TCU considering invite to Big 12 [Archive]

Scott Card

10-11-2011, 10:42 AM

It also leaves BYU on the outside looking in again....
What else is new. This religion thing seems to bother a bunch of people. I can't think of a business reason for not inviting BYU.

I will say, my cult team seems to be playing better under Riley Nelson. :lol8:

(Unnecessary note but necessary for some who are far too serious: I AM JOKING when I call BYU a cult team. Thank you. That is all)

CarpeyBiggs

10-11-2011, 11:08 AM

it's the simple fact that the people making the decisions don't seem to understand that we can either play football with the big boys, and make some reasonable concessions, or they can stick to their demands, be stuck playing little sisters of the poor in the WCC and the WAC leftovers.

makes me frustrated. i couldn't care less about the religious aspects of BYU, but i was raised a BYU fan, and changing allegiances to another team is pretty much impossible. byu football is in my blood. you can't replace all the ups and downs of cheering for a team over a lifetime. but all this nonsense makes me seriously HATE BYU football. BYU was, by all accounts, a shoe in for the B12, but they refused to compromise on anything, and finally the B12 just said screw it, you guys are a pain in the ass to deal with.

i'm flying to oregon in two days, partly to go to the OSU-BYU game, and i'm pretty sure i'm not even going to go. i'd rather go take some photos in the columbia river gorge, it'd be far more enjoyable. i wonder why i would give the Y my loyalty when it seems no one at byu reciprocates that loyalty to their fans. this isn't big time college football. probably never will be, despite how much the suits and ties in SLC want to pretend it is. super frustrating.

/end rant.

accadacca

10-11-2011, 11:28 AM

What else is new. This religion thing seems to bother a bunch of people. I can't think of a business reason for not inviting BYU.
There is certainly politics in business. :nod:

The tide is turning in the state of Utah. BYU once dominated the Utah market, got the most media coverage and had the most fans. I have seen this slowly starting to sway this year and it will continue. Especially with decisions like this being made which leave BYU left on the outside looking in. I would love to see BYU in the Big 12 and I cant understand their logic. Utah made huge concessions to get in the Pac-12. They understood what it meant and were not greedy. Have fun playing Idaho and Idaho State over the next few weeks...there could be a lot more of that in the future. A once proud program is crumbling...

Scott Card

10-11-2011, 12:19 PM

CarpeyBiggs

10-11-2011, 12:29 PM

I probably haven't been following this like I should but what are the concessions that are not being made? I know the Sunday play is not negotiable but other than that, I would think that just about everything else ought to be on the table, at least for negotiations sake. What else is being said out there that BYU is holding onto too tightly?
BYUtv replays, mostly. conflict with the FOX contracts, and being unwilling to budge on that fact. BYU wants immediate replays after the games, FOX wants 72 hours. among others like bowl contracts, not damaging WCC relationships, guarantees of future conference stability, etc...

Iceaxe

10-11-2011, 12:39 PM

Scott Card

10-11-2011, 12:41 PM

Replays??? Really? In the era of DVRs is that an issue? Wow. I watched the BYU vs. SJSU replay last night on DVR. I guess it may be important to those without cable, satalite, internet, TV, AM Radio.... Seriously, who does that apply to, those in Utah County with rabbit ears on the tv so as to ge KBYU? Seems to me if you get BYUtv you could shell out a couple of bucks for the sports package that carries BYU if you are that big of a fan and then just, well, DVR the game.

The WCC thing is troubling. But I remember that the WCC knew going in that BYU would likely take a BCS invite if one were offered. Also, Dave Rose and the BBall team have kinda been the whipping boys in all this and I would think that a BCS conference would be the goal there too.

Scott Card

10-11-2011, 12:44 PM

What has to hurt BYU even more is the Big 12 took anther private, religion based school that has trouble selling out their own stadium, doesn't have nearly the national fan base of BYU and does little to increase the Big 12 TV footprint.....

Heck, even mighty Texas has been making some huge concessions to the Big 12.

I would really like to see BYU in the Big 12, if for nothing more than I could watch more quality football on Saturdays.
There are religions and there are "religions". Jeeze, you heard the pastor in Texas, yes TEXAS, saying that the majority of the "Christians" think Mormonism is cult. True or not is irrelevant. I really think that is the bias here.

CarpeyBiggs

10-11-2011, 12:51 PM

like i said, when you have people making the decisions who really have no idea what football is all about, what do you expect? the board of trustees, IE the quorum of the 12, have to approve this. i'll refrain from all the snarky BS jokes i have inside of me on this, but if you are waiting for "revelation" to come to get BYU in the B12, then we will all be doing exactly what that utah grad Cecil has told BYU fans - we will all be holding our breath until we are blue in the face.

if this was up to the AD, you can bet that everyone would've already made the concessions and jumped in. the conference is stable, and adding BYU with the guarantees of TV rights granted for 6 years from each individual school shows good faith from all the players. it's common sense. MAKE IT HAPPEN. but it's not the B12 who doesn't want BYU. it's BYU who doesn't want the B12. BYU had their chance, and it seems they snubbed their noses. it's not religious persecution by any stretch. by all indications, IT IS RELIGIOUS ARROGANCE on byu's part.

byu is going to get exactly what they ask for it seems.... i can only hope i'm wrong.

Scott Card

10-11-2011, 12:58 PM

I hope you are wrong too.

Iceaxe

10-12-2011, 10:07 AM

like i said, when you have people making the decisions who really have no idea what football is all about, what do you expect?

x2

Whomever is making the decisions has confused TV exposure with football relevance.

It appears BYU is now completely out of the Big 12 picture and Louisville is now slotted for the next dance.

Scott Card

10-12-2011, 04:19 PM

From KSL "Cougar Tracks...." some quotes today from Bronco Mendenhall

"The only thing that I've recommended (to athletic director Tom Holmoe) is access to the top tier bowl games, and that's the BCS system," said Mendenhall. "If joining a conference would allow us that then I would prefer that over independence. We got to get access."

Mendenhall voiced satisfaction with BYU's current state of independence but acknowledged that BCS access takes precedence. "If we had a conference invitation (without greater access to the BCS as an independent) then my recommendation would be to take it."

Iceaxe

10-12-2011, 06:24 PM

some quotes today from Bronco Mendenhall

What else is Bronco going to say?!?

There is no way he can say the current system sucks... I believe Bronco to be a good soldier, and a good soldier always attempts to accomplish the mission given to him.

If Bronco came out and said the current system sucked he would probably be looking for a new job. At the very least he would torpedo his recruiting efferts. Who wants to play in a system that even the coach publicly states he doesn't believe in?

Scott Card

10-12-2011, 09:44 PM

Independence beats the MWC. But everyone, or almost everyone agrees that the BCS is the goal.

accadacca

10-12-2011, 10:53 PM

Independence beats the MWC.
Really? Not so far...

It really depends on your definition of beats. Not worth rehashing I guess. We've been through it...

Scott Card

10-12-2011, 11:50 PM

Let me summarize $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and ESPN. That is all.

accadacca

10-13-2011, 08:51 AM

Let me summarize $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and ESPN. That is all.
The money is great, but how is that translating to the product on the field? Looks pretty bleak at the moment and I wouldn't be paying top dollar for a string of suck dog state opponents that my team is barely beating on ESPNU. Great "exposure" for the program...

Is it all about money? What about creating a great product? As a fan, the money is of little concern to me. The stock answer for BYU fans is "money" and "exposure" but so far it doesn't look appealing to me as a fan. And the future looks worse...

Maybe with the money they'll install some nice seat cushions in all the chairs at the stadium. BYU fans will be nice and comfortable as they watch some great match ups brought on by independence.

Iceaxe

10-13-2011, 09:09 AM

Independence beats the MWC.

Money wise YES..... but outside of that NO.

I just keep thinking if the tables were turned and this was Utah would I be happy, and the answer is NO. I have no desire to cheer for a good team to beat up on Idaho State and Mexico State at home. I would miss the rivalries a conference builds. The things I miss most about Utah moving to the PAC is that Air Force is off the schedule, no more trips to Wyoming in November, and no road trip to Vegas every other season. That was all fun stuff from a fans perspectives.

BYU only has two things to play for... and undefeated season and a chance at a BCS bowl, and to go .500 and play in the Armed Forces Bowl. Even if BYU goes undefeated you know they will have an extremely hard time making a BCS bowl with the number of weak teams on their schedule.

I used to watch about 90% of BYU games because I'm a fan of football. But I watch few of their games anymore because they just don't matter.

Yes BYU was kinda screwed by the MWC. But as a BYU fan wanting entertianment I would be extremely unhappy with the current direction of the school. Remember, this was all done in hopes of getting more money, better access, better conference, better everything... and when the chance came to have those things BYU blew it.

YMMV. :soapbox:

CarpeyBiggs

10-13-2011, 09:10 AM

you'd be up in the night if you didn't think money translates to a better product. you are also dreaming if you think the current situation isn't better than the MWC setup, especially with Utah gone. the situation looks bleak compared to what? compared to being in the big12 or pac12. but it is way better than the MWC.

MWC is worse than Indy, which is worse than BIGXII, which is worse than Pac12.

btw, looking at the utes move to greatness, hard to say that their move was any better based on product on the field. would you rather watch a team win against crap programs, or get pounded by decent programs? yep, 5 games is too quick to make an assessment. utah's ceiling seems much higher at this point than the Y's, no question. but right now, both products suck. and that's what matters.

Iceaxe

10-13-2011, 11:16 AM

It's all about athlete's for both BYU and Utah.

I believe BYU will be a worse product in 5 years. I don't see how this is going to help their recruiting. I spend a lot of time around HS players and coaches and this is not going over real well among potential recruits. But maybe it will not matter. Outside the Crowton era BYU has always went after and attracted many of the good LDS players.

Utah is getting exactly what I expected (not what I hoped for) with the jump to the PAC because they have no depth. I expect that to change over a 5 year period. I expect you will see Utah playing a lot of young players over the next few years as they attract a better athlete and I would look for this payoff in year 5 and 6 after the jump. Those should be good years for Utah as they will have a better athlete in the program who has gained a lot of experience from starting as freshman and sophomores.

Time will tell.

Scott Card

10-13-2011, 11:43 AM

I agree, time will tell. But for now, BYU IS better off independant than with the MWC imho. I do hope that BYU will agressively seek a BCS conference invite. I can only hope that is/will happen[ing].

accadacca

10-13-2011, 12:18 PM

I would much rather play with the big boys and be beat. Why? Because I know Utah is headed in the right direction. I have zero regrets about joining the Pac-12 and I have full confidence in the future. As was mentioned by Iceaxe, depth is the biggest problem right now.

It was fun watching UW and ASU come into Rice-Eccles. To see the athletes and NFL talent that they have was exciting. Kinda like going to a Jazz game. If I attend a game, I want to see talent on the opposing team. If the Jazz are going to be beat, let it be by good teams. I don't want to go watch the Jazz play some bottom feeder...no thanks.

Hence, beating suck dog state does nothing for me. I have also stopped watching BYU Football. There is no story to follow this year with the Cougars. I found myself watching the late night Pac-12 game last Saturday instead of BYU. It was two bottom feeders (UCLA vs WSU). It was a hell of a game with impressive athletes and it went down to the wire.

IMO its better to be invited to the party. Even if your not the most popular kid, it beats being left in the dark.

Iceaxe

10-13-2011, 03:34 PM

If you are happy with the independant deal as BYU fans than I guess that's all that is really important.

:nod:

Scott Card

10-13-2011, 07:52 PM

Not happy, just happier than last year with the Mtn.

It is funny, since Utah is not good this year, I haven't watched them either. Sad really, that we don't care about the former rival..... I really wish there was a way to be in the same conference so as to make the game important. Oh well... :cry1: