Grand Canyon Backcountry Management Plan

[CarpeyBiggs]

From Rich Rudow - Comments are due tonight if anyone would like to submit.


Comments to the Grand Canyon Backcountry Management Plan (BMP) scoping
process are due by midnight tonight. This is the start of the process to update the
current plan which is now 23 years old. Technical canyoneering was unknown to
Park managers in 1988 when the current plan was written and old policies did not
consider canyoneers as a specific user group. The purpose of your comments are
to ensure policies necessary for technical canyoneering in Grand Canyon are
included in the planning process going forward. Public comment on specific
language in the BMP will be invited in future sessions. Essentially, if we
don't provide comment about what the BMP should cover, we could be excluded by
policy from doing those activities in the future.

Fortunately, we've been working with the Grand Canyon policy makers on specific
items required for technical canyoneering for several years. The Park has shown
great interest in canyoneering and has made a concerted effort to understand the
activity, its impacts, and needs in the BMP. The working relationship has been
outstanding and most Park managers already recognize technical canyoneering as a
user group. However, there are some policies that require fine tuning for us to
enjoy canyoneering in Grand Canyon. I submitted my detailed comments in the
files section of this Group as a Word document ( Backcountry Management Plan
Commets.doc ). There are a lot of details worthy of comment that have evolved
over a long period of time, but I'll boil it down to a few simple issues. I
would appreciate it if each of you would comment on these issues. There is no
need to get elaborate (as I have in the file post). It's just helpful if you
make the Park aware of the problem so it becomes part of the evolving solution -
a new BMP in 2013 where canyoneering is welcome. Here are the key items:

1 - pack rafts in Grand Canyon: The current rule is 5 miles of river travel
maximum on a backcountry permit. Five miles is insufficient to escape many
technical slots to places where you can hike back to the rim. If the five mile
rule holds, a number of stunning slots will be off limits on a technicality.
Please voice your view that the five mile rule is insufficient to allow
technical canyoneering in Grand Canyon. The rule instead needs to be tied to a
physical place where hiking exits are possible, not an arbitrary distance or
river travel.

2 - Access across tribal lands: The Havasupai and the Hualapai Tribes currently
block access to large parts of Grand Canyon National Park where incredible slot
canyons are located. The slots are on Park lands, but access to park lands is
blocked by the tribes. Please voice your view that an agreement with the tribes
allowing access to our public lands is essential. Right of way must be
provided.

3 - Technical Canyoneering is an appropriate use of the resource: In your
comments, please note that you are a technical canyoneer and that you believe
you should have the right to enjoy canyoneering in Grand Canyon with a
backcountry hiking permit, and that you support a low impact canyoneering
etiquette. The vast majority of Grand Canyon (over 1 million acres) is up for
Wilderness Designation and anchoring issues are a very hot topic right now. If
we can't do low impact canyoneering, we might not be able to do canyoneering at
all. I know ... we often argue here about what techniques are really low impact
(bolts Vs natural), but the Park already has decided that bolts are inconsistent
with Wilderness. We need to temper the "no bolt" cry a bit and show that we can
adopt natural anchoring - FYI.

4 - Permit access: please note that you would like to acquire Grand Canyon
backcountry permits online!

I apologize to the group for the late notice and I really appreciate the
support. Many of you have not had a chance to experience limestone slots like
those found in Grand Canyon. Todd Martin's new guidebook is at the printer and
the beta will soon be widely available. These slots are truly stunning and they
provide quite a contrast to the slots found at other places on the Colorado
Plateau. I know that many of you will find your way there one day to see for
yourself. Help ensure you have the opportunity to do so in the near future:

Please go here and comment in the convenient online form:

http://tinyurl.com/6e8evvp


Thanks!

Rich

[ratagonia]

Even if youz guyz don't plan on canyoning in the Grand, PLEASE exercise your privilege as a citizen and comment on the plan as Rich suggests.

My opinion is that Wilderness Values are compromised in the Grand Canyon due to over-regulation.

Thanks.

Tom :moses:

[RAM]

Thanks Rich...to everyone on the board. The vast majority of you have not done
technical slots in the Grand Canyon. There is very little information out on
them. This will change soon with Todd's book and you may end up kicking yourself
for not commenting here. The wonderful adventures that await all of you, IF
access is continued, is well worth the time this evening to speak out and speak
up. Trust me!! Do it! You will thank yourself, your friends and hopefully be
thanked by our children.
Ram:nod:

[Iceaxe]

Thanks for supplying the bullet points.... my comments have been sent. :2thumbs:

Everyone please take a minute to post a couple comments, the bullet points Rich supplied and noting you are a tech canyoneer should be enough if you don't have time to wade through the riff-raff.

Thanks

[Iceaxe]

FYI: I only had about 5 minutes to crank this out but here are my comments. Feel free to use them as you see fit.


I am a technical canyoneer and my interests are the slot canyons located within the Grand Canyon. Technical Canyoneering is an appropriate use of the Grand Canyon.

Pack Rafts are currently limited to an arbitrary 5 miles maximum. Five miles is insufficient to escape many technical slot canyons to a place where you can safely hike back to the rim. If the five mile rule holds, a number of great slots will be off limits on a technicality. The five mile rule is insufficient to allow technical canyoneering in Grand Canyon. The rule instead needs to be tied to a physical place where hiking exits are possible, not an arbitrary distance or river travel.

The Havasupai and the Hualapai Tribes currently block access to large parts of Grand Canyon National Park where incredible slot canyons are located. The slots are on Park lands, but access to park lands is blocked by the tribes. An agreement with the tribes allowing access to our public lands is essential. A right-of-way must be provided.

Backcountry permits need to be available on-line.

Thanks for the opportunity to comment.

Shane Burrows
Climb Utah - Canyoneering & Mountaineering
http://Climb-Utah.com

[ratagonia]

FYI: I only had about 5 minutes to crank this out but here are my comments. Feel free to use them as you see fit.

Nice Shane, thanks.

Tom

[spinesnaper]

Perhaps not creative but here are my posted comments. Yes, Tom, I should be hauled out to the grammar woodshed.


Thank You!
Public Scoping April 2011 -- Comment Here
Your comments were successfully submitted.
June 27, 2011 09:32 PM Mountain Time

Park: Grand Canyon National Park
Project: Backcountry Management Plan
Document: Public Scoping April 2011 -- Comment Here

Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Postal Code:
Email Address:
Organization:
Keep My Info Private: Yes

Comments: Public Scoping Comments
I am a surgeon in Los Angeles and a technical canyoneer. My comments are those as an individual active in technical canyoneering on public lands.
My comments are as follows:
1. I am very concerned public park access to the canyons that feed into the Grand Canyon. Many of these canyons require technical canyoneering skills and current rules severely limit reasonable access to these side canyons. Specifically, pack rafts have become an important means of egress from these remote canyons. The current rule is arbitrary permitting 5 miles of river travel on a back country permit. This precludes safe travel down many canyons which require greater that 5 miles of water travel before reaching a point where it is possible to hike back the canyon rim. The rules need to be adapted to the actual canyon and possible routes of egress to make it feasible to travel these canyons and then exit via pack boat to a reasonable point of departure which may well be more than 5 miles of river travel. I believe that a reasonable accommodation can be make with public input based on a careful study of the geography so that an appropriate balance can be achieved to make it possible for technical canyoneers to access these remote canyons and then egress via pack boat to the nearest site for a safe hike out. This can be done without unnecessarily increasing river traffic and impacts.
2. Access across tribal lands. The Havasupai and the Hualapai tribes currently block access to large parts of the Grand Canyon. I believe that it would be appropriate for the National Park to enter into agreements with these tribes to increase park access.
3. Technical canyoneering is an appropriate use for the Grand Canyon National Park. Considering the pending wilderness status of much of the park, it is appropriate to support low impact canyoneering etiquette using natural anchoring techniques. This can be developed in conjunction with the canyoneering community.
4. Canyoneering permits should be issued as part of a system of backcountry hiking permits. To facilitate access for technical canyoneers traveling from considerable distance, an online permit system like the one that is successfully used in Zion National Park should be considered.
Respectfully Submitted,
Kenneth D. Steinsapir, M.D.



Comment ID: 490910-39899/458

[ghawk]

I was recently in Havasupai and upclimbed as far as we could without equipment and crappy shoes a narrow slot that joined the main canyon at havasu falls. I didn't realize then there were rules or anything and it appears I may have inadvertently broken some of them but the point is the canyons down there are are really cool. While we didn't get far it was awesome and a very different feel than Utah canyons. It should be awesome when that book comes out by Todd. Let's all get on board and send in our opinions so that we can have access to these amazing canyons in an awesome landscape.

[ghawk]

FYI: I only had about 5 minutes to crank this out but here are my comments. Feel free to use them as you see fit.

thanks Shane, I pretty much reworded yours. awesome opportunity to make our views known

[ststephen]

Dang, I think I missed reading this by 5 minutes! There's nothing at that link now at 11:05 PST.

[ghawk]

you could try searching for general contact information for the park and sending in an email. couldn't hurt. but the official comment section did end tonight ans 12 mountain time.

[CarpeyBiggs]

Dang, I think I missed reading this by 5 minutes! There's nothing at that link now at 11:05 PST.

yeah, my bad... this has been discussed for awhile in other groups, i don't know why i forgot to post it here on bogley before rich emailed me tonight. dammit! i'm blaming it on the brain surgery. yeah, that's it! :facepalm1:

[spinesnaper]

yeah, my bad... this has been discussed for awhile in other groups, i don't know why i forgot to post it here on bogley before rich emailed me tonight. dammit! i'm blaming it on the brain surgery. yeah, that's it! :facepalm1:

There is more than one way to screw up a photograph...I mean a public comment.:lol8:

[Scott P]

2 - Access across tribal lands: The Havasupai and the Hualapai Tribes currently
block access to large parts of Grand Canyon National Park where incredible slot
canyons are located. The slots are on Park lands, but access to park lands is
blocked by the tribes. Please voice your view that an agreement with the tribes
allowing access to our public lands is essential. Right of way must be
provided.


Does the NPS really have the authority to do this? Many NPS lands (including around Zion NP, for example) are blocked by private lands.

[CarpeyBiggs]

from what i understand, when the havasupai lands were designated in the 70s, a proper right of way was to be established for access to national park lands. that has never happened.

i'll see if i can get clarification from rich.

[CarpeyBiggs]

this is from Rich -

Congress granted the Havasupai great Thumb Mesa (and the lands above Yumtheska Mesa) in 1975. Congress specifically set the tribal border at

[Iceaxe]

I’m encouraging the NPS to structure a method for rational hiking access that protects the lands from poaching and provides some economic incentive to the tribe.

Is this what you are doing.... or is this response what you received back from your inquiry to Rich Rudrow?

[CarpeyBiggs]

oops. yes, you are correct, that is from Rich.