A little "Boot" on your Subway?

[canyonsrcool]

From the permit website

"Upper Left Fork (Das Boot) Information:
Be prepared for cold water swims. Wetsuits highly recommended. Subway permit required for downstream travel." Underline added by me.

So, my reward for doing the technical stuff is having to get ANOTHER permit for Subway?? Two permits needed if I'm going to hike out the rest of the same drainage? Ouch. :eek2:

Has it always been like this?

[Iceaxe]

RANT ON

I always just pick up a Subway permit and use the alternate entrance (Das Boot). It's not like there is an officially approved entrance you have to use to do the Subway. I've never picked up a Das Boot (or Russell Gulch) permit and never will.....

The problem with Das Boot is folks started asking for that permit by name and the rangers comply by adding Das Boot to the permit list.

Canyoneers have no one to blame but themselves for getting Das Boot added to the permit list. Das Boot is just a fancy name for a slight variation to The Subway. There is actually no such canyon named Das Boot.... Das Boot is a story (http://climb-utah.com/Zion/boot2.htm), not a canyon!

Solution.... don't be a dumbass.... be careful what permit you ask for. Use commonsense when picking up permits for a variation of a common trade route.

RANT OFF

:soapbox:

[Scott Card]

I haven't yet turned my rant off on this permit. Stupid, stupid, stupid permit. :angryfire:

[canyonsrcool]

RANT ON

I always just pick up a Subway permit and use the alternate entrance (Das Boot). It's not like there is an officially approved entrance you have to use to do the Subway. I've never picked up a Das Boot (or Russell Gulch) permit and never will.....

I guess that solves it right there. . . . :nod:

[MarmotOnARock]

Wow. That is crazy. I've never done Das Boot, but it seems crazy to have two permits. When we did Subway from Top down, we just had one permit. IMHO doing das boot is just an alternate route for the top down route, so it should have one permit, in theory. But nothing ever works that way.

[Deathcricket]

So could you "theoretically" get busted for getting a permit for Subway and heading down the Das Boot variant by "accident"? I mean "navigational errors" do occur and all. Hadn't thought of this.

[Wasatch]

Das Boot is a waste of time anyways, more like Das Hike.

[Iceaxe]

Das Boot is a waste of time anyways, more like Das Hike.

Das Boot is awesome.... or maybe you are just doing it wrong.... :ne_nau:

[ilipichicuma]

Das Boot is awesome.... or maybe you are just doing it wrong.... :ne_nau:

x2

Das Boot is the shizzle.

[Wasatch]

I'd rather do Behunin.

[ghawk]

x2

Das Boot is the shizzle.
shizzle X3

[spinesnaper]

:popcorn::popcorn:

[canyonguru]

SHIZZLE X QUAZIZZLE :rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock:

[shaggy125]

Ya, Wasatch must have been having a bad day when he did it. Das boot without the Subway would suck balls, but Das Boot with the Subway is the shizzle, and a wet full Left Fork including the Subway is on my top ten list. The reason for the separate permit is people were asking if they could just do Das Boot and then hike out if all the top down subway permits were taken, so it makes sense in that situation to have a separate permit. This of course would be a waste of a day and you should find a much more worthy canyon to do and save Das Boot for when you can get a Subway permit.

[Wasatch]

We did it on a Memorial Day weekend back in 2007. The water was colder than the Subway, but no big deal. I could see, if the water was alot higher/colder it would be quite different, but it was not. We downclimbed everything except the log. Instead of jumping into the pool with the log in it, we rapped off a bush, which was a little dicy start. It took us (5 in the group) about 30 mins. top. The Subway was more fun, but again nothing special. The hang/jump off the arch was pretty cool. To me Zion, is a place of no interest anymore. Paying to do canyons, paying to get into the Park, finding a campsite, does not interest me anymore. Have Fun!

[dmMatrix]

To me Zion, is a place of no interest anymore. Paying to do canyons, paying to get into the Park, finding a campsite, does not interest me anymore. Have Fun!

It is kind of sad that Zion has become so popular around the world that it seems as though its always packed (unless you go at the right times I suppose). But, I enjoy it a lot. I just wish it was a little more "people-less" :lol8:.

Speaking of Which.... I heard a rumor last year about Angels landing getting closed.... is this true?

[2065toyota]

Paying to do canyons, paying to get into the Park, finding a campsite, does not interest me anymore. Have Fun!


and...... i will have fun doing it all

[nielse2]

I took 5 people down Das Boot last Friday and it was a blast. The entrance was a bit difficult to find but swiming in the grabbag of dead animals totally made up for it :nod:(squirls, birds, mice, lizards, a full rack of antlers, the jawbone of something or other, and some other HUGE bones....) It is significantly colder than the subway (I was in a shorty) but makes the subway worth the hike out. I was also amazed at how much the subway had changed since the last time I did it three years ago.

[wasatchghost]

Speaking of Which.... I heard a rumor last year about Angels landing getting closed.... is this true?
I heard that rumor as well. But I was down there at the end of May this year and it was open

[ratagonia]

I heard that rumor as well. But I was down there at the end of May this year and it was open

Oh my GOD that is SO Dangerous - The Park Service Should Close It!!!! Think of the CHILDREN!!!

Yes, everytime someone falls off Half Dome or Angels Landing, some "body" yells that it should be closed.

It was closed last fall - for repairs... they fixed up a couple sections of the trail.

No it is not on the list of things to close. Neither is Half Dome (though the latter requires a permit on weekends, sigh...).

Tom

[jman]

everytime someone falls off Half Dome or Angels Landing, some "body" yells that it should be closed.


good one Tom! I laughed at the clever quip. hehe

[spinesnaper]

Oh my GOD that is SO Dangerous - The Park Service Should Close It!!!! Think of the CHILDREN!!!

Yes, everytime someone falls off Half Dome or Angels Landing, some "body" yells that it should be closed.

It was closed last fall - for repairs... they fixed up a couple sections of the trail.

No it is not on the list of things to close. Neither is Half Dome (though the latter requires a permit on weekends, sigh...).

Tom

Tom

Are you some kinda closet Darwinian? I am trying to reconcile this position with your insistence on helmets in canyons. Of course that could be enlightened self-interest: Fewer head injuries = fewer rescues = less regulations and restrictions.

Ken

[ratagonia]

Tom

Are you some kinda closet Darwinian? I am trying to reconcile this position with your insistence on helmets in canyons. Of course that could be enlightened self-interest: Fewer head injuries = fewer rescues = less regulations and restrictions.

Ken

Closet? No closet here. Check this out: http://tinyurl.com/bababrinkman

Whatever do you mean?

It is not the Park Service's job to protect us from having adventures in the wild natural terrain of the National Parks.

From a Darwinian perspective, the few who insist their head is hard enough already might be selected out. But, us humans have short-circuited the whole survival of the fittest concept - almost everybody reproduces regardless of fitness.

T :moses:

[spinesnaper]

Closet? No closet here. Check this out: http://tinyurl.com/bababrinkman

Whatever do you mean?

It is not the Park Service's job to protect us from having adventures in the wild natural terrain of the National Parks.

From a Darwinian perspective, the few who insist their head is hard enough already might be selected out. But, us humans have short-circuited the whole survival of the fittest concept - almost everybody reproduces regardless of fitness.

T :moses:

Despite all odds, Homo canyonus evolves on the Colorado Plateau.:beer: