Zion Permit Questions

[restrac2000]

I thought I understood the permitting rules but the wording on the website is confusing.

There are 2 group size limits for different canyons, either 6 or 12. My question, is the group affiliation in each drainage limited universally to 12, or is the affiliation rule the same as " the group size limit is six for all canyoneering trips except the Narrows, Orderville Canyon, Left Fork, Pine Creek, and Keyhole Canyons." (permit site). For example, I want to take a group down canyon X which is limited to 6 people. Can I get two permits for a total of 12?

Got a call into ZNP but I know there are some folks in the community who can explain this in a clarifying way.

Thanks. Don't want to break a rule (i.e. want to manage my group size to policy).

[tcott]

They will ticket you for a group size violation if you have more than the "group size limit" even if you have two separate permits.

[ratagonia]

I thought I understood the permitting rules but the wording on the website is confusing.

There are 2 group size limits for different canyons, either 6 or 12. My question, is the group affiliation in each drainage limited universally to 12, or is the affiliation rule the same as " the group size limit is six for all canyoneering trips except the Narrows, Orderville Canyon, Left Fork, Pine Creek, and Keyhole Canyons." (permit site). For example, I want to take a group down canyon X which is limited to 6 people. Can I get two permits for a total of 12?

Got a call into ZNP but I know there are some folks in the community who can explain this in a clarifying way.

Thanks. Don't want to break a rule (i.e. want to manage my group size to policy).

There are two classes of canyons: Pristine (group size limit 6) and Primitive (group size limit 12). Splitting permits in either class of canyon to do-si-do around the group size limit is not allowed.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

"The group size limit is six for all canyoneering trips except the Narrows, Orderville Canyon, Left Fork, Pine Creek, and Keyhole Canyons."

If your group is larger than six, except where noted above.... you get a ticket.

If your group is larger than 12 in the canyons noted above.... you get a ticket.

[restrac2000]

I thought that was the case. The wording just confused me on the permit site (checkout page). Wasn't sure if I could start a second group or not (wasn't planning on it but we did have an overload request from friends).

Thanks for sharing/clarifying everyone.

Phillip

[Deathcricket]

If the ranger asks, you came in separate cars ok? :lol8:

[Scott Card]

If the ranger asks, you came in separate cars ok? :lol8: Your probation just got extended...... THE LIST!:lol8:

[Iceaxe]

I still wonder about the term "group affiliation"... what exactly does the mean? Everyone in the same car? Everyone that posts on Bogley? Everyone that owns a computer? Everyone that pays taxes? Everyone that is human?

Heck, just by paying to enter Zion NP you are in a sub group known as tourist. If affiliated means known by that would suck, I seldom stand in a Zion permit line that I don't know at least a couple other people standing in the same line.

Affiliation - noun - the act of affiliating; state of being affiliated or associated.


:soapbox:


Or maybe its just everyone flashing the Bogley gang sign in the permit line....

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27658&stc=1&d=1238024870

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27657&stc=1&d=1238023908

[restrac2000]

It definitely seems like it is one of the terms that wouldn't stand up well to a legal challenge. Hard to objectively define.

Seems like a simple guideline for those of us who like to cooperate with the NPS though :naughty:

[Scott Card]

You should have seen the Rangers buzzing like bees the day, heaven forbid, there were 3, count them 3, separate groups from Mapleton, Utah in the Park, and by chance, all were in the Subway at the same time..... The HORROR! :eek2:

They tried like crazy to find an "Association" because we were from the same city. Unfortunately for the park rangers, we were all separate, all camping apart from each other, and we didn't know that the other groups had planned to be there until we saw them. But boy did we (mostly me) get the third degree. So don't put Mapleton, Utah on your permit request. I think it is also ON THE LIST......

[Sombeech]

:roflol: forgot about the gang sign

[Sombeech]

How about we just get more window stickers on the vehicles. Hell I'll give them out for free if I just get a couple of bucks to cover shipping. :cool2:

unless you're either a hot chick or you say that Carpey has been wrong in every debate he and I has ever had, then I'll ship it free. :haha:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29034&stc=1&d=1244831211

[Bshelton]

Tell me how to get a window sticker. I would like one.

[Sombeech]

Tell me how to get a window sticker. I would like one.

PM sent :afro:

In general though, stickers can be purchased here:
http://bogley.bigcartel.com/product/bogley-sticker

[bigred72]

I'll stop by today. Lol.


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