North Wash next weekend

[skiclimb3287]

Carrie and I are planning on heading to the North Wash on Friday to take our first canyoneering foray outside of the Zion area (well except for Ding and Dang, but that isn't really technical) to celebrate my 30th birthday :clap:. We originally planned to be there Tuesday night, but I was talked out of leaving that early for various reasons...the real reason turned out to be a surprise party for me that my parents came into town for!

Anyway, I was wondering how crowded Sandthrax camp might be due to the holiday weekend. Are we going to have trouble finding a camping spot with us not arriving until Friday late afternoon? If it is full, are there other good spots to camp at in the near proximity?

We are planning to do East Leprechaun on Saturday and then Blarney on Sunday. Does that sound pretty doable for a couple of North Wash noobs? I know those won't fill up full days, but we plan on hiking around a bit as well. We both have Keyhole, Pine Creek, Birch Hollow, Orderville, Echo, and Mystery under our belts. I also have Spry and the Subway under mine.

I know there has been an unusual amount of water remaining in the canyons this time of year. Reason to bring a wet suit? Or is most avoidable in these two canyons.

If anyone who will be down that way would like to join us either day, you are more than welcome. If not, at least feel free to swing by and say hello. We will have the silver Jeep Cherokee with a rocket box on top.

Looking forward to the weekend!!! :nod:

Cheers!
Ryan

[Iceaxe]

East Leprechaun and West Blarney are excellent slots for someone with your experience. If you are looking for some nearby hiking Lower Maidenwater is a good choice this time of year.

Wetsuits are a tough call, I wouldn't bring them but thats just me.... I wear quick dry clothes and walk fast.... YMMV.

Camping is never really an issue. Everyone at Sandthrax is a canyoneer and it usually becomes the more the merrier and a place to meet new and old friends. Camping is also avaiable at the Leprechaun TH, Blarney TH and a few other places if you prefer more privacy.

You are going to love your first trip outside of Zion. Wear old clothes as the North Wash stuff is good at beating up gear. Have fun and post pictures. :2thumbs:

[ratagonia]

Yeah, what he said. East Lep is a great intro to the area - a bit of everything and a nice hike to get up there. Middle Lep is a much bigger adventure.

Also consider Morocco and Hogwarts. You might want wetsuits for M, but you can do HW dry.

http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/minislot/

T

[Scott P]

Conditions may have changed, but as of about a week ago, Blarney was dry enough that you could avoid all the water. East Lep supposedly had chest deep water.

[skiclimb3287]

East Leprechaun and West Blarney are excellent slots for someone with your experience. If you are looking for some nearby hiking Lower Maidenwater is a good choice this time of year.

Wetsuits are a tough call, I wouldn't bring them but thats just me.... I wear quick dry clothes and walk fast.... YMMV.

Camping is never really an issue. Everyone at Sandthrax is a canyoneer and it usually becomes the more the merrier and a place to meet new and old friends. Camping is also avaiable at the Leprechaun TH, Blarney TH and a few other places if you prefer more privacy.

You are going to love your first trip outside of Zion. Wear old clothes as the North Wash stuff is good at beating up gear. Have fun and post pictures. :2thumbs:

Thanks for the helpful post! :2thumbs: Quick dry clothes are always the rule for me...none of that death fabric when I am camping - EVER! With Scott's conditions report, we might throw them in and then decide on Sat. if we want to carry them or not. I will probably go without, but Carrie may want hers... Hoping to meet other fellow canyoneers at the campsite, that is half the fun!

Trip report will follow. I am actually backlogged on those...


Yeah, what he said. East Lep is a great intro to the area - a bit of everything and a nice hike to get up there. Middle Lep is a much bigger adventure.

Also consider Morocco and Hogwarts. You might want wetsuits for M, but you can do HW dry.

http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/minislot/ (http://www.math.utah.edu/%7Esfolias/minislot/)

T

Thanks for the additional suggestions :nod:


Conditions may have changed, but as of about a week ago, Blarney was dry enough that you could avoid all the water. East Lep supposedly had chest deep water.

Good to know! Thanks!

[Rob L]

In my novice but recent experience, Morocco can also be done with quick-dry clothes (It's short & sweet and the car is just there close to the exit). Last Thursday 17th Nov I got wet in the short canyon but stripped off on the hard car-standing where the car was parked.

Passing motorists may not have been blinded by my splendour; as I said, it was cold!

I can also recommend Angel Slot (http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/minislot/canyons/?i=angelslot) (in the MiniSlot guide to which Ratagonia refers)...it was perfectly dry a week ago, although it's at the Hanksville end of the highway, and a headlamp would help for one section.

[Felicia]

I enjoyed having my wetsuit in Morocco. I see no reason to be cold when a wetsuit will make the trip enjoyable. Also, I liked the skin protection that the wetsuit provided. Of note, I purchased and wore knee and elbow pads - awesome tools to have in that canyon. I had to adjust to the concept that it was OK to use my knees and elbows against the rock. Fun!!!

Enjoy your trip.

Felicia

[shae]

East Lep did have chest deep water a few weeks ago. With a little creative stemming I was able to stay dry throughout the slot. I'm headed down tomorrow to do Monkey Business. Depending on the other two with me we'll jump into East or Main after the Kelsey exit.

[Iceaxe]

Depending on the other two with me we'll jump into East or Main after the Kelsey exit.

FWIW: East is the Main drainage of the Leprechaun system.....

:cool2:

[skiclimb3287]

Well, this weekend didn't quite go down as planned... My parents were supposed to fly back to NY Friday morning and after dropping them at the airport, Carrie and I were going to head straight for the North Wash. All that changed when my mom slipped down the last two stairs to my basement Thursday night and shattered her right ankle :eek2:. Off to the ER we went at 9pm. At 4am my dad, Carrie and I finally returned home for 1.5hrs of sleep. At this point it was determined that she had 3 breaks and it was dislocated (or as the doc put it, the ice cream scoop needed to be placed back on the cone). They reduced it and put her in a room for the night to then have surgery the next day. Unfortunately the swelling was too great to do the internal fixation needed. Instead, she at the moment has 4 rods going into her ankle from the outside to stabilize it until the swelling goes down enough that they can fix it the proper way. They flew back to NY on Sunday which was quite the ordeal getting her on the plane and in cars and such. She is now at a hospital in NYC hoping to have surgery in the next couple of days. Oh the fun this weekend was... :facepalm1:.

We have adjusted our plans and are heading down to the North Wash this weekend. Same plan as before. Anyone wants to join, let me know. Also, if you see my gray jeep cherokee with the rocket box, swing over and say hello. Trip report to follow (and now that I got a GoPro 2 for my birthday, hopefully it will include some video footage -that is if I get it aimed right on my first go at it!).

[ratagonia]

FWIW: East is the Main drainage of the Leprechaun system..... :cool2:

Hmmmm. Interesting assertion, Ice. Looks to me like East and Middle have about the same amount of watershed, and I think we can agree that Middle has a lot more canyoneering Sports Action than East, so I wonder what is the basis for your repeated assertion, other than you guys chose to explore that branch first???

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

If I was just looking at a map, and, trying to decide which canyon had more slotty and saw maybe more of the type of waterflow that could form a deeper slot, I'd probably pick the east fork. About the same catch basin you've outlined above, Tom, but, the area just where the lines get tight makes it look like the east fork is the main fork. At least to me.

Also, referring to the east fork as the more main fork also makes a bit of sense because doesn't end up being the longer also happens to be easier too?) of the canyons? I think the drop in to the canyon proper just looks longer, distance wise, than the other forks.

[CarpeyBiggs]

one could just as easily argue though that the west and middle forks have already combined their drainages by the confluence of east and middle, so the majority of "canyon" is in the middle fork, at that point. also, when going up from the bottom, one would obviously think that "middle" is the main drainage, as east clearly drops to middle, not the other way around. i've heard it argued that when a tributary enters another drainage at an acute angle, the one at an angle is the tributary, where as the straighter one is the main. probably is no hard and fast rule though.

for instance, i've always wondered why certain drainages get called the "main." or why the mississippi isn't the missouri, since at their confluence the missouri is clearly the larger river. why isn't the mississippi a tributary of the missouri? i basically remember that because it "looks" like the missouri flows into the mississippi, not vice versa.

[Iceaxe]

Hmmmm. Interesting assertion, Ice. Looks to me like East and Middle have about the same amount of watershed,

Next time you are on the ground check it out. The east catch basin is the largest. Just about everything off the upper flats drains out through east fork. If you are lucky enough to watch this system flash from a good vantage point you will also notice the water coming down east is much larger in volume.

If you are rating on difficulty than middle is tops for sure, but that is the only scale I can think of that it would rate it being called main. If you are considering watershed or popularity than east is the main attraction. East sees a lot more traffic than middle or west.

FWIW: The local land manages and SAR teams have the canyons on record as East, Middle and West. I updated both with information on all the canyons in the area for emergency use within the past year.

Anyhoo..... As we have discussed before.... for the purposes of uniformity, safety, and Search and Rescue, I would like to see the three drainages referred to as East, Middle and West. Main is a poor choice any way you spin it because it means different things to different people. Referring to the drainages as left and right had the same problem of different meanings. YMMV...

:cool2:

[CarpeyBiggs]

The east catch basin is probably 10 times the size of middle and west combined. Just about everything off the upper flats drains out through east fork.
nah. they are closer in size than that, with east having a skinny finger that extends back a ways to the high point on cedar point. might be 3x bigger, but not 10x.


for the purposes of uniformity, safety, and Search and Rescue, I would like to see the three drainages referred to as East, Middle and West. Main is a poor choice any way you spin it because it means different things to different people. Referring to the drainages as left and right had the same problem of different meanings. YMMV...
^^^this. only further complicated by kelsey naming them something different too, and ignoring the west fork altogether. west, middle, east for sure.

[CarpeyBiggs]

better graphic.... as if it really matters. :lol8:

[Iceaxe]

nah. they are closer in size than that, with east having a skinny finger that extends back a ways to the high point on cedar point. might be 3x bigger, but not 10x..

I fixed that stupid 10x remark before you replied. :bootyshake:

And your new graphic is very accurate in actual drainage. It's easy to see if you look at the system in Google Earth. :2thumbs:

[ratagonia]

And your new graphic is very accurate in actual drainage. It's easy to see if you look at the system in Google Earth. :2thumbs:

And here I was thinking water flowed downhill ??? I guess all that Physics stuff doesn't apply here in Utah, where faith-based mechanics holds sway. (/ sarcasm)

In Carpey's graphic, he added a lot of area to the east fork, but what he added drains east into Butler via No Kidding and other small washes. True on the map, and true on the ground too. I drew the original lines and they show the height of land between drainages.

I grant that in a rainstorm, the East fork might flash larger - it has a larger area of slickrock feeding it, if you don't include the West Fork in with the main. And the East Fork is longer. In my mind, they are pretty much equal, except that the East Fork DROPS into the Main Fork.

BUT, most important, we HAVE agreed to call them east west and middle.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

BUT, most important, we HAVE agreed to call them east west and middle.

Awesome :2thumbs:

Now what problem should we tackle next? Starving children, Somali warlords? Nigerian lawyers? :lol8:

[Cirrus2000]

Awesome :2thumbs:

Now what problem should we tackle next? Starving children, Somali warlords? Nigerian lawyers? :lol8:

:haha:

[CarpeyBiggs]

In Carpey's graphic, he added a lot of area to the east fork, but what he added drains east into Butler via No Kidding and other small washes. True on the map, and true on the ground too. I drew the original lines and they show the height of land between drainages.
Tom
actually, if anything, i think more of my graphic should show draining towards blarney, not to butlers... pretty sure most of the ridge between leps and no kidding/butlers is fairly accurate, the debate is likely around the highpoint that is marked with an x, and where the saddle is that separates blarney and leps. we might all be wrong :lol8:

[Iceaxe]

There is a reason the stock pond is in the east fork drainage.... thats where the water is.

[ratagonia]

There is a reason there the stock pond is in the east fork Drainage - because the terrain is a lot easier to deal with there than in the rougher middle drainage.

Your map has water going sideways at one point. Not too much of a difference, but here is a map with the ridgeline drawn in true to the gradient, and optimistic to your argument above that.

[skiclimb3287]

Sorry to divert back to the original topic... but it now looks like this weekend is going to s@$# weather wise. Don't think our first time in unfamiliar canyons should be in Freeze Fest type conditions. Not that I am not crazy enough to enjoy that :crazy:, I just think it ups the risk factor too much for Carrie and I not knowing these canyons at all.

That being said, we still want to get out somewhere if possible. Any suggestions? Canyons would be great, but if not possible, hiking would be OK. The original purpose of this trip was to explore somewhere new. I don't have Todd's guide, but a quick glance around the interwebs seems to indicate Marble Canyon might be outside of our experience level??? Our only limitation really stems from the fact that we can't leave SLC until Friday afternoon (probably 3ish) and need to be back Sunday night (we don't care if it's midnight). So we are thinking somewhere within 6 hours is reasonable. Carrie has never camped below freezing temps, so I don't want to push it below say 15-20 degrees for her first time, although I keep telling her I know a great way to keep warm :naughty:. Possible to still get a trip out of this?

[CarpeyBiggs]

honestly, if the weather is crap in north wash and marble canyon, there is only one more real option left - death valley. and those are big canyons typically.

truth be told, if you are prepared and can stay warm, winter conditions at sandthrax are phenomenal. don't even do a technical canyon, just walk up a few of them from the bottom. when there is lots of snow in the slots, the place is amazing. i'd almost consider driving down there myself, if there is truly going to be 3-7 inches on the ground. awesome!

[ratagonia]

Sorry to divert back to the original topic... but it now looks like this weekend is going to s@$# weather wise. Don't think our first time in unfamiliar canyons should be in Freeze Fest type conditions. Not that I am not crazy enough to enjoy that :crazy:, I just think it ups the risk factor too much for Carrie and I not knowing these canyons at all.

That being said, we still want to get out somewhere if possible. Any suggestions? Canyons would be great, but if not possible, hiking would be OK. The original purpose of this trip was to explore somewhere new. I don't have Todd's guide, but a quick glance around the interwebs seems to indicate Marble Canyon might be outside of our experience level??? Our only limitation really stems from the fact that we can't leave SLC until Friday afternoon (probably 3ish) and need to be back Sunday night (we don't care if it's midnight). So we are thinking somewhere within 6 hours is reasonable. Carrie has never camped below freezing temps, so I don't want to push it below say 15-20 degrees for her first time, although I keep telling her I know a great way to keep warm :naughty:. Possible to still get a trip out of this?

Moab.

Hiking around Arches in the snow is divine. Camping at the Super-8 is nice and warm.

Tom

[skiclimb3287]

Moab.

Hiking around Arches in the snow is divine. Camping at the Super-8 is nice and warm.

Tom

Thanks for the suggestion. I guess seeing Arches in the snow could qualify it as "new." Recommendations for best hikes in the snow? Any of the canyons doable for us in the conditions expected?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[Iceaxe]

Camping at the Super-8 is nice and warm.

I resemble that remark.... but we normally uprade from the Super 8. Stayed at the Comfort Suits last weekend because they have big rooms, an indoor pool and hot tub. It was only $20 a night more but comes with a real breakfest in the morning which more then offsets the $20 price jump. Its also next door to the Moab Brewery which is extra nice.

:beer:

[skiclimb3287]

Moab.

Hiking around Arches in the snow is divine. Camping at the Super-8 is nice and warm.

Tom

Super-8 is booked solid :wtf:


I resemble that remark.... but we normally uprade from the Super 8. Stayed at the Comfort Suits last weekend because they have big rooms, an indoor pool and hot tub. It was only $20 a night more but comes with a real breakfest in the morning which more then offsets the $20 price jump. Its also next door to the Moab Brewery which is extra nice.

:beer:

Comfort Suites - got a room! Bummed to not be camping, but at least we are getting out of dodge!

What do you all think about Undercover or MMI? It seems to be within our ability based on the beta. Of course this would be weather dependent. If the storm ends Saturday afternoon, do you think the roads would be drivable on Sunday morning? What about the condition of the rock? Too wet for safety? Will the exit be complicated by the wetness? Winter Camp also looks like a possibility? As for the other canyons (Dragonfly, etc.), we don't own wetsuits thick enough to deal with the potholes so it seems wise to nix those.

By the way, for those that haven't followed along or forgot, my resume (however slim it may be) is in the first post.

Thanks for all your help! :hail2thechief:

[Iceaxe]

Comfort Suites - got a room!

Make yourself some waffles in the morning... and top them with bacon.... they were sooooo good. :slobber:



What do you all think about Undercover or MMI?

The roads out to Undercover turn to snot when wet. Also, the exit is dangerous if there is snow on the ground.

Rock of Ages should be doable in just about any weather, same with Granary providing you use the longer paved road shuttle option. Big Horn should be doable.

I've done Elephant Butte in the snow, it just depends if you can do the up climbs. If not nothing really loss as you just turn around and go find something else to do, its not like you should get trapped or anything.

Here is the info I sent to a friend yesterday asking many of the same questions....

Best Brewery/food in Moab is the Moab Brewery 686 south main.

Best night life in Moab is the Rio (2nd south 100 west). The place really gets hopping after 10.

Best winter routes in Moab are Rock of Ages, Granary and Elephant Butte. Undercover is also really good but a bit of a drive and the roads need to be dry. The Fiery Furnace is great but you pretty much need to go with someone that knows the place. Doing Cameltoe by way of Corona Arch is good, its listed under optional routes in the Cameltoe section. Lots of really good rock art around Moab if you enjoy that type of stuff. Snake in the Mouth is a fun little scramble and the Owl Panel is outstanding.

[ghawk]

Super-8 is booked solid :wtf:



Comfort Suites - got a room! Bummed to not be camping, but at least we are getting out of dodge!

What do you all think about Undercover or MMI? It seems to be within our ability based on the beta. Of course this would be weather dependent. If the storm ends Saturday afternoon, do you think the roads would be drivable on Sunday morning? What about the condition of the rock? Too wet for safety? Will the exit be complicated by the wetness? Winter Camp also looks like a possibility? As for the other canyons (Dragonfly, etc.), we don't own wetsuits thick enough to deal with the potholes so it seems wise to nix those.

By the way, for those that haven't followed along or forgot, my resume (however slim it may be) is in the first post.

Thanks for all your help! :hail2thechief:

Haven't done MMI but I have done Undercover in the winter and it is very tricky if there is ANY snow on the exit route. It's very steep and the snow makes it very difficult. We ended up finding an alternative route up that was slightly better because snow hadn't fallen there. So check conditions before you go. Fun canyon though.