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Slot Machine
09-18-2012, 01:17 AM
Shenanigans has the reputation of being a frightening canyon. As a team we did our best to prepare for it and it still scared the hell out of us. Steph, Tyler, Aralynn and I took on the challenge September 15th, 2012.

Most trip reports convey the experience of a canyon better with pictures. I'll attempt to convey the experience better with words. I'm just going to lay it all out, it was an emotional experience. Not sharing our reactions would be disingenuous.

So, we did Middle Leprechaun together. I've done Chambers Canyon. I'm 5'9", 173 lbs. Shenany should be no big deal. Right?

Wrong.


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Shenanigans Canyon starts out very tame; it's typical North Wash fare for some distance. It's very pretty. It builds your confidence as you descend. Then you arrive at a slanted hallway. Part of that hallway is pitch black and it is also looks tapered at the bottom. It looks as if the smallest person would certainly become wedged between the walls if they proceeded at ground level.

Steph wanted to lead the hard sections since she doesn't like to be stuck between people in a canyon. Claustrophobia is her canyoneering Achilles' heel. We tentatively entered the slanted hallway. Soon the walls closed in, heightening Stephanie's fears. She is tough, and rarely cries, but the feeling of entrapment was overwhelming and she couldn't continue. She wept and pleaded to go back the way we came. We rested for a bit and tried to calm her nerves. We decided that I should climb over the top of her and lead. In a canyon that narrow, it's easier said than done.

I chimney climbed up to a log jammed above Stephanie's head. I then inspected the remainder of the hallway from my perch with a flashlight to make sure we weren't heading into a trap (yeah, the beta says it isn't a trap, but your eyes will tell you otherwise when you are there). Once we could see the rest of the hallway, Steph decided to continue leading. I descended back to my spot behind Stephanie and we finished that section unscathed.

Steph and I negotiating a tight section before the slanted hallway.
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Soon we arrived at the Grim Crawl. It's gorgeous! It is also a formidable obstacle. We found a pretty good deadman anchor laying near the edge. It had been washed up form a recent flash flood. It was a single stone the size of a cantaloupe expertly wrapped in webbing. We cleaned it off, adjusted the webbing and tried to find a good place to bury it. It was difficult because there is a large hump in front of the drop which forces the deadman up and out of the ground when you weight the rope.

Anyway, we dug up as many stones as we could find and placed them on top of the deadman and buried it deep in the sand.

The Grim Crawl
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Taking a good look at The Crawl (B&W just for fun)
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Our Deadman Anchor
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We discussed our options. I laid down on the Grim Crawl. Yeah, no thanks. My anchor building skills are better than my belly-crawling-along-sloped-shelf skills. I pointed to a large chokestone next to the ledge of the Grim Craw and said "I believe that the downclimb from that ledge is pretty easy, once you get across the Grim Crawl." Tyler agreed that the downclimb looked easy from the top. It appeared to be a solid plan B. Rappelling off of the deadman was plan A.

To be clear, I wasn't setting Tyler up for an epic. He can handle himself. Tyler's bag of climbing tricks is pretty deep. He can climb 5.12 and boulder V7 routes. We both agreed that the Grim Crawl and the following chimney downclimb was no big deal- for him.

Well, it came time to get some people down. Steph tested the deadman first (backed up with meat). It moved enough to crack the mountain of sand on top of it, but not enough to worry about.

I then proceeded to rappel off the deadman with Tyler backing it up. I rapped fast and stopped hard to test it. I hit the anchor as hard as I could. It didn't budge. Sweet! For our needs, it was bomber!

Then the unexpected happened. While talking about the "easy downclimb", Aralynn didn't think I meant "chimney downclimb". She envisioned downclimbing boulders when I said "easy downclimb". She also thought I was talking to the group and not specifically to Tyler. In hindsight, this is easy to understand.

So, instead of rappelling, Aralynn headed for the Grim Crawl. She is very small, less than 100 lbs. She thought the Grim Crawl was easy, and sped across it without hesitation. Once on the far shelf, she thought she was home free. Tyler also committed to the Crawl and tossed the rope down to me and Steph. He was a little spooked as he made the moves, but also made it across quickly.

From the bottom, the chimney downclimb looked like about 40 feet. From the top, to someone who has never descended a tall chimney (Aralynn), I'm sure it seemed much higher.

Tyler descended the chimney first. He only went down about 10 feet and coaxed Aralynn off the edge. She made the committing move that pins your body between the walls of the slot. She looked down at Tyler and then all the way to the bottom. Panic set in. That was a bad spot to have uncontrollable, adrenaline-fueled crying, but there is little one can do about that kind of fear. If she fell she probably would have died, and she knew it.

With some great coaching from Tyler, she did arrive safely at the bottom. It took about 45 minutes and many tears were shed. We all learned some important lessons from the Grim Crawl.

We headed down canyon through a fantastic twisty slot and underneath a very small arch. Then we arrived at a very long, well-lit, ultra-tight hallway. I was in the lead. Many parts of this section clamped down on my chest as I headed through. I never got stuck and my confidence continued to build as we flew through 200 feet of nightmarishly narrow slot canyon.

That all came to an end in a big hurry. Suddenly I couldn't get through. I tried again. No way. I extended my arms upward and breathed out hard. No again. I looked up, maybe to chimney up and over... not an option. I looked down... yes, it was perhaps two inches wider. I laid down on my side and started to scoot along using the side of my arm against the floor of the canyon. I couldn't see where I was going because there wasn't enough room for my head to tilt backwards with my helmet on. I used my free hand to remove my helmet and tossed it downcanyon. The bottom of the canyon narrowed slightly as I scooted along. Soon, I became stuck in that position. It was horrifying. I began to panic.

Steph was cheering me on the whole way, confident that I could make it. When I became stuck she stood next to the soles of my feet and let me use her ankle/leg as a springboard to propel myself along the canyon floor (really, really scary). I scooted another 10 feet until I could see the canyon widen above me, maybe an inch. However, I was still stuck laying on my side; there was simply not enough space to bend the arm underneath me to push myself into an upright position. Steph extended her hand down and pulled me to an upright position.

I then stuck my open hand across the width of the canyon. My hand is 9 3/4 inches from thumb to pinky. I've been in several canyons that skinny, but that section of Shenany takes the cake. I curled my pinky finger inward and could still touch both sides of the canyon!! It was almost like touching a hot stove, I pulled my hand back in horror- in pure disbelief. I knew I wouldn't fit. It was that width by my feet as well.

Exhausted, I looked at my options. It would have been be hell to go back. I looked up and noticed that the canyon widened very slightly above me. Going up and over the next 20 feet of canyon was my only option. I chimney climbed up two feet, which was no easy task in a canyon 10 inches wide. I ran out of strength and had to come back to the ground. Panic began to swell in my chest.

Fear of the unknown is bad. Fear of the known is even worse. I knew what kind of obstacle we were dealing with and knew I couldn't get out. I tried again. As I climbed Stephanie had the great idea of pushing on the sole of my upcanyon foot. This technique proved to be very helpful. Without her assistance I wouldn't have made it up and over the 8 inch wide slot.

They all made it through behind me then the canyon opened up and and we rested for a moment. The feeling of relief was overwhelming. A tidal wave of raw unexpected emotion hit me. I began to hyperventilate. I began to sob. Shenanigans had also broken me down emotionally and there was nothing I could do about it... We had a couple of quiet minutes and moved forward.

The exit sequence was great; somewhat poetic after such a harrowing canyon. We all downclimbed the first 50 feet, and rappelled the last 50. We zipped lined our packs across the water then carefully negotiated the ledge of the pool without falling in.

A great view of the final downclimb and rappel. The pool is visible 100 feet below.
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Steph staying dry.
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The Kelsey Exit wasn't nearly as bad as it looks. We watched the last of the daylight march across Butler Canyon as we climbed it.

Was Shenanigans an awesome canyon? Certainly. Would I do it again? No way.

Bob

http://amazingslots.blogspot.com/2012/09/shenanigans.html

shagdeuce
09-18-2012, 02:24 AM
Great report. Thanks for genuinely describing the emotions. There are many deep-seated fears that I think most of us have in canyoneering (fears that we hope never actually play out). When kept in check, the fears are probably a good thing because they make us cautious. Looks like you got to the edge of a couple of them without ultimately getting caught. You described the situations and feelings perfectly.

Mountaineer
09-18-2012, 06:41 AM
Wow, Shenanigans needs a few more thousand years of water flow through there.

Bob - thanks for a compelling and honest trip report. Posting the "actual events" on a public forum shows a lot of character. I had a similar experience of "panic" and questioning the absurdity of my decision when we descended Trachyotomy. Very heavy packs and exhaustion slowly slid us down into a "V" that we couldn't get out of. Climbing up is near impossible. We were stuck, with no way out. Until you've had that type of experience, it can't be described.

Hope to someday meet, it would be an honor to do a canyon or two together.

Eric Holden
09-18-2012, 07:05 AM
Well if anything you scared the Shitake out of me:cry1:! One my my greatest fears is being stuck underground or in a canyon. I will stick to the wide 2ft+ canyons

ratagonia
09-18-2012, 07:29 AM
Great TR of an old favorite. Thanks.

For me, it is a once-a-year thing, with very careful eating for two weeks beforehand.

Tom

Iceaxe
09-18-2012, 07:57 AM
Great TR :2thumbs:

summitseeker
09-18-2012, 09:12 AM
Great report. Thanks for genuinely describing the emotions. There are many deep-seated fears that I think most of us have in canyoneering (fears that we hope never actually play out). When kept in check, the fears are probably a good thing because they make us cautious. Looks like you got to the edge of a couple of them without ultimately getting caught. You described the situations and feelings perfectly.

x2

Sandstone Addiction
09-18-2012, 09:56 AM
Well, scratch Shenanigans off the list...:haha:

Seriously though, very well done. Glad y'all made it out safe.

Slot Machine
09-18-2012, 12:56 PM
Bob - thanks for a compelling and honest trip report. Posting the "actual events" on a public forum shows a lot of character. I had a similar experience of "panic" and questioning the absurdity of my decision when we descended Trachyotomy. Very heavy packs and exhaustion slowly slid us down into a "V" that we couldn't get out of. Climbing up is near impossible. We were stuck, with no way out. Until you've had that type of experience, it can't be described.

Hope to someday meet, it would be an honor to do a canyon or two together.

Thanks for the kind words! I would love to get out and do a canyon with you and your boys! In a couple of years my son will be old enough to try some of this stuff. I can't wait. :mrgreen:


For me, it is a once-a-year thing, with very careful eating for two weeks beforehand.


Tom, before we left for Hanksville I read somewhere that you like to visit Shenany once a year. That fact did cross my mind when we were in there. When I ran into you a couple of months ago in Zion, I noticed that you were bigger than me. I don't mean fatter, I mean bigger. I literally can not imagine being an inch thicker (chest-to-back) than I am and completing that canyon. I can't decide weather I should say "Atta boy Tom!" or suggest that you check yourself into a mental institution. :crazycobasa: :haha:

ratagonia
09-18-2012, 02:01 PM
Tom, before we left for Hanksville I read somewhere that you like to visit Shenany once a year. That fact did cross my mind when we were in there. When I ran into you a couple of months ago in Zion, I noticed that you were bigger than me. I don't mean fatter, I mean bigger. I literally can not imagine being an inch thicker (chest-to-back) than I am and completing that canyon. I can't decide whether I should say "Atta boy Tom!" or suggest that you check yourself into a mental institution. :crazycobasa: :haha:

Did you strip naked and spray yourself down with olive oil?

Ah, tricks of the canyon masters --- I ain't s'posed to give em away, but... :facepalm1:

But seriously -

Shennany changes a bit here and there. I have had easy trips and hard trips. The floor moves up and down a little bit. There is a lot of technique to the skinnies, a lot of micro-route finding. I am far from the master, there are many that are WAY better than I am. But Shennany is a good exercise in zen mind and patience. There are people much bigger than me that have made it through.

I also know the way over, and it is fun, not TOO hard (R-minus?) but rather long and slower than along the ground. It is good to have that as a backup plan if I'm not feeling it for the troll-work.

And, no matter the weather, I do strip down to a single tee shirt for the final section. I have learned to strip early where there is still space...

hope you have read our 'first descent' story: http://canyoneeringutah.com/rave/mar02/shen.htm

although the better tale is told here: http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/ram/?i=crossroads


(note: we weren't first)

Tom

outsider
09-18-2012, 02:38 PM
Tom nailed it above. I religiously strip to a slippery (synthetic) single layer top & bottom before that final narrows, something I didn't do my "first time".

You'll probably be back. I too vowed never again after that first trial, but within a few weeks I had convinced myself otherwise. The mind is a funny thing. The ensuing 4 or so trips have been much, much more pleasant.

-john

Iceaxe
09-18-2012, 03:14 PM
A couple of thoughts on the skinnies....

1. I never go down to my belly and crawl or snake. Once you are down on your belly you are not getting back up if you don't fit. Always keep your feet under you.

2. Go high early, go high often... the earlier you go high the easier things get.

3. If you are a bigger guy with bulging muscles like myself, it helps to have a smurf both in front and behind you. Sometimes a shoulder or knee to stand on is all you need to free yourself from a scary predicament.

4. As a last resort you can always completely exhale and collapse your chest an extra inch... but be warned... if you do this and fail you will not be able to breath if you become further wedged.

5. When you are stuck take a second to relax, and take a metaphorical stick and shove the panic beast back down deep in your belly until you are free.

I've been stuck in slot canyons a couple times in my life and it's not fun. In fact it is probably one of the scariest experiances I can recall.

Anyhoo... that's my 2 cents... YMMV...

:cool2:

penmartens
09-18-2012, 04:32 PM
I am all for self-taught, but get yourself a mentor. It will save you many nightmares and phobias and perhaps save your life. There are dozens and dozens of very qualified people on the forums who can teach you in an informal and friendly environment in the canyons of your choosing.
You can also go to the many fests and canyon with people who have different skills or better skills than your own.
Respectfully,
Penny

SRG
09-18-2012, 06:09 PM
Wow. :2thumbs:

Sounds intense. Glad everyone made it out/through!

Did you guys ever end up heading through The Black Hole?

Also, the orange shot of the grim crawl is a beautiful picture.

Slot Machine
09-18-2012, 07:08 PM
2. Go high early, go high often... the earlier you go high the easier things get.

When I was faced with the ultra-tight final section of Shenanigans, I also wondered about how you have dealt with it. You are significantly bigger than me. Shenany's final section is not like Chambers, Middle Lep or the last section of Egypt 3. It is much tighter and much smoother. I don't know what else to compare it to...

Stemming up and over the 8 inch wide slot is a tremendously difficult strategy, unless you go all the way to the top.

How did you do it?

ratagonia
09-18-2012, 08:30 PM
When I was faced with the ultra-tight final section of Shenanigans, I also wondered about how you have dealt with it. You are significantly bigger than me. Shenany's final section is not like Chambers, Middle Lep or the last section of Egypt 3. It is much tighter and much smoother. I don't know what else to compare it to...

Stemming up and over the 8 inch wide slot is a tremendously difficult strategy, unless you go all the way to the top.

How did you do it?

The description here is fairly good: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/north-wash/shenanigans/
YMMV, CCPD, etc.

Tom

PG Rob
09-18-2012, 08:47 PM
Bob - thanks for a compelling and honest trip report. Posting the "actual events" on a public forum shows a lot of character.
^^^^ Agree Completely. Thanks for the very descriptive account. Glad you made it through. Be Safe!

Rob

canyondevil
09-18-2012, 08:52 PM
Bob, you are the second person in two weeks I have had tell me they got stuck in there. That makes me so, so, so excited for the trip we have planned to do it this fall. Having nightmares already, for the reals. But luckily Penny will be there to say "Matt, your fat ass needs to go up right here." Wont be the first time I have heard those words. Going through the skinnies like that (I am far from really skinny), I rather go with someone who is and knows the canyon. But thanks for sharing the TR and pics...

ratagonia
09-18-2012, 09:01 PM
Bob, you are the second person in two weeks I have had tell me they got stuck in there. That makes me so, so, so excited for the trip we have planned to do it this fall. Having nightmares already, for the reals. But luckily Penny will be there to say "Matt, your fat ass needs to go up right here." Wont be the first time I have heard those words. Going through the skinnies like that (I am far from really skinny), I rather go with someone who is and knows the canyon. But thanks for sharing the TR and pics...

Penny is a master of the skinnies - knows all the tricks. Have a great time down there.

Spray olive oil.

All I gotta say.

T

Iceaxe
09-18-2012, 09:21 PM
Shenanigans Warning:
Large frame canyoneers will not fit through the last section of Shenanigans. If you can not squeeze through an opening 10" wide you will not fit through the final section of this canyon. You can not climb up and over the constrictions in the slot as you can in most other mae west type canyons. An escape is provided before the final narrows. I highly suggest all large frame canyoneers use the escape. Becoming wedged inside this canyon could be a life threatening situation. You have been warned!

Current wisdom is if you can not fit through the Middle Fork of Leprechaun Canyon (Shimrock) at ground level you will not fit through Shenanigans as it is a little narrower. Some canyoneers set the upper safe weight limit for the final section of narrows at 180 pounds. I have never considered weight to be a good indicator, but I pass the information along for your use. No matter your size, the final narrow passage will be slow, physically, and psychologically demanding.

The above is from here: http://climb-utah.com/Powell/shenanigans.htm

Scott Card
09-18-2012, 10:09 PM
Great TR. Penny is awesome. I got stuck in canyon that Penny was leading. I got out. Nuff said! :haha: Penny is a great teacher and canyon leader. Shenany is not on my radar. I am larger of frame and better insulated than those that fit.

Great job.

Slot Machine
09-19-2012, 07:09 AM
The description here is fairly good: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/north-wash/shenanigans/
YMMV, CCPD, etc.

Tom

Your page is great, I practically have it memorized I've read it so many times.

Anyway, maybe I was unclear with my question...

I was asking Shane about his individual experience at that particular spot. It is not like other skinny spots. Hence the high freak out factor.

Mr Axe, would you mind sharing how you have gotten past that 8 inch wide slot in the past? How did you do it the first time you went to Shenany?

Iceaxe
09-19-2012, 07:38 AM
Mr Axe, would you mind sharing how you have gotten past that 8 inch wide slot in the past?

Easy... peazy.... I use the optional large frame canyoneers exit.

There is no way in hell I'm fitting through an 8" slot. I don't live in a tree and make cookies for a living.



Sent using Tapatalk

Slot Machine
09-19-2012, 08:19 AM
Easy... peazy.... I use the optional large frame canyoneers exit.

There is no way in hell I'm fitting through an 8" slot.

Ah... When I was in there, I thought I might have missed a move to get over that spot. The moves to go over that spot are very difficult, 5.11-5.12ish, that is, if you have nobody helping underneath you.

I got through and watched Tyler walk through at ground level. :angryfire: His ribcage is not the same shape as mine. I'm slightly more barrel chested.

Then I thought about others that I know that have done Shenany. Tom... maaaybe he could fit. Shane... no freaking way. Just sayin'... not in disrespectful way at all, I just thought that it was physically impossible for Shane to fit through.

Thanks for clarifying. :2thumbs:

ratagonia
09-19-2012, 08:24 AM
The location of the floor changes, so where that narrow section is, height-wise, changes on a regular basis.

So...

Jus' sayin'...

Tom

Slot Machine
09-19-2012, 08:35 AM
The location of the floor changes, so where that narrow section is, height-wise, changes on a regular basis.

Tom

Great point, however, the floor would have to go up about 2 1/2 feet from its current level for someone my size to walk through. Just saying, so other people know what they are in for.

Deathcricket
09-19-2012, 08:49 AM
Damn that's a crazy TR man. Loved reading it, but yeah I think I would pass as well. :2thumbs:

MSchasch
09-19-2012, 10:11 AM
The location of the floor changes, so where that narrow section is, height-wise, changes on a regular basis.

So...

Jus' sayin'...

Tom

I've been doing this canyon once or twice a year. Here is something interesting: I am usually between 145-150 pounds, and I don't fluctuate much. My pectorals are the widest part of me walking sideways.

2011 the levels of sand changed and for my first time I had to get down to the canyon floor to fit!

The two times I did it this spring I walked right through. Perhaps sand levels have again changed.

hank moon
09-19-2012, 03:31 PM
The location of the floor changes, so where that narrow section is, height-wise, changes on a regular basis.

So...

Jus' sayin'...

Tom

ICG slot-stilts?

Bob, that was an outstanding TR - the best I have read on Bogley in a long, time. Thank you for bringing us a full-spectrum view, with the internal responses of you and others in the group. That level of writing beats any kind of video - any day.

Slanty Shanty - ugh, yeah what a hell.

penmartens
09-19-2012, 03:54 PM
Thanks for the kind words. I will take a skinny any day over a stinking silo.
I have taken two 200 lb men through Shenany. One had a very barrelled chest. He became constricted twice and used a helmet stand to get past the momentary tightness. At the last great constriction of about 8 feet in length, there are two foot holds that lead to a small ledge about 3 feet off the floor. That is enough height to get big boys through there.
I have also had to drop to one knee to get through there at different sand levels. Mike, it is nice to know it wasn't just the Christmas goodies and that others have had to, also.
Hank is truly a master at the skinnies. He has, um... bulk and can go through anything I can. Amazing.
Tom, thanks for the olive oil suggestion. In Matt's case, I think maybe some Keystone is going to be the ticket. The only question: Is it before, during or after Shenany?
As I recall, Scott you got yourself unstuck in Trail.

Brian in SLC
09-20-2012, 03:12 PM
Next time I'm in the mood for a skinny canyon, I'll try to remember this trip report...

Yikes!

Nice telliing of the tale!

TonkSnatcher
09-25-2012, 08:59 PM
Much respect to all of you that attempt and complete this canyon. I will stick to the more open ones.

ratagonia
09-25-2012, 10:45 PM
Thanks for the kind words. I will take a skinny any day over a stinking silo.
I have taken two 200 lb men through Shenany. One had a very barrelled chest. He became constricted twice and used a helmet stand to get past the momentary tightness. At the last great constriction of about 8 feet in length, there are two foot holds that lead to a small ledge about 3 feet off the floor. That is enough height to get big boys through there.
I have also had to drop to one knee to get through there at different sand levels. Mike, it is nice to know it wasn't just the Christmas goodies and that others have had to, also.
Hank is truly a master at the skinnies. He has, um... bulk and can go through anything I can. Amazing.
Tom, thanks for the olive oil suggestion. In Matt's case, I think maybe some Keystone is going to be the ticket. The only question: Is it before, during or after Shenany?
As I recall, Scott you got yourself unstuck in Trail.

Let the record book show, it was a 5-helmet stack that allowed the escape of Mr. Card from Trail Canyon. And whom were they held in place by???

T

EvergreenDean
09-26-2012, 01:11 PM
After reading this I had to dig up an old post of my trip through this canyon. Two years later and hopefully just a tad bit wiser, I will make an admission that was at the time left out. We were in this canyon by mistake. Piss poor rookie route finding and fumbling with a borrowed GPS. Still my biggest near-epic to date.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?41096-North-Wash-Shenanigans&highlight=shenanigans

Scott Card
09-26-2012, 01:32 PM
Let the record book show, it was a 5-helmet stack that allowed the escape of Mr. Card from Trail Canyon. And whom were they held in place by???

T Glad we had a large group all wearing helmets...:haha:


I'll never forget. Me: "Clark, if you just shove me I think I will pop out of this little spot". Clark: "Are you sure?" Me: "Yes" (Big shove on my mid section/hip) Me: "Oh crap" followed by some laughs from me, Clark and Spidey and Dutch Oven John who was directly above me going high. A few tugs later trying to pull me back up canyon proved that I wasn't going side to side and up was my only option. I had plenty of space from my stomach on up. My hips/ rear end on the other hand were firmly wedged. I was a "Scott Chock". :haha:

Penny came up with the helmet stack idea and it worked like a charm. :mrgreen: It is amazing what a few inches of elevation one way or the other does.

seth.l.craig
09-27-2012, 09:34 AM
Wow, that is just an amazing TR. Thank you! Being much bigger I'll stick to other canyons, more suited to my size.

Slot Machine
09-27-2012, 11:40 AM
Two years later and hopefully just a tad bit wiser, I will make an admission that was at the time left out. We were in this canyon by mistake. Piss poor rookie route finding and fumbling with a borrowed GPS. Still my biggest near-epic to date.

It's funny, I read your TR a couple of times before committing to do Shenanigans. I thought if your buddies can make it through, I sure as hell can make it though. Not being rude, it's just your buddies are significantly bigger than I am. Your TR is what ultimately made me decide to do the canyon.

That being said, I kept wondering, why in the world would a group of 200lb dudes think they can squeeze through Shenany? Super skilled? Super crazy? Both?

Ah, by mistake! It TOTALLY make sense now. :lol8:

FWIW, I am very impressed everyone in your group kept their cool. Not an easy thing to do in there. :2thumbs: