Brake Hand Position

[taatmk]

Last Thursday I was with a youth group rappelling off of the US Army's rappelling towers at Camp Williams, Utah. The youth group was on a "ropes course" of sorts, with rappelling being one of the "obstacles." The US Army's "drill sergeant" who was overseeing the activities demanded that all of the youth use their brake hand in a vertical position behind their backs, with the back of the hand against the butt, and the thumb pointing upwards. It created an "s" twist in the rope.

I have always used the brake hand in a somewhat horizontal postion, fingers closed around the rope, with the curled fingers touching the butt.

Does it really matter, and if so, does the thumb up postion provide better friction..?

[Brian in SLC]

Thumb up, vertical? Hmmm. Odd to think of it that way.

I like whatever hand position that the rope doesn't fly out of if the fingers accidently relax. Ie, the rope would have to pass through the hand, instead of out of loose fingers. I see folks belay climbing all the time palm up, so the rope could pop out if they relaxed their hand. Makes me nervious.

[hank moon]

That brake hand position (aka "thumb in bum") is part of a rote-learning approach to rappelling instruction. The idea (in part) is that the hand position forces rope-body contact and so maximizes control. It seems to be strongly associated with military (basic) training and in particular, the carabiner wrap rappel technique. So, yeah, if you're using a carabiner wrap, with old-school mil-spec 3-strand rope, you might want to focus on keeping your thumb in your bum. :)

For more, http://goo.gl/hm2qY

[oldno7]

Just as rappelling is not static, neither should your hand position be so.
Changing hand position is the easiest way to increase or decrease friction on your rappel device.
Doing so aides in a smoother rappel by making minute adjustments.

[Iceaxe]

You should have asked the drill Sargent the reasoning. It would have been interesting to hear his reply. I've noticed a lot of times people do things because that was how they were taught and don't really understand why they are doing something....

I've noticed this "because it's how I was taught and don't really understand why" is particularly prevalent in freshly minted canyoneers directly out of canyoneering merit badge school.

Anyhoo.... looking forward to this thread because I have a real problem with my daughter sliding her brake hand up to just below the rap device, particularly when things get a little spicy, which is the worst time to do it...

:popcorn:

[ratagonia]

Anyhoo.... looking forward to this thread because I have a real problem with my daughter sliding her brake hand up to just below the rap device, particularly when things get a little spicy, which is the worst time to do it...

:popcorn:

From guiding experience with kids especially, I have noticed that people like to use their hands in front of them. Extend the rappel device upward, and they can use their hands in front of them yet stay clear of the rap device.

Discovery: I had one of those moments. Watching an amazing 6 year old boy rappel with his fingers oh so close to his Pirana --- Yikes! With small kids now I extend the device high enough that they would have to reach up to get those tiny little fingers into the device.

Tom :moses:

[Iceaxe]

I can see in guiding where extending the rappel devise would be an advantage. But my daughter does this enough (every other week), and is old enough (16 y/o) that she just needs to learn to rappel correctly and break any bad habits... or at least that is my thought on the matter.

I mean she is old enough and experianced enough that she leads her friends on canyoneering routes without dad, it's just the one bad habit she has trouble with.

[canyonguru]

I understand when you guide that extending the device is ok to keep out of reach, and i am asuming that all of the raps have high anchors so it is easy to get the rope weighted. I personaly would not do that becuase of some of the canyons where the anchors are at your feet and there is a chance of having the rappel device rub or even get cought on a sharp edge or root. i keep my hand under my right leg or butt with my palm facing sidways, not down or up, with a closed fist. That is just what is comfortable for me and alows me to have the most control. I also agree with Oldno7 on the fact that there is no static position with your hand and moving it will allow to increase of decrease friction.

Like ICE said it is just how most of use where tought is how we rappel. I do agree that keeping your fingers out of the device is good idea. Different strokes for different folks i guess.

[Taylor]

Personally, I prefer to have my device(almost always a Pirana) extended above my harness by using a short sling. A couple of reasons why: 1) It lowers my center of gravity relative to the device, reducing or eliminating the need to hang pack from harness, 2) It allows me to grip the rope with one or both hands in front (basically next to my navel) rather than on hip or behind back. This is a very comfortable way to hold the rope and control friction and speed of descent. Nobody I canyoneer with has adopted my system and one climbing buddy thinks I am just adding another piece of gear(the sling) that could fail. Opinions or suggestions?

[hank moon]

Hi Taylor

I like extending, too.

Excerpt from http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?40244-Using-the-Piranha


Try extending the PIRANA (or other device) 12" or more from your harness, using a sling (extension length check: make sure you can still access your device for lockoffs, changeovers, etc.). An extension can make it *much* easier to control the descent. I use one whenever practical. Caution: beware of the moving rope sawing against the stationary sling, which can sever the sling and make you splat.

The "one more piece of gear" thing is mostly stale dogma - i think it is leftover paranoia from older times when gear wasn't so good. One more piece of gear can obviously be very useful.

Not sure about the center of gravity thing. your attachment point doesn't change on the harness (relative to your body), so you'll still tend to tip over backward with a heavy pack if just hanging. What makes the difference is that you are holding onto the brake rope in front of you, and at a higher point, instead of at or below hip level. thus you continually pull yourself into a more upright position.

[ratagonia]

Personally, I prefer to have my device(almost always a Pirana) extended above my harness by using a short sling. A couple of reasons why: 1) It lowers my center of gravity relative to the device, reducing or eliminating the need to hang pack from harness, 2) It allows me to grip the rope with one or both hands in front (basically next to my navel) rather than on hip or behind back. This is a very comfortable way to hold the rope and control friction and speed of descent. Nobody I canyoneer with has adopted my system and one climbing buddy thinks I am just adding another piece of gear(the sling) that could fail. Opinions or suggestions?


The negative on the extension is that on the awkward rappel starts common in canyons (esp outside Zion), the extended device can get stuck above you, and be hard to shake free.

On long rappels, I like to extend it further, at about face level, so that I can hold myself upright in front of me by holding onto the bottom of the device (or just below), comfortably in front of my chest.

Tom :moses:

[Taylor]

Not sure about the center of gravity thing. your attachment point doesn't change on the harness (relative to your body), so you'll still tend to tip over backward with a heavy pack if just hanging. What makes the difference is that you are holding onto the brake rope in front of you, and at a higher point, instead of at or below hip level. thus you continually pull yourself into a more upright position.

Ok, that makes sense. I haven't moved my center of gravity but I feel more upright.

[EvergreenDean]

I really like extending as well. Being able to use both hands on the brake is very helpful if not completely sure of your friction, such as an unfamiliar rope or rappel.