September and cooler is nice, but being fit enough is key (along with a fit team so gear is evenly distributed). The first time I did it, It was early season and I hadn’t done a lot of hiking, and I thought it sucked, but once into the season I was fitter and I didn’t think it was so physically taxing. I’ve done it in about 2hrs and up to 3hrs.

Better than hiking all the way out and dealing with permits and long shuttles.

[Bootboy]

Cooler weather really makes a difference. The first time I did it was in August and it was hot and humid. I'd never sweat so hard in my life and it took us right around 2 hours. But I've also done it at the end of September. Nearly 10 degrees cooler and much drier, I was also in much better shape and we did it in under an hour and 1/2. It didn't really feel quite like the same hike. Conditions and conditioning will be the two biggest factors for your MIA experience.

[flatiron]

Conditions and conditioning will be the two biggest factors for your MIA experience.
Absolutely! And what you like or dislike. Our group hikes a lot at altitude, we look for new different ways to get up mountains, and the MIA is just another version of that. A hump, but a FUN hump. Considering it has a lot of shade and we did it in Sept I thought it was not bad at all. Thought hiking up that exposed dusty road much worse! I love hiking in Utah and just consider any entry or exit hike, routefinding, part of the adventure. State of mind maybe? Enjoy it, embrace it, lalala. :nod: Or not. :fitz:

[Iceaxe]

Biggest problem with the MIA is after the steep climb you still have a boring long ass hike to look forward to.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3