Traffic Citation

[accadacca]

I was just pulled over for running an orange turning light. This was in the turning lane on a left turn. The cop stated that the light was red before I entered the intersection. I disagree and believe it was orange.

So basically its my word against his right? Do I have a chance in court? :ne_nau:

The ticket is $92 + $50 if I want to attend traffic school = $142 plus my time :angryfire:

If I appear in court and lose then it goes on my record and I pay anyway minus the $50 traffic school cost, but plus whatever my insurance goes up.

I have a clean record with no tickets in the last 3 years...

Thoughts? :popcorn:

[DOSS]

What city were you in?

Speaking of the husband of a person who is the paralegal for a city attorney and prosecuting attorney.. you probably will not get off.. but you could probably get a deal.. ask for a plea in abeyance so that you have nothing go on your record :)

[jman]

Hey, you pulled a "utahn". That is entering a intersection literally a 1/4 of a second before it's completely red. Lol

Serious - was this at a busy intersection? Could you pull the traffic cam? Any witnesses in your car? In the end though, you gotta think of your time if fighting it is worth your time and money, etc. Good luck.

An abeyance plea is something to think about however if you're on limited time.

On a sidenote - I once successfully sued a previous landlord in St. George for failing to return my deposit of $2000 on a apartment I was renting out. The small claims judge awarded me $1200 out of the $2000. Then the company thought that was blasphemous that a college student won, so they appealed the decision. We went back 3months later and the judge there defaulted the case and I won the $2000 plus 3yrs of interest on it. I went back and forth from St. George to Kaysville multiple times and for sure, the money in the end wasn't worth my time - however the end result of being harassed by the company and the appellate judge awarding me extra was very sweet.

[uintahiker]

I can't remember if the law is written that you need to be completely in the intersection, or have a presence in the intersection to have the obligation to continue through. I do hate it how when a light turns red the 1st person in the turn lane goes- followed by 1-2 more people who had no business going.

I have a couple thoughts. Maybe Scott could get on here and give us some real lawyering advice. Here's my non-lawyer thoughts.

1. Bring it to court. 50/50 odds are the cop won't show up anyway and they'll throw it out.
2. Go for the plea in abeyance or whatever it is. They'll cut you a deal if you show you have a clean record and want to keep it that way. Then you just pay the fine and agree to not have any more violations for 6 months and you're off the hook. I'm not sure if this means show up to court or not.
3. Either way, you're gonna pay. Pay the fine & (appear to) do it gladly so they're more inclined to not stick it to your record.

[Iceaxe]

Last time I checked... Utah law states that you can not ENTER the intersection on a red light. If you entered while it was yellow you are golden.

I always fight this shit.... the cops and city NEVER want to go through the time and expense of a trial so at the very least they will offer you a break somewhere along the way. But to actually win you will probably need something extra... a witness, the traffic camera footage, a picture, ect....

I've won a lot of these tickets.... once because the cop failed to appear...

The city will usually try and bully you into excepting some type of arbitration.... but you have a right to a trial so I always keep pushing in that direction... the worst that can happen is you have to pay the ticket in full... which is where you are at right now....

If I'm guily I just go pay the damn fine....

FWIW: Your insurance (at least mine) lets you carry ONE ticket on your record without raising rates. You have to stay clean for 2 years or your rates will go up.

Good luck... a ticket is a PITA even if you walk away cleanly in the end.

:cool2:

[accadacca]

There are no witnesses besides me and the cop. It was in South Jordan and the cops are ruthless... I was the only guy in the turning lane and tried to make it. I had my mountain bike on my rack on the back...profiling!!!!

A reduced fine without it going on my record would be a better outcome. I live down the street from the court, but it would still be a PITA...

Where could I get the traffic light footage? It was on redwood road and 10400 south. I bet they have cameras.

I just figured he would give me a warning...nope. :flipa:

[Iceaxe]

Where could I get the traffic light footage? It was on redwood road and 10400 south. I bet they have cameras.

I'd start here.... http://commuterlink.utah.gov/

Before you head down this road.... are you positive you entered the intersection before the light turned red? Where was the cop sitting? could he actually clearly see you and the light together? If he didn't have a clear view you would probably win. Take a minute and write down EVERYTHING you remember. Time of day, where you were, where the cop was, what you said, what the cop said, yada, yada.... the cop has already done this in his notes. The more information you have the better your chances. Take a picture from where the cop was sitting, the light, and a car in the same position you were in.... if the cops view is obstructed at all you will probably win.....

If you just walk into court and say "I didn't do it...." you will lose... every dumbass at The Point already tried using that one in court..... ANYTHING you can provide that might cast doubt on the cops view is in your favor because right now its just he said, she said.... Information and facts baby!

:cool2:

[moab mark]

I've won a lot of these tickets.... once because the cop failed to appear...


:cool2:

I have a lot of Layton's finest that hang out in one of my conv. stores. I asked them what your chances were. According to them your best hope is what Shane listed above, either court is on their day off or some emergency makes it so they cannot make it to court. Other then that your only hope they said was a traffic camera. Other wise your screwed, when it comes down to you vs them they always win. Let us know how it goes.

[trackrunner]

I was just pulled over for running an orange turning light. This was in the turning lane on a left turn. The cop stated that the light was red before I entered the intersection. I disagree and believe it was orange.

Thoughts? :popcorn:

you could request a copy of the dash cam and see if you made it before it turned red.

now you wrote orange light. where did you see this orange light? I've only experienced an orange light in the intersection between when it turns from yellow to red.

[homerj]

Happened to a friend. He took it to court and lost....

[Iceaxe]

Happened to a friend. He took it to court and lost....

Unfortuneately..... Winning and losing in court really has little to do with guilty or innocence..... it has much more to do with preparation and money.

The police officer will be well prepared, he does this every day, its part of his job, he knows what he is doing.... you on the other hand might fight a couple tickets in your entire life and are at an extreme disadvantage.... unless you want to hire a good attorny that does this every day and he will probably get you off.....

[accadacca]

unless you want to hire a good attorny that does this every day and he will probably get you off.....
Maybe there is a discount for Bogley members with Scott Card :lol8:

[gnwatts]

I have demanded a jury trial several times for these things.
If it is your word against a cop you will loose, IMO. Unless you can prove the cop lied about something else in the report, even then it will be hard. Delay the trial for as long as you can.
Your normal shithead juror will side with the cop (cops never lie!).

[Scott Card]

Maybe there is a discount for Bogley members with Scott Card :lol8: My experience tells me to charge double for Bogley members.:haha: Actually, I have handled several tickets for clients. The typical client is either a truck driver or some rich dude with a fleet. One ticket for these two types of clients can be huge.

Unfortunately even with a substantial friends and family discount, the attorney fee exceeds the fine. Shane is right, these are won almost never unless the officer doesn't show up. I usually negotiate a plea in abeyance as was suggested but most prosecutors still request the full fine amount. I look at tickets as a cost of driving. Think about all the driving mistakes you make each day and all the tickets you probably deserve. I know it is annoying to get busted and financially a pain but if you can keep it off your record that is a good thing. I know that when it is a close call on who is right it is a particular pain in the neck. Problem is that police have an advantage in court and despite the presumption of innocence, well, your not presumed innocent unless you have good proof. Your chances are not 50/50 since you enter the court with a distinct disadvantage in credibility and experience. PM me if you need some advice. I will say I don't know the prosecutors very well in that city. It is helpful for you to speak with an attorney that has a good relationship with the prosecutors to get the best deal. Also, you won't get a jury trial due to the fact that there is no jail time at issue. Good prosecutors know the tricks to avoid a jury.

[Iceaxe]

I have demanded a jury trial several times for these things.

If I'm innocent.... I'd acutally ask for a trail by judge, because a judge knows the law much better than Joe Six-pack.

[gnwatts]

If I'm innocent.... I'd acutally ask for a trail by judge, because a judge knows the law much better than Joe Six-pack.

"Joe Six-pack shit-head" sounds better and is more accurate.

Fight THE MAN. :afro: (me in the 70's).

[jman]

Also, you won't get a jury trial due to the fact that there is no jail time at issue. Good prosecutors know the tricks to avoid a jury.

Hmm never knew that's the reason why. Thanks for the enlightenment.

[nelsonccc]

No big issue, at least in nevada. I've had numerous speeding tickets, reckless endangerment, and reckless driving charges (I owned a GSXR750 and went too fast too often). All of the tickets were reduced to parking tickets. I would show up on the court date, tell them I was fighting it, they then will offer a plea agreement where you admit fault to a parking ticket. The parking tickets were still expensive but they don't get reported to the insurance so I saved money overall. My understanding was that it costs them more to have the cop show up and prove it than it is to just change it to a parking ticket.

Good luck. Also any of the speeding ticket lawyers will charge $100 to do this for you as well (at least here they do).

[Felicia]

I look at tickets as a cost of driving. Think about all the driving mistakes you make each day and all the tickets you probably deserve. I know it is annoying to get busted and financially a pain but if you can keep it off your record that is a good thing.

I agree with Scott. In California, this ticket is about $580.00. You are getting off cheap.

ps: If you don't pay on time here in CA, they tack on an additional $300.00 civil assessment fee.

[Reedus]

One of the many reasons why i would never live in that god forsaken state....

[dmMatrix]

The last time this happened to my wife they said that entering the intersection on an orange is still not legal. They said if the light turns orange and you aren't already in the intersection then you will get a ticket. I believe that is complete horse shite. When I was younger and having to go through traffic school for excess speeding tickets they told me that you could enter an orange if you are already at the speed of making the turn, especially when there are no competing vehicles.

I still don't understand the whole deal but we ended up paying about $100 bucks.

As far as the traffic school goes, I understand that most companies won't raise your premiums if go to traffic school.... so maybe its worth it?? thats a rough one.

[homerj]

One of the many reasons why i would never live in that god forsaken state....

x2

[ratagonia]

The last time this happened to my wife they said that entering the intersection on an orange is still not legal. They said if the light turns orange and you aren't already in the intersection then you will get a ticket. I believe that is complete horse shite. When I was younger and having to go through traffic school for excess speeding tickets they told me that you could enter an orange if you are already at the speed of making the turn, especially when there are no competing vehicles.

I still don't understand the whole deal but we ended up paying about $100 bucks.

As far as the traffic school goes, I understand that most companies won't raise your premiums if go to traffic school.... so maybe its worth it?? thats a rough one.

Orange? What is this traffic light that ORANGE does turn?

No traffic lights in my town, thank you!

Tom :moses:

[dmMatrix]

Orange? What is this traffic light that ORANGE does turn?

No traffic lights in my town, thank you!

Tom :moses:

LOL, Yeah.

They are, in fact, Yellow. However... yellow and orange are next to each other in my color list and one shade towards orange is referred to as an orange by the company that I am contracted. Its more orange or less orange.... never yellow :stud: but, my mistake :hail2thechief:

[accadacca]

From the online traffic school... :popcorn: Yep, I paid up... :cry1:
Don't speed in construction zones. :eek2:

46567

[jman]

From the online traffic school... :popcorn: Yep, I paid up... :cry1:
Don't speed in construction zones. :eek2:

46567

I'm an idiot here - but for some reason I can't figure out the columns out on the chart? I get the horizontal.

[Scott Card]

The chart IS the incentive to go fast. If I go 50 miles driving at 98 mph in a 65 mph zone and you are going the speed limit, I will get there (50 miles from here) 15.5 minutes before you. I Win! :lol8:

I think that is what that means. It really is to tell you that you don't really save that much time speeding, I think any way.

[jman]

The chart IS the incentive to go fast. If I go 50 miles driving at 98 mph in a 65 mph zone and you are going the speed limit, I will get there (50 miles from here) 15.5 minutes before you. I Win! :lol8:

I think that is what that means. It really is to tell you that you don't really save that much time speeding, I think any way.

Thanks ya! Now I see the light...

[Felicia]

That's an informative chart.