Imlay Canyon, July 1, 2011

[ratagonia]

Did Imlay sneak route yesterday with Julie from Australia, Anna and Phil from
ZAC/Springdale, and Shaun Trackrunner from... Salt Lake?

Still a grunt climbing those hills. 5 am start worked well.

My main point is that the anchors are in piss-poor shape. We replaced only two,
and there are 4-5 more that need to be re-rigged. If going in, bring plenty of
webbing, please.

The anchor for the second-to-last rappel blew out. There were some giant
Ponderosa logs in there that are gone gone gone. My two bolts on the left are
still there, and the aluminum hangers are still there, but the webbing was
pulled from the hangers - without breaking, leaving a slit in the hangers. Wow!
Some fools have been rappelling off of the old bolts on the floor - also WOW!
Those things are J I n G u S ! ! !

We rigged a long sling back to a log back aways, using the last of our available
webbing, just long enough.

The canyon was full full full, and there were only two pothole escapes. Water
was clean and not all that cold. Some Log Soup near the beginning.

Near the end of the first narrows, the stump in the V has been eroded down a
lot, but the water level is still 5 feet below it. We used a toss to a guided
rappel.

The gaper pothole right near the end was fairly full of water, with a remnant of
a stump in the exit. I went in and tried to climb out, but though I could reach
the holds, I could not pull the moves -- solved by Phil tossing a tied-off
ropebag over the stump. I tied off the big log in the next pothole to set up a
guided rappel (since the penultimate anchor as unusable).

Tried floating out the Narrows, but the water was really low. Floated a lot,
bumped a lot of rocks, couple of good faceshots... Seemed a lot like the last time I floated Imlay at 90 cfs.

Tom

[spinesnaper]

:2thumbs:

[tylerhirshfeld]

Thanks for the report Tom! Sounds like fun!

[Scott Card]

Love that canyon, just not the sneak route. Thanks for the update.

[CarpeyBiggs]

p h o t o s puh-leaze. :ne_nau:

[zion6566]

We ran Imlay on Monday the 4th. We entered on the West Sneak. You must have used the East sneak since it looked like we were the first through the West this year. We cleared out a lot of small logs on the climb down to Imlay. The tree used as an anchor for the webbing to assist with the downclimb is getting suspicious. It still holds for the direction of pull, but not much else. We used our downclimbing skills and tried not to weight it that much. A big guy may want to bring 15' of webbing and rig it to the next anchor above.

The first (and usual) log soup wasn't bad at all, as well as the additional slot before the East entrance, and I thought we were in for an easy time, but then the next three long swims were tough! The log soup was thick and the swims felt incredibly long. Dragging the backpacks through the soup was the toughest part. The December rains changed the top portion of the (sneak entrance) canyon considerably.

Most of the potholes had water two to three feet below the lips. I felt the canyon was not the milk run it was last August and September. Nothing too difficult with partner assists. I wouldn't go in the canyon without someone agile (or climbing aids). The canyon took considerably longer for us than expected (especially important when you promise the boss at home that you'll be home in plenty of time to catch the Station Casino fireworks....but thats another story) We started hiking at 5 a.m. also, last year we were at the cars by 3 p.m...this year 7.

We went underneath the stump in the V (feet first and sideways), we used partner assists to get us out of the last keeper on the 3rd to last rappel.

We found a fresh campfire on the 3rd to last rappel. I guess someone on the July 3rd must have stayed the night. (Also had a note on the car to call Zion dispatch about overdue canyoneers). Good thing there were no big rains from the system that went through Sunday night because there was no high ground there.

The setup on the second to last rapell was interesting. I can't believe the webbing held and the hangers are what broke! The webbing rigged from the log was in the water (pothole) with a hanger attached to the two D rings on the end. I'm guessing you rigged the webbing to the lower of the lower bolts, and it must have broke while someone was on the rappel. The broken bolt looked like it was being held by only 1/16th of an inch of metal. That must have been fun for someone when that thing let go:scared:!! Good thing your new webbing was there as a backup. I didn't even want to rerig your webbing to the one bolt that is left , so we backed up your webbing with another piece so there was some redundancy for the rappel. (By the way, that log moves if you stand on the far end).
I was happy to see the bomber chains on the anchors for the last rappel.

Bottom line: A terrific canyon as usual, but it took us more time this year...as said earlier, bring webbing, you will want two 20' piecesto re-rig the second to last rappel if the water weakens what is there now (I don't like big rappels off of one strand).

[spinesnaper]

Zion 5666

Nice TR-this warrants its own thread.:rock:

Ken

[trackrunner]

p h o t o s puh-leaze. :ne_nau:

I did not bring a camera. I know Tom wanted to move fast and I didn't want to keep placing/removing from my keg. Julie did bring a waterproof camera and snapped some good pictures. I'll ask for permission when she finally has a chance to download.


We ran Imlay on Monday the 4th. We entered on the West Sneak. You must have used the East sneak

we used right (eastern) sneak


The setup on the second to last rapell was interesting. I can't believe the webbing held and the hangers are what broke! The webbing rigged from the log was in the water (pothole) with a hanger attached to the two D rings on the end. I'm guessing you rigged the webbing to the lower of the lower bolts, and it must have broke while someone was on the rappel.

no we did not use the lower bolts. we removed the webbing from that unsafe anchor and placed it around the big log with some extra webbing to help with the pull.


(By the way, that log moves if you stand on the far end).

yes it does. IMHO it should be treated as a marginal anchor rappelling skills.

[ratagonia]

We ran Imlay on Monday the 4th. We entered on the West Sneak. You must have used the East sneak since it looked like we were the first through the West this year. We cleared out a lot of small logs on the climb down to Imlay. The tree used as an anchor for the webbing to assist with the downclimb is getting suspicious. It still holds for the direction of pull, but not much else. We used our downclimbing skills and tried not to weight it that much. A big guy may want to bring 15' of webbing and rig it to the next anchor above.


Having done it several times, i think just rapping from the top is probably the best way to manage the West Sneak route.



The setup on the second to last rappel was interesting. I can't believe the webbing held and the hangers are what broke! The webbing rigged from the log was in the water (pothole) with a hanger attached to the two D rings on the end. I'm guessing you rigged the webbing to the lower of the lower bolts, and it must have broke while someone was on the rappel. The broken bolt looked like it was being held by only 1/16th of an inch of metal. That must have been fun for someone when that thing let go:scared:!! Good thing your new webbing was there as a backup. I didn't even want to rerig your webbing to the one bolt that is left , so we backed up your webbing with another piece so there was some redundancy for the rappel. (By the way, that log moves if you stand on the far end).
I was happy to see the bomber chains on the anchors for the last rappel.

Bottom line: A terrific canyon as usual, but it took us more time this year...as said earlier, bring webbing, you will want two 20' piecesto re-rig the second to last rappel if the water weakens what is there now (I don't like big rappels off of one strand).

Interesting. Yes, I seem to remember linking one of the bolts into the webbing system because it was right there, and I thought it might hold it into a better position. I had no illusion the bolt had any strength. I don't believe the rappel weighted the bolt much, except as part of the stretch, so I doubt the popping of the bolt filled anyone's trousers. Some people had rappelled off those two bolts recently (foolish, scary).

You speak some ideas about webbing and anchors that I find a little odd.

- does water weaken webbing? Eventually nylon might mildew, but in general it is not effected much by water. The webbing had only been there a day or two. Plenty of the anchors in Imlay that we used are nylon webbing that has been there, wet and dry, for years. Water does make the nylon webbing stretch a lot more.

- "some redundancy" - I can't complain too much about your choices to keep your party safe, but let me quote that famous canyoneer Ralph Waldo Emerson - "A foolish redundancy is the hobgoblin of small-imagination canyoneers".

The forces you put on the anchor rappelling are around 600 lbs at most. The single-strand 11/16" tubular webbing, tied in a knot, is worth about 1500 lbs. Why do you need to add more webbing?

Adding more webbing to a system does not make it safer. If you don't trust the webbing that is there, then remove it and replace with new webbing. If you don't know how to tie knots or rig anchors, then adding new webbing will not add to your safety (learning how to tie knots and rig anchors would add to your safety). In general, you would be served by acquiring an understanding of what makes systems safe or unsafe, rather than applying simplistic rules, such as that every anchor should have two pieces of webbing on it... :facepalm1: :angryfire:

OK, off soapbox...

Yes, the log moves. What's your point? If you did not trust it as an anchor, there were other things to use in the area.

Tom

[Jaxx]

We got out of the drainage a few hundred yards before the crossroad then follow down the steep slickrock down into the canyon. Maybe that is the way to go now?

We didn't light any fires when we went through on the 3rd. We did hear people behind us as we were starting the log soupyness. Maybe they just got cold and needed a break to warm up and didn't stay the night. Guessing is fun!

We lassoed a little stick on the third to last rap/keeper to get out of that one.

I wasn't too worried about the log at the second to last rap. It is huge. The webbing does stretch quite a bit.

[zion6566]

Interesting. Yes,

Let me clarify a little. I found it interesting that the webbing ripped the aluminum hangers. I had no problem with the rigging of the current webbing except as explained below.

Adding more webbing to a system does not make it safer. If you don't trust the webbing that is there, then remove it and replace with new webbing. If you don't know how to tie knots or rig anchors, then adding new webbing will not add to your safety (learning how to tie knots and rig anchors would add to your safety). In general, you would be served by acquiring an understanding of what makes systems safe or unsafe, rather than applying simplistic rules, such as that every anchor should have two pieces of webbing on it... :facepalm1: :angryfire:

I don't agree with you here. The bottom line is that situations like this come down to risk management. In my business (where lives are on the line and from my scout training) we like redundancy. A single strand of stretchy webbing on a 60 foot rappel...wwweeellllll...it may be good, maybe not. I felt the consequences from that setup was not worth the risk of a single strand rapel, so I backed it up. Maybe I don't understand webbing as well as I should, but I feel that backing up one piece with two is OK (the knots are sound also). What I don't agree with (and don't do) is go beyond that and create a webbing spiderweb. (I have cleaned up several of those).

Alright, I'm off my soapbox. Bottom line: Imlay is a great canyon! Well deserving of the name of a great product line.

Ken

[trackrunner]

p h o t o s puh-leaze. :ne_nau:

Julie tried to post a link but is so new she didn't have enough posts. She sent me this link and hopefully she'll chime in and get enough of a post count to post the rest of her TR and her favorite pics.

Trolls Treat Imlay photos (http://imageevent.com/jburton/zionnationalpark/imlaycanyonjuly2011;jsessionid=upgfmr3qi1.camel_s)

here are some of my favorites
log soup
http://photos.imageevent.com/jburton/zionnationalpark/imlaycanyonjuly2011/websize/P7020157.JPG
more soup
http://photos.imageevent.com/jburton/zionnationalpark/imlaycanyonjuly2011/websize/P7020168.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/jburton/zionnationalpark/imlaycanyonjuly2011/websize/P7020177.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/jburton/zionnationalpark/imlaycanyonjuly2011/websize/P7020199.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/jburton/zionnationalpark/imlaycanyonjuly2011/websize/P7020205.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/jburton/zionnationalpark/imlaycanyonjuly2011/websize/P7020250.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/jburton/zionnationalpark/imlaycanyonjuly2011/websize/P7020282.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/jburton/zionnationalpark/imlaycanyonjuly2011/websize/P7020289.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/jburton/zionnationalpark/imlaycanyonjuly2011/websize/P7020291.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/jburton/zionnationalpark/imlaycanyonjuly2011/websize/P7020292.JPG

[spinesnaper]

:hail2thechief::hail2thechief:Very nice photos. :2thumbs:

[Brian in SLC]

I found it interesting that the webbing ripped the aluminum hangers.

So, what's the skinny on this, did the webbing shear through an aluminum hanger, or, where the hangers purposely damaged by someone who didn't agree with them?

Aluminum hanger, ie, a Petzl Coudee or a purple Kong? What color?

I quit using those hangers...but...I dimly recall shoring up an anchor or two in Imlay with something...have to check the notes...

Great photos!

[OzGirl]

Thank you for taking me through. Ace canyon!

Julie

[OzGirl]

Thanks for posting my link Shaun, trying to rack up enough posts so I can post the report of my whole trip.

Julie

[ratagonia]

So, what's the skinny on this, did the webbing shear through an aluminum hanger, or, where the hangers purposely damaged by someone who didn't agree with them?

Aluminum hanger, ie, a Petzl Coudee or a purple Kong? What color?

I quit using those hangers...but...I dimly recall shoring up an anchor or two in Imlay with something...have to check the notes...

Great photos!

Petzl Coudees, originally painted Honda Civic Tan.

Unlikely to be human action, unless someone brought bolt cutters into the canyon.

Yup, quite a few of them Pika mini-hangers in Imlay.

T

[Brian in SLC]

Petzl Coudees, originally painted Honda Civic Tan.
Yup, quite a few of them Pika mini-hangers in Imlay.

Ahh, your paint job...ha ha. And, I seem to dimly recall, you drilled the hole out to make them fit a 10mm/3/8" bolt? Or I did? Can't remember.

Pika ones are steel. Not a bad design, just a skosh on the thin side.

Be nice to buff out the fixed anchors in that canyon. Some fatty stainless glue ins would be sweet. Add in some stainless rapides and rings to match.

Crazy that flood damage ripped those hangers up. Didn't Bo think they were sabotaged??

Couple of motivated fellers with the right tools would fix that canyon up nicely. Hmm...

[xxnitsuaxx]

I'll be heading through Imlay next Friday. I don't have much experience fixing up anchors but if someone wants to give me helpful instructions for cleaning them up (specific anchors, techniques, etc.) I'd be happy to do it.

[ratagonia]

Ahh, your paint job...ha ha. And, I seem to dimly recall, you drilled the hole out to make them fit a 10mm/3/8" bolt? Or I did? Can't remember.

Pika ones are steel. Not a bad design, just a skosh on the thin side.

Be nice to buff out the fixed anchors in that canyon. Some fatty stainless glue ins would be sweet. Add in some stainless rapides and rings to match.

Crazy that flood damage ripped those hangers up. Didn't Bo think they were sabotaged??

Couple of motivated fellers with the right tools would fix that canyon up nicely. Hmm...

Yup, drilled the holes out to fit the 3/8" bolt found in a half-inch bolt... (interesting technical obfuscation there, eh?)

"Be nice to buff out the fixed anchors in Imlay." About half of them, at this point, are from you and me, compadre. Yup, always more work available on that category. But really, Euro-style equipage would not be appreciated. Stainless hardware not required in Zion, Galvanized seems to work fine. Steel might be a better choice, for hangers than Aluminium, however.

Buzz Burrell stated he thought they were sabotaged. Buzz Burrell is very, very fast. Buzz Burrell is a great guy, very entertaining. Buzz Burrell is also very lucky (the totally jingus bolts on the floor there did not break on him when he rappelled - they broke a few days later, when they were not the primary anchor). Buzz Burrell does not know how to rig an anchor (the two bolts on the floor were rigged with a "Minnesota Clip", so that if EITHER of the bolts failed, the anchor would fail. This is a Rigging FAIL). In this category of "thoughts", I do not hold Buzz's opinion in high regard.

Buzz is not Bo.

Tom :moses:

[spinesnaper]

Tom

Speaking of gear, looking at Julie's pix of your recent tour through Imlay, I noticed a shiny red toy hanging from your harness in one of the photos. I 've attached a close up. That looks like a red anodized titanium Scarab. Is that correct? Wondering how you liked the device, how did it work for the long drop?

Ken

[ratagonia]

Very observant, Oh Snapper of Spines. But it is a Sterling ATS!

Tom

[spinesnaper]

Apologies, here I thought you were sneaking in the most exotic of gear.:haha:

Ken

[Brian in SLC]

But really, Euro-style equipage would not be appreciated. Stainless hardware not required in Zion, Galvanized seems to work fine. Steel might be a better choice, for hangers than Aluminium, however.

I think "Euro-style" anchors would be very much appreciated! Poll? Ha ha. You really like your anchors junky? With miles of webbing? Uck.

Interesting that zinc plated stuff does ok in Zion. But, nice stainless anchors located in optimum positions would be sweeter.

Look how nice the stuff in the Oak Creek area is. Holding up well. Looks great. Low profile.

Having seen several aluminum hangers that have busted...yeah...not a fan of them. Metolius stainless is almost as light, and, so much stronger.

Buzz is the man (!).