Ever have your belay device flip on ya?

[Deathcricket]

So I was watching videos from this weekend. And I just noticed on one of the raps through Pine Creek my belay device flipped around without my knowledge. So granted I would not be able to increase my friction on the fly like I'm used to. But is there any other dangers with this happening? Kinda freaked me out because I didn't even notice it until watching my videos 2 days later that it even happened.
:eek2:

46455

[oldno7]

Buy a harness with a horizontal tie in point for your rappel device and this won't be a problem again.

If your harness has a vertical tie in point(as I'm sure yours does), you actually have to pay attention to what your doing!!!!

So, either get smarter and pay ATTENTION, or get a new harness with a horizontal tie in.........:crazy:

[ratagonia]

Buy a harness with a horizontal tie in point for your rappel device and this won't be a problem again.

If your harness has a vertical tie in point(as I'm sure yours does), you actually have to pay attention to what your doing!!!!

So, either get smarter and pay ATTENTION, or get a new harness with a horizontal tie in.........:crazy:

As friend Kurty points out, the Pirana is meant to be used flat, but on a climbing harness, it is mis-oriented by 90 degrees, thus creating the opportunity for misadventure.

You CAN get yourself a canyoneering-style harness with a horizontal tie-in point. Me, I think climbing harnesses offer better performance and comfort for the price, and I add another link in the chain to re-orient the Pirana to flat. I've been doing this for 4 years now, and like it a lot.

The extra link CAN be a 10mm Aluminum Rapide. Or you can add a locking biner, especially to try this method out and see if you like it.

Tom

(Here's a bad picture of me using the 10mm Rapide with the Sterling ATS).

[agostinone]

My pirana was doing that to me occasionally and as oldno7 theorized, I have a climbing harness. I rig my pirana just like Tom suggested and it is great. I've got to give credit to Tom though, I didn't think of it on my own--I was looking at some of his rave photo's and his rigging caught my eye.

As for being spooked by the rotation of the pirana, it spooks me. One of the reasons I use the pirana is that I love how super easy it is to add friction and if it twists I loose that ability. But that's in the past now, works great with the rapide turning things 90 degrees.

[tcott]

I've been using one of the sterling chain reactors as an extender and the webbing is flexible enough that the device pulls straight instead of sideways. Any webbing style extension that girth hitches on to the harness would work. Just another option.

[ilipichicuma]

I just use a piece of webbing to extend my device out and it hasn't been a problem. However, I like the look of that rapide better, it looks more effective.

[qedcook]

Anyone ever seen an auto-locking carabiner undo itself with the rope? If the auto-locking carabiner is a simple twist and open one, the rope can slide from the open mouth side of the carabiner onto the locking(twisting) mechanism and can turn it, open it, then slide off!!! Scary!!! Yet another thing to triple-check before and when rappelling.

[moabmatt]

Sometimes when I do sitting starts my rap device will be oriented slightly askew, despite using a harness with a horizontal D-ring attachment point (however, I do use regular Figure 8's which tend to float around on my carabiner, unlike a Pirana).

In that photo it looks like your Pirana/carabiner was rotated to the right at least 180 degrees from desired when you rigged it. The first clue would've been when you looped the rope around the Pirana's horns that the "hooked" horn was probably on top (facing up), not on bottom. When you loaded it, it then rotated to the left 90 degrees and would go no further than your tensioned brake hand would allow it. Obviously it still worked for you. While you couldn't have easily added friction the way you normally do, as you said, you could still add friction here, and taken a step further you can correct this mid-rappel.

In this case you can take your left hand and use it to grab both the rope (below the Pirana) and your belay loop in the palm of your hand and grasp it tight right into the point where your belay loop and carabiner meet. This will give you lots of friction, enough to free up your right hand and use it to whip the rope behind your head and around to the left side. This would then allow the Pirana/carabiner to complete its leftward rotation which would put the rope in the normal orientation.

If grasping the rope and belay loop with your left hand didn't allow you to free up your right hand (which it should), then you could use your right hand (and left hand, too, if necessary) to bring the rope around the right side of the Pirana/carabiner and pull it forward and left around the back side of the Pirana and carabiner. The leftward rotating tendency of your Pirana here will help prevent the device from rotating right while you lock things off. Once locked off simply whip the rope around your head to the left and things will orient themselves normally.

[tcott]

Anyone ever seen an auto-locking carabiner undo itself with the rope? If the auto-locking carabiner is a simple twist and open one, the rope can slide from the open mouth side of the carabiner onto the locking(twisting) mechanism and can turn it, open it, then slide off!!! Scary!!! Yet another thing to triple-check before and when rappelling.
I generally try to avoid auto-lockers in canyons. They tend to clog with sand and stick.

[Deathcricket]

Sometimes when I do sitting starts my rap device will be oriented slightly askew, despite using a harness with a horizontal D-ring attachment point (however, I do use regular Figure 8's which tend to float around on my carabiner, unlike a Pirana).

In that photo it looks like your Pirana/carabiner was rotated to the right at least 180 degrees from desired when you rigged it. The first clue would've been when you looped the rope around the Pirana's horns that the "hooked" horn was probably on top (facing up), not on bottom. When you loaded it, it then rotated to the left 90 degrees and would go no further than your tensioned brake hand would allow it. Obviously it still worked for you. While you couldn't have easily added friction the way you normally do, as you said, you could still add friction here, and taken a step further you can correct this mid-rappel.

In this case you can take your left hand and use it to grab both the rope (below the Pirana) and your belay loop in the palm of your hand and grasp it tight right into the point where your belay loop and carabiner meet. This will give you lots of friction, enough to free up your right hand and use it to whip the rope behind your head and around to the left side. This would then allow the Pirana/carabiner to complete its leftward rotation which would put the rope in the normal orientation.

If grasping the rope and belay loop with your left hand didn't allow you to free up your right hand (which it should), then you could use your right hand (and left hand, too, if necessary) to bring the rope around the right side of the Pirana/carabiner and pull it forward and left around the back side of the Pirana and carabiner. The leftward rotating tendency of your Pirana here will help prevent the device from rotating right while you lock things off. Once locked off simply whip the rope around your head to the left and things will orient themselves normally.

good post! :2thumbs:

[tylerhirshfeld]

4657146570
Keep working on that pose Tom... you're getting close!:lol8:

[ratagonia]

I generally try to avoid auto-lockers in canyons. They tend to clog with sand and stick.

A agree that auto-lockers tend to get clogged.



Anyone ever seen an auto-locking carabiner undo itself with the rope? If the auto-locking carabiner is a simple twist and open one, the rope can slide from the open mouth side of the carabiner onto the locking(twisting) mechanism and can turn it, open it, then slide off!!! Scary!!! Yet another thing to triple-check before and when rappelling.


The rope running through the carabiner can also unlock a screwgate carabiner. Keep an eye on those things, no always on your side 100%.

T :moses: