Goblin's Lair - Closed - Now OPEN!

[Iceaxe]

I have been informed by Goblin Valley State Park that "rock climbing" is prohibited inside the park. I am currently working with the park trying to get "rappelling" (canyoneering), excluded from this general ban.

For the time being please avoid this route as fewer problems will increase the chance of getting the route opened with official approval.

And for the record, I could find no mention of a prohibition on rock climbing in the parks rules and regulations:
http://stateparks.utah.gov/reservations/park-rules

Thanks for your help.

:cool2:

[hank moon]

A broad interpretation of this?

Plants, Animals and Rocks

[Brian in SLC]

Isn't Dead Horse Point a state park, and, don't they film a bunch of clmbing out there? Recent citibank commercial for one (KB and AH finish up on Ancient Art).

Yeah, no hasslin' them loose rocks by stackin' them in a pile and rappin' off them...ha ha!

Snow Canyon is a state park and it has GOBs of climbing...

Must be specific to Goblin Valley, and not all state parks.

[Iceaxe]

I've been talking with the ranger at Goblin Valley, Here is part of what he sent me:


The cave itself is open- it's just the rappel that is closed at the moment. The truth is the advertising is actually good for us as we've already had people coming here because of your info. But as of right now we need to comply with the rules. I have sent an email to my boss to see about the possibility of allowing rappelling.

Here is the rule that is causing the issue (It's rule R651-622)
http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r651/r651.htm

If you read through the rules you will also notice fixed hardware (bolts) are not allowed inside the park. This is currently not an issue as the anchor consists of a single sling around a large bollard.

I also noticed climbing is allowed by permit, I have inquired as to what is needed to obtain a permit.

[Brian in SLC]

Here's a couple of good ones:

"The tossing, throwing, or rolling of rocks or other materials into valleys or canyons or down hills and mountains is prohibited."

So, as long as you carry rocks to make that huge deadman anchor you're fine?

Guess not:

"A person may be found guilty of a class B misdemeanor, as stated in Utah Code Annotated, Section 79-4-502 if that person engages in activities within a park area without specific written authorization by the division. These activities include:(a) construction, or causing to construct, any structure, including buildings, fences water control devices, roads, utility lines or towers, or any other improvements;(b)removal, extraction, use, consumption, possession or destruction of any natural or cultural resource;"

If you "use" a chockstone to rappel from, is that "use" of a "natural resouce", and, hence, a class B misdemeanor? Yikes!

"All incidents resulting in personal injury or damage to property, public or private, must be reported as soon as possible to a park representative."

Does that mean, if I damage my "private" property, even though I'd be embarrassed to admit it, I need to report it ASAP? Yikes!

"Begging is prohibited."

What if I ask, "please, may my group play through? We're really tired of being stuck behind you guys. Please?" Yikes!

[Scott P]

Weird. We were just there Saturday.

[Rob L]

What the eye don't see, the heart don't grieve over.

Perhaps put your ropes/helmet etc. in a pack so that "interested parties" cannot see what are your intentions?

[Slot Machine]

What the eye don't see, the heart don't grieve over.

Perhaps put your ropes/helmet etc. in a pack so that "interested parties" cannot see what are your intentions?

It's certainly possible to sneak in there, but it would be bad for canyoneers if just one person was caught. As I'm learning with my map project, working with the Park Service is the prudent course of action.

I suggest wating to see what Shane can work out before hauling any rope in there. You can always walk behind the mesa and check out the cavern, it's pretty cool.

Bob

[MPH]

Is it open?

[Iceaxe]

Yesterday I wrote the following to Eugene Swalberg, Head of Goblin Valley State Park. I have yet to receive a response.



I require some information and clarification with regards to the rules of Goblin Valley State Park. I have noticed on your park website and brochure there is no mention of "canyoneering", which if you are not aware involves the hiking and exploring of slot canyons. As you probably are aware there are several short slot canyons within the boundaries of Goblin Valley State Park. At least one of these slot canyons requires a short rappel, which brings me to my question:

Is the use of ropes to hand-line or rappel a short drop allowed inside the boundaries of Goblin Valley State Park?

If you require more information from me or have questions I would be happy to talk about this subject with you. I write guidebooks and want to make sure any information I include with regards to Goblin Valley is accurate and within the park rules and regulations. I have spoken with your helpful park rangers about this issue and the issue of canyoneering appears to be a grey area that I would like to clarify.

Thanks for your help

Shane Burrows
Climb-Utah.com


Here is the deal as I understand it.... the general rules and regulations governing our state parks forbids "Rock Climbing" without a permit. I have inquired as to what is required to obtain a permit. I have inquired as to what constitutes rock climbing, I have inquired if canyoneering is covered under rock climbing or if it is considered a separate issue, I have inquired as to how and why Snow Canyon and Dead Horse Point allow rock climbing and what rules they operate under.

So far I have pretty much hit a dead end. Even the rangers at Goblin Valley were not exactly clear on the rules with regards to canyoneering (rappelling). And they could not or have not been able to answer any of my other questions.

For the record I could find no mention of rock climbing being prohibited in any of the Goblin Valley literature. The only item I have been able to uncover telling me rock climbing was prohibited was rule R651-622 http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r651/r651.htm that one of the rangers directed me to.

Anyhoo.... I'm still working on the issue and trying to get some answers....

:cool2:

[Iceaxe]

Update: I've been told that Goblin Valley is working on the issue and that they have been talking with Snow Canyon State Park. I take it as a good sign that they have been talking with Snow Canyon as that park allows climbing and has a lot of routes. I expect it to be at least a couple of weeks before we hear a verdict. The best thing canyoneers can do in the interim is avoid the route and not cause any problems.

Be good citizens until this gets straightened out and I believe the chances are good we will retain this route. :2thumbs:

[Sandstone Addiction]

:2thumbs: Thanks for all your time and effort on this issue.

I hope someday I can take my family through this.

[ratagonia]

A few POLITE letters to the Park Superintendent would not hurt. Tell him someday you would like to take your family through, and that it is much more special that way, dropping in through the hole.

Superintendent
Goblin Valley State Park
130 S Fairway Drive
Green River UT 84525

Tom

[Iceaxe]

A few POLITE letters to the Park Superintendent would not hurt. Tell him someday you would like to take your family through, and that it is much more special that way, dropping in through the hole.

Superintendent
Goblin Valley State Park
130 S Fairway Drive
Green River UT 84525

Tom

I though about starting a letter campaign.... but I'm thinking just keeping this on the down low and letting them work through the process might be a better solution for the time being. The park has a pretty good understanding of the issues and the rangers seem to be backing us for the time being. The park became aware of the route when they were bombarded with visitors (canyoneers) asking the rangers for information. The park considered the questions as a good thing as it increases visitation, which is one of their objectives.

The biggest problem is this "canyoneering" stuff is brand new to them.

Thoughts?

[CarpeyBiggs]

isn't nate still the head ranger out there? if so, he's definitely no stranger to canyoneering. I've done multiple trips with him, but it's been a couple years now.

my guess is they are simply interested in protecting the resource, and want to make sure canyoneering won't negatively impact it. rope grooves, bolts, etc...

[Scott Card]

I am trying to understand by what legal authority they are stopping you from rappin' or climbing. The law you cite doesn't do either.

[Iceaxe]

I am trying to understand by what legal authority they are stopping you from rappin' or climbing. The law you cite doesn't do either.

I don't understand what you are saying?

I was informed by Goblin Valley that climbing was prohibitted inside the state park. I looked through all the Goblin Valley material and could find no mention of such a rule or regulation so I asked the park to show it to me. They sent the following:


http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r651/r651.htm
It's rule R651-622
The cave itself is open- it's just the rappel that is closed at the moment.


So I basically ask.... OK, what do we have to do to get it opened? And I've been pursuing that path ever since.

[Iceaxe]

isn't nate still the head ranger out there? if so, he's definitely no stranger to canyoneering. I've done multiple trips with him, but it's been a couple years now.

my guess is they are simply interested in protecting the resource, and want to make sure canyoneering won't negatively impact it. rope grooves, bolts, etc...

Nate is the ranger I started with, and he has a good understanding of what is going on. The subject has now been kicked up stairs to his boss, Eugene Swalberg.

And I believe you are correct. This is a new activity to them (meaning inside the park). And they are just doing their job to make sure it's a good fit for the overall objectives of the park.

[SRG]

"it would be bad for canyoneers if just one person was caught"

Didn't you post a trip report from Goblin's Lair a couple of weeks ago with pictures and all? That's probably just as bad for canyoneers.

[Slot Machine]

"it would be bad for canyoneers if just one person was caught"

Didn't you post a trip report from Goblin's Lair a couple of weeks ago with pictures and all? That's probably just as bad for canyoneers.

Shane published the beta on Goblin's Lair around Jan 1st. The park service pobably knew about the route before my TR on January 15th. I doubt my TR has had any influence on the situation.

Route access was not a public issue until Feb 20th. If I posted a TR after it became a public issue, then I could see your point. :gents:

Bob

[ratagonia]

isn't nate still the head ranger out there? if so, he's definitely no stranger to canyoneering. I've done multiple trips with him, but it's been a couple years now.

my guess is they are simply interested in protecting the resource, and want to make sure canyoneering won't negatively impact it. rope grooves, bolts, etc...

I emailed back and forth with him a bit. He didn't say much, other than he would pass my comments up the line. I got the impression there are several levels of supervisors above him, especially on this issue.

Tom

[Scott Card]

I don't understand what you are saying?



Have you ever typed and accidently hit some key that deleted a couple of words.... :facepalm1:

What I meant to say was I read the law you cited and I can't see a reason or legal authority for them to shut down the place based on what has been said here and the law you cited.

[hank moon]

Have you ever typed and accidently hit some key that deleted a couple of words.... :facepalm1:

What I meant to say was I read the law you cited and I can't see a reason or legal authority for them to shut down the place based on what has been said here and the law you cited.

Ah, the ambiguity of law - it's what brings home the bacon! :haha:

[bobb169]

Is this a foreshadow of what to expect if Utah were to get the federal lands as state lands?

[Brian in SLC]

Oh, I dunno...how 'bout we just skip the middle man?

http://hatch.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/sponsored-legislation?ID=2a2d473f-4208-43bc-86c3-25d500fb6bf5

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/52947556-82/canyons-bill-ski-cottonwood.html.csp (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/52947556-82/canyons-bill-ski-cottonwood.html.csp)

[Iceaxe]

It looks like the Goblin Lair route will be open again in the near future. Everyone please remain on your best behavior until this route is officially reopened. The canyoneering community will also need to do a good job of policing ourselves and keeping the route pristine and free of litter and erosion if we intend to keep this route.

Anyhoo.... here is the latest from the Goblin Valley rangers.....



Shane- I think right now the plan is to allow rappelling at goblin lair by permit only. The permits (as of now) will be free and unlimited. Our concern is about safety and erosion. I know the boulder at that site is bomber but other features in the park can be deceiving. So if we do this by permit we can keep track of erosion and limit our safety concerns to that site. I'm going to draft a permit and when we have it ready we will open the site back up.

[ratagonia]

Excellent. Good job leading the charge, Shane.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

Goblin's Lair is now open!!!

A permit is required to access this route using technical climbing/canyoneering gear. Permits are free and are available at the visitor center/entrance station during normal business hours. A permit is not required for hikers (those not using technical climbing gear) visiting the Chamber of the Basilisk.

Goblin's Lair Route information (http://climb-utah.com/SRS/goblinslair.htm)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj2jq1FJroo

[hike.higher]

Awesome!:2thumbs: Thanks Shane :hail2thechief:

[ghawk]

nice work! :2thumbs:

[Deathcricket]

It looks like the Goblin Lair route will be open again in the near future. Everyone please remain on your best behavior until this route is officially reopened. The canyoneering community will also need to do a good job of policing ourselves and keeping the route pristine and free of litter and erosion if we intend to keep this route.

Anyhoo.... here is the latest from the Goblin Valley rangers.....

Nice Job dude! Who needs ACA when we have you. :2thumbs::2thumbs:

[Rob L]

Good work! And great cooperation with (and by) the State Park.

I guess the Park will be monitoring the usage.

[ndonaldj]

Very nice!!! That's awesome news. Thanks for putting forth the effort.

[Iceaxe]

I guess the Park will be monitoring the usage.

That is a BIG reason for the permits.... And its not monitoring usage so much and monitoring impact inside the park (both good and bad). For those that don't know Utah State Parks have been under the gun to become more self-sufficient or get shut down. The increase in visitors this route has brought to the park was actually noticeable and considered a positive by the park.

When picking up your permits take a minute and thank the Goblin rangers, particularly Nat Martinez, as they did a good job of educating the big dogs on what was happening, how it would impact the park, and how to make this work.

Now we have this open its up to the canyoneering community to do a good job of policing ourselves and showing the park we are good stewards to maintain access. I think this route will take some extra effort from everyone as its such a beginner friendly (with competent leadership) route.

Also... for some reason kids really love this route. My kids are already bugging the heck out of me to do it again. :2thumbs:

[Slot Machine]

Strong work Shane! :2thumbs:

[bowjunkie]

:2thumbs::2thumbs::2thumbs:

[ilipichicuma]

Awesome work! I can't wait to get down there! :2thumbs:

[Sandstone Addiction]

Awesome work! I can't wait to get down there! :2thumbs:

X 2

[Scott P]

The rangers are leading guided hikes in there:

http://stateparks.utah.gov/blog/?p=1051

[jman]

Yup, it's a 3hr tour.

Btw, if anyone ever forgets the gps coordinates to it-just ask the rangers.

We forgot to enter in the coords into my gps before we left, and thankfully the rangers down there had it so you can rap in.

[Rob L]

I'm glad that the Park have taken the sensible approach that seems to be the case.