The unofficial "How bad will I want a wetsuit for that?" thread.

[Bootboy]

I'm planning to be in Zion around the first week of may and I was wondering, is a wetsuit really necessary for mystery canyon? 2 short swims? If they are short I think I can manage, especially if I have dry clothes to change into. Cold water doesn't bother me for short periods of time. I routinely take short swims in alpine lakes and do a fair amount of river running in cold water.

On a scale of "wetsuits-are-for-pussies" to "mandatory-at-risk-of-life", where would y'all put the prudence of a wetsuit for mystery?

[ghawk]

you'll be fine without one

[tylerhirshfeld]

I would think you would be fine without one. Anyone know how full the "lake" is in Mystery?

[jman]

Lake is dry as far as I heard last week. Wetsuit for mystery? 0 out of 10 on your scale, in my opinion.

[nielse2]

I took a group through mystery last week without a wetsuit... only got wet when we hit the last quarter mile hike out of the narrows. I was very glad we didnt take ours...

[Bootboy]

Parfecto. Thanks every one. Probably the same story for englestead then, eh?

[ratagonia]

Parfecto. Thanks every one. Probably the same story for englestead then, eh?

Orderville below Engelstead has a couple real swims, and then it is a long way to sun this time of year. Then again, if you are going UP Orderville, less of a problem.

Narrows are currently closed, so Mystery is closed. Unlikely to open for next week.

Tom

[Bootboy]

Well, looks like plan b. the only day I could get permits for mystery was the first day of our trip and I'd like a warm up, especially for the less experienced in my group. Day one: Birch. Day two: Spry. Day three: Behunin.

[Bootboy]

Anybody know or can at least speculate how Spry is right now? Water avoidable? Worst case scenario?

[ratagonia]

Anybody know or can at least speculate how Spry is right now? Water avoidable? Worst case scenario?

Two weeks ago, it was the wettest I have ever seen it. Still, avoiding various pools, there was only the one mandatory swim, near the end.

Tom

[Bootboy]

How long is said swim? If its short and in the sun, or down to a wade in 2 weeks, I'm not worried, but if it's long and shady, I may make other plans.

These obstacles are not so much a problem for me as for the less experienced albeit competent members of my prospective group. While they possess a tremendous appetite for adventure, some are much less tolerant of the cold and wet. I hope the next 2 weeks stay hot and dry down there.

[Bootboy]

Just read that it's near the end. If the sun is shining it shouldn't be a problem.

[ratagonia]

For those who don't know:

The swim in Spry lasts pretty well, meaning, it does not fill in with sand, and it last pretty well through dry periods. There is a downclimb into it, and a rappel immediately after. It is totally shaded. Maybe 10-15 feet of swimming.

When people are cold, on a trip of mostly beginners, I usually go first and set up the rappel, and then supervise people going onto rappel. People hold off on the downclimb and rappel until the person before has started the rap, so when they get there they can go onto rope and get out of there. It is often windy at the top of that rappel. At the bottom of that rap, is a big open area and the sun, if you are there early enough, then one more rap before heading down the boulder hopping section.

The downclimb is MUCH easier without a pack on your back.

So, even in rather cold conditions, it is possible to not bring wetsuits and just tough it out through this section. The squeals! The squeals! of delight, I am sure... :cool2:

Generally, I prefer bringing wetsuits for Spry even in summer, because two of the best places in the canyon are wet places that you will probably go around if you do not have wetsuits.

Tom

Tom :moses:

[rcrockett]

I went through mystery earlier in April and, although I put a wetsuit on before the mystery springs rappel, I believe the wetsuit was entirely unnecessary. The only cold part was in the narrows, and that is a quick hike out. Neoprene socks would suffice.

The "lake" was completely dry when we went through.

[ratagonia]

Well, looks like plan b. the only day I could get permits for mystery was the first day of our trip and I'd like a warm up, especially for the less experienced in my group. Day one: Birch. Day two: Spry. Day three: Behunin.

I would consider Birch more difficult than Mystery. Not sure why you would 'warm up' in Birch to do Mystery. :facepalm1:

Tom

[Bootboy]

Guess I've been misinformed. I did birch about 5 weeks ago in the ice and snow with running water and didn't think it was too bad at 45 degrees in the shade. Seems like it'd be pleasant and relatively easy in warm dry weather. One reason I also reconsidered was on account of the water in the narrows. Like I said, some in my group are less tolerant of the cold water. I may just play it by ear over the next two weeks as far as the water. I'll keep myself flexible.

[ratagonia]

Guess I've been misinformed. I did birch about 5 weeks ago in the ice and snow with running water and didn't think it was too bad at 45 degrees in the shade. Seems like it'd be pleasant and relatively easy in warm dry weather. One reason I also reconsidered was on account of the water in the narrows. Like I said, some in my group are less tolerant of the cold water. I may just play it by ear over the next two weeks as far as the water. I'll keep myself flexible.

Going over that square-cut edge on the first rap in Birch is a rude way to start the day for those who have not rapped much. If you approach down the watercourse, you even get two of them, the first of which may have large, loose blocks for people to do-si-do with too.

Thus I think it is harder.

If people have trouble dealing with one, waist-deep wade, they should perhaps not venture out into the wild at all, but stay locked in their basements with the lights out, and with plenty of firearms on hand... but perhaps I exaggerate slightly. :facepalm1:

Tom :moses:

[Bootboy]

Point taken. I just had a different picture painted in my head. Everyone has rappelled before. If a waist deep wade is all there is, I'll go ahead and get the permit. They are still available for my day :) heck, maybe I'll just go for englestead. As long as I've got a can of kippered herring and my Patagonia sweater in a dry bag, I'll be wearing a smile on my face in all but the worst conditions.
I guess as the leader, I can only do so much to make it enjoyable for everyone. In the end, Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. I need to give them more credit. Whether or not they have a good time is totally up to them, so long as I make clear possible conditions to be encountered.

[ratagonia]

Point taken. I just had a different picture painted in my head. Everyone has rappelled before. If a waist deep wade is all there is, I'll go ahead and get the permit. They are still available for my day :) heck, maybe I'll just go for englestead. As long as I've got a can of kippered herring and my Patagonia sweater in a dry bag, I'll be wearing a smile on my face in all but the worst conditions.
I guess as the leader, I can only do so much to make it enjoyable for everyone. In the end, Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. I need to give them more credit. Whether or not they have a good time is totally up to them, so long as I make clear possible conditions to be encountered.

Ah, you declare yourself leader, and then abdicate a major area of responsibility?

There are a variety of leadership styles, and each to their own. But that is not my style. :roll:

(mostly humorously...) Tom :moses:

[Bootboy]

I'm doing my homework, aren't I?

Perhaps I should consider forcing everyone to have a good time and enjoy themselves against their will.

I said there is only SO MUCH I can do to ensure that a good time is had by all. I will certainly do all these things. In the end, however, it remains their prerogative.

Cheers

[taatmk]

Mystery remains one of my personal favorites in Zion, on a variety of levels.

That said, I think that the first rap in Birch is tricky for the uninitiated, having a difficult start. Comparing the two, Mystery has fun raps for beginners, and in my opinion would be a better "warm up" for Birch, than the other way around. For Mystery, beginners will need help on the "shimmy out ledge", at the Mystery Falls (second to last) rap, but overall will totally love Mystery. I did and still do.