girth hitch - belay loop vs. waist and leg tie-ins

[bcdhgwp]

I've been thinking about the pros and cons of attaching a laynard or cowstail to one's belay loop versus attaching it through both the waist and leg loop tie-in points.

To keep the thread headed in the right direction: 1.) modern canyoneering harnesses often have a single tie-in point which makes this is moot discussion, and 2.) most dedicated canyoneering laynards are attached via a rapide. I certainly attach mine with a rapide.

Just in the last week I've heard two separate (climbing) groups advocating tying in their laynards/safety tethers through both separate tie-in points and not their belay loops; and have observed many many people using this setup. Their rationale for this seemed bogus to me, and I've always attached daisies/laynards/cowstails with a girth hitch directly to the belay loop.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

[Brian in SLC]

Just in the last week I've heard two separate (climbing) groups advocating tying in their laynards/safety tethers through both separate tie-in points and not their belay loops; and have observed many many people using this setup. Their rationale for this seemed bogus to me, and I've always attached daisies/laynards/cowstails with a girth hitch directly to the belay loop.

What was/is their rationale?

I think its still fairly fresh in climbers' minds that a fairly famous and very experienced climber died in Yosemite a couple years ago when his belay loop failed due in part to having a long time girth hitch on it (and wearing at the same point).

I usually girth hitch any sling or anchor webbing through my harness and not the belay loop, mostly, to keep the belay loop uncluttered.

I think most lanyard makers, at least Sterling and Metolius, advocate girth hitching to the harness not on the belay loop.

[ratagonia]

I've been thinking about the pros and cons of attaching a laynard or cowstail to one's belay loop versus attaching it through both the waist and leg loop tie-in points.

To keep the thread headed in the right direction: 1.) modern canyoneering harnesses often have a single tie-in point which makes this is moot discussion, and 2.) most dedicated canyoneering laynards are attached via a rapide. I certainly attach mine with a rapide.

Just in the last week I've heard two separate (climbing) groups advocating tying in their laynards/safety tethers through both separate tie-in points and not their belay loops; and have observed many many people using this setup. Their rationale for this seemed bogus to me, and I've always attached daisies/laynards/cowstails with a girth hitch directly to the belay loop.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

As Brian said, climbers are leery of using the belay loop, sometimes for good reasons, sometimes not. There is a lot of mythology involved in techniques that swirl through the climbing community.

I don't agree with point 2, but, styles vary from group to group.

I put mine on my belay loop, girth hitched. Have not had a problem with it.

The distance between the leg loop cross strap and the tie-in point on the waist belt tends to be dynamic - as we walk, climb and rappel this distance changes by about 6". Partly this depends on how you fit in the harness. If you cinch this closed with a tether device, you defeat this dynamic adjustment, and the harness will likely be less comfortable to walk in.

I could not find instructions for use on either the Metolius or Sterling websites - that detail is just not there.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

I usually girth hitch any sling or anchor webbing through my harness and not the belay loop, mostly, to keep the belay loop uncluttered.

x2

I like my belay loop uncluttered.

[denaliguide]

i am a leg and waist loop girther.