rope

[rmj]

What size rope is the standard for rappelling? I have some dynamic ropes that I climb with but ive been looking for a static rope for some canyons. The ropes ive found that are rappel specific are comparable to the climbing ropes in price. REI has some 8mm cord thats rated at 14kn, is this safe to rap on ?

[trackrunner]

cord is not rope

I'd say the majority of canyoneers in the US use between 8mm (not noob friendly expert rigging only) to 9mm+ to 10mm.

[manuscriptsdon'tburn]

Besides weight, any issues with using an 11mm static rope for canyoneering? REI carries the BlueWater brand static ropes in 150' lengths.

[mrbrejcha]

cord is not rope



For sure. :nono:

...dang, Im gettin good with these smiley face dooders! :cool2:


Anywho, I think a good diameter for a starter canyon rope is a 9mm. It'll last forever if you take care of it, and isn't so bulky you don't want to carry it...IMDACO

-Brejcha and Bud Light

[Iceaxe]

Besides weight, any issues with using an 11mm static rope for canyoneering? REI carries the BlueWater brand static ropes in 150' lengths.

If you are going to buy a new rope for canyoneering buy an Imlay Canyon Rope (http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/home.php?cat=23).

Lots of beniefits of buying Tom's ropes. You get a rope designed for canyoneering, You get a rope designed by a competent canyoneer that actually does the canyons. You support the local canyoneering industry. Tom will help you choose the right rope for your needs. Tom's ropes are a great value, you will not find a bigger bang for your buck.

And that's pretty much everything you need to know about canyoneering ropes. :cool2:

[rmj]

Thanks im looking into it now.

[manuscriptsdon'tburn]

If you are going to buy a new rope for canyoneering buy an Imlay Canyon Rope (http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/home.php?cat=23).

Lots of beniefits of buying Tom's ropes. You get a rope designed for canyoneering, You get a rope designed by a competent canyoneer that actually does the canyons. You support the local canyoneering industry. Tom will help you choose the right rope for your needs. Tom's ropes are a great value, you will not find a big bang for your buck.

And that's pretty much everything you need to know about canyoneering ropes. :cool2:

Thanks Mr. Axe. I certainly like to support the locals!

[ratagonia]

If you are going to buy a new rope for canyoneering buy an Imlay Canyon Rope (http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/home.php?cat=23).

Lots of benefits to buying Tom's ropes. You get a rope designed for canyoneering, You get a rope designed by a competent canyoneer that actually does the canyons. You support the local canyoneering industry. Tom will help you choose the right rope for your needs. Tom's ropes are a great value, you will not find a big bang for your buck.

And that's pretty much everything you need to know about canyoneering ropes. :cool2:

Thanks Shane.

More info here: http://www.imlaycanyongear.com/ropes.php

Tom

[Scott Card]

Agree with Shane. Tom's ropes are top notch. I know, I own several....:haha: I even use an old one to rope off on my roof to put up Christmas lights. Very handy!

[tcott]

I've really liked the Canyon C-IV rope from Sterling Rope. It's 9mm but very light weight at the same time.

[hike2kolob]

Agree with Shane. Tom's ropes are top notch. I know, I own several....:haha: I even use an old one to rope off on my roof to put up Christmas lights. Very handy!

:roflol::roflol::roflol:

I thought I was the only one who did this.

I think Tom's ropes are the only way to go. They may not be as supple as some of the Bluewater ropes, but they are durable, economical, light, and don't suck up pounds of water.

[Iceaxe]

I've really liked the Canyon C-IV rope from Sterling Rope. It's 9mm but very light weight at the same time.

$228.00 for 200' of Sterling Rope Canyon C-IV rope.
$160.00 for 200' of Imlay Canyon Fire rope.

[Iceaxe]

I think Tom's ropes are the only way to go. They may not be as supple as some of the Bluewater ropes, but they are durable, economical, light, and don't suck up pounds of water.

In the world of ropes the "supple" or feel of the rope in called "hand". And this "hand" is the crux of manufacturing and selling ropes, because a good hand in the store doesn't make for a good rope in the field. As most of you already know ropes have to be broken-in and have a much different hand after they have been used 10 or 20 times.

A lot of manufacturers actually sell inferior ropes to what they are really capable of producing just to get a nice hand in the store, because if they don't have a good hand in the store no one buys their product.

Anyhoo.... the real test you should be looking for is how does the rope feel when it is half way through its life cycle, and how durable is it, not how it feels on the store shelf or first time out.

[ratagonia]

$228.00 for 200' of Sterling Rope Canyon C-IV rope.
$160.00 for 200' of Imlay Canyon Fire rope.

If you want, Tcott, you can send me the extra $68.00 as a donation... I am very flexible on these issues.

Tom

[ratagonia]

In the world of ropes the "supple" or feel of the rope in called "hand". And this "hand" is the crux of manufacturing and selling ropes, because a good hand in the store doesn't make for a good rope in the field. As most of you already know ropes have to be broken-in and have a much different hand after they have been used 10 or 20 times.

A lot of manufacturers actually sell inferior ropes to what they are really capable of producing just to get a nice hand in the store, because if they don't have a good hand in the store no one buys their product.

Anyhoo.... the real test you should be looking for is how does the rope feel when it is half way through its life cycle, and how durable is it, not how it feels on the store shelf or first time out.

Jason (Hike2Kolob) has been out of action for awhile. The new Canyonero is a 9.2mm rope with the hand softened just slightly, as the actual 9mm was a bit too stiff. The Canyon Fire came out with a very nice hand (both new and used) though more as an artifact of the other design objectives, but I'll take it.

I think my ropes change less in hand from new to used than other brands. But then again, I think lots of things :cool2:

Tom

[Scott Card]

If you want, Tcott, you can send me the extra $68.00 as a donation... I am very flexible on these issues.

Tom
:roflol:

[nelsonccc]

I've used all sorts of ropes. I used to use my old climbing ropes, then my old haul lines, then Imlay ropes, and now I use the Bluewater Canyon ropes. I've found that the 9.2 canyon is absolutely bomber. I've had it for several seasons now and it still looks and feels new. Whereas my Imlay ropes tended to really fuzz-up and degrade after a couple of seasons. I still however have several Imlay ropes that still get used and they are all over 5 years old it's just that I find myself steadily reaching for the Canyon rope for most canyons now, but maybe that's because it's orange!

[ghawk]

I've got a few friends who've gotten the bluewaters on sale recently and they do look and feel very nice. My Imlay ropes have fuzzed a bit but that doesn't seem to have affected performance much. They have held up well over the last 2-3 years. I think the price issue is the major point for me. The bluewaters cost more without noticeable difference in quality and unexpected frays and core shots would hurt the wallet a bit more. my two cents anyway :mrgreen:

[hank moon]

fuzz happens - my first Imlay 8mm rope is still in use 6 years after purchase (albeit a bit shorter). It fuzzed up pretty quickly, reached the fuzz plateau, and its dirty white self just keeps on going.

warm and fuzzily,

hank

[tcott]

If you want, Tcott, you can send me the extra $68.00 as a donation... I am very flexible on these issues.

Tom

I went with the sterling for the lighter weight, but if the $68.00 donation would include Tom carrying the rope for me I would be fine with that too. :naughty:

[CarpeyBiggs]

curious what the weight difference is, any idea tcott? i know with the 8mm bluewater ds it is substantial, didn't think it was much on the sterling.

[tcott]

curious what the weight difference is, any idea tcott? i know with the 8mm bluewater ds it is substantial, didn't think it was much on the sterling.

for 200' of rope

bluewater ds 8.0mm - 5.51 pounds
sterling C-IV 9.0mm - 6.4 pounds
canyon fire 8.3mm - 7.7 pounds
canyonero 9.2mm - 8.4 pounds

[CarpeyBiggs]

cool, thanks tcott.

[oval]

for 200' of rope


sterling C-IV 9.0mm - 6.4 pounds


The Sheath on the Sterling is amazing! Talk about incredible endurance.

[Mojave Silence]

The C-4 also does not take on hardly any water weight, and it almost floats

[tcott]

Also found out last weekend that 200' of C-IV will float in a bagarino.

[ratagonia]

I went with the sterling for the lighter weight, but if the $68.00 donation would include Tom carrying the rope for me I would be fine with that too. :naughty:

Where you thinking of us going???

T

[dougr]

Another vote for the Canyon C-IV. 9mm, incomparable Technora sheath, and as light as the lightest 8mm ropes.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

[jpratt11]

If you want, Tcott, you can send me the extra $68.00 as a donation... I am very flexible on these issues.

Tom

:roflol:, I own one of Tom's ropes (8.3MM) and I love it. The only issue is that you'll want several more after you buy your first. I need to pick up a 200' from him. However, I'm not interested in adding $68.00 as a donation. :fitz:

[Sandyfeet]

Sort of back to the original question, I have had several ropes over the years from 8 to 10.5 and when your ropes are wet and sandy (we usually only use them a double ropes though )they tend to create heck of a lot of friction and slow way down not to mention get really heavy, so IMHO anything over a 9.5mm requires more work to get down for the lucky kids who get to go and the smurf sized people with not enough weight to go down without feeding the rope through, when we take the newbies or pint sized kids we use the 10.5. The ropes tend to get stiffer if not cleaned regularly, sorry for the rope 101 lesson.

[mtthwlw]

I've got a few friends who've gotten the bluewaters on sale recently and they do look and feel very nice. My Imlay ropes have fuzzed a bit but that doesn't seem to have affected performance much. They have held up well over the last 2-3 years. I think the price issue is the major point for me. The bluewaters cost more without noticeable difference in quality and unexpected frays and core shots would hurt the wallet a bit more. my two cents anyway :mrgreen:

I got a 200' Imlay Canyon Rope about 5 years ago and it still looks like it's in great condition. I know it's GOT to be getting to retirement time... but it looks like it's still perfect-- a little fuzz on it, but still in great condition.

Last summer I bought a 600' spool of BlueWater 9.2 Canyon Rope (it has the 5,000lb pull strength) so I could take Scouts on it (Imlay Canyonero wasn't available then). It IS soft and supple, but I can't say that it is durable like Imlay rope.

If I could have waited for a few months and purchased from Tom on that, I would be a lot happier. Oh well. In a year or so when the BleuWater rope is shot, I'll purchase some Canyonero from Tom.

Good luck with your purchase.

[Balagna]

Anyone having issues with their imlay rope? I have a 120' canyon fire rope that is about 1.5-2 years old (15-20 canyons) and is still in great shape. My wife bought me a 200' canyonero for Christmas. I have used it on three canyons and it is already showing signs of serious wear on the outer sheath. I have a few friends who are experiencing the same issue. Did we just get a bad batch or is anyone else seeing the same issue? I took it to Desert Rat and had Bo look at it. He said it is still usable, and hasn't worn through the sheath, but it still makes me nervous. I used my friends Sterling rope two weeks ago on boltergeist. He is on his second year with the Sterling and the sheath is still pristine. Might have to cut my loss with the canyonero and make the move to Sterling.

[trackrunner]

I have used it on three canyons and it is already showing signs of serious wear on the outer sheath.

explain serious wear. fuzzy sheath, starts of core shot, actual core shots, missing sheath?

[ratagonia]

Anyone having issues with their imlay rope? I have a 120' canyon fire rope that is about 1.5-2 years old (15-20 canyons) and is still in great shape. My wife bought me a 200' canyonero for Christmas. I have used it on three canyons and it is already showing signs of serious wear on the outer sheath. I have a few friends who are experiencing the same issue. Did we just get a bad batch or is anyone else seeing the same issue? I took it to Desert Rat and had Bo look at it. He said it is still usable, and hasn't worn through the sheath, but it still makes me nervous. I used my friends Sterling rope two weeks ago on boltergeist. He is on his second year with the Sterling and the sheath is still pristine. Might have to cut my loss with the canyonero and make the move to Sterling.

I am very interested in what is happening. What color is your rope?

While the warranty is that canyoneering will beat up your gear, unusual beating-up like this is not a good thing, and I want to know about it, and figure out what the problem is. Would you return it to me in exchange for a new rope? If you could bring it into the Desert Rat, I'll be passing through on Feb 22nd (or so) and could pick it up there. I will ask Bo to give you a new rope in exchange.

Tom

[tley430]

I'm curious as to what you mean by serious wear? Can you post a picture of the rope by chance? I have 200' of canyonero that is starting to get a little bit of a fuzzy sheath. I've been told that's to be expected.

[Balagna]

Wow, these are quick responses. Thanks for the concern Tom. I appreciate that you stand behind your product. It is the blueish green 9mm canyonero. I will snap a picture and put it up tonight. The most significant wear is about 40' feet from the end is about 6" of serious fuzz. You can feel it through a leather glove and it makes your heart skip a beat. It looks like someone was swinging and letting the rope rub. I am very careful to avoid unnecessary horizontal movement on a rappel and ask others I am with to do the same. Like I said, Bo told me the rope is still good (and I trust him completely) but I wanted to see if others beside my circle of canyon friends have experienced the same.

[trackrunner]

if bo said it was good then why is it a problem?

[SRG]

"cord is not rope

I'd say the majority of canyoneers in the US use between 8mm (not noob friendly expert rigging only) to 9mm+ to 10mm."

- What are the differences btwn rope n chord?
- What are the dangers of canyoneering with chord, or the advantages of rope?
- Other than reduced friction while rappelling, why is the 8mm rope not noob friendly?

Gracias

On a side tangent, how come every time I type "canyoneer" into Bogley, the spell check thinks it's not a real word? Yes, I meant to type "canyoneer", and no I'm not interested in buying a pair of 5.10 Canners. :haha:

-Sam

[Iceaxe]

why is the 8mm rope not noob friendly?

The short answer is.... the thicker the rope the more tolerant it is of mistakes.



On a side tangent, how come every time I type "canyoneer" into Bogley, the spell check thinks it's not a real word?

As for "canyoneer" not in the spell check just hit the ADD button next time it asks you. Bogley spell checker comes with a generic dictionary.

[Exergy]

At the risk of being mocked, I chose the BlueWater Canyon Rope because the orange looks awesome in photos. Pick a diameter you feel comfortable rappelling on and carrying.

[spinesnaper]

At the risk of being mocked, I chose the BlueWater Canyon Rope because the orange looks awesome in photos. Pick a diameter you feel comfortable rappelling on and carrying.

:haha::haha::haha: I actually think appearance was the reason I bought my very first 11mm climbing rope-Mammut I think, basically orange but basically psychedelic with a whole bunch of colors woven in-looked real good.

Ken

[ratagonia]

"cord is not rope

I'd say the majority of canyoneers in the US use between 8mm (not noob friendly expert rigging only) to 9mm+ to 10mm."

- What are the differences btwn rope n chord?
- What are the dangers of canyoneering with chord, or the advantages of rope?
- Other than reduced friction while rappelling, why is the 8mm rope not noob friendly?

Gracias

On a side tangent, how come every time I type "canyoneer" into Bogley, the spell check thinks it's not a real word? Yes, I meant to type "canyoneer", and no I'm not interested in buying a pair of 5.10 Canners. :haha:

-Sam

"Chord" is a musical expression, referring to notes played at the same time that make a harmony, of some sort.

"Cord" is a round textile product, generally for utility use and not for human-life-safety applications. Parachute Cord is stuff invented for WWII and used for parachutes, now used for all sorts of things. Accessory Cord is used in climbing for many applications, some including one's life-safety, but it is not rope.

"Rope" is a round textile product made to perform in a certain manner when used in a specific application. So a "Lead-Climbing Rope" has carefully engineered stretch and energy absorption properties that make the whole lead-climbing thing work. A static climbing, caving or rappelling rope has a different set of properties that make it NOT safe to lead-climb with, but do make it safe to rappel on, and rope-climb on (or, as safe as any of these activities can be).

While "Accessory Cord" is available in rope-like diameters, A-Cord is designed around a couple of parameters: A. Look pretty; B. be of a certain strength; C. be of a certain physical size. The other important attributes are the stretchiness and the toughness, and when you buy A-Cord, you really have no idea what those attributes are. But, they are unlikely to be the desired attributes for rappelling / canyoneering. :cool2:

Of course, as usual, I found this out the hard way. I bought a 300' spool of Beal 8mm accessory cord when I worked at Black Diamond, and that "rope" went on exactly two trips. I used it for the last rap in Heaps (nearly perished!) and a few weeks later, Shane used it on the last rap in Heaps, and nearly perished. Since it has hung in my car port and is used for lashing firewood to the top of my station wagon, and other tasks it is suitable for. It was very, VERY stretchy! :facepalm1:

Smaller ropes are fine for people that know what they are doing, but for people who don't, a larger diameter rope provides a greater likelihood that the clueless ones will not end up in a heap at the bottom of the rappel. In addition, smaller ropes present less surface area to contact the rock and therefore get chewed up easier; noobs tend to thrash around on rappel and are not careful with their choices, so noobs tend to chew up ropes faster too. This combo means smaller ropes in the hands of noobs are likely to become unusable pretty quick.

Noobs is also not in the default dictionary. Each Bogley user has their own dictionary, so it is up to you to add words like noob and canyoneer. :naughty:

Tom

[SRG]

Thanks

[deagol]

I would add something to Tom's explanation that doesn't really seem to have anything to do with the "noob" factor (but I could be doing something wrong): I use a Totem & large locking carabiner to ascend in plaquette mode. Using this set-up with the 8.3 MM rope results in the ascending rig to slide down the rope slowly when weighted- this is a bad thing and very unnerving. Using the thicker 9 MM rope seems to prevent this from happening. At first I wondered if the Totem or carabiner had worn away enough to allow this slip, but I don’t think it has.

[Branin]

I would add something to Tom's explanation that doesn't really seem to have anything to do with the "noob" factor (but I could be doing something wrong): I use a Totem & large locking carabiner to ascend in plaquette mode. Using this set-up with the 8.3 MM rope results in the ascending rig to slide down the rope slowly when weighted- this is a bad thing and very unnerving. Using the thicker 9 MM rope seems to prevent this from happening. At first I wondered if the Totem or carabiner had worn away enough to allow this slip, but I don’t think it has.
Many commercial ascenders also don't play especially well with thin ropes. Just the nature of the beast.