Choprock information

[mcweyen]

After having been in the area and explored around many non-technical canyons, I'd like to get into upper Neon and S Fork of Choprock. After reading extensively on the canyons, I have a pretty good idea of what I'm up against. The problems that I'm running into is that I do not own of of my own climbing gear and don't feel like buying it all for one trip. I can borrow much of what would be needed for the climbing side of things. As for the rest of the gear, I've been stocking up. Just bought a dry bag backpack, a medium sized dry bag, a 4/3 full wetsuit and a 2mm shorty along with 2mm socks (may buy another pair). I also have much of the emergency "possibles" bag stuff. Now I just need info. What time of year would people recommend as the best or most likely to be easier for these canyons? It seems like late summer possibly? Also, I'd like to go with someone who's done the canyon if possible. Do groups ever form on this forum? My climbing friends have been far too wishy-washy on committing to doing this trip. Also, what level of upclimbing is there in this canyon, 5.?? approx? Sometimes I read that there is no upclimbing in this canyon and sometimes I read that there is one section. Side note, I am in very good physical condition and extremely eager to get through these canyons!!

[CarpeyBiggs]

What time of year would people recommend as the best or most likely to be easier for these canyons? It seems like late summer possibly?
usually late april-late may, or mid-september to early october. though people certainly do them much more often than that. neon especially.


Do groups ever form on this forum?
absolutely. there was just a big group that gathered in zion. usually not too hard to find partners. however, it's usually recommended to stick around and participate on the forums so people can kinda figure out who and what you are about. for instance, have you ever done a technical canyon before?


Also, what level of upclimbing is there in this canyon, 5.?? approx?
it varies considerably. in neon, it can be very easy, or there can be a fairly difficult keeper pothole. but these aren't "climbing" moves that can be rated. they are canyoneering obstacles, and they can be fairly straightforward, or very dangerous, depending on your skill level. if the water is high in choprock, the upclimb is something like an offwidth flared out at the bottom, narrow above your head bizarre move. usually requires someone strong enough to stem out using just their arms until they can get high enough to get their feet on the walls too. it's another step up in difficulty from neon.

[ratagonia]

After having been in the area and explored around many non-technical canyons, I'd like to get into upper Neon and S Fork of Choprock. After reading extensively on the canyons, I have a pretty good idea of what I'm up against. The problems that I'm running into is that I do not own of of my own climbing gear and don't feel like buying it all for one trip. I can borrow much of what would be needed for the climbing side of things. As for the rest of the gear, I've been stocking up. Just bought a dry bag backpack, a medium sized dry bag, a 4/3 full wetsuit and a 2mm shorty along with 2mm socks (may buy another pair). I also have much of the emergency "possibles" bag stuff. Now I just need info. What time of year would people recommend as the best or most likely to be easier for these canyons? It seems like late summer possibly? Also, I'd like to go with someone who's done the canyon if possible. Do groups ever form on this forum? My climbing friends have been far too wishy-washy on committing to doing this trip. Also, what level of upclimbing is there in this canyon, 5.?? approx? Sometimes I read that there is no upclimbing in this canyon and sometimes I read that there is one section. Side note, I am in very good physical condition and extremely eager to get through these canyons!!

You are missing an important attribute for completing Choprock - experience in technical canyons.

It is difficult to talk about the difficulty of the canyon to one who has not experienced a difficult technical canyon, or one who has not even experienced much in the way of technical canyons. We recently had some fellas show up who did a very good job of one of the most-difficult climby-type canyons as their first canyon (Sandthrax); yet became substantially cold-challenged in a beginner canyon because they lacked any understanding of this sport called canyoneering, and the variety of problems canyons can throw at you.

The two fellows who perished in Choprock were missing an important attribute for completing Choprock - experience in technical canyons.

Having the right gear would put you ahead of those two unfortunate individuals. But not far ahead.

I hope you have read this: http://climb-utah.com/Escalante/chop1.htm and this: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/esca/chop.php

So...

Welcome to the world of canyoneering. People are friendly here. Hook up with some people here or elsewhere and find out how it is done. In a year or two, you will be perhaps ready for a challenging canyon such as Choprock aka Kaleidoscope.

Tom :moses:

[mcweyen]

I've never done a technical canyon as I live too far away to get a chance at them. Have done a small amount of rock climbing. I got the feel for stemming and chimneying when in some of the canyons earlier this year (I did Zebra, Tunnel Slot, lower part of Neon, some of Ringtail to what appeared to be a possible keeper and I was alone at that point so I didn't test it, Brimstone to the too narrow for humans section, Spooky and Peek-a-boo).
I'd like to avoid high water in Choprock, which I gather may make Neon's keeper much harder. Would August be a lot more likely time to have low water in Choprock? I don't want to take vacation time only to be denied by bad weather.

[mcweyen]

I've done extensive reading on the canyon and think that I could make it through with the right group. Good timing would help substantially as well. Low water is an important part of what I'm aiming for. Sandthrax is soooooo far beyond what I'd dream of doing. As for temperature based issues, I've read that a 4/3 full with a 2mm shorty in late summer would be good to go for sure. Safety is key, I agree completely.

[spinesnaper]

I've done extensive reading on the canyon and think that I could make it through with the right group. Good timing would help substantially as well. Low water is an important part of what I'm aiming for. Sandthrax is soooooo far beyond what I'd dream of doing. As for temperature based issues, I've read that a 4/3 full with a 2mm shorty in late summer would be good to go for sure. Safety is key, I agree completely.

I don't think anyone is saying you can't do it. It just that no one here is going to encourage you to go for it. It is one thing to be bold and its another thing to be foolish. Unfortunately these canyons are unforgiving in unpredictable ways. Cold, dehydration, lack of technique all conspire against the unprepared. Tom is politely suggesting that you would benefit from more experience based on your questions. Those canyons are going to be there for a very long time. We are here because we love being in these canyons. None of us are interested in reading about someone getting in over their head in a canyon. Poke around on these sites and carefully read about canyoneers who got into trouble. Shane' website climb-utah.com, Tom's website:http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/index.htm, as well as this one has enough cautionary tales. Bottom line is be safe and consider partnering up with some experienced canyoneers before taking on the R rated canyons.

Ken

[ratagonia]

I've done extensive reading on the canyon and think that I could make it through with the right group. Good timing would help substantially as well. Low water is an important part of what I'm aiming for. Sandthrax is soooooo far beyond what I'd dream of doing. As for temperature based issues, I've read that a 4/3 full with a 2mm shorty in late summer would be good to go for sure. Safety is key, I agree completely.

I have read Road & Track for several years now, and watched carefully as my Dad has driven me to soccer games the last couple years. I do really well on all the driving video games, beating my friends by a large margin. I'd like to compete in the Indy 500 - do you think I am ready?

No really, I already have a Nomex suit, the local pizza place will sponsor me, so yeah, I think I'm ready. Don't you?

I don't need to get pole position, I'll be happy to just finish in the money. I sent in my application, but I had to fudge a few things a bit - all for a good cause. Now I just need to round up 500k for a car...

:facepalm1: "no".

Tom :moses:

ps. you didn't mention a helmet... you would always score points with me if you mention the helmet... 'jes sayin' :crazy:

[CarpeyBiggs]

I've done extensive reading on the canyon and think that I could make it through with the right group. Good timing would help substantially as well. Low water is an important part of what I'm aiming for. Sandthrax is soooooo far beyond what I'd dream of doing. As for temperature based issues, I've read that a 4/3 full with a 2mm shorty in late summer would be good to go for sure. Safety is key, I agree completely.

i'm not sure there's a whole lot of folks who would be jumping at the opportunity to "take you" through choprock as your first technical canyon, no offense. maybe it would be no big deal. maybe it wouldn't. there are lots of great canyons that you could hook up with people that are much less committing and much less "dangerous" where you could figure out what your cold tolerance is, and what you can handle in basic canyoneering situations. the black hole, for one, would be a great place to start. and if you wanted to meet some folks and do the black hole, your odds of finding partners would go much higher...

[mcweyen]

Black Hole does look pretty awesome! I'd be willing to make a trip of Black Hole and then Neon to start things out. I'm still pretty confident that with a couple/few experienced canyoneers, I could make it through Choprock readily in non-extreme conditions (would rather not test extreme).

As for the helmet, it's unquestionably on my list before I head down. So are some 5.10's and some neoprene gloves.

To the tune of experience with conditions, I'm an outdoorsy nut. I've raced road bikes for years (even against Lance), backpacked a lot, some spelunking, kayaking, rafting, skiing, and the list goes on and on, but none of that completely prepares a guy for a new sport (technical canyoneering).

So far this forum has really impressed me!! You guys clearly get to have a lot of rad adventures!

And, humorously... my brother-in-law used to actually be a Nascar driver :mrgreen:

[Brian in SLC]

And, humorously... my brother-in-law used to actually be a Nascar driver :mrgreen:

I think Shane just spotted...

[Iceaxe]

I think Shane just spotted...

:lol8:

I have raced a lot of different vehicules.... but I never raced NASCAR taxi-cabs. :haha:

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[ratagonia]

Black Hole does look pretty awesome! I'd be willing to make a trip of Black Hole and then Neon to start things out. I'm still pretty confident that with a couple/few experienced canyoneers, I could make it through Choprock readily in non-extreme conditions (would rather not test extreme).

As for the helmet, it's unquestionably on my list before I head down. So are some 5.10's and some neoprene gloves.

To the tune of experience with conditions, I'm an outdoorsy nut. I've raced road bikes for years (even against Lance), backpacked a lot, some spelunking, kayaking, rafting, skiing, and the list goes on and on, but none of that completely prepares a guy for a new sport (technical canyoneering).

So far this forum has really impressed me!! You guys clearly get to have a lot of rad adventures!

And, humorously... my brother-in-law used to actually be a Nascar driver :mrgreen:

Neoprene gloves are not so popular because they work very poorly when rappelling. As in dangerous-poorly.

Atlas gardening gloves work very well, though they are not particularly long-lasting.

http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?productid=16282&cat=0&page=1

Good to hear you would acquiesce to doing two easy canyons before proceeding to a difficult canyon. Sporting of you... :facepalm1:

Tom :moses:

[Iceaxe]

I'm still pretty confident that with a couple/few experienced canyoneers, I could make it through Choprock

I have no doubt with the right partners you would make it through Choprock.... but being led (guided) through a slot is a totally different animal than doing a slot.... just sayin'

Not that there is anything wrong with leading or following.... just apples and oranges.

[mcweyen]

I'm fine with being guided through as it's a great way to learn and my main goal is to get to see and experience the area. Leading may be an eventual goal. Looks like an addicting hobby!

[CarpeyBiggs]

I'm fine with being guided through as it's a great way to learn

clearly. what we're suggesting is that you'll have a very hard time finding anyone willing to guide you...

[ratagonia]

clearly. what we're suggesting is that you'll have a very hard time finding anyone willing to guide you...

At Zion Adventure Company we have discussed guiding Choprock, and decided no matter the abilities of the client, it is too much of a canyon to be safely guided.

Tom :moses:

[spinesnaper]

At Zion Adventure Company we have discussed guiding Choprock, and decided no matter the abilities of the client, it is too much of a canyon to be safely guided.

Tom :moses:

Yeah, can't be good for business if the client might end up as fish bait in a canyon.:nod:

Ken

[mcweyen]

Hmm, not what I was hoping to hear, oh well. Black Hole looks like a very good alternate as it's an extremely gorgeous canyon, as is Neon. Really wanting to do Choprock someday! There's a company in Escalante that guides Choprock as part of a 4 day, multiple canyon trip. Can't really dump that much $ on it though.

[Sandyfeet]

I'm still pretty confident that with a couple/few experienced canyoneers, I could make it through Choprock readily in non-extreme conditions (would rather not test extreme).


About six years back I was sitting in a really boring class and had time to write down the list of time I had done descents of canyons, I was up to 83 including do-overs of my favorites and taking many new people to learn the sport over the years , I have done between 10 and 12 every year since then. I have all the gear and then some. I am getting close and almost there to thinking I am ready to do Choprock and Baker. Just because you think you can does not mean you should. I think what people here are saying is work your way up to it..

[ratagonia]

Hmm, not what I was hoping to hear, oh well. Black Hole looks like a very good alternate as it's an extremely gorgeous canyon, as is Neon. Really wanting to do Choprock someday! There's a company in Escalante that guides Choprock as part of a 4 day, multiple canyon trip. Can't really dump that much $ on it though.

I doubt it.

"Choprock" is a canyon complex with several forks. The most interesting technical canyon is the South Fork, also known as: Moe Slot, Kaleidoscope, Choprock Slot, Chopslot, etc. The North Fork is also said to be of technical interest, but choked with Poison Ivy. Tyvek suits recommended. I have not been there. The Main Fork is non-technical in nature, and probably what someone is willing to guide.

Or provide a link and prove me wrong.

"I think what people here are saying is work your way up to it..."

In canyoneering, we have a saying: "A fool and his life are soon parted".

"Experienced Outdoorspersons" are the most dangerous of people. "Experienced Outdoorspersons" dying in canyons is bad for the sport. Please do not do this. Or have to chop your arm off. We have seen too much of this lately.

But, welcome to the sport. As stated, with some application of your abilities to learning the sport, Kaleidoscope is within your grasp in a couple of years. And the riches available in the meantime are wondrous.

Tom

[ilipichicuma]

I agree with Tom. But then, I'd have to be pretty stupid not to. :hail2thechief:

[jman]

"Experienced Outdoorspersons" are the most dangerous of people. "Experienced Outdoorspersons" dying in canyons is bad for the sport. Please do not do this. Or have to chop your arm off. We have seen too much of this lately.

Tom

Why does this sound so familiar? Did we have a discussion on this earlier (serious not sarcastic). I remember only that Tom thought these were the most dangerous people. But I forget why... Tom care to explain (or provide a link if it was discussed thoroughly)?

[mcweyen]

I emailed the people at this website http://www.excursionsofescalante.com/html/hiking.html if they guided the South Fork of Choprock and they said that they do.

[Iceaxe]

I emailed the people at this website http://www.excursionsofescalante.com/html/hiking.html if they guided the South Fork of Choprock and they said that they do.

:popcorn:

[ratagonia]

I emailed the people at this website http://www.excursionsofescalante.com/html/hiking.html if they guided the South Fork of Choprock and they said that they do.

Rick is a very good guide.

OK, you proved me wrong.

Good luck with that.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Why does this sound so familiar? Did we have a discussion on this earlier (serious not sarcastic). I remember only that Tom thought these were the most dangerous people. But I forget why... Tom care to explain (or provide a link if it was discussed thoroughly)?

C'mon Jman.

It is an observation. When people get kilt in a canyon, their friends and families say "such a surprise, because they were experienced outdoors people". And it seems like they make decisions that are obviously foolish to an experienced canyoneer. Experience riding a snowmobile does not translate well into canyoneering.

etc. Yes, it has been discussed before.

Tom :moses:

[mcweyen]

Paying to be guided just seems like it would take some of the fun out and cost more than I'm currently wanting to dump on the trip. I'd rather work up to it... or if anyone fairly experienced here got a group together and wanted to let me in, I'd be extremely stoked. Yes, I know now that is a long shot, but I'm just throwing it out there.

If anyone is interested, here's my blog about some of the adventures I go get myself into... http://mcweyen.blogspot.com

This is by far the best forum I've found on the web for canyoneering so far! Great page!

[jman]

C'mon Jman.

It is an observation. When people get kilt in a canyon, their friends and families say "such a surprise, because they were experienced outdoors people". And it seems like they make decisions that are obviously foolish to an experienced canyoneer. Experience riding a snowmobile does not translate well into canyoneering.

etc. Yes, it has been discussed before.

Tom :moses:

Oh that's right... I was thinking way to deeply and overanalyzing it and looking for a different answer. Hehe

Thanks emperor Tom

[jman]

If anyone is interested, here's my blog about some of the adventures I go get myself into... http://mcweyen.blogspot.com



On a sidenote - Just reading your blog and saw that you visited loftus hotsprings. What a cool place! Unfortunately, The FS (rumors I hear) destroyed it last month. Too bad, I really liked that hot spring!

[mcweyen]

I got word that it was rebuilt. I think it was taken apart after a large section of the overhang fell down. Very cool place indeed! So many amazing placed on this planet!

[spinesnaper]

Paying to be guided just seems like it would take some of the fun out and cost more than I'm currently wanting to dump on the trip. I'd rather work up to it... or if anyone fairly experienced here got a group together and wanted to let me in, I'd be extremely stoked. Yes, I know now that is a long shot, but I'm just throwing it out there.

If anyone is interested, here's my blog about some of the adventures I go get myself into... http://mcweyen.blogspot.com

This is by far the best forum I've found on the web for canyoneering so far! Great page!

Cost more, that is certain. Less fun-not sure about that. Is this one of those multi-day trips with Excursions of Escalante where they do a base camp and cook for you? That could be a pretty sweet time. You could learn a lot in several days of canyoneering with them and camp in style. Sounds like a pretty good time.

Ken

[wasatchghost]

I've done extensive reading on the canyon and think that I could make it through with the right group. Good timing would help substantially as well. Low water is an important part of what I'm aiming for. Sandthrax is soooooo far beyond what I'd dream of doing. As for temperature based issues, I've read that a 4/3 full with a 2mm shorty in late summer would be good to go for sure. Safety is key, I agree completely.
It may just be me, but it almost sounds like you started canyoneering just so you could do Choprock. Sure, you could get someone to guide you through, but there are so many great experiences to be had as you work your way up to that level. I hope to do crazy canyons like Choprock and Sandthrax one day, but right now I am having a great time learning to handle wimpy level-3 canyons. Canyoneering is a journey, and an enjoyable one. Personally I wouldn't want to shortcut it. But that's just me.:2thumbs:

[mcweyen]

It may just be me, but it almost sounds like you started canyoneering just so you could do Choprock.:

You're pretty much spot on. If I lived closer or made more and had more vacation days, I'd absolutely thrive on doing more canyons down there!! Choprock has got to be the most amazing canyon I've seen yet. I've dug through photos of many canyons and few if any seem to rival it. Maybe I'm wrong on this. Anyone else want to chime in with their favorites?

[zion6566]

I feel the most dangerous time for a canyoneer is right when they start feeling comfortable with it. This is true for driving and flying also. When you start feeling comfortable you typically start to take risks you previously would not have. Don't cut corners and always take the same safety precautions as you did when you were (are) a noobie.

Choprock is a great canyon to strive for. Be ready for full bridges 25 feet off the floor of the canyon. Know how to accomplish sporty downclimbs. I would recommend to bring a water filter to replenish from the springs. For all the work you are rewarded with some of the most beautiful scenery on the planet!

Good luck!

[CarpeyBiggs]

did you mention where you live?

[CarpeyBiggs]

Choprock has got to be the most amazing canyon I've seen yet. I've dug through photos of many canyons and few if any seem to rival it.

Antelope is the prettiest. :lol8:

in my humble opinion, choprock gets unusually high marks. is it really good? yes. and for quite a long time. but there are dozens of really good canyons. maybe hundreds. i think some of the choprock hype comes from the timing of the death of the BYU kids who passed in there, and the subsequent release of public beta for the canyon. so it had a reputation. the choprock of today is not the same as it once was. the "grim" section is likely nothing like it was when it got that nickname. probably the fact that it makes a great weekend trip teamed up with neon leads to lots of people doing both canyons too, so it's got a lot going for it. however, i don't think it would be hard to argue that neon, especially from higher up than the lower entries, is every bit as photogenic and beautiful as choprock. i'd have a hard time saying chop is more beautiful. they are the classics of escalante, but i think some would argue there are even prettier ones in escalante. so subjective though.

[mcweyen]

Just updated the profile. Live in Boise, ID which is around 11hrs from the canyons I explored earlier this year. If there is a group going for some entry level technical canyon, I'd be interested in gaining experience, especially if it's closer than Escalante.

I agree, Neon does look very close to as good as Choprock. There is something more mythical or epic about Choprock though. I really like the idea of "once you've started, there's no going back." While I do need the experience 1st, I agree, Neon just doesn't seem to supply that as it appears to have outs much more frequently.

[Iceaxe]

I feel the most dangerous time for a canyoneer is right when they start feeling comfortable with it.

This x2

Some of my friends refer to it as "The Teenage Years" of your canyoneering skills progression..... You know the drill.... that time I your life where you think you know everything but you really don't know crap.



Just updated the profile. Live in Boise, ID

If its just youself you can fly cheap into Vegas or SLC (Maybe Grand Junction) and than you could hook up with some local canyoneers.... I have a couple firends that fly in all the time. And by watching airfares and with a little help from my end with airport pick-ups and supplying extra gear it costs them less than our Friday night bar tab.

[spinesnaper]

This x2

Some of my friends refer to it as "The Teenage Years" of your canyoneering skills progression..... You know the drill.... that time I your life where you think you know everything but you really don't know crap.

Experienced outdoorsman = operator error

It's not like pilots who make it to retirement never made an error, it is just that they were able to smooth over the error with appropriate corrective action. To learn from one's errors, those errors have to be survivable. There is truth to the saw that the best way to get out of trouble is to stay out of trouble.

[mcweyen]

This x2
If its just youself you can fly cheap into Vegas or SLC (Maybe Grand Junction) and than you could hook up with some local canyoneers.... I have a couple firends that fly in all the time. And by watching airfares and with a little help from my end with airport pick-ups and supplying extra gear it costs them less than our Friday night bar tab.

I like the sounds of that a lot! Need to get to know some canyoneers and hear about some planned trips.... although SLC Friday night bar tabs are much more expensive than Boise Friday night bar tabs. Ha Damn 3.2

[spinesnaper]

Antelope is the prettiest. :lol8:

.

Especially when you goose up the color saturation in photoshop.

[Brian in SLC]

.... although SLC Friday night bar tabs are much more expensive than Boise Friday night bar tabs. Ha Damn 3.2

Maybe you haven't been here in awhile...last time I was at Squatters, all I had was 9% beer. At the Bayou, you'd be hard pressed to find anything on their beer menu in the 3.2 range. Or at the Beerhive. Etc etc etc...

[CarpeyBiggs]

I like the sounds of that a lot! Need to get to know some canyoneers and hear about some planned trips.... although SLC Friday night bar tabs are much more expensive than Boise Friday night bar tabs. Ha Damn 3.2

unfortunately, boise is still kinda 'tweener land. flying doesn't really save a lot of time IMO (unless going to zion). it's 4 hours to salt lake driving. barely save any time at all after dealing with airports, waiting for bags (unless you can carry on all your canyon gear), etc... there is a small crew of people in boise who sometimes come down for canyons. but it wouldn't be too hard to pick a 3 day weekend you've got and line up some partners, especially in north wash.

[River]

boise is still kinda 'tweener land

Who you callin' a tweener?

[spinesnaper]

Maybe you haven't been here in awhile...last time I was at Squatters, all I had was 9% beer. At the Bayou, you'd be hard pressed to find anything on their beer menu in the 3.2 range. Or at the Beerhive. Etc etc etc...

Someday someone will explained to me the favorable beverage improvement in Utah from what I recall years past. However no complaints on the local brews. They are a highlight of dinner at the Zion Pizza & Noodle Co when I am in Springdale.:haha:

[Brian in SLC]

Someday someone will explained to me the favorable beverage improvement in Utah from what I recall years past. However no complaints on the local brews.

According to wiki:

"A ban on 4.0% or below beer available on tap was repealed in March 2009."

I think the then gov. (JH jr) had something to do with the changes to the liquor laws. The big one was that you can pick up strong, cold beer from the source, which, spurred a huge amount of local brewing activity. You can't swing a drunk cat without hitting an Epic, Desert Edge, Squatters, UBC, Red Rock, Uinta...

We are so oppressed...ha ha.

Now, when I travel out of state, and, this seems weird and funny, but, I ask my friends if they need any Utah beer. Hilarious!

[Iceaxe]

If I remember correctly the appeal of the stupid private club membership also allowed high octane beer to be served.... still a bunch of rules for the server to understand like type of liquor license, draft or bottle, yada, yada...

I hear a lot of people bitch about Utah liquor laws, but once you understand them, Utah is actually less restrictive then a lot of other states. And if you don't believe that then think about this.... in most states its illegal to sit on the beach and drink a beer, but in most place in Utah you can sit on the beach or in the mountains and enjoy an adult beverage at your leasure.... its just that our laws are confusing to an outsider...

[spinesnaper]

Thanks for the history lesson. Not quite as liberal as Louisiana where you can legally pick up a Hurricane in a drive through. Well that is not quite the law but it's loose there.

Ken

[TKPH]

I sort of hate to try to steer the topic back to Choprock, BUT...

With regard to these wood-choked, flooded, bell-shaped slots. I can see why it's hard to climb the slimy, overhanging smooth rock, but what about climbing the wood? Depending on its strength, stability and so on of course. Even aiding it, or using a potshot thrown over the top? Is there just too little room to operate, or what?

[ratagonia]

I sort of hate to try to steer the topic back to Choprock, BUT...

With regard to these wood-choked, flooded, bell-shaped slots. I can see why it's hard to climb the slimy, overhanging smooth rock, but what about climbing the wood? Depending on its strength, stability and so on of course. Even aiding it, or using a potshot thrown over the top? Is there just too little room to operate, or what?

Where the wood is jammed is smaller than you are. so you back up 20 feet to where you can fit by moving upward. Now the walls are kinda far apart, slimy, downslanting etc. Not to say that there might not be useful wood to climb with, but there also might not be.

Tom

[TKPH]

Ah, OK. It's that tight. Should be interesting! I'll keep an eye on conditions.

I just had another idea. What about using BigBros (climbing gear) to aid with/stand on?

[ratagonia]

Ah, OK. It's that tight. Should be interesting! I'll keep an eye on conditions.

I just had another idea. What about using BigBros (climbing gear) to aid with/stand on?

Might work. Good to have a relatively large bag of tricks going in there. Having at least one pretty good climber is really the key, and managing the cold well so when you get to these potential difficulties near the end, you're still hitting on plenty of cylinders.

T

[spinesnaper]

My partner and I are headed into the Egypt trail head in early May. We are building our skills for the big canyons in Zion (maybe this will be our summer for Heaps or Imlay). We will be trying out my new 300 ft C IV off Egypt II. Then down the hill to do Choprock and if time permits Neon and Ringtail. Well at least that is the plan. I have a hunch this will be a low water year so it may not be a fair test of Choprock. If anyone has beta on conditions, we are definitely interested. My partner can lead 5.10 but to sweeten our bag of tricks we're bringing along a "real rock climber." I'm supplying the ride and the beer. That's a fair exchange.:nod:

Ken

[ratagonia]

My partner and I are headed into the Egypt trail head in early May. We are building our skills for the big canyons in Zion (maybe this will be our summer for Heaps or Imlay). We will be trying out my new 300 ft C IV off Egypt II. Then down the hill to do Choprock and if time permits Neon and Ringtail. Well at least that is the plan. I have a hunch this will be a low water year so it may not be a fair test of Choprock. If anyone has beta on conditions, we are definitely interested. My partner can lead 5.10 but to sweeten our bag of tricks we're bringing along a "real rock climber." I'm supplying the ride and the beer. That's a fair exchange.:nod:

Ken

One usually does Neon first. After Choprock, Neon is... not so hot. But it makes a good warmup for Chop, and let's you get a feel for the water conditions, and for how cold it is going to be (well, except Chop will be colder). Then next morning, and early up and...

Tom :moses:

[spinesnaper]

Tom

Thanks. We will take that under submission.

Ken