Canyoneering & GoPro Hero HD

[Iceaxe]

OK, so I'm thinking about buying a GoPro Hero HD to video my awesomeness! Any advise from those using the camera. What accessories do I need to buy right up front? Any and all comments, thoughts and suggestions appreciated.

Is this the camera I really want? Should I be looking at other cameras?

Here is what I'm thinking of using the camera for.... I'll probably video some canyoneering. A couple other ideas I thought I'd try this year are mounting it to the roll cage of a sprint car. Mounting to the rear of a 300 mph streamliner. Mounting it on a blown alcohol sprint boat and a 5 liter hydro.... the first use of the camera would be two up coming canyoneering trips I have in the works so those are the only accessories I would need right away.

Also what about video editing software? I have a copy of Cyberlink Power Director someone gave me. I looked on the web and it seems to have above average ratings. Anyone using that program? Is it a descent program?

Thanks!

http://climb-utah.com/Moab/Files/entrajo1.jpg

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=43721&d=1303944321

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=42683&d=1300729629

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=35049

And maybe we should start a death pool on how long the camera lasts? :lol8:

[oldno7]

You could also mount one on your headboard.:twisted:

[Sombeech]

If you've got Windows 7, just use Windows Live Movie Maker to produce the videos. It'll do HD. Your version of Powerdirector may not be able to produce HD if it's a few years old.

As for the camera package, you may want to look into the motorsports accessory pack. It comes with a pretty sturdy suction cup mount, plus several of the helmet mounts anyways:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002VA57XC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=bogloutdcomm-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=B002VA57XC

For the roll bar mounts, you'll want this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001MS6OM2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=bogloutdcomm-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=B001MS6OM2

[Deathcricket]

So I have the helmet hero, and I think it would rock for all your high speed sports you do. I actually took mine in birch hollow yesterday and got a couple half decent vids I guess. Honestly the hardest thing is getting the camera on the right angle. I'm at the point of putting some kind of dial on this sucker and saying on each recording "Ok 35 degrees" and then knowing 35 degrees gets your feet and awesome shots, 32 degrees just takes a pick of your junk as you are rappelling, and 37 degrees just gets the wall rushing by. It's kinda hit or miss.

I noticed it has a lot of trouble filming anything with a harsh backlight, Pretty much anytime I'm at the bottom on rappel filming above it came out like crap. This is further complicated by the need to get the angle exactly right. So sometime I wasn't even filming the subject, it was the sky or rock face above me. Now if you are standing above and filming someone rappelling in, oh man it gets a perfect beautiful picture. It's drop dead gorgeous stuff.

So my review, is that if you can nail down the correct angle each time and always have it not be too high or not to low, it will get some awesome shots. The high def is glorious. I'll have a couple videos and put them up shortly. Keep in mind I'm a total amateur and a person with photo experience might not have these kinda problems. Edit coming once I get the videos done! :cool2:

[Iceaxe]

You could also mount one on your headboard.:twisted:


:lol8: Funny you should mention that.... the first thing the hot young stripper wife told me is we will NOT be mounting the camera on the headboard.





If you've got Windows 7, just use Windows Live Movie Maker to produce the videos. It'll do HD. Your version of Powerdirector may not be able to produce HD if it's a few years old.

I don't have Windows 7. The Powerdirector is version 9 and it can do HD. In fact, in all the reviews I have read Power Director beats MS Moviemaker.

REI will have the GoPro HD Helmet Hero on sale for $239 beginning May 20th. So that is what I'm planning on right now unless someone knows a better deal.

[moab mark]

So I have the helmet hero, and I think it would rock for all your high speed sports you do. I actually took mine in birch hollow yesterday and got a couple half decent vids I guess. Honestly the hardest thing is getting the camera on the right angle. I'm honestly at the point of putting some kind of dial on this sucker and saying on each recording "Ok 35 degrees" and then knowing 35 degrees gets your feet and awesome shots, 32 degrees just takes a pick of your junk as you are rappelling. It's kinda hit or miss.

I noticed it has a lot of trouble filming anything with a harsh backlight, Pretty much anytime I'm at the bottom on rappel filming above it came out like crap. This is further complicated by the need to get the angle exactly right. So sometime I wasn't even filming the subject, it was the sky or rock face above me. Now if you are standing above and filming someone rappelling in, oh man it gets a perfect beautiful picture. It's drop dead gorgeous stuff.

So my review, is that if you can nail down the correct angle each time and always have it not be too high or not to low, it will get some awesome shots. The high def is glorious. I'll have a couple videos and put them up shortly. Keep in mind I'm a total amateur and a person with photo experience might not have these kinda problems. Edit coming once I get the videos done! :cool2:

One of my Buddies brought one to Powell last week and we had the same problem with the angle on the GOPRO. I also have the same problem on my Countor HD. The Countor seems to be a bit better by how it is mounted to the side of the helmet. He was having trouble hitting the GOPRO on the walls when he would bend over. In regards to the Countor HD the part I hate is trying to edit the video. It is very time consuming and difficult, at least for me:angryfire:. I use Power Director 9 and have also used Window Video Maker. Neither rock my boat. The extra weight on my helmet drives me crazy and the pain to edit the video keeps mine in the truck most of the time. When mounted to a motorcross helmet or your ski goggles you really can't feel it, but climbing helmets move around to easily and it feels like a brick attached to your head. In Slots no matter where you mount it it's in the way.

Just my 2 cents.


Mark

[Deathcricket]

One of my Buddies brought one to Powell last week and we had the same problem with the angle on the GOPRO. I also have the same problem on my Countor HD. The Countor seems to be a bit better by how it is mounted to the side of the helmet. He was having trouble hitting the GOPRO on the walls when he would bend over. In regards to the Countor HD the part I hate is trying to edit the video. It is very time consuming and difficult, at least for me:angryfire:. I use Power Director 9 and have also used Window Video Maker. Neither rock my boat. The extra weight on my helmet drives me crazy and the pain to edit the video keeps mine in the truck most of the time. When mounted to a motorcross helmet or your ski goggles you really can't feel it, but climbing helmets move around to easily and it feels like a brick attached to your head. In Slots no matter where you mount it it's in the way.

Just my 2 cents.


Mark

Oh I totally hear you. Although my canyoneering helmet is much better than my biking helm. It totally bugs me even though its not that heavy. As far as editing the video, I haven't noticed any problems except I have to lower the resolution immensely, otherwise it takes forever to upload a 3 gig file to youtube. It's not as pretty, but a 100mb-200mb seems to be ideal. Ok so here are the vids I shot this weekend. Had to discard 75% of them because the angle was so bad, hehe. But not bad for my first try filming. Maybe as I use it more they will get better.

This is a nice slick 75 footer, probably the best angle I got out of all my vids. And probably the best footage. Unfortunately I set my friction wayyyy to damn high and the vid is boring. But it was a wet rope and I was first guy down with no belayer so I erred on the side of caution, oh well. :haha:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfqT4zRN4KA


Here is an overhead view, then I switch it 1st person perspective on the fly and rap down. But the angle is a little off. I should mention this was my wife first time rapelling ever so she is kinda slow. I was so damn proud of her though for tackling a hard canyon right off the bat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5svQdxR1iqA

Here is one looking up. You can see it gets washed out until I get it out of the harsh backlight. Still don't have the angle perfect but it was better than most. I love the part where she is behind the water. It looks glorious in High Def but you can get the general idea from this low rez video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xBiqo2Bgi8

And then lastly, looking up with bad light and water falling on the camera. It's like a "here is the worst shot possible with this camera" type of shot. I actually think it would do better if heavy flow hit it rather than the light mist. The lens actually repels water quite nicely (you'll notice int he first vid it was perfect with heavy flow), but when its a very fine mist with sun shining down on it, not so much. Normally I would toss this vid away, but it's my wife's 1st time rapelling on a cliff, so it's near and dear to my heart hehe. But it makes a good example of bad conditions and how they look.
:lol8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze_xVKFwVvs

[Sombeech]

The BacPac might be the solution for the angle :ne_nau: I've never had a problem with the angle, I usually get it pretty close to target. But if I did, I'd probably pick this up:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M187ZI/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=bogloutdcomm-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=B004M187ZI

I think Carpey said it was nice to quickly review the footage too. Just turn it off while filming or your battery will drain.

The first impression I got from the GoPro a couple of years ago was how ugly it looked sticking way up on top of the helmet. That's why I stayed away until I saw you can mount to the FRONT of your helmet like a headlamp. This will avoid hitting low branches, rocks, or giving it such a top heavy feeling.

The usual mount position, ugly:

http://www.racerxcanada.com/images/news/new-products/2008-03-19_gopro/08-03-19_gopro-two.jpg


Then the front mount, not so obnoxious. Keep in mind this is a different clip altogether.

http://www.stuntcams.com/shop/gopro/gopro-hd-helmet-front-mount-1.jpg

And the "self shot" for maybe some 5 second transitions in your video, might be a decent rappel shot? I imagine if you point it almost straight down, harness in the frame, it would probably catch some cool views.

http://www.stuntcams.com/shop/gopro/gopro-hd-helmet-front-mount-2.jpg

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: I HATE rappel shots in canyoneering videos. Many people put in endless shots of the rappel, mostly from below, and I'm not a big fan of looking at everyones ass for 20 minutes of video. Maybe a short clip to establish the rappel/canyon, but please don't film endless rappel video if you want me to watch your video. That is one thing I enjoy about Carpey's videos. He does a good job of not overloading the video with endless rappel footage.

Next question: does the GoPro have a headband for mounting the camera like a headlamp without a helmet? Just askin', a friend wants to know. :haha:

[Sombeech]

Next question: does the GoPro have a headband for mounting the camera like a headlamp without a helmet? Just askin', a friend wants to know. :haha:

Yes, for those "special" situations

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002EF2200/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=bogloutdcomm-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=B002EF2200

[Iceaxe]

A knowledgable friend told me this:



One more thing, make sure you've got a good SD card, the higher the "class" the better the buffer is. I'm filming with a 16GB class 6 and I wouldn't go any lower. I'll get about 3-4 hours of film on it.


Heck, I had never heard of class before. I though you just went on eBay and bought the cheapest card you could find. I had never heard of "class" before but after a little research I now understand whats-up.... anyhoo... what class and size card are you guys using? How many minutes of video are you getting?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Sombeech]

Here's another setup that might work well for canyoneering. You know those rapps from the top where you can't really see the person heading down? Maybe stick the camera out on a collapseable trekking pole and shoot from there. Mount the camera to the end of the pole with a seat post mount. Or at least get some hard to reach angles otherwise. Maybe if you're straddling a crevice stick the camera way down underneath you, filming up. Lot's of quick transition clips of unorthodox angles make an otherwise boring video interesting.

Like you say, rappelling vids could be pretty boring, but you might be able to use it as a quick transition, maybe use 5-10 seconds of it or something.

44391

[Deathcricket]

FWIW: I HATE rappel shots in canyoneering videos. Many people put in endless shots of the rappel, mostly from below, and I'm not a big fan of looking at everyones ass for 20 minutes of video. Maybe a short clip to establish the rappel/canyon, but please don't film endless rappel video if you want me to watch your video. That is one thing I enjoy about Carpey's videos. He does a good job of not overloading the video with endless rappel footage.:

So an angle like this you don't enjoy much you're saying? :naughty:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iutUb7eYpjM

[Iceaxe]

Exactly.... that was a total waste of 2 minutes and 6 seconds of my life.

[Deathcricket]

Exactly.... that was a total waste of 2 minutes and 6 seconds of my life.

And here I thought I would finally get my man card back with that vid. *sigh* :lol8:

[Sombeech]

I think it might have been good if you had it pointing more vertical, watching your feet hop / walk down the wall, the rope maybe swaying down below - but for a short period of time maybe 5-10 seconds.

[Iceaxe]

Sweet.... I just walked in the door with my new GoPro HD Hero. :2thumbs:

They are on sale right now at Best Buy for $239 plus if you buy 3 accessories you get 30% off the accessories. So I picked up the camera, a memory card, the tri-pod adapter and the head board adapter (looks exactly like the ride adapter).

Anyhoo.... its all put together and charging now. Any suggestions on what settings I want to start with for canyoneering? Mountain biking?

All tips and suggestions appreciated. :nod:

[canyondevil]

Sweet.... I just walked in the door with my new GoPro HD Hero. :2thumbs:

They are on sale right now at Best Buy for $239 plus if you buy 3 accessories you get 30% off the accessories. So I picked up the camera, a memory card, the tri-pod adapter and the head board adapter (looks exactly like the ride adapter).

Anyhoo.... its all put together and charging now. Any suggestions on what settings I want to start with for canyoneering? Mountain biking?

All tips and suggestions appreciated. :nod:

I bought an extra battery and the LCD screen off the GoPro website. They were both well worth the money. The LCD screen allows you to see that you have the correct angle when on your helmet. Before I got it, I had many many videos on my dirt bike where all you could see was the ground.

[Canyonbug]

Sweet.... I just walked in the door with my new GoPro HD Hero. :2thumbs:

They are on sale right now at Best Buy for $239 plus if you buy 3 accessories you get 30% off the accessories...

So Ice, Any idea how long this sale goes on? Nothing mentioned of it on their website, but if you put it into your shopping cart it gives you the sale price.

[Canyonbug]

So Ice, Any idea how long this sale goes on? Nothing mentioned of it on their website, but if you put it into your shopping cart it gives you the sale price.

Reply to my own post...I called the store in American Fork and they don't have any in stock, but they said the sale ends Sunday.

[scubabryan]

May want to check overstocked.com, they have the 1080 hd version for $219 shipped free and no tax, at least to Nevada.

[Sombeech]

Anyhoo.... its all put together and charging now. Any suggestions on what settings I want to start with for canyoneering? Mountain biking?


I'm a huge fan of "mode 3", or r3, or the 720 60 frames per second mode. 960 mode, or r4 seems to be the most popular because of the taller vertical capture, but it's only 30 frames per second and it seems to fisheye everything a bit more.

The LCD BacPac might be good if you're just starting out. I'm pretty familiar with the angles to shoot so I usually know what I'm capturing, but on your first couple of attempts you might think you got some sweet footage and it turned out to be too distant.

A common thing with the wide angle lens is it will put your subjects farther back in the footage. So the usual distance to capture a group photo is usually going to be too far back.

An example is my ride this week, I kinda forgot this, took a self shot, and was too far away. This was only about 15' from the camera sitting on the ground too:

NOTE - this is also a still frame snagged from the video, I don't shoot pictures, I just let the video film the spot for a good 10 seconds and snag a frame while playing it in VLC media player. But for great pictures, still plan on a regular camera.

44578

[Iceaxe]

I'm sure some of you are interested in how things are going with my new GoPro Hero.... here is the skinny....

Less than 24 hours after recieving the camera I've got my first video. Sorry its not a canyoneering video but I was excited to see what this bad boy would do so I mounted it to my mountain bike and went for a spin. Considering I'm a total noob with the GoPro and a total noob with the Cyberlink Power Director 9 editing software I though it turned out OK. I really wasn't trying for anything special other than to see if I could make the camera work and get a video on youtube or a DVD. I spent about an hour learning the camera and about 2 hours learning enough about the editing software to produce what you see below.

One thing I'm learning is mounts are everything. I was told to move the camera off my handbars and onto my headframe to clean up some of the jerky motion. I can see for the different racing events I intend to video I'll want a bag full of different mounts. I'll probably also pick up a couple more helmet mounts as I can see some major advantages in being able to quicky swap the camera to the helmet of differnt canyoneering partners.

Next up a family trip through the Black Hole, followed a week later by a couple wicked canyons that have never been betaed.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLmrViE_kHg

[Felicia]

Nice! I need a new toy...hummm

[Sombeech]

Sorry its not a canyoneering video

you switching teams?

Nice vid, you'll really start to get good at it soon. You're right, mounts are everything.

Here are just a couple of my experiments with different mounts, most of which will end up being 5 second transitions between the "meat" of the trail footage;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIFCotD4OVk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CNLwlgQsUI

[Iceaxe]

you switching teams?

:lol8:

I've actually been racing my mountain bike off-n-on for the past 15 years.


44621

[oldno7]

:lol8:

I've actually been racing my mountain bike off-n-on for the past 15 years.


44621

Oh--I thought the new camera was on your mom's bike. Seemed mighty slow around the one sharp curve......:lol8:

very nice first video though.

[Iceaxe]

Oh--I thought the new camera was on your mom's bike. Seemed mighty slow around the one sharp curve......:lol8:


You don't have to go very fast to win in the over 50 class.... :crazy:

And the real reason I put a music sound track with the video was because I was breathing so dang hard it sounded like a tired dog was riding the bike.

[Sombeech]

And the real reason I put a music sound track with the video was because I was breathing so dang hard it sounded like a tired dog was riding the bike.

You've discovered my secret

[accadacca]

:lol8:

I've actually been racing my mountain bike off-n-on for the past 15 years.


44621

Oh snap! You need to come ride with us on a Tuesday Shane. :ride:

[blueshade]

After seeing you guys talk about this it got me interested again and I decided to splurge as well.
Check out this sweet deal: $240 shipped for GoPro HD Helemt Hero, plus get an extra battery for just $16

http://www.adorama.com/UWGPHDHH.html

[Iceaxe]

OK a few more details on the GoPro that a noob might like to know. A battery charge lasts about 2 to 3 hours of continues filming, which is a lot of video and fills about 8mb of memory. I bought a USB port wall and car charger for less that $5 on ebay so I can pretty much charge the camera anywhere.

Originally I thought I'd need an extra battery and maybe the LCD display, but now I doubt I'll need either. I bought two 16mb SD cards, which is more then enough. one 16mb card will last most folks a weekend. If you were doing multi-day backpack or rafting trips you might want a second battery.

My suggestion would be buy the GoPro in one of the packages (Helmet, Roll Bar, Bike) and skip the whistles and bells until you know if you really want them.

The more I play with this stuff the more important I realize your editing software is. I've tried several different programs and really like the Cyberlink Power Director. It's $50 and outperforms all the other programs I tried, most of which cost 4 times as much.

Anyhoo.... the camera worked awesome in the rap-n-swim kiddie stuff. Now I'm off to do a couple of more adult canyons this weekend so we'll see how it preforms.

[Sombeech]

The more I play with this stuff the more important I realize your editing software is. I've tried several different programs and really like the Cyberlink Power Director. It's $50 and outperforms all the other programs I tried, most of which cost 4 times as much.

Unless you have Windows 7 then I would highly recommend just downloading Windows LIVE Movie Maker for free, it's all I use. When producing the the video, just make sure you've got the 60 frames per second specified (if that's what you filmed in).

[Poot and Bernie]

I use a Contour HD and LOVE it!!! the only complaints i have are #1 it is not as waterproof as the GoPro, meaning i have to put it in a STUPID waterproof case that is hard to get it to record while inside and it also kills the audio portion of the video. this means that usually i have to go to extreme lengths to keep the camera dry and rolling without putting it in the waterproof case, i.e. my Black Hole video right when we drop into the Black Hole. i have done canyons when i thought it was rolling in the waterproof case, only to find out later when i got home that it was off, which is VERY disappointing.#2 complaint is the headband i use to wear the contour. I am sure that it is more comfortable then wearing it strapped to a helmet, but the strap from the headband gets to be a little tight after a long hard day in a canyon, usually it is the first thing to come off as soon as we are out. For me the real selling point on the Contour over the GoPro was the way it is mounted/oriented, i prefer having the small protrusion from the camera being on the side of my head as opposed to mounting an entire camera on top... As far as video quality, both cameras are the same. All of my videos have been shot with the contour, but to be honest i want to add a GoPro to my arsenal, if anything just for the really wet canyons. Although i also have to say that getting the Contour wet will not kill it, as i have done plenty, but it will shut off the camera and it might take a little work to get enough water out of it in the canyon to get it to work again. Even if i had both, i would use the Contour for everything but the wettest of canyons. Just my humble opinion, but of course to each his own...

[Poot and Bernie]

Sorry, If you want to see some of my videos, the link is:

http://JnJAdventures.com

[Sombeech]

i prefer having the small protrusion from the camera being on the side of my head as opposed to mounting an entire camera on top...


Completely agree. I think the most common mounting position for the GoPro is absolutely ridiculous and DOESN'T get the best angle anyways, which is right on the very top of the helmet. But this is why I don't mount it clear up there, I use either the Front Mount, and/or a plethora of other mounts to keep it interesting.

[Iceaxe]

Completely agree. I think the most common mounting position for the GoPro is absolutely ridiculous and DOESN'T get the best angle anyways, which is right on the very top of the helmet. But this is why I don't mount it clear up there, I use either the Front Mount, and/or a plethora of other mounts to keep it interesting.

x2

In fact I mounted my GoPro on top of a helmet and took it off about 10 seconds later, never mounted it on top again. So far my preferred position when canyoneering is to wear it like a headlamp. If you have spent much time wearing a headlamp you will never notice the difference.

We did a canyon today with a couple dozen water filled potholes of unknown depth. Not having to worry about the GoPro being waterproof when jumping or sliding in was really sweet. :2thumbs:

[Iceaxe]

Unless you have Windows 7 then I would highly recommend just downloading Windows LIVE Movie Maker for free, it's all I use.

I tried the Windows products and used them some to begin with, they are nice and they are free.... but comparing Movie Maker to Power Director is a like comparing a VW to a Corvette. Which is to be expected since Power Director has to be a lot better to entice folks to shell out $50 for the product

YMMV.

FWIW: here is a 2011 top ten video editing software review that I found informative. Best part it lets you see who has what features.
http://video-editing-software-review.toptenreviews.com/

[mcweyen]

I'm a fan of Sony Vegas now as it can output in mp4 format (original high quality format) and any resolution you choose. Also, one of my new fav mounts is to use the pivot arm (http://gopro.com/camera-mounts/grab-bag-of-mounts/) and put the rounded 3m stick mount on the back part of my helmets, i.e. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySTqBj4aAmg although I could have gotten the angle better there. No holes on the helmet would have helped with perspective too, but that's the only place I could put it.

[Deathcricket]

I'm a fan of Sony Vegas now as it can output in mp4 format (original high quality format) and any resolution you choose. Also, one of my new fav mounts is to use the pivot arm (http://gopro.com/camera-mounts/grab-bag-of-mounts/) and put the rounded 3m stick mount on the back part of my helmets, i.e. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySTqBj4aAmg although I could have gotten the angle better there. No holes on the helmet would have helped with perspective too, but that's the only place I could put it.

Cool Video! Looks like you were booking it, I see you even passed a car. What we talking 35-40mph? Maybe it was just the angle but looked hella fast. :2thumbs:

[mcweyen]

Anywhere from as low as 28~ to as high as 46~. Yeah 35 to 40 is probably the most common range though. It's a ton of fun! 17 miles of it even!

[Brian in SLC]

Just in case you need insurance...

The bit about Go Pro is funny.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDyhiq0vJGo&feature=youtu.be

[Iceaxe]

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

Sure glad I didn't buy that 3rd Go Pro....