How to conquer a monster pothole

[Slot Machine]

Here’s a hypothetical question regarding pothole escape technique:

I have a friend, his name is Gigantor. He is the world’s largest canyoneer. He works a desk job where he spends most of his time posting questions on Bogley. From posting so much, his arms have become weak. He can’t even do a chin-up, so ‘batmanning’ up a rope is not part of his repertoire.

One weekend Gigantor decides to visit Keeper Pothole Canyon to do some canyoneering. Soon he arrives at the mother of all potholes. There is a nearby boulder from which he can easily rappel. The walls of the pothole are smooth and the water in the bottom is deep. He is dismayed when he discovers that it is 25 feet from the surface of the water to the far lip of the pothole. Past the pothole is a downward slope that looks like a suitable place to land a Potshot.

Gigantor has several Potshots on hand and figures he will need to use three or four to establish enough friction to conquer the opposing lip. Because of his weak hands he can only throw one Potshot at a time. He also has several ropes and a wide variety of ascenders and aiders. His stature is such that he hardly notices the weight of his gear.

Gigantor knows that is it a bad idea to attempt this pothole solo, but he is wearing his brand new Go-Pro and wants post a bad ass trip report on Bogley.

How should Gigantor go about conquering the pothole?

[ghawk]

don't go alone, that's stupid. let's say his friend fell to the bottom because he was stupid and drowned. Now Gigantor isn't quite so stupid. I'd tie the first pot shot on and huck it across. Then I'd get some shoulder length slings and, attach pot shots to them, hook them onto the rope with a carabiner and toss them across on the same rope attached to the first potshot (shoulder length slings so he can swing them and toss them farther). That should give him enough weight to get up the other side. If he is worried he can't get his etriers set up right in the water, he could try sending a tibloc with a biner down the line with some etrier system attached to it, so he could climb up the other side. Then he could reflect again on how he should have brought more people with him.

[Iceaxe]

Read this for some useful information and ideas...

Canyoneering Primer (http://climb-utah.com/Misc/natural.htm) - A guide to Improve your Skills.

FWIW: You want to throw your potshots BEFORE you are in the soup (if possible), as its almost impossible to toss them any reasonable distance while swimming.

[ratagonia]

don't go alone, that's stupid. let's say his friend fell to the bottom because he was stupid and drowned. Now Gigantor isn't quite so stupid. I'd tie the first pot shot on and huck it across. Then I'd get some shoulder length slings and, attach pot shots to them, hook them onto the rope with a carabiner and toss them across on the same rope attached to the first potshot (shoulder length slings so he can swing them and toss them farther). That should give him enough weight to get up the other side. If he is worried he can't get his etriers set up right in the water, he could try sending a tibloc with a biner down the line with some etrier system attached to it, so he could climb up the other side. Then he could reflect again on how he should have brought more people with him.

Tossing Pot Shots "trolley style" (ie, with a sling clipped to the rope of the one that is already there) has been demonstrated to be ineffective. And if you blow the toss, you can't pull it back and try again.

Basically, the "drag" of the carabiner flowing along the rope really disrupts the flow. The carabiner has to pick the rope up as it flies along, which is a heavy task, unless the throw is really easy.

Tom

[Slot Machine]

Tossing Pot Shots "trolley style" (ie, with a cling clipped to the rope of the one that is already there) has been demonstrated to be ineffective. And if you blow the toss, you can't pull it back and try again.

Basically, the "drag" of the carabiner flowing along the rope really disrupts the flow. The carabiner has to pick the rope up as it flies along, which is a heavy task, unless the throw is really easy.

Tom

Ok, so what is the best method for Gigantor to get his 3 or 4 Potshots across? He has several ropes, does he attach a rope to each Potshot? Is it possible for him to ascend 4 ropes?

Bob

[ghawk]

Tossing Pot Shots "trolley style" (ie, with a cling clipped to the rope of the one that is already there) has been demonstrated to be ineffective. And if you blow the toss, you can't pull it back and try again.

Basically, the "drag" of the carabiner flowing along the rope really disrupts the flow. The carabiner has to pick the rope up as it flies along, which is a heavy task, unless the throw is really easy.

Tom

yeah, I probably shouldn't have posted that part without testing it... was planning to next time I went out :facepalm1: That makes sense about not being able to pull it back if it fails. I think last time I went we used multiple ropes and I've been trying to figure out something better because you want enough weight to be able to get you up, but if the pot hole lip is too big or overhung it might be difficult to just batman up multiple ropes and setting up ascenders across multiple ropes sounds like a major pain. So, Tom... what would you do?

[ratagonia]

which reduces to: How do we make a rope-grab that can handle several strands of rope?

The best solution I know is to bring along someone who can hand over hand up that kind of a thing. HIGHLY recommended as a solution.

But there are other solutions...

Tom

[Spidey]

don't go alone, that's stupid. let's say his friend fell to the bottom because he was stupid and drowned. Now Gigantor isn't quite so stupid. I'd tie the first pot shot on and huck it across. Then I'd get some shoulder length slings and, attach pot shots to them, hook them onto the rope with a carabiner and toss them across on the same rope attached to the first potshot (shoulder length slings so he can swing them and toss them farther). That should give him enough weight to get up the other side. If he is worried he can't get his etriers set up right in the water, he could try sending a tibloc with a biner down the line with some etrier system attached to it, so he could climb up the other side. Then he could reflect again on how he should have brought more people with him.

Won't work. The best way to go about it is to use multiple ropes or both ends of a couple ropes. If he is not capable of batmanning up multiple ropes his best bet would likely be to use a friction hitch around all ropes, or a couple friction hitches around half the ropes each.

If this guy is as weak as this scenario paints he should probably stay out of the canyons, or get in to the habit of bringing a climbing gun.

Real men batman out of monster potholes!

[peakbaggers]

Don't have any experience with this kind of situation yet, but couldn't you do a dual prussick setup on multiple ropes with etriers? Tedious, I know, but I'd think it would at least get you out.

[Deathcricket]

Good luck Gigantor! I would just suggest bringing along several bolts kits, just in case. Also tell him to be sure to tie a couple extra knots in the ropes after the potshots, he'll be amazed at what they tend to get stuck/wedged/trapped in. Even really small cracks! One hook and he's out.

[ratagonia]

Don't have any experience with this kind of situation yet, but couldn't you do a dual prussick setup on multiple ropes with etriers? Tedious, I know, but I'd think it would at least get you out.

I would try one big Bachman Knot around all the strands first, but pretty difficult to get it to work.

With potshots, there is often a time-bomb effect, so the longer it takes to get out, the greater chance the potshots will pull.

Which is why you look spidey in the eye, point your finger at the top, and say "go"! Then he lowers a rope back down and pulls my plush derriere out of the hole...

For a non-Spidey solution, I am working on a canyon trebuchet... still in the testing phase.

Tom

[ghawk]

I would try one big Bachman Knot around all the strands first, but pretty difficult to get it to work.

For a non-Spidey solution, I am working on a canyon trebuchet... still in the testing phase.

Tom

I think I would have to have a canyon trebuchet if it were around... because that sounds awesome! :cool2:

[spinesnaper]

Bob

Is this the canyoneer you speak of?:

http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/gigantor-robot-statue_2.jpg

Weak as he may be, he should be able to belly flop on the opposing lip of the pothole in question and dispatch it without the need for a potshot, I would think.:haha::haha:

Ken

[goofball]

i have used a french braid successfully around multiple strands (3 ? 4 ? been a long time) of rope. but i was descending, not ascending. i seem to recall it was not too difficult to move up the rope though.

[Scott Card]

Which is why you look spidey in the eye, point your finger at the top, and say "go"! Then he lowers a rope back down and pulls my plush derriere out of the hole...
Tom
^^That^^ has always been my solution. Works like a charm. :mrgreen:

[Brian in SLC]

Conquer? You said, "conquer"?

Pssshaw, all these canyon elitists saying if you're not strong enough, stay out.

You want to conquer, you whip out the Bosch, and make a via ferrata to pass that pothole. Here's an example in Spain's Costa Blanca:

51812
Deep, smooth sided keeper pothole...

51813

The ol' via ferrata style run around.

You did say, "conquer."

[spinesnaper]

Sweet!

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=34597&d=1276272263

[Branin]

which reduces to: How do we make a rope-grab that can handle several strands of rope?


I've never had a problem getting a boring old prussic to grab multiple strands of rope (admittedly never tried it with more than three, and that was just to see if it worked)

[Brian in SLC]

Sweet indeed...looks kinda familiar...

51814

Take your pick:

51815

[Slot Machine]

Canyoneering Primer (http://climb-utah.com/Misc/natural.htm) - A guide to Improve your Skills.

There is a LOT of good stuff on this page... but your thesis contains 16,761 words. My attention span maxes out when I get to the 10,000th word. :haha: Maybe consider breaking this into a couple of pages? I did find the pothole info and it is helpful, thanks.


Real men batman out of monster potholes!

Gigantor is a hypothetical friend. He literally is not a real man.


Which is why you look spidey in the eye, point your finger at the top, and say "go"! Then he lowers a rope back down and pulls my plush derriere out of the hole...

Uh, ok... Let us all take a moment to bask in the unnecessary pretentiousness that radiates from this statement. :puke: Yes, I get it, you guys hang out. :roll: Still don't care.


I would just suggest bringing along several bolts kits, just in case.

:lol8::lol8:

"Joey Kinder loves his Bosch. Really."

:roflol:

And yes, above is a picture of my friend Gigantor. He IS real, not hypothetical. Don't judge him. Only food and canyoneering help treat his depression. :haha:

[spinesnaper]

Bob

In case you've missed this, this is why we call these boys the A-team. RESPECT baby. :hail2thechief::hail2thechief::hail2thechief:

From Dan Ransom's website


http://vimeo.com/7120756

[Spidey]

There is a LOT of good stuff on this page... but your thesis contains 16,761 words. My attention span maxes out when I get to the 10,000th word. :haha: Maybe consider breaking this into a couple of pages? I did find the pothole info and it is helpful, thanks.



Gigantor is a hypothetical friend. He literally is not a real man.



Uh, ok... Let us all take a moment to bask in the unnecessary pretentiousness that radiates from this statement. :puke: Yes, I get it, you guys hang out. :roll: Still don't care.



:lol8::lol8:

"Joey Kinder loves his Bosch. Really."

:roflol:

And yes, above is a picture of my friend Gigantor. He IS real, not hypothetical. Don't judge him. Only food and canyoneering help treat his depression. :haha:

Tom and I were both being facetious. To even up the playing field, I am available for hire. Then you can just point to the top and say go.:haha: Until the government passes a law that say's I cant sell my body anymore.

[Slot Machine]

Tom and I were both being facetious. To even up the playing field, I am available for hire. Then you can just point to the top and say go.:haha: Until the government passes a law that say's I cant sell my body anymore.

It is difficult to tell someone's tone when they are writing. If you guys meant to be facetious, then nevermind what I said. It was a simple miscommunication.

Rope gun for hire? Canyoneering mercenary? Interesting idea. I see [Help Wanted] and [For Sale] threads flourishing in the near future.

I would like three price quotes (not mean spirited).

You plus:

1. Me and my friend in a wheelchair round trip through Little Wild Horse.
2. Me and my wife through Quandry Direct.
3. Death Cricket, Tom, Rush Limbaugh and Bill Maher through Buckskin Gulch. (no I don't want to go, yes you guys have to camp.)

Thanks for your help Spidey. Please don't be offended if I shop around.
Bob

[Deathcricket]

3. Death Cricket, Tom, Rush Limbaugh and Bill Maher through Buckskin Gulch. (no I don't want to go, yes you guys have to camp.)

:lol8:
So a softcore anarchist, flaming liberal, hardcore republican, and median democrat are stuck in a pothole together. The 1st one says to the 2nd.......

[Spidey]

It is difficult to tell someone's tone when they are writing. If you guys meant to be facetious, then nevermind what I said. It was a simple miscommunication.

Rope gun for hire? Canyoneering mercenary? Interesting idea. I see [Help Wanted] and [For Sale] threads flourishing in the near future.

I would like three price quotes (not mean spirited).

You plus:

1. Me and my friend in a wheelchair round trip through Little Wild Horse.
2. Me and my wife through Quandry Direct.
3. Death Cricket, Tom, Rush Limbaugh and Bill Maher through Buckskin Gulch. (no I don't want to go, yes you guys have to camp.)

Thanks for your help Spidey. Please don't be offended if I shop around.
Bob

Couple questions to help me with the quotes.

how big is your friend? Could I carry him?
Can Bill Maher, and Rush Limbaugh have duct tape over their mouths?

In short I would say as nothing more than a climbing gun, you guys take care of all your own needs. I would likely sell my wares for the bargain price of 250$ a day. Why settle for Quandary? it's boring let's go to Poe. As for the Maher Limbaugh trip you better add 3 zero's to that price, especially if I cant use duct tape.:lol8:

[spinesnaper]

Couple questions to help me with the quotes.

how big is your friend? Could I carry him?
Can Bill Maher, and Rush Limbaugh have duct tape over their mouths?

In short I would say as nothing more than a climbing gun, you guys take care of all your own needs. I would likely sell my wares for the bargain price of 250$ a day. Why settle for Quandary? it's boring let's go to Poe. As for the Maher Limbaugh trip you better add 3 zero's to that price, especially if I cant use duct tape.:lol8:

Spidey

If that Maher Limbaugh trip happens, we know that you will have done everything possible even if not all of the participants make it out of the canyon.:roflmao1:

Ken

[ghawk]

Read this for some useful information and ideas...

Canyoneering Primer (http://climb-utah.com/Misc/natural.htm) - A guide to Improve your Skills.

.

Anyone tried using paracord like shane suggests? How easy is that to get up with some kind of prussik or similar ascending set up? Also, let's say I threw 3 seperate potshots with 3 - 8mm ropes attached to them. It's a pothole with an overhang on the exit and it's pretty high up. Would it be helpful to tie knots in each of the 3 ropes every foot or so to get better grip while batmanning up? I know you'd have to yank on a few ropes so the knots would be closer to even... would it work? worth it? Most potholes aren't near this difficult and partner assists combined with batmanning and stuff has gotten me out of the pothole canyons I've done, but thinking about a 15 foot free hanging batman on a few ropes seems like I probably wouldn't get up. But with knots, might work better for me. thoughts?

[ratagonia]

... Thoughts?

Go out and give it a try, take video, post!

T

[CarpeyBiggs]

Anyone tried using paracord like shane suggests? How easy is that to get up with some kind of prussik or similar ascending set up? Also, let's say I threw 3 seperate potshots with 3 - 8mm ropes attached to them. It's a pothole with an overhang on the exit and it's pretty high up. Would it be helpful to tie knots in each of the 3 ropes every foot or so to get better grip while batmanning up? I know you'd have to yank on a few ropes so the knots would be closer to even... would it work? worth it? Most potholes aren't near this difficult and partner assists combined with batmanning and stuff has gotten me out of the pothole canyons I've done, but thinking about a 15 foot free hanging batman on a few ropes seems like I probably wouldn't get up. But with knots, might work better for me. thoughts?

if this hypothetical pothole existed, my guess is it wouldn't hold on potshots, unless there was very favorable geometry for them. however, i'm not really aware of any potholes that exist with this description, that can't be defeated by other means. the wart pothole in poe is as scary as it gets, but you can throw potshots and set a tyrolean. otherwise, it'd be impossible. so this scenario seems very unlikely. there are lots of canyons i haven't done though, so i guess the scariest pothole in the universe might still be out there :)

parachute cord is probably sufficient to throw the bags farther, but i don't think i'd trust para cord over any sort of an edge jugging or hand over hand. plus, they'd be hard as hell to hold on to. way too skinny. but, i suppose it could be done. we've used 6mm pull cord to throw with.

the rest of the hypotheticals in this thread sounds like the big pothole in poe almost exactly. the upcanyon side is overhanging there, but the downcanyon side (the exit) is like 85 degrees or so.

with the pit of despair, there is enough geometry that potshots work. just barely though. they are still marginal. hand over hand only works because it's not fully supporting the weight of the climber coming out, and there is tons of friction all the way around the system. the actual bags only weigh a few pounds each, tops. (that's the only way you can throw them 40 feet...) when all three bags get pulled together, it squeezes them into a slight constriction, with just enough grab to catch. but it's not fool proof. you can pull them out pretty easily, especially if they aren't equalized properly. and still then, it pays to test them, as they will pull out sometimes, depending on how they land 40 feet away, where you can't see them.

my guess is tying knots wouldn't work. not sure how you would do it. in the pit of despair example, it think the knots would hinder your ability to throw the bags as far as they need to go. in fact, it usually takes two people to get them across. last time, i threw the bags, while another person managed the rope and threw it at the same time so you can minimize the drag. tying the ropes before throwing seems like it would be trouble.

that said, the pit of despair is a pretty unique pothole. almost always, there are multiple ways to defeat a keeper. this is one of the rare instances where it happens to be pretty damn tough to do.

the hardest part about a prussik or a bachmann knot is the sand that is certain to get onto the throw ropes. once the knot is weighted, it's VERY hard to get the prussik to unlock again and slide up. that's why hand over hand is the preferred method, though admittedly many of us can't do it. need to have a pretty strong climber to get out that way. of course, once one person is up, it's easy to fix the rope and have the next person jug out (which is what Jim is doing in this photo...)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2608/4015237150_263f52aa80_b.jpg

[CarpeyBiggs]

He works a desk job where he spends most of his time posting questions on Bogley.

From posting so much, his arms have become weak.

He can’t even do a chin-up, so ‘batmanning’ up a rope is not part of his repertoire.

Because of his weak hands he can only throw one Potshot at a time.

Gigantor knows that is it a bad idea to attempt this pothole solo, but he is wearing his brand new Go-Pro and wants post a bad ass trip report on Bogley.

that about sums up the online canyoneering community perfectly. of course, minus the hypothetical "friend" part. and you missed the descriptor about the mandatory 80s butt rock soundtrack for said "bad-ass" video trip report. :roflol:

[ghawk]

that about sums up the online canyoneering community perfectly. of course, minus the hypothetical "friend" part. and you missed the descriptor about the mandatory 80s butt rock soundtrack :roflol:

:haha:

[ghawk]

Go out and give it a try, take video, post!

T

I'll see what I can do. Heading out this weekend... might play around with it in some less harmless situations. :nod:

[ratagonia]

We had been discussing a Poe Trip without a super-climber last fall (then it rained). The thought was to bring pieces of 6mm pull cords to use for the throws, and keep them completely clean before use, then someone like me could climb them using a device. But, even the fastest rope-climber-using-devices (i.e., not me) is going to be much slower than someone strong and confident going hand-over-hand.

Tom

[moab mark]

Here is a video of a few potholes from a trip last year. As Tom will attest our techniques could use some work. But considering I was the only guy that had ever escaped a pothole and the guy with the camera and one of the others had never done a canyon in there lives we were just glad to make it to the end.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKN4a_eVTpU&feature=g-upl&context=G205fd42AUAAAAAAAHAA

[Slot Machine]

Here is a video of a few potholes from a trip last year. As Tom will attest our techniques could use some work. But considering I was the only guy that had ever escaped a pothole and the guy with the camera and one of the others had never done a canyon in there lives we were just glad to make it to the end.

Uh-oh... Quick question- is that canyon known as Infern.. oh Paradis... uh Limbergatory? Screw it, forget I asked. :lol8:

[ghawk]

Here is a video of a few potholes from a trip last year. As Tom will attest our techniques could use some work. But considering I was the only guy that had ever escaped a pothole and the guy with the camera and one of the others had never done a canyon in there lives we were just glad to make it to the end.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKN4a_eVTpU&feature=g-upl&context=G205fd42AUAAAAAAAHAA

Oh yeah... I remember this one. Very good illustration of the butt grab assist :haha:

[moab mark]

Uh-oh... Quick question- it that canyon known as Infern.. oh Paradis... uh Limbergatory? Screw it, forget I asked. :lol8:

Looks like you are catching on.:2thumbs:

[Slot Machine]

...my guess is tying knots wouldn't work. not sure how you would do it. in the pit of despair example, it think the knots would hinder your ability to throw the bags as far as they need to go. in fact, it usually takes two people to get them across. last time, i threw the bags, while another person managed the rope and threw it at the same time so you can minimize the drag. tying the ropes before throwing seems like it would be trouble.

that said, the pit of despair is a pretty unique pothole. almost always, there are multiple ways to defeat a keeper. this is one of the rare instances where it happens to be pretty damn tough to do.

the hardest part about a prussik or a bachmann knot is the sand that is certain to get onto the throw ropes. once the knot is weighted, it's VERY hard to get the prussik to unlock again and slide up. that's why hand over hand is the preferred method, though admittedly many of us can't do it. need to have a pretty strong climber to get out that way. of course, once one person is up, it's easy to fix the rope and have the next person jug out (which is what Jim is doing in this photo...)

Great insight, thanks for sharing the technique. I'll be having nightmares about your photo tonight. :jaw-dropping:

The escape looks really easy from the angle of your photo. *frantically digs through the couch coushins looking for $250 to hire Spidey*

Bob

[Spidey]

Great insight, thanks for sharing the technique. I'll be having nightmares about your photo tonight. :jaw-dropping:

The escape looks really easy from the angle of your photo. *frantically digs through the couch coushins looking for $250 to hire Spidey*

Bob

I wasn't being entirely serious on that either. Ask Tom, Ram, or Dan among others, I'm a pretty cheap climbing gun. Maybe some day I'll figure out how a working girl can get paid!:lol8:

[spinesnaper]

I wasn't being entirely serious on that either. Ask Tom, Ram, or Dan among others, I'm a pretty cheap climbing gun. Maybe some day I'll figure out how a working girl can get paid!:lol8:

Steve

With prices like that, some of these desk bound canyon jockeys should really consider spending a few days with you doing your canyoneering courses. I am sure I will be soundly criticized for saying this but so many critical canyoneering skill can't be learned viewing a YouTube video and playing with ropes in the living room (I know I've tried). There is no substitute for being mentored by (dare I say it) an actual human being who knows what in the world they are doing. It's a damn big sandbox out there and you actually have to get your hands dirty. It's critical to remember that the map is not the terrain. Yep, people forget that canyoneering from their computer. There, I've said it.

Ken:angryfire:

[Branin]

Steve

With prices like that, some of these desk bound canyon jockeys should really consider spending a few days with you doing your canyoneering courses. I am sure I will be soundly criticized for saying this but so many critical canyoneering skill can't be learned viewing a YouTube video and playing with ropes in the living room (I know I've tried). There is no substitute for being mentored by (dare I say it) an actual human being who knows what in the world they are doing. It's a damn big sandbox out there and you actually have to get your hands dirty. It's critical to remember that the map is not the terrain. Yep, people forget that canyoneering from their computer. There, I've said it.

Ken:angryfire:

I'd criticize you as predicted....

....except that I completely agree.

[CarpeyBiggs]

I wasn't being entirely serious on that either. Ask Tom, Ram, or Dan among others, I'm a pretty cheap climbing gun. Maybe some day I'll figure out how a working girl can get paid!:lol8:
after seeing your 4 year old run through no kidding like it was an afternoon at the playground, i realize spidey isn't so special after all. the whole family is blessed with genetic advantage. can we get a family discount? a little toss the dwarf with the little guy could probably defeat a ton of potholes. :2thumbs:

[Spidey]

after seeing your 4 year old run through no kidding like it was an afternoon at the playground, i realize spidey isn't so special after all. the whole family is blessed with genetic advantage. can we get a family discount? a little toss the dwarf with the little guy could probably defeat a ton of potholes. :2thumbs:

LMAO, If someone hires me, I will throw in the 2 squirts for dwarf tossing for free!

[Spidey]

Steve

With prices like that, some of these desk bound canyon jockeys should really consider spending a few days with you doing your canyoneering courses. I am sure I will be soundly criticized for saying this but so many critical canyoneering skill can't be learned viewing a YouTube video and playing with ropes in the living room (I know I've tried). There is no substitute for being mentored by (dare I say it) an actual human being who knows what in the world they are doing. It's a damn big sandbox out there and you actually have to get your hands dirty. It's critical to remember that the map is not the terrain. Yep, people forget that canyoneering from their computer. There, I've said it.

Ken:angryfire:

Thank you very much for the kind words. I would love to teach more people. I try very hard to help people learn canyon movement when they take a class from me. I believe it is just as important as any rope work I can teach.

Like I said someday I'll figure out how a working girl can get paid for her skill/talents!

[Slot Machine]

Steve

With prices like that, some of these desk bound canyon jockeys should really consider spending a few days with you doing your canyoneering courses. I am sure I will be soundly criticized for saying this but so many critical canyoneering skill can't be learned viewing a YouTube video and playing with ropes in the living room (I know I've tried). There is no substitute for being mentored by (dare I say it) an actual human being who knows what in the world they are doing. It's a damn big sandbox out there and you actually have to get your hands dirty. It's critical to remember that the map is not the terrain. Yep, people forget that canyoneering from their computer. There, I've said it.

Ken:angryfire:

How can you be so callous after my living room canyoneering accident?!? I could have been killed!! :lol8:

I was NEARLY ready to do Heaps, then BAM! - a wooden block knocked some sense into me. :haha:

Seriously, Ken, the more I know about canyoneering, the more I know I don't know. I am a relentlessly curious individual. I can't go out in the sandbox when I'm stuck in an office, so I just ask questions from the office. We never venture out unless we are certain we can venture back.

Also, I had no idea Spidey was an instructor. His company has a great website- www.darkhorseleadership.com

I just PM'd Spidey about taking a course...

FWIW: I agree with your :angryfire: rant.

Bob

[spinesnaper]

How can you be so callous after my living room canyoneering accident?!? I could have been killed!! :lol8:

I was NEARLY ready to do Heaps, then BAM! - a wooden block knocked some sense into me. :haha:

Seriously, Ken, the more I know about canyoneering, the more I know I don't know. I am a relentlessly curious individual. I can't go out in the sandbox when I'm stuck in an office, so I just ask questions from the office. We never venture out unless we are certain we can venture back.

Also, I had no idea Spidey was an instructor. His company has a great website- www.darkhorseleadership.com

I just PM'd Spidey about taking a course...

FWIW: I agree with your :angryfire: rant.

Bob

My work here is done.:haha:

[Iceaxe]

This video just showed up in my youtube subscriptions and was posted by Northwash Outfitters (http://www.northwashoutfitters.com).

Using a a 2:1 mechanical advantage system to haul someone out of a pothole.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuJ1arxN_nA

[Slot Machine]

Cool! :2thumbs: