integrity of state governments

[stefan]

State Integrity Investigation
http://www.stateintegrity.org/


"State governments lack transparency and accountability to citizens, and remain at high risk for corruption, according to a new study of all 50 statehouses.

Not a single state received an A in the State Integrity Investigation ranking, a product of the Center for Public Integrity, Public Radio International and Global Integrity."

from ap article (link)
http://tinyurl.com/6tnh3qa

[MY T PIMP]

So Utah's given a D. It's interesting that the state with the best balanced budget, lowest overall health care costs, and one of the lowest unemployment percentages and accomplishing these with a very small amount of private land compared to the public land that resides with in it's borders, is given such a low grade. While California who's has over $8,000,000,000 (8 billion) of debt, is given one of the highest integrity grades. It's funny how differently the definition of integrity is skewed according to the sources agenda. Clearly another example of biased and subjective information.

[Deathcricket]

6,000+ posts and he still doesn't know how to find the political forum properly. :facepalm1:

[stefan]

6,000+ posts and he still doesn't know how to find the political forum properly. :facepalm1:

it's not a political forum post though some people here may turn the thread into one.

[stefan]

It's funny how differently the definition of integrity is skewed according to the sources agenda. Clearly another example of biased and subjective information.

so t-pimp, out of curiosity, is your first inclination when you see results that you don't like to jump to the conclusion that there is an agenda and bias or do you actually try to look into the results, methodology, and what they were considering before you make conclusions?




are you a "shoot first and ask questions later" kinda guy?

[Deathcricket]

it's not a political forum post though some people here may turn the thread into one.

Government corruption and how "states are run" is not a political subject? Elaborate. I will admit I didn't click the link to your liberal site, just read the caption you put.

[stefan]

Government corruption and how "states are run" is not a political subject? Elaborate.

i thought folks 'round here might be interested in reading this and since far more folks read the general section (as opposed to the tiny handful that read the political forum) i naturally posted it here.





I will admit I didn't click the link to your liberal site
the group states they are non-partisan, you can call it whatever you wish.



just read the caption you put.

and i'm sure you got a lot out of it too.

for a sound bite of what it is about:

The Investigation is not simply a tally of scandals that have occurred in state governments. Instead, it measures the strength of laws and practices that encourage openness and deter corruption.

[Deathcricket]

the group states they are non-partisan, you can call it whatever you wish.

Trolling in the general forum, call it whatever you wish.

52318

[restrac2000]

So Utah's given a D. It's interesting that the state with the best balanced budget, lowest overall health care costs, and one of the lowest unemployment percentages and accomplishing these with a very small amount of private land compared to the public land that resides with in it's borders, is given such a low grade. While California who's has over $8,000,000,000 (8 billion) of debt, is given one of the highest integrity grades. It's funny how differently the definition of integrity is skewed according to the sources agenda. Clearly another example of biased and subjective information.

Utah received high marks for budgeting and auditing.

One of the major grades that hurt Utah is the redistricting issue which has been well documented (its a historical and consistent problem here).

The information is peer-reviewed and from multiple sources. Not sure I understand your use of "biased and subjective"? They lay out the protocols and questions in a very transparent manner.

Phillip

[MY T PIMP]

so t-pimp, out of curiosity, is your first inclination when you see results that you don't like to jump to the conclusion that there is an agenda and bias or do you actually try to look into the results, methodology, and what they were considering before you make conclusions?



are you a "shoot first and ask questions later" kinda guy?

I read it. But still cannot figure out why a state with over 8 billion in debt is considered to have more integrity than a state with a balanced budget. Why not address that issue instead of lureing me away from the matter with your passive agressive insults.



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[Sombeech]

It looks like Utah is getting a bad grade for a lack of certain standards in place, but NOT abuse of those standards. Perhaps a state that is swimming in economic disaster like California needs more of those regulations (integrity) than Utah.

Biased or not, it seems like a silly grading system for a state that is doing relatively superb economically, but just doesn't have certain standards or practices in place to prevent corruption.

Take these scores for example. Utah gets an F in Political Financing. Why? Because of the lack of regulations. Yet the accessibility to these Financing records is graded very high. In fact if you click on that 2.5 point that scored 80%, it explains in the lower portion that because the records aren't "disclosed" to the public, that bombs the whole score. And then they score 100% twice stating that these records are very easy to obtain!

Very strange system indeed. Talk about shooting first and asking questions later, just because Utah has less of a need for regulations, the study assumes corruption. (or lack of integrity)

52319

[Byron]

I agree with two things, this should be in the political forum and I would look hard and deep at the people who put this thing together before passing judgement. I'll admit the Commiefornia thing mystifies me. Maybe the "transparent" thing really applies there. They say "We're going to spend tons of cash we don't have and not try to hide it". Kudos for honesty, I guess? I'll look into this a bit, although I'd bet it's just more bullshit. By the way, Deathcricket, MTP has only 600+ posts, but I'd agree that's enough to know better. No offense, my friends...

Edit: Just read what Sombeech put up, yep, looks like B.S. Thanks for saving me some time...
Edit 2: Thanks Sombeech, for setting me straight on the OP. I need to clean my eyes...

[Sombeech]

They say "We're going to spend tons of cash we don't have and not try to hide it". Kudos for honesty, I guess?
That is the strange part, getting the high grade for being transparent, but not being fiscally responsible.


By the way, Deathcricket, MTP has only 600+ posts, but I'd agree that's enough to know better. No offense, my friends...
he was referring to stefan. I agree, it doesn't really need to turn political, but probably will.

[stefan]

I read it. But still cannot figure out why a state with over 8 billion in debt is considered to have more integrity than a state with a balanced budget.

i suppose the answer might be that what they are intending the word integrity to mean in the context of their study may differ from what it is meaning to you here. they look at many different aspects of government and the grade depends on what they specifically addressed and how it was all weighted to arrive at the conclusions that they reached. it's a rather large study comprising many different issues. for example, here is a list of the investigation categories. there are many of them and wide ranging:

http://www.stateintegrity.org/investigation_categories

so, many different things are contributing to an overall grade. you could look at the part that focuses on issues related to your questions, like the budget, pensions, etc. and see what kind of questions they asked. also the way you might be viewing these issues may differ from the way they're viewing these issues. you could look into their work to see if they directly address your questions or if they miss it/didn't include it. some of the questions on this page may be indicative of that (see state budget process, state pension fund management, etc.):

http://www.stateintegrity.org/methodology

one thing, that goes without saying, is that taking the grade at face value isn't really useful unless you know what it all means and takes into account. and there is a bit of info to sort through on that site, i'm sure not everyone will want to.

[stefan]

It looks like Utah is getting a bad grade for a lack of certain standards in place, but NOT abuse of those standards.

Biased or not, it seems like a silly grading system for a state that is doing relatively superb economically, but just doesn't have certain standards or practices in place to prevent corruption.

Very strange system indeed. Talk about shooting first and asking questions later, just because Utah has less of a need for regulations, the study assumes corruption. (or lack of integrity)



the sound bite i posted above sorta relates to this:

"The Investigation is not simply a tally of scandals that have occurred in state governments. Instead, it measures the strength of laws and practices that encourage openness and deter corruption."

so yes the study seems to be not about whether there specifically has been abuse but perhaps it could be said that it's about how easy/difficult it would be for abuse to occur. they call it 'corruption risk'

[reflection]

This from the pages of the LA Times (19 March 2012)

California does a poor job providing the public with access to government information but has a safeguard against corruption in aggressive auditors, good disclosure of lobbying activity and the way it redraws legislative districts, according to a survey done by good-government groups.

Overall, California was given a B-minus in the State Integrity Investigation, a data-driven assessment of transparency, accountability and anti-corruption mechanisms in all 50 states. The grade put California among the top five states, falling just behind New Jersey.

"California scored relatively highly on the State Integrity Index, but the state could improve in such areas as campaign finance enforcement and pension fund management," said the report by the Center for Public Integrity, Public Radio International and Global Integrity.

The state's overall grade was dragged down by a D-minus in the category of public access to information, and a C-minus in the area of judicial accountability, but it received A's in the areas of lobbying disclosure, internal auditing and redistricting. Last year, the state took the redrawing of legislative districts away from legislators and gave the job to a citizens panel.

Last week, a more limited study by the California Public Interest Research Group faulted Gov. Jerry Brown's decision to take down a "transparency" website in giving the state a D-minus on public reporting of spending.

______________
Interesting that many on this site castigate reports based on political tilting. Kudos to Cal for handing off redistricting to a citizens group, Utah could do much better there after carving SL County into so many pieces. And with the balance (or rather imbalance) of govt in Utah, in the legislature and congressionally, is there any real harm in having any group critque the ongoings of officials that march to the beat of lobblyists and leave the public in a lurch. Would be interesting, maybe on a political site, and not at bogley, to try and find a rational conversation or narrative, where differing views can discuss the dark side of Utah politics. The SL Tribune picks up snippets, and the rest, is never publicly disclosed. Where does one start? "We hate the feds" but we love their money? $22 million in a recent fed housing/foreclosure assist to the state(s). 4 million to agencies and the other $18M, did it assist the public - NO, went back into the the State's general budget. (this story was in the Trib). So many politicians and citizens living in an information silo or echo chamber, never wishing to seek out or listen to alternative views. A legion of differing values, interests and perspectives - still for some, just one view and one loud voice? Take Back Utah, or taking Utah Forward into a Progressive Age?

[MY T PIMP]

It seems to me these grades should be similar to say a college class. The important things should contribute more to the end result than others. Such as final exams or term projects can be worth more than 1/2 of ones grade. relating to that, this integrity test is giving way to much credit for minimal atributes. And yes I feel just in saying the way a state manages it's finances should make or break a states' grade. For instance take our own financial credit, with out it we can not be loaned money towards homes, vehicles, etc. The financial banking industry defines a person's integrity by their credit. You can't trust a person who makes poor finacial judgements and therefore cannot pay their bills. Why should it be any different with a state?

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[restrac2000]

I don't personally disagree with you about the importance of state fiscal responsibility. That said, its simply not what this survey was about. This was about government transparency and corruption. They provide the ability to prioritize in a personal manner within the content of the site. That said, it seems odd that your right off non-financial elements as "minimal". Take these:

1) Regulation of Conflict of Interest: How is prevention of cronyism, auditing of legislative assets, and kick backs "minimal" when dealing with state integrity? Utah failed all of those.
2) Ethics Enforcement: We got straight zeros on everything. We have no ethics board or enforcement arm to hold our state reps accountable. How is that a minimal issue? That one is important to me as it was raised in 2010 and has yet to be dealt with, even with citizens movements.
3) Donations to political parties and candidates: failed. How is a failure to audit and enforce laws regarding campaign financing unimportant? I think both sides of spectrum realize the danger of money trumping the importance of a citizen's vote?

I think California made huge mistakes in the spend without enough of a tax base realm. That said, its not the only issues of integrity in government. As to your course grading comparison, I have found its hard to pass when you have several zeros. You would have to ignore all three of those facets above to believe Utah does a good job of integrity.

Phillip

[restrac2000]

Very strange system indeed. Talk about shooting first and asking questions later, just because Utah has less of a need for regulations, the study assumes corruption. (or lack of integrity)

52319

Could you explain how you come to conclusion that Utah is exempt from the need for such regulations? How is proper oversight and auditing not needed in Utah?

The study doesn't assume corruption but the potential for corruption without accountability. They say as much in the "about" section. Even the questions seem to deal with the potential for corruption not real scandals.

Its imperfect but so are all models of analysis. Citizens were dealing with many of these issues on both sides of the political spectrum in 2008. Neither party really wants to deal with them because the status quo and lack of accountability is comfortable.

Phillip

[Sombeech]

Could you explain how you come to conclusion that Utah is exempt from the need for such regulations?

I would say if the regulations far exceed the problems, why add more? Overkill can be very counterproductive.

[JP]

6,000+ posts and he still doesn't know how to find the political forum properly. :facepalm1:
:haha:


Government corruption and how "states are run" is not a political subject? Elaborate. I will admit I didn't click the link to your liberal site, just read the caption you put.
:haha::haha:

How in the world did New Jersey score the highest with that fat, anti-teacher, anti-child (because he's anti-teacher), anti-union, pro-church republican seated at the top :mrgreen:

[restrac2000]

I would say if the regulations far exceed the problems, why add more? Overkill can be very counterproductive.

I get that it general......

But how does our lack of regulation and/or enforcement, as defined in the survey, of existing laws fall into that category? Is defining cronyism and its related consequences "overkill" (just one example of our F grade)? Is enforcement of campaign finance law overkill? Is requiring public access to legislative assets overkill?

Those seem like issues that would in no way be counterproductive but actually aid the citizens in understanding their state government and knowing when to hold their reps accountable.

Phillip