Birch Hollow wet and wild

[Deathcricket]

Hey all,

Haven't posted a TR for a while, been tossing everything on Facebook lately for some reason, sorry to neglect you guys. So we did Birch Hollow last Sun 5/15. It was epic! It was my lovely wife's 1st time canyoneering and we also took Deep's 8 year old son Leif for his 1st canyon. So it took quite a bit longer than usual. Flow was a bit high in narrows still so we took the orderville exit out the top. And we took a "shortcut" down the entrance of Englestead but got a little lost and had to bushwhack in the beginning. So considering that we started at 10:00AM and got done around 7:30PM, I would call that a good day.

I highly recommend doing Birch with flow, it adds another dimension to the fun and makes everything a bigger blast. Waterfalls are gorgeous. Also a very interesting change to the top of Orderville, there is a huge mudslide and I don't even recognize it anymore. The grass and trees are all moved into different places but still growing fine apparently. I put these vids in another thread discussing camera angles, so you might have already seen them. Still trying to get my GoPro dialed in. And yeah, I know the first vid is hilarious. I set my friction wayyyyy to high and it's a pitiful rap with horrid style, lol. But I was first person down with no belayer, wet conditions, and a huge 100 foot rap, erred on the side of caution and got screwed, lol.

For the 8 year old junior canyoneer, we ended up at first just tieing him in and then belaying him from the bottom, but it was taking too long so we ended up leashing him 4 feet behind his dad and he would walk down behind him. Kinda like a longer style pack hang but it worked flawlessly. He was frightened by a couple of the 75-100 footers, but recovered quick and did awesome on the smaller runs. I wish I did stuff like that when I was his age. Good times were had by all!
:nod:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfqT4zRN4KA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5svQdxR1iqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xBiqo2Bgi8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze_xVKFwVvs

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[Sombeech]

Cool! Good to see Deeps again.

[jman]

edit: whoops, should of watched the second video before I posted. Guess I answered my own question. lol

[uintahiker]

:2thumbs:

[oldno7]

Much easier and safer ways to rappel with a kid, but if you know your friction settings very well, no problem.

Looks like you guys had a fun trip...

[Deathcricket]

Much easier and safer ways to rappel with a kid, but if you know your friction settings very well, no problem.

Looks like you guys had a fun trip...

Oh if ya got any suggestions or pics. We puzzled over this for a while. Always open to suggestions. :2thumbs:

[trackrunner]

Much easier and safer ways to rappel with a kid, but if you know your friction settings very well, no problem.

Looks like you guys had a fun trip...


Oh if ya got any suggestions or pics. We puzzled over this for a while. Always open to suggestions. :2thumbs:

I'd assume Kurt & I may be thinking of a tandem rappel. The below link discusses the tandem rappels. The pic is bad quality read the descriptions about one leash being shorter than the other. You'll need to dial the friction especially SRT. If two adults you may need to use two rappel devices with the second on on the guides harness.

http://www.acmgguides.com/absolutefm/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=7
Tandem Rappels

Clip the client to a short leash with a locking carabiner (or attach the sling to the harness with a girth hitch).

[ratagonia]

I'd assume Kurt & I may be thinking of a tandem rappel. The pic is bad quality read the descriptions about one leash being shorter than the other. You'll need to dial the friction especially SRT. If two adults you may need to use two rappel devices with the second on on the guides harness.

http://www.acmgguides.com/absolutefm/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=7
Tandem Rappels

Clip the client to a short leash with a locking carabiner (or attach the sling to the harness with a girth hitch).
• The Guide clips to a long leash (or attach the leash to the harness with a girth hitch). Adjust this length as necessary, but short enough so the rappel device can be reached.
• Set up a rappel device on the rope and use the locking carabiner of the rappel system as a master carabiner.
• Clip the leashes from the client and Guide to the master carabiner on the rappel device.
• The Guide sets up a backup (example, personal prussik) below the rappel device.
• Guide and client descend together with the Guide controlling the rappel.

http://www.acmgguides.com/assets/tech_manl_drw/tandem_rap.gif

Yeah, works pretty well. With practice, you can tease out a couple of fine points:

A. set the passive person (guest) up on the non-dominant-hand side of the active person (guide).

B. position of the two people depends more on weight than anything else. If the rappel is mostly free, might want to offset three feet up and down, but generally it is best to put the heavier person lower. With equal weight, it might be best to go equal length, hip to hip. With a child, I place the child just above me so they can sit on my hip (so I can put an arm around them if needed).

C. best if you can avoid using a backup (autoblock) as your second hand might be busy working with the guest. An attentive bottom belay can serve as a backup.

D. knowing your rappel device is very helpful. What is the friction setting for 280 lbs, single line Canyon Pro, wet rope, well worn in??? Another reason a bottom belay is essential, because you will be guessing at the friction setting.

Practice makes perfect. Useful with kids, and in rescue situations.

Tom

[scubabryan]

Feels bad for the person wearing the denim jeans...

[accadacca]

Cool report cricket of deth. :cool2:

[derekholmes]

awesome pictures! Love this hike but still debating if it looks like more fun or less fun with water ;)
The junior canyoneer is da man!

2009 Trip: http://trailtip.com/Member/DerekHolmes/Trails/Birch-Hallow-_Zions-National-Park/07-11-2009/chid/19/Gallery.aspx

[plutacratic77]

Good stuff! Have had my eye on a GoPro for a while now. Looks like you stayed warmer than some friends of mine who went down Burch a few weeks ago, who really froze their butts off.

[ratagonia]

Another alternative - a side-by-side rappel.

[Deathcricket]

Great pic! Maybe with a little more practice we can move up to that stage. That's off a stone knot you showed us in Englestead right? But he wasn't comfortable with handling the belay device yet so getting him to control his speed might have been problematic. Something where he is permanently attached to his dad (like was shown before) would be better for now. but who knows next trip, little guy is a pro and kids advance fast now-a-days.
:2thumbs:

[backofbeyond]

I've used a SPELEGYCA with friends practicing rescues before, I bet it would work great with kids.

[moab mark]

I have spent alot of time tandem rappeling with young kids. As Tom stated the easiest way I have found is to extend your device on a 3' leash have the child on a slightly shorter leash. Have them rest on your off hand hip as you go down. When you get the friction dialed in and get comfortable let them reach over use their hand as the brake hand with you backing them up under your hip. This lets them start to get the concept of braking. I would definitely set this rope up releasable. We were rappeling off of Uranium Arch one day and the rappel device got pinned against the arch due to the extension and the adult could not move. It is hard to solve problems with a small kid in your lap. I had to lower them a foot to get them past the problem. My 10 year old handles all rappels on his own now but on really big rappels (arch rappel in ROA) he goes just like the picture that Tom posted. My wife goes right below him and then when they get going he likes to pass her and pretend he is leading the pack. Make sure you get them a small pair of gloves. Baseball gloves work well, they fit tight. Motocross industry also has some small ones.
I taught one of my kids on my stairs in my house. I used the banister and had them rappel down the stairs. It was suprising how much that helped them to walk backwards down the stairs. It let her get the feel for it in a controlled environment. Anchor to the base or your wife might have you moved out to the dog house.



Mark

[PG Rob]

My kids are 5, 7 and 9 and I have found (for us) the best option is for them to rappel themselves with a top belay.
45551
With kids that are not comfortable working a rappel device themselves, I have set up a "rappel line" that does nothing other than run straight through a carabiner or rappel device. They still act as if they are rappelling themselves, with a top belay, and after a couple of times, they are ready to move on to working a rappel device.
45552
I assume if kids were afraid to be by themselves on rappel, you would want to do a tandem, but I think most kids are brave enough and trusting enough to go themselves.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?52863-UTurn-with-young-kids

[ratagonia]

My kids are 5, 7 and 9 and I have found (for us) the best option is for them to rappel themselves with a top belay.

With kids that are not comfortable working a rappel device themselves, I have set up a "rappel line" that does nothing other than run straight through a carabiner or rappel device. They still act as if they are rappelling themselves, with a top belay, and after a couple of times, they are ready to move on to working a rappel device.

I assume if kids were afraid to be by themselves on rappel, you would want to do a tandem, but I think most kids are brave enough and trusting enough to go themselves.



Cute kids!

With Kids, it is helpful to extend the device away from them, perhaps with two additional carabiners (6"). The smaller the kid, the further away the rappel device should be from them. Kids have difficulty using their hands and arms in the awkward low location where us adults have gotten used to it.

Guiding kids, I have this nightmare vision of some small kid letting his fingers run into the device and losing a finger. Small kids, the rappel device should be beyond their reach.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Hey all,

Haven't posted a TR for a while,

I agree with you Deathcricket. Total support.

Tom :moses:

[PG Rob]

Thanks for the reminder Tom on extending the device. I used to do that with my kids (Clipster), but have gotten away from it. I should probably move back to it. BTW... the first kid (5 yr girl) is mine, the second (8 yr boy) is the neighbor kid with the rope running straight through his carabiner.